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open24hours posted:That seems like less of an issue than the payment being devalued by inflation though. Was that a reply to me, with screwing up payments being less of an issue? While inflation gradually degrading the worth of the basic income is indeed a problem that would need to be managed, I can't see it as anywhere close to the threat of having your payments cut off entirely thanks to human error or bureaucracy, which can lead to literal deaths. In my view, any government that can't be trusted to upscale the UBI with inflation definitely can't be trusted with putting any special conditions on it.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:43
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It seems utopian to assume that a UBI wouldn't have administrative issues like every other government program, but with a change as radical as introducing a basic income I don't think it's out of the question that the bureaucracy could also be improved.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:49
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Wouldn't the UBI basically involve filling out a form with your bank details and showing ID? how much more administration is involved with that?
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Nov 20, 2016 09:14
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Les Affaires posted:Wouldn't the UBI basically involve filling out a form with your bank details and showing ID? how much more administration is involved with that? Yeah, one of the great strengths of it is that people just need to prove they exist.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:41
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https://twitter.com/joshgnosis/status/800256577601052672
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Nov 20, 2016 09:42
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Is the removal of most tax deductions generally part of UBI? Seems like there would be a pretty strong case for it if the govt is giving everyone a living wage.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:44
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I can only imagine how many millions there are for whom $12k a year would take them from living paycheque to paycheque, constantly stressing that they're barely making ends meet, to having enough space to just be able to take a breath and unlimber some of the huge weight off their shoulders. Being poor is not only stressful, it's loving exhausting. And I can image how many of those millions would vote against UBI just to hurt the poor, "dole bludgers", immigrants and Aborigines.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:51
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Periphery posted:Is the removal of most tax deductions generally part of UBI? Seems like there would be a pretty strong case for it if the govt is giving everyone a living wage. It's not an inherent part of UBI or anything, but that's definitely one way to help fund the whole thing. Might as well simplify the tax code as long as you're simplifying welfare. But realistically, I imagine each tax break and loophole would still be its own long, hard fight.
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Nov 20, 2016 10:00
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Why do refos receive a higher UBI than are pensioners?
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Nov 20, 2016 10:03
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Holy poo poo you're onto something, maybe we could convince people that refugees are already receiving basic income, before anybody else, and it's so unfair, we have to make sure it's available to all Australians!!
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Nov 20, 2016 10:06
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If you've got a Kindle, Andrew P Street's Turnbull book is only $2 for the rest of the day. Got no idea what his books are like, but his columns for the Guardian and SMH have been surprisingly bearable.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:06
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-20/bank-fire-attack-an-isolated-incident-not-politically-motivated/8040744quote:In his first comments on the incident, Mr Andrews said he had been briefed by Victoria Police and that it was important to make clear there was no political motivation or terrorism involved in the incident. Huff farts Graic.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:20
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How did Victoria end up with an actual adult in charge is a mystery. It's not like that's always been the case.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:50
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Best. State.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:54
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ewe2 posted:How did Victoria end up with an actual adult in charge is a mystery. It's not like that's always been the case. It's pretty drat refreshing to be honest, I've known children/kids whose fathers were Premier's in the past, and holy poo poo I'm happy with how things have turned out in Victoria. We still have a long loving way to go but at least Andrews is doing some good work, and doing it in a manner that isn't horse-poo poo. *for clarity I grew up being friends and or sports partners with kids of a couple different premiers, they both gave their kids no money for lunch on sport days on the weekend lol. Redcordial fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 12:04
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Tell me one of those parents was a Kennett. I still despise that man.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:15
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ewe2 posted:Tell me one of those parents was a Kennett. I still despise that man. I'm a bit younger than that, but one of them was Brumby, and he was the worst culprit at dropping his kid off at tennis and having other parents buy lunch for his own child while he was gone. Classic libs, they just constantly find new ways to not give a gently caress
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Nov 20, 2016 12:20
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Redcordial posted:I'm a bit younger than that, but one of them was Brumby, and he was the worst culprit at dropping his kid off at tennis and having other parents buy lunch for his own child while he was gone. brumby was labor unless 
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Nov 20, 2016 12:43
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Lol https://twitter.com/slackbastard/status/800267143249940480
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Nov 20, 2016 12:52
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What an omega
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Nov 20, 2016 12:56
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I love that the insult cuck has grown so big on the right. They have zero awareness that nobody but themselves cares even a little bit about being called that.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:57
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Solemn Sloth posted:brumby was labor unless Yeah my bad, got my wires crossed and these glasses of wine that I had at dinner definitely didn't help.
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Nov 20, 2016 13:26
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it's a word from the internet isn't it? I think I know what it means, but I can't see why you'd use it in that way
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Nov 20, 2016 13:32
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Fascist, self-conscious of penis size, owns self really hard. News at 11.
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Nov 20, 2016 13:36
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yeah this guy is such a normie who for some reason has a stahlhelm, which is linked to neo-nazi iconography
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Nov 20, 2016 13:42
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Looks like the physical embodiment of GBS.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:42
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starkebn posted:it's a word from the internet isn't it? I think I know what it means, but I can't see why you'd use it in that way Yeah it comes from cuckold. Basically similar to beta and white knight and other poo poo that orbits around the concept of being a man who is weak/emasculates himself. And it's about as useful when used on someone who isn't obsessed with the topic, but they don't seem to notice or care.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:02
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Nov 20, 2016 17:40
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http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-union-to-challenge-shoppies-after-massive-wages-scandal-20161119-gsszlr.html New union to challenge 'shoppies' after massive wages scandal Ben Schneiders Royce Millar The cosy, decades-long relationship between Australia's largest employers and the Labor party's biggest industrial backer, faces an audacious challenge from a new retail union committed to boosting penalty rates for hundreds of thousands of workers. The formation of the Retail and Fast Food Workers Union's (RAFFWU) is a response to a nation-wide wages scandal centred on workplace agreements by the conservative Shop, Distributive & Allied Employees Association with major employers including Coles, Woolworths and McDonald's. A 15-month Fairfax Media investigation revealed how the deals left more than 250,000 workers paid less than the award - the basic wages safety net - and saved big business more than an estimated $300 million a year. The industrial researcher who helped unearth the wages scandal, Josh Cullinan, will unveil the new national union on Monday with the help of volunteers and supporters, including disenchanted SDA members. "There's hundreds of millions of dollars being fleeced from these workers and we are sick of it," Mr Cullinan said. "The plan is for us to launch a strong successful union led by retail and fast food workers; they haven't had that for decades." A serious challenge to the SDA would likely cause major ructions in the labour movement, with 'the shoppies' a major financial backer of the ACTU and Labor, and a powerful factional force which sponsors dozens of politicians across Australia. Founded 108 years ago, the paternalistic SDA has been dominated since the early 1950s by a small Catholic cabal inspired by National Civic Council founder, Bob Santamaria. From 1976 to 2014 it was run with an iron fist by national secretary Joe de Bruyn, the man Gough Whitlam famously dubbed "a Dutchman who hates dykes". He is now national president. The SDA has played an important role in social and moral debates, slowing the progress towards same sex marriage and opposing abortion and euthanasia. But the recent wages scandal has badly damaged its reputation in the labour movement and among its members. For five years Michael Johnstone has stacked shelves and helped customers at Woolworths in Brunswick where he is also an SDA delegate. He says he was disappointed to discover his union was actively opposed to same sex marriage. That disappointment deepened when he read that SDA-negotiated agreements had left his colleagues underpaid. Mr Johnstone said he had already sounded out many workmates about joining a new union that stood up for members. "There's been a lot of positive response. They understand that no worker should be worse off under new union agreements." Mr Johnstone said the SDA leadership had for decades resisted demands for change. "It's now in the hands of the workers. They now have a choice." The building of a new national union from scratch is unheard of in the decades since the 1980s when mergers created mega unions and in an era where membership is near historic low levels. An attempt by socialist activists to set up a rival to the SDA in the 2000s failed to gain traction. Australia's unions are largely shielded from competition from that restricts them from encroaching on each other's areas of industry coverage.The SDA's response to the new union is likely to be fierce. "We understand the task of organising these workers is immense," said Mr Cullinan. "The reality is, penalty rates are under attack, half a million retail and fast food workers (on SDA deals) have already had them taken off them." The initial focus of the new union will be Coles, McDonald's and Woolworths, Australia's three largest employers. Under SDA agreements the companies pay either reduced penalty rates or, in the case of McDonald's, no weekend penalties. In a landmark decision in May, that followed Fairfax revelations, the the full bench of the Fair Work commission found a Coles agreement with the SDA failed the crucial test that workers under enterprise agreements must be "better off overall" compared to the award. Mr Cullinan (above) said that in workplaces where employees were paid less than the award the new union would demand employers immediately lift pay rates. If they refuse to do so he said he expected members to demand the agreements be terminated. The founders of the new union include Labor, Greens and socialist party members, and unaligned activists. Mr Johnstone said he did not support the new union having an affiliation to any political party. "I think that would distract us from looking after workers." Union president will be Siobhan Kelly, a barrister who led the historic case against Coles, along with Mr Cullinan and Coles trolley operator Duncan Hart. In its formative stage the union would be run by volunteers who would seek to sign thousands of financial members and use Pozible crowd-funding to raise funds for part-time organisers and offices in major cities. "We know that's a big task and it will take time to build our union," said Mr Cullinan. "But we have a sector of a million workers; half a million of them are subject to exploitative enterprise agreements." The new union won't at be first registered as a traditional union. Instead, it would register as a national organisation under the Corporations Act and as an incorporated association. Mr Cullinan said this would allow it to act as a "robust and strong" union on behalf of members including through industrial action.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:14
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Killing off the shoppie scum? 
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Nov 20, 2016 22:21
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Death to the shoppies
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Nov 20, 2016 23:39
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paging Ratbag Ciarg to the thread to tell us about how Shoppies are actually cool and good
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Nov 20, 2016 23:40
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A Good Username posted:http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-union-to-challenge-shoppies-after-massive-wages-scandal-20161119-gsszlr.html Good. Edit: oh, I see I won a new avatar
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Nov 20, 2016 23:41
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Make Avatars Great Again
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Nov 21, 2016 00:06
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Wow the comments sections on Global Warming articles is something. I think the internet is the final nail in the human race. The freedom to believe false information will kill us all.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:14
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Anidav posted:Wow the comments sections on Global Warming articles is something. Only a quarter of Americans - Americans are 'climate skeptics'. They're really in a minority, they just like to spray their poo poo everywhere because they think they're speaking truth to power. It becomes a problem when some of them get into government. But I don't think they're getting elected on a climate skeptic platform.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:23
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All these avatars man.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:31
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I like the facial expression of mine but b/c everyone has it, it makes looking through the thread a bit annoying.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:33
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Starshark posted:Only a quarter of Americans - Americans are 'climate skeptics'. They're really in a minority, they just like to spray their poo poo everywhere because they think they're speaking truth to power. It becomes a problem when some of them get into government. But I don't think they're getting elected on a climate skeptic platform. Climate change wasn't the centre of Trumps platform but did you ignore the whole Tony Abbott carbon tax thing or what.
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Nov 21, 2016 00:57
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Solemn Sloth posted:Climate change wasn't the centre of Trumps platform but did you ignore the whole Tony Abbott carbon tax thing or what. The whole "Carbon Tax" thing was on the basis that it would increase prices of electricity. Which it did. By 5%. Compared to the 25% increase the electricity providers built into pumping up infrastructure spending on poles and wires.
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Nov 21, 2016 01:04
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