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Essential
Aug 14, 2003

Hippyflip posted:

Hey i was just wondering if somone could post me a easey build for a first time hardcore play

I just started playing (after having the game since beta) about a week ago. I used this forum post to find a build: http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0cb782f492b0f71e9884f6e5f5c920df&t=36808

Look for one's that say hC or whatever code they use for hardcore tested.

I've been having a blast playing a Shaman/Occultist build using Wendigo's Totem & Sigil of Consumption. I'm level 32 now about 1/2 way through act 2. Regarding this game versus PoE, I'm like a lot of you in that I don't have a ton of time to play. Really enjoying GD for now.

Essential fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 20, 2016

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docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

soscannonballs posted:

So are there any changes to the base game in the past few months? I see there is a DLC thing but I am not sure if I want to buy that.

The Crucible DLC is certainly not necessary, but I enjoy messing about with it a lot more than I thought I would. (It's also a decent way to get a jump-start on your devotion points if you are so inclined.)

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Justin_Brett posted:

I've been thinking: would a bleed build based around Grasping Vines be usable at all?

ssmagus posted:

Yes, bind rend to it, Kill everything.

Or better yet, roll Shaman/Occultist and bind Rend to Curse of Frailty, since Rend doesn't have a cooldown and Grasping Vines does.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:

The Mash posted:

Or better yet, roll Shaman/Occultist and bind Rend to Curse of Frailty, since Rend doesn't have a cooldown and Grasping Vines does.

Shaman+Occultist, Grasping Vines, Curse of Frailty, Rend on one and Wendigo's Mark on the other.

Everything dies and heals you while keeling over.

Or just play a pet build with CoF+Rend and murder everything while basically being invincible (as long as you invest in the pet taunt skills).

e: Seriously, the 'lazy pokemon' pet build is a monster. I don't do it exactly the way the post on the official forum does, but even with just Blood of Dreeg and Curse of Frailty as active skills (and Primal Summon later on) pets tear through stuff. Up through act 2 of Veteran at least the hellhound and briarthorn will instagib basic monsters at just rank 8 or so, so you don't even need to max them out early. And the raven does a surprisingly high amount of damage, it just has an annoying AI package.

WarLocke fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Nov 21, 2016

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

The Mash posted:

Or better yet, roll Shaman/Occultist and bind Rend to Curse of Frailty, since Rend doesn't have a cooldown and Grasping Vines does.

It does, but only of one second, while it stays up for four.

I went with Trickster for something a bit more unique, and so far the general strategy is putting down the vines for crowd control, then throwing in Devouring Swarm and Phantasmal Blades whenever I need to. Vines has Falcon Sweep on it, which I'll switch to one of the other skills once I get to Huntress. Wendigo's Mark does sound pretty appealing for Devouring Swarm, though.

Justin_Brett fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Nov 21, 2016

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:

Justin_Brett posted:

It does, but only of one second, while it stays up for four.

Grasping Vines lasts for four seconds on a one-second cooldown, and at max rank covers a little over half the screen IIRC (the effected area is larger than the animation at high ranks).

A maxed-out Curse of Frailty covers the entire screen (15+ meter radius, equivalent to Blood of Dreeg's range IIRC) and lasts something over 12 seconds. The only drawback it has compared to GV is that it can't effect mobs that entire the radius after it's cast (and that it does no damage inherently). But it has no cooldown so you can spam it to catch newcomers.

Having both is great, but if I had to choose only one it would definitely be CoF. It still 'tics' every second or so to check for devotion procs, even though it's not doing damage. A ranked-up CoF with a no/low cooldown devotion proc is loving nuts.

Oh, one time GV would be better is that since it does damage it can crit; CoF can't crit so it can't trigger 'on crit' devotions.

soscannonballs
Dec 6, 2007

I am also doing a dot-based guy with Bloody Pox, Devouring Swarm, and Grasping Vines. For offensive devotions I am planning on doing Rend + Wendigo's Mark + either Eldritch Fire or Acid Spray. I already have a source a Reduced Target's Resistance so I am leaning towards Eldritch Fire since it also has a slow attached. I am using the Grimarillion mod so I don't know if it bumps up the level/devotion caps or not.

matryx
Jul 22, 2005

I think I just had an evilgasm...
Looks like it'll be an update in December starting to flesh out the Aetherial side of things. Getting a new challenge dungeon by the sounds of it.

Dahbadu
Aug 22, 2004

Reddit has helpfully advised me that I look like a "15 year old fortnite boi"

WarLocke posted:

Grasping Vines lasts for four seconds on a one-second cooldown, and at max rank covers a little over half the screen IIRC (the effected area is larger than the animation at high ranks).

A maxed-out Curse of Frailty covers the entire screen (15+ meter radius, equivalent to Blood of Dreeg's range IIRC) and lasts something over 12 seconds. The only drawback it has compared to GV is that it can't effect mobs that entire the radius after it's cast (and that it does no damage inherently). But it has no cooldown so you can spam it to catch newcomers.

Having both is great, but if I had to choose only one it would definitely be CoF. It still 'tics' every second or so to check for devotion procs, even though it's not doing damage. A ranked-up CoF with a no/low cooldown devotion proc is loving nuts.

Oh, one time GV would be better is that since it does damage it can crit; CoF can't crit so it can't trigger 'on crit' devotions.

Keep in mind that GV has a cooldown, so it has a higher proc chance. It also has more "ticks" per second, so more chances to proc per second. CoF is also great, don't get me wrong, but GV is like literally the best "fire and forget" skill to proc 0 cooldown devotions. At least, that's my two cents.

The Wonder Weapon
Dec 16, 2006



What's a cool dual pistol build? Preferably something that A. doesn't use a lot of fire damage and B. gets to throw something other than flashbangs

Hippyflip
Mar 21, 2014
[quote="Essential" post="466638892"]
I just started playing (after having the game since beta) about a week ago. I used this forum post to find a build: http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0cb782f492b0f71e9884f6e5f5c920df&t=36808

Look for one's that say hC or whatever code they use for hardcore tested.

Awesome thanks man

soscannonballs
Dec 6, 2007

Do slows from different sources stack? Currently I have Curse of Frailty, Grasping Vines, and a devotion proc bound to CoF that slows so I want to make sure I am not wasting the devotion proc.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:

soscannonballs posted:

Do slows from different sources stack? Currently I have Curse of Frailty, Grasping Vines, and a devotion proc bound to CoF that slows so I want to make sure I am not wasting the devotion proc.

I think so, but they probably stack multiplicatively (that is, two 50% slows would 'actually' slow for 75%, rather than 100% which would keep mobs from doing anything) although I haven't tried going all-in on slows myself to confirm.

My random question for today: Does the "-10% Spirit cost for Weapons" bonus from the Crane constellation apply to offhands/foci/tomes? If so that would save you 70-something stat points toward equipping level 75 tomes (ie, Black Tome of Og'Napesh)...

brain dammej
Oct 6, 2013

WarLocke posted:

My random question for today: Does the "-10% Spirit cost for Weapons" bonus from the Crane constellation apply to offhands/foci/tomes? If so that would save you 70-something stat points toward equipping level 75 tomes (ie, Black Tome of Og'Napesh)...

Yup, sure does. I've equipped the Tome with exactly this sort of setup.

Vakal
May 11, 2008
I wish they would do away with the restrictions of what skills can be bound to the left mouse button.

I swear someone on the Iron Lore / Crate dev team has a personal vendetta against it since Titan's Quest was like that as well and it was never changed until THQ Nordic took over and released the Anniversary Edtion.

Vakal fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 27, 2016

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
Get Autohotkey or Joy2key or something and rebind LMouse to like fn or pgdn and just bind your LMouse to the hotbar ability you want.

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
How does this Devotion spread sound for a two-hander Shaman/Soldier build?

Tier 1 - Falcon
Devotion points needed: 1 Purple
Devotion points used: 5 (All 5 nodes taken)
Devotion points given: 3 Purple and 3 Green
Devotion skills: Falcon Swoop (at max level, gives six falcons each of which do 65% weapon damage every 2 seconds, very useful for a two-handed weapon build)

Tier 1 - Imp
Devotion points needed: 1 Blue
Devotion points used: 5 (All 5 nodes taken)
Devotion points given: 3 Blue and 3 Green
Devotion skills: Aetherfire (no cooldown, gives chance to confuse)

Tier 1 - Akeron's Scorpion
Devotion points needed: 1 Green
Devotion points used: 4 (the 4 nodes leading to and ending with Scorpion Sting)
Devotion points given: None
Devotion skills: Scorpion Sting (reduce DA on enemies)

Tier 2 - Kraken
Devotion points needed: 5 Green and 5 Blue
Devotion points used: 5 (All 5 nodes taken)
Devotion points given: 2 Red and 3 Blue
Devotion skills: None, but gives very nice passive boosts to attack speed, movespeed and damage

Tier 2 - Dire Bear
Devotion points needed: 5 Purple and 5 Blue
Devotion points used: 6 (All 6 nodes taken)
Devotion points given: 1 Purple and 1 Blue
Devotion skills: Maul (AOE, gives chance to stun)

Tier 2 - Wendigo
Devotion points needed: 4 Red and 6 Blue
Devotion points used: 6 (All 6 nodes taken)
Devotion points given: 2 Red
Devotion skills: Wendigo's Mark (no cooldown, gives high lifeleech)

Tier 2 - Behemoth
Devotion points needed: 3 Red, 4 Green and 4 Blue
Devotion points used: 3 (the 3 nodes leading to and ending with Giant's Blood)
Devotion points given: None
Devotion skills: Giant's Blood (one of the best Tier 2 defensive devotions)

Tier 2 - Affliction
Devotion points needed: 4 Purple, 3 Red and 4 Green
Devotion points used: 3 (the 3 nodes leading to and ending with Fetid Pool)
Devotion points given: None
Devotion skills: Fetid Pool (gives chance to slow)

Tier 2 - Manticore
Devotion points needed: 4 Red and 6 Green
Devotion points used: 6 (all 6 nodes)
Devotion points given: 1 Purple and 1 Green
Devotion skills: Acid Spray (reduces armour and all resistances)

Tier 2 - Rhowan's Crown
Devotion points needed: 4 Purple and 6 Green
Devotion points used: 3 (the 3 nodes leading to and ending with Elemental Storm)
Devotion points given: None
Devotion skills: Elemental Storm (reduces elemental resistances)

Tier 2 - Huntress
Devotion points needed: 4 Purple, 3 Red and 4 Green
Devotion points used: 4 (the 4 nodes leading to and ending with Rend)
Devotion points given: None
Devotion skills: Rend (no cooldown, reduces enemy OA and bleed resistance)


DEVOTION POINTS NEEDED AND OBTAINED
Highest Devotion Points needed: 5 Purple, 6 Green, 6 Blue, 4 Red
Total Devotion Points obtained: 5 Purple, 7 Green, 7 Blue, 4 Red

DEVOTION SKILLS OBTAINED
Falcon Swoop (at max level, gives six falcons each of which do 65% weapon damage every 2 seconds, very useful for a two-handed weapon build)
Aetherfire (no cooldown, gives chance to confuse)
Scorpion Sting (reduces DA on enemies)
Maul (gives chance to stun)
Wendigo's Mark (no cooldown, gives high lifeleech)
Giant's Blood (one of the best Tier 2 defensive devotions)
Fetid Pool (gives chance to slow)
Acid Spray (reduces armour and all resistances)
Elemental Storm (reduces elemental resistances)
Rend (no cooldown, reduces enemy OA and bleed resistance)

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

What is your main damage type, bleed, physical or lightning? Whichever one it is, you should pick devotions that support it more.

Aetherfire is good for an aether character, but I don't think the confuse chance is worth it when you could be getting a much more reliable boost to offense and defense with other devotions.

Akeron's scorpion also gives you very little because you have no synergy with poison and two stronger options for reducing DA, Markovian's Advantage and Blindside, on the soldier tree (reduced enemy DA does not stack, but it will stack with - enemy DA).

Affliction is not helpful for the same reasons as the above two.

I'm not sure that Wendigo is too helpful for you either, because you can get plenty of sustain from life leech, wendigo totem and feral hunger.

Pick one of either rowan's crown or manticore; they don't stack. Or, if you go lightning, you could consider wind devil instead. If you go lightning, you need widow, if you go physical, you need assassin's mark, if you go bleed, keep huntress. An important rule about resistance reduction: -n% resist stacks with itself and with -n resist, but -n resist doesn't stack with itself.

Aim for a tier 3 constellation that supports your chosen damage type. Tree of life for defense works for everyone. Spear of the heavens is typically associated with lightning, mogdrogen with bleed and oleron with physical. Other things might work out as well, I've heard of people taking dying god for the +all speed, +crit damage even when not using a chaos/vitality build, for example. The actual skill on the tier 3s is pretty hit or miss. The proc on spear of the heavens feels really weak, but you still get a huge amount of OA and +% lightning damage, which is the real reason to take the constellation.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 2, 2016

Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.
Nap Ghost
I just finished a quest and got a skeleton key and a recipe to make more. There is a door that uses it that leads to The Lord Executioner. Is this something I should wait and come back for? I'm L30 and not especially optimized.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
You might not beat Alkamos but it's not just him right away, there's a whole dungeon that can give you some good drops.

Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.
Nap Ghost
But they key only works for one pass through the door right? So I should want to go the distance.

Vulpes
Nov 13, 2002

Well, shit.

Salvor_Hardin posted:

But they key only works for one pass through the door right? So I should want to go the distance.

Yeah, you only get one shot, if you die you lose it. But the keys aren't that hard to make more of, so don't sweat it too much if you want to give it a shot and see how you go.

The Wonder Weapon
Dec 16, 2006



Is there a strategy for speeding up the rare crafting mat acquisition process? Certain zones or enemy types or what have you?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

The Wonder Weapon posted:

Is there a strategy for speeding up the rare crafting mat acquisition process? Certain zones or enemy types or what have you?

Heroes of that type. Manticores for Manticore Eyes, Cthonians for Blood of Cthon, etc. Or just do Crucible.

You can also freely exchange Ancient Hearts, Blood of Cthon, and Tainted Brain Matter at the smith in Necropolis.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Dec 2, 2016

JosephWongKS
Apr 4, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo

Heithinn Grasida posted:

What is your main damage type, bleed, physical or lightning? Whichever one it is, you should pick devotions that support it more.

Aetherfire is good for an aether character, but I don't think the confuse chance is worth it when you could be getting a much more reliable boost to offense and defense with other devotions.

Akeron's scorpion also gives you very little because you have no synergy with poison and two stronger options for reducing DA, Markovian's Advantage and Blindside, on the soldier tree (reduced enemy DA does not stack, but it will stack with - enemy DA).

Affliction is not helpful for the same reasons as the above two.

I'm not sure that Wendigo is too helpful for you either, because you can get plenty of sustain from life leech, wendigo totem and feral hunger.

Pick one of either rowan's crown or manticore; they don't stack. Or, if you go lightning, you could consider wind devil instead. If you go lightning, you need widow, if you go physical, you need assassin's mark, if you go bleed, keep huntress. An important rule about resistance reduction: -n% resist stacks with itself and with -n resist, but -n resist doesn't stack with itself.

Aim for a tier 3 constellation that supports your chosen damage type. Tree of life for defense works for everyone. Spear of the heavens is typically associated with lightning, mogdrogen with bleed and oleron with physical. Other things might work out as well, I've heard of people taking dying god for the +all speed, +crit damage even when not using a chaos/vitality build, for example. The actual skill on the tier 3s is pretty hit or miss. The proc on spear of the heavens feels really weak, but you still get a huge amount of OA and +% lightning damage, which is the real reason to take the constellation.

Thanks for your advice! I was aware that I was giving up raw power with such a diverse spread of Devotions, but thought that getting so many different kinds of stuns / slows and -resistances would make up for it. Also, all those Devotion skill effects going off all at once would look so sparkly and pretty on the screen.

But then I realised that a Warder doesn't have enough skills with sufficiently low cooldowns and/or AOE skills to stick eight offensive Devotion skills onto. Many of them will end up being under-utilised, so it's still better to go for a more focused approach as you say.

I checked the items in Grim Calc and found that the top Shaman-oriented two-handed weapons are both lightning-focused (Ultos Stormseeker and Stormreaver). Bleed doesn't seem as well-supported, so I'll go with a focus on lightning in my Devotions too.

EDIT: Apart from Huntress, the other bleed-based Tier-2 Devotion is Berserker, which requires an axe. HOWEVER, the top bleed-based legendary two-hander is a mace (Wildblood Crusher), as is the top base weapon-type (Troll Bonecrusher). Why would Crate do this? Welp, another reason to go lightning over bleed.

JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 2, 2016

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Bleed actually has quite a lot of support for warders. Bladesweep with the clean sweep transmuter is by far the strongest bleed skill in the game and fighting form on cadence is really strong too. Savagery also adds quite a lot for bleed characters, and devouring swarm is a very powerful bleed resistance debuff. In terms of gear, the best choice is probably guillotine, not wildblood crusher, and the guillotine is indeed an axe, though I don't know how crucial berserker is to a bleed character. I haven't actually played one into the end game, but on the official forums people report 200k bleed ticks on top of high health and good sustain, so I don't think you should write off the bleed warder. On the other hand, the flavor of the month lightning build is in fact an elementalist (shaman/demolitionist), since soldier doesn't support lightning damage while demolitionist gives better offense without an unacceptable loss in defense.

What is really lacking is one-handed weapons for a DoT soldier. All the good one-handers with poison or bleed damage are for night blades.

Tinfoil Papercut
Jul 27, 2016

by Athanatos
Love this game so far, I've made like 10 different characters because I have ALT-itis. Latest is a sword + board VIT damage Conjurer with Totems galore and CoF. Screen is red lightning blood death and I love it. :unsmigghh:

Glad they're adding more Aetherial stuff - they never really had a big bad unless you count the guy at Fort Ikon or w/e. I find the storyline with them interesting:



Aetherials: "AHA! We have subtly manipulated your government by possessing your leaders and weakening your ability to respond to our threat, and now are invading and loving everything up EXACTLY according to plan! Submit to our will, human scum!"

Humans: *Joins death / blood cult en masse, begins summoning C'thulu.*

Aetherials: :chloe:

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

Tinfoil Papercut posted:

Aetherials: "AHA! We have subtly manipulated your government by possessing your leaders and weakening your ability to respond to our threat, and now are invading and loving everything up EXACTLY according to plan! Submit to our will, human scum!"

Humans: *Joins death / blood cult en masse, begins summoning C'thulu.*

Aetherials: :chloe:

Humanity: No one can gently caress us up like we can.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
As a Magic the Gathering player Cairn is a really great setting, since it basically mashes Zendikar (horrors from beyond the void that warp the environment) together with Innistrad (cultists and zombies everywhere).

Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.
Nap Ghost

Justin_Brett posted:

As a Magic the Gathering player Cairn is a really great setting, since it basically mashes Zendikar (horrors from beyond the void that warp the environment) together with Innistrad (cultists and zombies everywhere).

Hadn't thought of it that way but that's really apt.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Justin_Brett posted:

As a Magic the Gathering player Cairn is a really great setting, since it basically mashes Zendikar (horrors from beyond the void that warp the environment) together with Innistrad (cultists and zombies everywhere).

Imnistrad is basically Lovecraft's Innsmouth

Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008
Being able to craft a relic makes no sense.

Tykero
Jun 22, 2009

Tinfoil Papercut posted:

Love this game so far, I've made like 10 different characters because I have ALT-itis. Latest is a sword + board VIT damage Conjurer with Totems galore and CoF. Screen is red lightning blood death and I love it. :unsmigghh:

Glad they're adding more Aetherial stuff - they never really had a big bad unless you count the guy at Fort Ikon or w/e. I find the storyline with them interesting:



Aetherials: "AHA! We have subtly manipulated your government by possessing your leaders and weakening your ability to respond to our threat, and now are invading and loving everything up EXACTLY according to plan! Submit to our will, human scum!"

Humans: *Joins death / blood cult en masse, begins summoning C'thulu.*

Aetherials: :chloe:


I love this summary so much.

The Wonder Weapon
Dec 16, 2006



Mechafunkzilla posted:

Heroes of that type. Manticores for Manticore Eyes, Cthonians for Blood of Cthon, etc. Or just do Crucible.

You can also freely exchange Ancient Hearts, Blood of Cthon, and Tainted Brain Matter at the smith in Necropolis.
Ah, gotcha, thanks.

Justin_Brett posted:

As a Magic the Gathering player Cairn is a really great setting, since it basically mashes Zendikar (horrors from beyond the void that warp the environment) together with Innistrad (cultists and zombies everywhere).
So, uh, Shadows Over Innistrad?

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:
Is it worth going back to the Titan Quest Anniversary Edition after playing this?

I just noticed that TQAE is a thing, does it change/add enough to make it worth going back to?

Hauki
May 11, 2010


No. I say that as someone who played a lot of TQ back in the day. Even with the update it hasn't aged that well.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

The Wonder Weapon posted:

So, uh, Shadows Over Innistrad?

Pretty much!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

WarLocke posted:

Is it worth going back to the Titan Quest Anniversary Edition after playing this?

I just noticed that TQAE is a thing, does it change/add enough to make it worth going back to?

As a very, very casual ARPG player - yes. I put in roughly four hours into Grim Dawn before putting it back down. Titan Quest has been the one to hook me with the fighting by daylight thing - and I'd like to go back to Grim Dawn when I'm done with TQ.

Also, on a financial plus, it regularly goes on sale for like five bucks. You could pick it up, check it out, and refund it if it isn't your thing.

ssmagus
Apr 2, 2010
Assmagus, LPer ass-traordinaire
TQAE is a really slow game. TQ only speeds up on higher difficulties as higher level farmed monster unique greens and legendaries are far far better than anything else (and have super low drop rates with only one guaranteed),Also no holding down the mouse smart targeting and no smart casting add to it's slowness. The first is a TQ design choice, the second is something I hope the new devs add.

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

ssmagus posted:

TQAE is a really slow game. TQ only speeds up on higher difficulties as higher level farmed monster unique greens and legendaries are far far better than anything else (and have super low drop rates with only one guaranteed),Also no holding down the mouse smart targeting and no smart casting add to it's slowness. The first is a TQ design choice, the second is something I hope the new devs add.

TQ:AE has a global speed up the game setting, and... I admit it, I don't like smart targeting. I turned it off in Grim Dawn while I was playing that.

I mean, it's obviously a game made a decade ago without any of the new polish from Grim Dawn, and it lacks a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm finding it to be an incredibly soothing game to play for unwinding - so it really depends on what you're looking for out of the genre, I think.

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