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meatsaw posted:Right now I just have 2 questions - can you ever field an army with units from different factions? And are all battles between two factions, or are there ever battlefields with more than 2 sides? e: You won't see three-way fights though, you're only on the same battlefield if the reinforcing army is allied to one of the combatants.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:13
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Bolt throwers seem so good I'm wondering when cannons are still worth taking. They're quite cost effective.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:24
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bolts only pen 1 model i think.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:26
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Bolt Throwers also can't stumble Giants.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:29
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Thank you both. I know these are probably basic questions, but I still haven't been able to find the answers for them. Is line of sight relevant in battle? Starting a battle so far it looks like I could see the entire enemy army from the beginning - is LOS from trees and landscape a thing in this game? Flanking the enemy army with quarrelers on the other side of a patch of forest they seemed to ignore my guys until I opened up on them - but couldn't find any immediate indicator whether they could see me or not, and like I said it looked like I could see all of them from the beginning.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:35
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meatsaw posted:Thank you both. I know these are probably basic questions, but I still haven't been able to find the answers for them. LOS is occasionally a thing but it usually doesn't matter too much. Stalking units or dudes in forests are much more common.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:37
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meatsaw posted:Is line of sight relevant in battle? Starting a battle so far it looks like I could see the entire enemy army from the beginning - is LOS from trees and landscape a thing in this game? Flanking the enemy army with quarrelers on the other side of a patch of forest they seemed to ignore my guys until I opened up on them - but couldn't find any immediate indicator whether they could see me or not, and like I said it looked like I could see all of them from the beginning. Yes, absolutely! This has been the case since Rome II. It's particularly noticeable as the Dwarfs on mountainous maps, since it seems to take model size into account. Also if you can stuff a unit into a forest, you'll see a little eye icon on the UI that indicates they're hidden.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:40
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Fangz posted:So far, you can't field a mixed faction army. The best you can get is to get in a situation where you or your enemy is allied with stacks from a different faction. You could thus get an Empire + Dwarf vs Chaos battle. Vampire Counts and Brettonians can ally with the Empire or Dwarf factions too. Theoretically you could have a VC/Empire/Dwarf/Bretonnian allied army face off against Chaos+beastmen, but it seems unlikely to arise organically. I think the Greenskins can ally with Vampire Counts or even Beastmen too, but its insanely hard to overcome a lot of the diplomatic penalties.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:41
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meatsaw posted:Is there a good source of information about gameplay/lore? I haven't really gotten much from what Wikis I've found. Best two sources I've used are Honga.net for all the number crunching, and browsing 1d4chan for crash course lore articles.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:43
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wiegieman posted:LOS is occasionally a thing but it usually doesn't matter too much. Stalking units or dudes in forests are much more common. e: vvvv Nice, I'd hoped they used the Doombull-style skill tree a little more. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 18:43
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Triskelli posted:Best two sources I've used are Honga.net for all the number crunching, and browsing 1d4chan for crash course lore articles. Seconding this!!! The Total War 'Wiki' posted an article on Elven Offices. Apparently Durthu gets a different set of offices from Orion, which is a thing. e; oh and an interesting thing from total wareddit; Al_CA posted:Exactly this... Glade Lords for example have two personal combat skill-trees, melee and ranged. Embarking on one tree closes off the other, pushing you to specialise in one or t'other. Same with their battle (army buff) skills trees, there's a ranged and a melee path, one of which you choose. brocretin fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 18:46
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ive used hills to great effect, like a battle that gave me 0% win chance in autoresolve where my lovely tier 1 beastmen faced a full stack of strong artillery and ranged and snuck up to them using hills, letting them only get off a single shot
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Nov 21, 2016 18:47
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brocretin posted:Seconding this!!! e: Though reading the article it does look like it appears to be deliberate for the Welves instead of accidental in that they want you to have the option to focus on certain units in armies.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:50
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meatsaw posted:As a noob to both Total War (never played) and Warhammer (don't know jack), can I say how much fun I've been having playing this one. I've been learning via Let's Play videos and playing the Dwarf campaign. Is there a good source of information about gameplay/lore? I haven't really gotten much from what Wikis I've found. You specifically only use units from one faction, otherwise it's too easy to just pick and choose the best elements of each faction. You have to take the good with the bad.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:50
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meatsaw posted:Thank you both. I know these are probably basic questions, but I still haven't been able to find the answers for them. LoS is a thing, if you can't field dudes with stalk (hidden in all terrain) then you'll want to break LoS for your hidden guys. Most units can hide in forests so take advantage of that. If you're not sure, the little circles at the bottom of the unit card when you mouse over or select a unit will tell you things like Frenzy, Hides in Forest, Strider etc. Mouse over and see what your dudes have.  The winged skull circle means the unit causes fear, I forget what the eye means. The ones below that are buffs and debuffs.  During the battle the blue markers will pop up over those cards on the bottom of your screen to indicate if they're running, moving, firing, or hidden. Keep an eye out for an eye (  ) if you want to know if your dudes are hidden.
Korgan fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 18:52
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brocretin posted:Seconding this!!! Also it looks like in the Grand Campaign Athel Loren has between five or six regions based on the picture, which might be alright given each settlement has 10 building slots and is its own province.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:56
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quote:If there’s one overriding factor that defines the way the Wood Elves campaign experience, it’s specialisation through choice. Cool if true.
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Nov 21, 2016 18:59
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wiegieman posted:LOS is occasionally a thing but it usually doesn't matter too much. Stalking units or dudes in forests are much more common. Korgan posted:LoS is a thing, if you can't field dudes with stalk (hidden in all terrain) then you'll want to break LoS for your hidden guys. Most units can hide in forests so take advantage of that. If you're not sure, the little circles at the bottom of the unit card when you mouse over or select a unit will tell you things like Frenzy, Hides in Forest, Strider etc. Mouse over and see what your dudes have. Also for hidden guys, during the battle the More good news! Thank you both, and that screenshot is exactly what I was looking for. There is a lot of information on that screen. There must be a grand manual of this I've missed somewhere? Playing this game makes me long for the days of thick printed manuals you could read when you ... weren't playing.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:00
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Stalk is useful in this regard. Several goblin units for example have stalk which is good because Goblins are flimsy and spook easily, so being able to close a lot of distance before they get shot up is a force multiplier for them. Similarly Dwarf Rangers can set up nice killzones that the enemy won't initially see and shoot at forces charging at your visible guys. A few other little things I learned: -The shape of formations matters. A unit with Charge Defense, for example, that is standing still and in a square formation will hardly budge when Shock Cavalry charges into them and they'll stop the attackers dead in their tracks. But a unit of ranged guys spread in a thin line will easily get punched through and disrupted. -Units with flat trajectory projectiles need a clear line of sight, so handgunners/thunderers, Cannons, etc should be put on top of hills to maximize the number of enemy targets they can hit. Some spells, like Fireball, have similar limitations; if you shoot it on level ground there's a good chance the fireball will whizz right past the target and miss completely, but if firing down from high ground you can get it to explode nearby if it didn't hit dead on. -Sometimes if you can't see the enemy armies in their starting areas initially, using a unit with Vanguard Deployment can reveal them for you. This can be great if you already have artillery in range or to reposition to avoid getting flanked.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:03
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Are Regiments of Renown balanced? I haven't closely compared their stat improvements. Some get unique stuff added (The Gob Lobber, for example, gives morale penalties to targets hit) while some are just a 'better' version of the base unit. The main benefits seem to be that 1.) you get them instantly and 2.) you can get access to units you haven't unlocked buildings for, which is fine if you only planned on having 1 unit of that type in a stack anyway.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:10
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Incidentally, once they moved the map system from province-based the ability for three or more way battles to happen went away. You could also betray your allies mid-battle in Medieval (and possibly Shogun) though I don't believe they could do the same. You could still create multiple teams for skirmish and multi in Rome at least, but that got phased out too.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:12
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brocretin posted:Seconding this!!! So basically the best way to play Wood Elves will be to pick Durthu and build strictly tree spirit armies, wipe out the Elves for loving up your forest, and then continue on Durthu's pissed off crusade and stomp the entirety of the Old World. I can't wait.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:13
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RentACop posted:Incidentally, once they moved the map system from province-based the ability for three or more way battles to happen went away. You could also betray your allies mid-battle in Medieval (and possibly Shogun) though I don't believe they could do the same. Too bad. I'd love to see some 'Battle of 5 Armies' setpiece battles in this game. It would be delightfully chaotic.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:13
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Panfilo posted:Are Regiments of Renown balanced? I haven't closely compared their stat improvements. Some get unique stuff added (The Gob Lobber, for example, gives morale penalties to targets hit) while some are just a 'better' version of the base unit. The main benefits seem to be that 1.) you get them instantly and 2.) you can get access to units you haven't unlocked buildings for, which is fine if you only planned on having 1 unit of that type in a stack anyway. As far as one factions regiments vs anothers? Mostly, there's some tichy balance issues here and there, some of the RoR bonuses are wildly useful (armor piercing first company/gobbo wolf rider archers, flame weapon dwarf warriors/empire knights) some of them less so (slightly larger zombie horde  )As far as having regiments vs not? You are better off owning the respective DLCs as a whole. They cost more and require more upkeep, but come out effectively as a max veteran of it's base unit and it recruits instantly, giving you the ability to man up for a big fight more readily.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:17
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I just realized that my VC campaign started from just before GnG and will probably go at least until the elf dlc This is not a super great campaign and also I'm incredibly bad at VC. For all my previous campaigns, I stuck it out for the long victory. I think I'm barely gonna manage a short victory here.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:23
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DeathSandwich posted:As far as one factions regiments vs anothers? Mostly, there's some tichy balance issues here and there, some of the RoR bonuses are wildly useful (armor piercing first company/gobbo wolf rider archers, flame weapon dwarf warriors/empire knights) some of them less so (slightly larger zombie horde Thanks. Yeah I haven't seen all the unique little bonuses everything gets. Since they're 'instant' the increased cost and upkeep isn't that bad because I can hold off getting them until a big fight (one thing this game really punishes newbies is that turtling with huge armies sitting around doing nothing is a huge money sink)
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Nov 21, 2016 19:27
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ChickenWing posted:I just realized that my VC campaign started from just before GnG and will probably go at least until the elf dlc VC on the strategic map have to be extremely duplicitous. You are not going to be making trade deals with anyone but maybe Mousilion when you get to them. In order to really use them to the extent that the game uses VC against an empire/dwarf player, you basically have to have the mod that disables the AI public order cheat and reduces the AI's attrition resistance cheat, because you need to be able to capitalize on the disruption that undead rebellions and corruption provide for you. That's not to say you should solely and passively wait for those uprisings, mind, once you get more than about 20-30 corruption in a province you really ought to be swinging by and devouring them whole. Keep in mind that even if vampiric corruption is under 50%, if you own a province that has more than about 10% corruption you do not take attrition, though public order can be a problem. When you start a VC campaign, do yourself the favor and go down the social tech tree first. The extra income from settlements is phenomenal since settlements are your primary source of income as a faction, and they also give you passive +Corruption both in your provinces and in neighboring provinces without you having to build any special buildings, which allows you to better root yourself into provinces as you take them over. Once you get both those technologies and a couple of the +Corruption buildings in your settlements, you're poised to start AGGRESSIVELY expanding your holdings, by the time you work yourself into one province and conquer it, you'll have another neighbor on the verge of rebellion ripe for the taking. Take at least one army with +ambush chance and lightning strike. If your campaigns usually go like mine and you wind up inadvertently in a position to sweep up kislev, keep that ambush/LS army at the bottleneck between Kislev and Bearsongling camp. Hang out in the forest with 100% ambush chance and ambush chaos as they trickle in. During the final chaos wave keep a second army up there as ambush bait and for ganging up once you've singled out enemy stacks.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:01
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My games vs. Mukip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3i6kwanf6tgqtw/Nano%20Vs%20Mukip%202.zip?dl=0 Game 1: Chaos(Nano) vs Dwarfs (mukip) I overcommit on mukips ranged units but the melee line goes nice for me... until his ranged guys catch back up and I lose. Game 2: Chaos(mukip) vs Bret(Nano) mukip was nice enough not to bring bret vs. my chaos. I have no such compunctions. I take game 3: Empire(Nano) vs. Greenskins(mukip) I win the cav war on the flanks but massively lose the infantry war in the middle... but since I get his black orcs the other ones all get terrified off by KARL FRANZ. Elector counts are summoned, maidens weep, goblins wail and gnash their teeth as Siegmar himself breaks the greenskin menace. Result: 2-1 me which is probably a huge upset based on how last tournament went.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:24
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DeathSandwich posted:VC on the strategic map have to be extremely duplicitous. You are not going to be making trade deals with anyone but maybe Mousilion when you get to them. In order to really use them to the extent that the game uses VC against an empire/dwarf player, you basically have to have the mod that disables the AI public order cheat and reduces the AI's attrition resistance cheat, because you need to be able to capitalize on the disruption that undead rebellions and corruption provide for you. That's not to say you should solely and passively wait for those uprisings, mind, once you get more than about 20-30 corruption in a province you really ought to be swinging by and devouring them whole. Keep in mind that even if vampiric corruption is under 50%, if you own a province that has more than about 10% corruption you do not take attrition, though public order can be a problem. Nah you just invade people one by one and win like any other campaign. Just make sure to build a shitload of balefire braziers.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:25
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once you get vlad your garrisons will eventually end up at max veterancy, so rebellions are a joke anyway
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Nov 21, 2016 20:29
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Have they said anything about making magic more powerful? I think they could easily fix the vortex spells by allowing people to pick a direction for them to move and then having a random chance for a 'miscast' and they move in a random direction like they do currently.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:34
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Nanomashoes posted:Nah you just invade people one by one and win like any other campaign. Just make sure to build a shitload of balefire braziers. I agree with this dude. More thoughts on playing VC: Remember that among the other benefits agents provide, they passively corrupt the areas they are in. Every lord you get can take two levels in the 'cheaper recruit cost for heros' in the blue tree: this gives you +1 vampire hero limit. You can easily have a vampire deployed in every province you ow for the growth and corruption bonuses and still have enough left over to use as combat troops and spellcasters. Try and maintain a cash reserve. If you don't use regiments of renown in your 'main' armies, you can recruit a lord in trouble spots and use a combination of regiments of renown and raise dead for a full army, instantly. This can help you fend off surprise invasions or crush rebellions. I find VC to be the strongest faction from a strategic sense. You get the best lords and heros, and a ton of them. You have access to more and better troops than anyone else. Only income is a problem, and that can be fixed by sacking and looting. Vlad is the best lord in the game and it's not even remotely close. It's really fun, but not remotely fair. Eela6 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 21, 2016 |
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Nov 21, 2016 20:37
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Given that I enjoy having Dwarves hang back and perforate advancing enemies with missile weapons, I'm looking forward to Wood Elves being able to do the same thing, if not better in some ways. But man oh man are they gonna be a pain in the rear end to fight against.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:39
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dtkozl posted:Have they said anything about making magic more powerful? I think they could easily fix the vortex spells by allowing people to pick a direction for them to move and then having a random chance for a 'miscast' and they move in a random direction like they do currently. They have been making largely silent changes each patch to both nerf obviously broken spells (spirit leech) and to bring up unused spells to be more competitive (that entry level metal rain spell). I wish the developers would better annotate how they have been making magic changes though.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:56
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Thanks for the VC advice - I think a big part of my problem (based on prior thread advice) is that I didn't focus enough on income generating buildings and expanded too much and too fast, definitely outpacing my corruption, which led to a nice long period of doing nothing while I brought my fringe provinces up to a reasonable corruption level and couldn't push beyond them without getting attritioned to death.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:11
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The raiding stance will make you immune to attrition.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:24
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You can make so, so much money as VC by focusing on the gold mine in Drakenhof, deploying some income focused necromancers, and rushing for vampire keeps and necromancer towers.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:31
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VC is super simple to play but people in this thread seems to keep overthinking corruption. Just keep conquering constantly, you have a really easy time doing this thanks to raise dead. My fastest campaign victory so far was with the vampires since you never really need to stop. Spreading corruption is more of a really dumb gimmick than anything, I ignored it completely except for throwing up braziers in free settlement slots. Rebellions are mostly irrelevant since it's either free xp and money for you if you have a nearby army or if you don't then just recruit a new lord in the settlement and raise him some random zombies or skeletons.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:44
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wiegieman posted:You can make so, so much money as VC by focusing on the gold mine in Drakenhof, deploying some income focused necromancers, and rushing for vampire keeps and necromancer towers. Didn't they change it to where moneymancers and bankshees don't stack on top of each other? So you can't get to the point where your home province is making like 80k dark magic a turn?
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Nov 21, 2016 21:49
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DeathSandwich posted:Didn't they change it to where moneymancers and bankshees don't stack on top of each other? So you can't get to the point where your home province is making like 80k dark magic a turn? Why do it with your home privince, altdorf + marienburg is where the real money is.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:55
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