|
Thalantos posted:The issue here is that the government made a contract with these folks and isn't fulfilling their side of things is this actually true though though or is it something people choose to believe based on bad experiences and entitlement most people don't even get guaranteed health care. some people have to wait a hell of a lot longer than three weeks to get a free doctor's visit lol at the concept of people who presumably spent a fair amount of time in the armed services flabbergasted at how inefficient and incompetent the federal government can be
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:My economic burdens have gotten worse as well under Obama. Also, the VA got noticeably worse under him too. If only he'd waved his magic wand to bypass obstructionism and make everything all better... The President isn't a dictator*. *yet 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
I'd loving love it if CNN's reward for getting Donald Trump elected president was losing press access to the White House. It's not like they were particularly critical of him before, so either they throw a tantrum in response or they continue being as worthless as ever. It's funny to me too, because you could probably make a killing being the only major openly anti-Trump outlet in town
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
Confounding Factor posted:That's the thing. The conservative underclass and gun nuts will ALWAYS vote, so that's like what 30% of the electorate right there? I know Democrat voters are usually rational, so I wonder if they saw these pollsters give Clinton a surefire percentage of winning and decided to stay home? https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/800708268037459968
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:The issue here is that the government made a contract with these folks and isn't fulfilling their side of things and the democrats could have had their votes, if they even reached out to them a little bit. But we let trump take most of them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:do you realize that ww2 vets made up the largest portion of american vets (16m, over 1.5m still living) vietnam vets the next largest portion (8.5m, 4.7m still living, average age around 70), there are more living korean war vets than there are living first gulf war vets. the vet cohort is largely old and dying from old age, ignoring this fact is something people do for political reasons I didn't know this, my bad! That's what I get for talking out of my rear end
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
Excellent. Keep pissing off the media. Also if Sulzberger doesn't wear a wire to the next meeting he is an idiot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:is this actually true though though or is it something people choose to believe based on bad experiences and entitlement lol at the people who think veterans have to "wait 3 weeks before they get a free doctor's visit"
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I too am happy to see the media begin to fall under Trump's control We'll there is always MSNBC... Still Trump is sorta right. At his rallies he hardly railed about building the wall, deporting immigrants, mocking the disabled and all that. CNN and the like cut some of the footage and presented it as how much of a clown he is but his overall message was a lot different than what the mainstream media showed. They wanted hyperbole, its what gets people to watch their banal coverage. I'm not trying to defend Trump's campaign here. Yeah he's a total dog fucker of a human who should never have gotten even an inkling of a chance at the presidency, but we have to be a little more honest.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:
Jesus, I'm sorry.  Hang in there, buddy. I've PM if you ever need to talk.... Some days, I only held on due to my desire to spite statistics(being transgender and a combat veteran, I've probably got one of the higher chances of offing myself, statistically....)
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
SSNeoman posted:I agree with all this but what can we do about it? Like even here few people can muster up reasons why Clinton was that bad (third party lobotomy victims need not apply), the best reason probably came from Ezra Klein ("she's too cautious and poo poo might take a while"). That's the GOP spin machine doing work. And with the advent of essentially pirate news like reddit, we have yellow journalism 2.0. How do we fight against that without going into fake news territory. I mean "let old age, pain pills and meth take the fuckers" sounds good on paper, but I like economics and humanity so I'd rather it didn't get to that point. We have to design campaign narratives for these new realities. Include the "meme wars" as part of the planned evolution of a campaign narrative. That's not to say we needed more memes from the Clinton campaign, but that we need to understand how messages get passed and narratives established in the uncontrolled media spaces. We need to focus on winning the non-political spaces where political opinion is formed. And also recognize that as dumb as it has become, online matters. The number of activists initially pushing the Clinton health conspiracy stuff was very small but vocal online. But I'm also still frustrated at perennial organizing attempts. We need more real honest to goodness (unpaid) backchannel DNC shills. And we need it 10x and coordinated from the left wing activist groups.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Confounding Factor posted:We'll there is always MSNBC... You didn't watch much CNN did you? They aired his rallies end to end. Constantly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
the black husserl posted:The craziest thing about all of this is that people seem to be honestly arguing that Democrats have hosed the poor. Like it's just an accepted fact and we should give the Republicans a chance because they're nicer to poor people, even though they're sometimes racist about it. They elected a petty unstable narcissistic pampered baby-man billionaire to President because HE cares about the working class and the poor and will fix everything. *cuts taxes on the rich and corporations by a huge amount*
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Spaced God posted:I didn't know this, my bad! That's what I get for talking out of my rear end here check this out https://www.va.gov/vetdata/veteran_population.asp as of 2013 there were approximately 1.05m american veterans under the age of 30 there were 3.15m american veterans between the age of 65-69. there were 9.6m over the age of retirement. there were more veterans older than 85 than there were under 30 there's really no suprise as to why a lot of them are dying before a doctor can see them boner confessor fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:I think the fact you think she complete ignored economics is a big reason for the loss. It was, yes, bad messaging and priorities but it was there in her stump, it was there in the debates, it was there in the policies certainly. The issue is of course, none of that plays. It doesn't have to be about executive orders. In fact, even if people KNOW you cannot do something, It gives them a better idea of you as a candidate if you tell them what you would LIKE to do. As it is, I feel like trump dissing on Clinton, with her just talking about the issues, and actually NOT lowering herself to trumps level would have given her a lot of cred. If we wanted Trump to do the talking, we should have just left him to it. People did not need us to repeat what he said for them to hear it. As it is, I only noticed her responding to Trump's words, rather than talking about things she wanted to do. The more I think about it, the less it seems negative campaigning seems to have worked. thechosenone fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
Yes and Democrats who are in Congress need to be just as obstructionist as the GOPers were during Obama's presidency. Enough of this bullshit liberal "let's give him a chance".
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:is this actually true though though or is it something people choose to believe based on bad experiences and entitlement Yes. Yes, it is! The enlistment contract you sign is about like three inches thick. And considering you have to go get shot at to qualify, it's not really all that "free"
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:Jesus, I'm sorry. :/ Are you in NYC by any chance? If you ever wanna chill, hit me up. Hang in there, we need more people like you to lead us out of this hole we dug ourselves in.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
Thalantos posted:And considering you have to go get shot at to qualify, it's not really all that "free" way to erase the ~80% of veterans who never see combat, and all the vets who served in peacetime if you chose a combat mos to get healthcare benefits, uh, well, there's a reason they recruit people mainly under 25
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:22
|
|
|
Confounding Factor posted:Yes and Democrats who are in Congress need to be just as obstructionist as the GOPers were during Obama's presidency. Enough of this bullshit liberal "let's give him a chance". If you are reading this, You ARE The Resistance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:On the plus side, it's fundamentally a messaging problem, because Democratic policies are uniequivocally better for the working poor than Republican policies. Unless something changes, policy doesn't matter anymore. We went from soundbite politics to "just loving lie to me about everything" politics. Whoever tells the most and best outright lies wins. It's just too hard to counter the lies and disinformation now. If it take 3 paragraphs to disprove a one sentence lie that people want to believe, then it's already over.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:way to erase the ~80% of veterans who never see combat, and all the vets who served in peacetime But that still makes sense given that. Those who didn't see combat didn't get free healthcare. That is a problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
thechosenone posted:It doesn't have to be about executive orders. In fact, even if people KNOW you cannot do something, It gives them a better idea of you as a candidate if you tell them what you would LIKE to do. As it is, I feel like trump dissing on Clinton, with her just talking about the issues, and actually NOT lowering herself to trumps level would have given her a lot of cred. If we wanted Trump to do the talking, we should have just left him to it. People did not need us to repeat what he said for them to hear it. She tried that strategy for a while, you could see it in the debates. But the problem is no one asks Trump about the negative impacts of mercury when he wants to reopen coal mines, but the media does lead with the price tag of a Democratic proposal. Looking to the future we have to both articulate a believable vision and also don't fall prey to a narrative gotcha when the media of social media focuses on some element of that vision.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:way to erase the ~80% of veterans who never see combat, and all the vets who served in peacetime Yes, let's take a big poo poo on veterans, the working class, white people, PoC who didn't vote for Hillary, anyone who didn't vote for Hillary, people who couldn't leave work to vote.... did I leave anyone out?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:If you are reading this, You ARE The Resistance. I'm not sure I understand. What are you asking of me?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
RandomBlue posted:Unless something changes, policy doesn't matter anymore. We went from soundbite politics to "just loving lie to me about everything" politics. Whoever tells the most and best outright lies wins. But a lie you hate will never convince you over a lie you like assuming both sides are screaming. We need you to already like our lie first. Also the lie could be true for all it matters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
RandomBlue posted:Unless something changes, policy doesn't matter anymore. We went from soundbite politics to "just loving lie to me about everything" politics. Whoever tells the most and best outright lies wins. But how many lies does it take to disprove the truth? If you accept something to be true, and it is true, it is just that much harder for someone to lie to you. You don't have to disprove untruths, you just have to convince people of the truth, and they will naturally reinforce themselves with it. Lies don't have a leg to stand on compared to the truth.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Politicians seek to engage with those who have money If anyone really wants Trump to burn, run for office Y'all are pretty qualified
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:She tried that strategy for a while, you could see it in the debates. But the problem is no one asks Trump about the negative impacts of mercury when he wants to reopen coal mines, but the media does lead with the price tag of a Democratic proposal. I don't understand anything you wrote in this post, can you dumb it down for me a bit?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Confounding Factor posted:I'm not sure I understand. What are you asking of me? I think they want your Ohm value?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:She tried that strategy for a while, you could see it in the debates. But the problem is no one asks Trump about the negative impacts of mercury when he wants to reopen coal mines, but the media does lead with the price tag of a Democratic proposal. We don't have to think of things as that complicated. While it is important to prevent people from being harmed by mercury, it is also good to know how useful that mercury is when we capture it. Being green isn't just about not polluting, it is about efficiency, and the reduction of waste by making said waste something we want. A principle which can be understood by anyone, especially people who are self reliant (or at least fancy themselves more self reliant than others).
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:I don't understand anything you wrote in this post, can you dumb it down for me a bit? Hillary tried to get a pro-worker message across but anti trump stuff seemed to work better? Trump stuff flies like pumpkin spice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/800837035992948737%5C America. 2016. God help us.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
the new york post is a rag and if they had anything they wouldn't be using heavily photoshopped clickbait preview images
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
thechosenone posted:But how many lies does it take to disprove the truth? If you accept something to be true, and it is true, it is just that much harder for someone to lie to you. You don't have to disprove untruths, you just have to convince people of the truth, and they will naturally reinforce themselves with it. Lies don't have a leg to stand on compared to the truth. Perhaps you should catch up on recent events...
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
RandomBlue posted:Perhaps you should catch up on recent events... Was there some sort of disaster relating to the removal of mercury from the exhaust of powerplants? Or some similar issue? Oh you mean the disproving truth thing. Well, the main thing there is that things have to make sense, or else you just keep ramming into the facts. Things which are difficult to disprove and which are false can hang on for like, forever, but If they try to go up against something you can't ignore, they end up having a bad time. So what we need to do is just convince folks of things which help to build a foundation of facts which can shatter the lies which are cast upon it. This is easier said than done, but once someone knows whats good, they aren't gonna want to go back to the bad stuff. thechosenone fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:Hillary tried to get a pro-worker message across but anti trump stuff seemed to work better? Pretty sure the only "pro worker message" she sent out was screaming "WE'RE GONNA PUT COAL MINERS OUTTA BUSINESS" everything else was "well during my time working in the senate drafting legislation with my republican peers, I recall...zzzzzzzzzzz"
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
thechosenone posted:But how many lies does it take to disprove the truth? If you accept something to be true, and it is true, it is just that much harder for someone to lie to you. You don't have to disprove untruths, you just have to convince people of the truth, and they will naturally reinforce themselves with it. Lies don't have a leg to stand on compared to the truth. Nah lies are way more comfy than truths. Truths have no natural edge. Tight Booty Shorts posted:I don't understand anything you wrote in this post, can you dumb it down for me a bit? Nah I'm probably just not communicating well thb. Basically Clinton actually trying to stay on policies is too drat boring for the media. And when Democrats try to propose something dramatic and exciting the press factchecks and freaks out over cost etc. Meanwhile no one holds Trump to account for his crazy proposals, so they just cover it with no criticism of details, since he won't give any. So we have to come up with some pretty vision of the world without getting hosed when the press goes "actually that plan makes you the most spendy candidate ever, try and live it down".
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted::/ Atlanta, I'm afraid
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
Dead Cosmonaut posted:Politicians seek to engage with those who have money Id say this would be up for debate in a just world. Hillary had the largest warchest ever and faceplanted against an idiot who didn't even run a ground game in states that he won. That's the biggest repudiation of money in politics I've ever seen
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 00:33
|
|
