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Gorilla Salad posted:MiB said he only killed Maeve's daughter a year ago. Not necessarily. He just might not have killed any kids. He wanted to try doing something "truly evil" and killing a 4-year-old girl was the test he put himself to. He might have killed all sorts of adult Hosts before that.
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Nov 22, 2016 13:24
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Professor Shark posted:Also, I hope Ford gets killed by his little child host. Basically I want as many Jurassic Park novel references as possible in this show. That's been my prediction. Just like the compys. It's too perfect not to be true. We've already seen him kill the dog and Ford doesn't seem to sense the danger that behavior represents. They should all be destroyed.
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Nov 22, 2016 13:25
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I Am A Robot posted:Finally read an article that has all the correct interpretations in one place: Okay, that was very well presented. If anyone wants to understand the multiple timeframe theories, they should read this.
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Nov 22, 2016 13:29
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Gorilla Salad posted:MiB said he only killed Maeve's daughter a year ago. No, because his wife killed herself because he was an ordinary guy on the outside, and apparently anything but ordinary in West World, and seeing that lie dormant in her husband drove her to suicide. I'm guessing he was using WW the same as everyone else - to hook up with Dolores, and quest without any regard for the hosts feelings, even if it meant killing. I mean, it's strongly insinuated in this episode that the potential young MiB strangled the half-dead infantryman while Dolores was tripping out near the river.
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Nov 22, 2016 13:33
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Gorilla Salad posted:MiB said he only killed Maeve's daughter a year ago. I didint get this part too. He says his wife killed herself because she knew he was evil on westworld, but then after she died he decided to do something evil for the first time? That's what i got from his speech, which doenst makes any sense
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Nov 22, 2016 13:46
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Gorilla Salad posted:Okay, that was very well presented. I agree. I am still trying to get around the idea that the hosts are seeing a totally different person playing the role than who did. Dolores sees herself but maybe that is just artistic license. But Teddy's new memory of Wyatt comes equipped with another actor overlying Dolores as she shoots up the town? Is this a sign of Ford being cute and allowing history to echo? Or is it that he is just allowing a memory to surface and is grafting the new host Wyatt onto Dolores? Or is it that there really is no choice, the town will bring back too many memories and the best he can do is to put Wyatt over Dolores? Why would Ford create such a memory for Teddy? Presumably he is trying to interact with (thwart?) the MiB. Will Teddy break through and remember Dolores shooting up the town and wake up due to the horror? Will Dolores recreate her prior role? Why would she? Why did Ford put in the reveries in the first place? Did he? Did Arnold actually do it? And why would Ford recreate the town in the first place? If the town, Dolores, Armistice, etc. are all necessary parts of the maze then why is Ford going along with it and actually creating the maze? We presume that he is not in favor of the maze. Maybe he is an AI and really doesn't have a choice at this point. Once things start to get unlocked by the MiB his programming makes it necessary to allow the maze to proceed. If Arnold was the human and Ford was the host then there is a nice irony having them switch places.
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Nov 22, 2016 13:54
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Elias_Maluco posted:I didint get this part too. He says his wife killed herself because she knew he was evil on westworld, but then after she died he decided to do something evil for the first time? That's what i got from his speech, which doenst makes any sense He goes to Westworld with her brother right before they get married. He falls in love with Dolores. He figures out who he really is and opens up for the first time. He lives life and then tragedy strikes and Dolores dies. He comes back repeatedly, names his company in a nod to Dolores but does not ever have that same experience. She doesn't remember him. He knows that she broke through and was real and now she has been wiped and those memories and those feelings for him cannot be retrieved. He is bitter but still sees himself as a good person. He does much good in the world. His wife sees a different person and when she kills herself he wonders if they are right. He tries to do something evil and realizes he doesn't feel anything - he is hollow rather than sadistic. He doesn't feel bad but also doesn't take pleasure in inflicting pain. But then he sees Maeve do something real, something that reaffirms his belief that these robots can really break through and have meaningful interactions. He knows it was the fear and the grief that did it so he has to do those things we see - threatening, striking fear, etc. in order to truly awaken the hosts including the host he cares the most about, Dolores. Anyway, we'll see.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:01
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Perhaps there are a whole group of hosts who have gone too far with the Bicameral mindset and Ford doesn't really know what to do with them. It seems like no-one knows, so they just put them into the deep freeze in the lower levels. If they're just occupying part of the park and not following their loops (which doesn't necessarily mean that they know they're hosts and are planning on going full-HAL on their human masters, it might just mean that they're not following orders and just running on full improvisation mode), then maybe Ford's new narrative is him pitting non-bicameral hosts against Wyatt's dangerous hosts. Maybe Maeve is an essential part of that, and the little host army she's looking to build up will be the main part of that. I'm pretty sure that she and the two schmuck technicians are being carefully protected while she slowly starts awakening, considering Ford was the one who started the whole reverie update that lead to this in the first place.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:07
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The latest episode makes MiB = William a lot less likely because it would be kind of akward to have two background stories for the same character. I have a hard time to believe they would use the Dolores AND Maeve story line as motivation for one character.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:08
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GunnerJ posted:Not necessarily. He just might not have killed any kids. He wanted to try doing something "truly evil" and killing a 4-year-old girl was the test he put himself to. He might have killed all sorts of adult Hosts before that. Shoulda hosed the kid if he wanted to be truly truly, truly, evil.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:08
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The one funny thing out of /r/westworld: Their character charts Trigger Warning, Long 
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Nov 22, 2016 14:16
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:He goes to Westworld with her brother right before they get married. He falls in love with Dolores. He figures out who he really is and opens up for the first time. He lives life and then tragedy strikes and Dolores dies. He comes back repeatedly, names his company in a nod to Dolores but does not ever have that same experience. She doesn't remember him. He knows that she broke through and was real and now she has been wiped and those memories and those feelings for him cannot be retrieved. He is bitter but still sees himself as a good person. He does much good in the world. His wife sees a different person and when she kills herself he wonders if they are right. He tries to do something evil and realizes he doesn't feel anything - he is hollow rather than sadistic. He doesn't feel bad but also doesn't take pleasure in inflicting pain. But then he sees Maeve do something real, something that reaffirms his belief that these robots can really break through and have meaningful interactions. He knows it was the fear and the grief that did it so he has to do those things we see - threatening, striking fear, etc. in order to truly awaken the hosts including the host he cares the most about, Dolores. yeah, but both his wife and daughter were terrified of him, she said. Why? Just cause they "feel" he is bad on the inside? And his wife so scarfed she ends up killing herself? IDK, seems kinda silly LinkesAuge posted:The latest episode makes MiB = William a lot less likely because it would be kind of akward to have two background stories for the same character. I have a hard time to believe they would use the Dolores AND Maeve story line as motivation for one character. AFAIK WIll has no backstory other than "goes to the park with his future brother-in-law (who is this boss's son), is gonna get married as soon as he is back". If it happened 30 years ago, it fits perfectly with MiB backstory (he got married 30 years ago). MiB backstory (if MiB==Will) starts where Will's backstory ends EDIT: Are we sure Ted is dead again? It didnt seemed to me, just hurt. I was guessing he and MiB were going to be taken prisoners now Also, Bernard killed Elsie? Was that the one he was killing in his flashback? drat, I need to rewatch the episode Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 14:17
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He definitely isn't well, but I don't think Teddy's dead. Looked like Wyatt wanted him alive to me. Elias_Maluco posted:yeah, but both his wife and daughter were terrified of him, she said. Why? Just cause they "feel" he is bad on the inside? And his wife so scarfed she ends up killing herself? IDK, seems kinda silly Look at Steve Jobs. The guy thought he was Jesus 2.0, and lots of people still buy into that hype... but he was a complete and utter toxic fucker to the people around him. He managed to rip off his best and only friend before he even hit 25.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:31
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The thing I love about that chart is that it constantly reminds you that not everything in this loving park is poo poo all the time. Cause Marti is still having a great time.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:39
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The idea of Ford and Arnold using their fave bots in some sort of Host RTS game during the battle of the training town is pretty exciting. That would be like one of the most exciting thrills you could get from the park but only the co-owners could do it. I Am A Robot posted:Finally read an article that has all the correct interpretations in one place: Very good read. The gifs with the overlays help a lot Shows good, gonna be good on rewatches too. KoRMaK fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 14:41
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The people who don't understand how a person can appear perfectly normal on the outside in every action, yet still exude a sense of darkness and violence that can legitimately scare people know that's a thing right? People are social creatures designed to pick up on these things. Well, most of us anyway.
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Nov 22, 2016 14:58
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Gorilla Salad posted:MiB said he only killed Maeve's daughter a year ago. Not necessarily, but his wife's death sent him into full on powergamer mode. Elias_Maluco posted:Are we sure Ted is dead again? It didnt seemed to me, just hurt. I was guessing he and MiB were going to be taken prisoners now The Reavers or whatever are going to try to make Teddy one of them, probably. I don't think he's dead yet. It looked like that was Bernard choking Elsie (national treasure) out, but we'll see what happened there. Looks like she's dead though, maybe she's gonna be replaced with that new host Ford is making in the basement. Bernard moved really fast to get to her, though... We'll see I guess.
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Nov 22, 2016 15:04
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Remember when MiB told a guy he'd rip out his throat if he broke his immersion? I'm sure he was lovely to be married to.
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Nov 22, 2016 15:06
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Teddy was stabbed in like the right anterior shoulder. No way he's dead. Specially since the bait host was talking about bringing him back into Wyatt's fold. We saw Elsie being choked by Bernard. I wouldn't count on her being dead yet, but its possible. I also don't think Ford had Bernard do it.
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Nov 22, 2016 15:08
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I agree with their identification of Wyatt. The evidence points to her and it would make a lot of thematic sense. I also get the feeling that this season is the prelude to The Main Narrative, with origin stories for the villains, the heroes and the incidental characters. Ed Harris is on board for Season 2, what are the odds on a teaser or trailer with him saying: "I'm going to finish what I started." Do they explain what it is that they are breaking or removing from the hosts when deactivating them? They make a point of saying that the personalities are transferable, and we know that they can't completely erase all of the data on the HDD or whatever storage device they use, perhaps they are physically disconnecting it? It is a nice homage to Total Recall. Crackpot theory time. Was Arnold a real person, or was he the first personality of the Bernardbot. Ford tells him that he created him to help with the emotional aspect of the Hosts, even though we know that Ford is a big fat liar, I feel this was a rare moment of honesty before he wiped the memory away. In those (35+ years ago) days Ford was more idealistic, and not a cynical misanthropist*. So he allowed room for Arnold to grow as a personality. Arnold did the job splendidly, but his own development was affected by the suffering of the Hosts (suffering that he had programmed), he tried to do something (it isn't clear what he did, the maze isn't a physical thing) which caused the incident. A great deal of the control/cynicism/complex that Ford has in the present day is because of his mistake in allowing Arnold to much freedom. He reprogrammed Arnold as Bernard to prevent a repeat. /set host_empathy -1 *He told Theresa that he had a bet with Arnold about the nature of the quests and guests, creating 100 hopeful ones that nobody bothered with, he said he lost the bet. Was he lying? It contradicts another statement he made to Bernard about why Arnold lost the plot. So this theory could be bunk. Collateral fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 15:28
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When has Ford lied that we know of?
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Nov 22, 2016 15:39
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:When has Ford lied that we know of? Well he just said to Bernard he never made him hurt someone before, and then Bernard had a flashback of doing exactly that Also, its weird that Ford would lie to Bernard right before erasing his memory. Seems like he knows the memory wipes are leaving memories behind edit: inst remembering stuff from before memory wipes the a sign of awakening? So far Dolores and Maeve started remembering and then became awake. Now we know Teddy and Bernard can remember too, so I guess they are on their ways to become awake too. And in every case the remembering was related to intense grief, it seems to be the catalyst. Is like when MiB said to Lawrence "you are more real when you suffer" or something Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 15:45
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Boris Galerkin posted:My issue isn't the butchers doing what they are doing. It's that they are allowed to do what they are doing. I can totally get their motivation to keep going but I can't accept that what they're doing isn't being redflagged like hell. It's just absolutely not realistic at all. They didn't need permission, Maeve hacked the login before handing it to the butchers. Someone higher up probably had their password to "I love cats also dogs 69"
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Nov 22, 2016 15:53
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With the minotaur and the other people showing up, could this be a leak of Medieval or Roman world?
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Nov 22, 2016 16:04
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Elias_Maluco posted:Well he just said to Bernard he never made him hurt someone before, and then Bernard had a flashback of doing exactly that It doesn't mean that Ford made Bernard kill Elise. In fact, I can't think of a good reason for Ford to want to. He's unlikely to be transmitting on the old frequency to the hosts. I suspect that both he and Arnold have used Bernard to kill Elise. Another question is how many times has Bernard been wiped since we met him...
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Nov 22, 2016 16:10
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:It doesn't mean that Ford made Bernard kill Elise. In fact, I can't think of a good reason for Ford to want to. He's unlikely to be transmitting on the old frequency to the hosts. I suspect that both he and Arnold have used Bernard to kill Elise. Yeah, I dont know, its possible. He did seemed to be lying to me, but I cant also think of any reason for him to want Elsie dead, nor to lie to Bernard right before wiping his memory
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Nov 22, 2016 16:17
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Someone on reddit posted more circumstantial evidence that William and MIB are in different timeframes: flies on corpses. Apparently in William's scenes, none of the corpses have flies, while in MIB's scenes the corpses always have flies buzzing around them. The theory is that the present timeline has newer, organic hosts that are able to decompose while William's timeline is still using mechanical hosts that would not attract flies.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:27
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Cojawfee posted:With the minotaur and the other people showing up, could this be a leak of Medieval or Roman world?
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Nov 22, 2016 16:27
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Seph posted:Someone on reddit posted more circumstantial evidence that William and MIB are in different timeframes: flies on corpses. Apparently in William's scenes, none of the corpses have flies, while in MIB's scenes the corpses always have flies buzzing around them. The theory is that the present timeline has newer, organic hosts that are able to decompose while William's timeline is still using mechanical hosts that would not attract flies. Actually, this is a good point. If the dual timeline plot is happening, one way they could reveal it would be via William "opening up" one of the hosts and seeing the clockwork inside, which MiB mentioned doing earlier in the season.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:31
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KoRMaK posted:Has anyone playing the ARG been able to get more info about MiB? Or VIP guests? Hypothetically, if the arg lets you exploit the site to get terminal access, maybe the records would be on the delos network. I think the problem people have with this storyline (love the edit btw) is that for a pretty important storyline, the major characters involved are underwritten, except for Mauve. This can be overcome with sufficient good acting but Sylvester doesn't quite reach that. Without you breaking into a character's thought process by dialogue or acting, it just leaves an audience perplexed as to why the plot is happening in the first place.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:37
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:It doesn't mean that Ford made Bernard kill Elise. In fact, I can't think of a good reason for Ford to want to. He's unlikely to be transmitting on the old frequency to the hosts. I suspect that both he and Arnold have used Bernard to kill Elise. That's tricky, since Bernard is supposed to pass as fully human. You can't fully wipe him to factory-narrative-zero like the in-park ones--you have to be selective so he can go back to work and not have people think he's had a psychotic break from all the forgotten details. Ford overreached a bit with his wipe this time, not realizing other people knew how intimate Bernard and bloodsacrifice were.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:39
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man the more I think about that stupid loving backstory the MiB explained, the more I think it deflated a big part of him. It still sounds like such a lazy, loving-whatever backstory. "my family didnt like me for the vaguest goddamn reasons so I decided to see if I really am a bad guy"
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Nov 22, 2016 16:41
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Cojawfee posted:With the minotaur and the other people showing up, could this be a leak of Medieval or Roman world? No. The Minotaur guards the labyrinth...aka an inescapable maze. Not sure where they're going with this but it's clearly a reference to the maze actually existing. Or maybe they're already in the maze and don't know it. Which means someone's going to build wings that melt??? Lol
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Nov 22, 2016 16:41
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JossiRossi posted:The people who don't understand how a person can appear perfectly normal on the outside in every action, yet still exude a sense of darkness and violence that can legitimately scare people know that's a thing right? People are social creatures designed to pick up on these things. Well, most of us anyway. Forget it Jake, it's Goontown. Where theories that require 90% of the runtime of a show to be baldfaced lies and fourth-wall-breaking manipulations make complete sense but basic emotional character motivations are completely elusive and incomprehensible. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 16:42
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Elias_Maluco posted:yeah, but both his wife and daughter were terrified of him, she said. Why? Just cause they "feel" he is bad on the inside? And his wife so scarfed she ends up killing herself? IDK, seems kinda silly I guess MiB was just as confused about it, his reaction was then to "find out who he really is" by going into westworld and shooting a child shaped robot
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Nov 22, 2016 16:42
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My problem with the 2 techs is that, while I can believe they motives (and their dumbness), I cant accept the fact they are able to do all that they are doing with Maeve without getting caught Only talking to her on those glass rooms is risky enough, but they also took her for a walk upstairs, messed with her code (which we know its logged) and etc etc Security in the park seems really sloppy if two low rank morons can do all that with no hassle
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Nov 22, 2016 16:44
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I just don't understand how MiB could be so scary to his family unless he had been going full psycho in Westworld and they knew about it. His backstory seems to say that he didn't start dipping into the ultraviolent until after his wife died.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:52
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Probably Infected posted:No. Lawrence's daughter (creepy girl) is one of the original hosts. We haven't seen Maeve's daughter in her new role (if she has one, which I'd wager she has). Didn't we see a girl hinted to be her daughter, walking outside the saloon, her steps in slow-mo? EDIT: I like the Arnold/Bernard theory because it opens up so many interesting options, not the least of which is philosophy fight portrayed by two phenomenal actors. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 16:51
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Cojawfee posted:I just don't understand how MiB could be so scary to his family unless he had been going full psycho in Westworld and they knew about it. His backstory seems to say that he didn't start dipping into the ultraviolent until after his wife died. Because it's not the poo poo he does in Westworld that's scary. His daughter told him he was a lovely person with a bad temper who hides his problems behind a veneer of philanthropism and telling himself he's the good guy. As MiB keeps saying, he believes Westworld shows you who you really are.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:58
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Elias_Maluco posted:My problem with the 2 techs is that, while I can believe they motives (and their dumbness), I cant accept the fact they are able to do all that they are doing with Maeve without getting caught I wondered if Ford knows all about Maeve, and is happy to see where it goes.
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