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"we offer expanded education, student debt relief, an increase in the minimum wage, guaranteeing minority rights, and we will directly address climate change" young person, millenialishly "ugh but what are you going to do for me" 
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Nov 22, 2016 16:36
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override367 posted:Putting "the fear of god into them" is why we lost this thing If you think this then well, THIS is why "we" (the various political stripes of people that all hated Trump and dreaded him winning) lost this thing. Sorry. Right now we need someone with the balls to not beat around the bush. Hillary "talked trash" about Trump but never, ever truly hit him back. The next person has the luxury of attacking a sitting president, so this should be a hanging curve right across the plate politically. Going anything less than "full bore" is a losing strategy.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:38
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boner confessor posted:"we offer expanded education, student debt relief, an increase in the minimum wage, guaranteeing minority rights, and we will directly address climate change" was that the student debt relief that involved a tax credit for young entrepreneurs? i wonder why they didn't go for that
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Nov 22, 2016 16:41
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boner confessor posted:so, lie to them Judging by Obama being elected twice and still being so popular that he would have easily destroyed Trump, yeah I think so? Getting elected is a popularity contest, and as Hillary and Kerry before showed, it's hard to win a popularity contest by talking poo poo about the other guy (regardless of how lovely the other guy is!) It certainly didn't help things that we had the least popular politician in the entire country as our standard bearer. override367 fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 16:42
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theblackw0lf posted:I can't even comprehend how anyone right now could think both sides are the same There are people who believe both parties are secretly working together and this is like a stage play/kabuki/pro wrestling where some politicians pretend to be good guys and bad guys
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Nov 22, 2016 16:44
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https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/801080921181081600
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Nov 22, 2016 16:44
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i love how the argument over why hillary was poo poo on economic issues has changed from "well, millenials just don't vote consistently enough for us to bother courting your votes" to "we tried but millenials are just so flaky!!" hillary didn't really push policy so it's not surprising the media didn't cover it
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Nov 22, 2016 16:45
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Seriously, "this guy sucks," no matter how much he does in fact suck, isn't enough to win. Hillary, like John Kerry before her, had plenty to offer but went all-in on "this guy sucks" and lost to guys who sucked. The voting public knows who and what Trump is at this point. Even with his Presidency being a total disaster the Democrats are going to need something more than "this guy sucks."
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Nov 22, 2016 16:46
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True, HRC being the wife of the guy who built third way politics made alot of people not trust her.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:47
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TheScott2K posted:Seriously, "this guy sucks," no matter how much he does in fact suck, isn't enough to win. Hillary, like John Kerry before her, had plenty to offer but went all-in on "this guy sucks" and lost to guys who sucked. The voting public knows who and what Trump is at this point. Even with his Presidency being a total disaster the Democrats are going to need something more than "this guy sucks." I actually sat with my mouth agape when hillary directed us to her website to learn her plans she had 80 million+ people watching, loving make your case now! quit talking about the nazi carrot! Instead of responding to Make America Great Man with "no you won't! you suck!", tell us that "America is already great, and we will make it even better!", if you can slip in how you plan to do it, but more important is just telling us things you want to do
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Nov 22, 2016 16:47
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TheScott2K posted:Seriously, "this guy sucks," no matter how much he does in fact suck, isn't enough to win. Hillary, like John Kerry before her, had plenty to offer but went all-in on "this guy sucks" and lost to guys who sucked. The voting public knows who and what Trump is at this point. Even with his Presidency being a total disaster the Democrats are going to need something more than "this guy sucks."  i'm pretty negative towards hillary's campaign and even i think she would've won if she had messaging beyond "trump sucks"
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Nov 22, 2016 16:48
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Maybe the media would have covered more issues if they hadn't had EMAILS to fall back on repeatedly.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:48
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TheScott2K posted:Seriously, "this guy sucks," no matter how much he does in fact suck, isn't enough to win. Hillary, like John Kerry before her, had plenty to offer but went all-in on "this guy sucks" and lost to guys who sucked. The voting public knows who and what Trump is at this point. Even with his Presidency being a total disaster the Democrats are going to need something more than "this guy sucks." 2008 was basically "these guys suck" though. It helped to have a nice economic meltdown to illustrate the point but a large amount of Obama's campaign was "these guys suck, let's throw them all out."
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Nov 22, 2016 16:49
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override367 posted:I actually sat with my mouth agape when hillary directed us to her website to learn her plans Pushing the website was the stupidest loving poo poo and I still can't believe that with a captive audience she did that and deferred to her internet fact checkers instead of actually engaging.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:50
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Whoever said that he'd lose all interest in Clinton once he had successfully displayed dominance was absolutely right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJLUz0eZE-g
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Nov 22, 2016 16:50
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FAUXTON posted:2008 was basically "these guys suck" though. It helped to have a nice economic meltdown to illustrate the point but a large amount of Obama's campaign was "these guys suck, let's throw them all out." That is not the part of the 2008 campaign anyone remembers. It was Hope and Change.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:50
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FAUXTON posted:2008 was basically "these guys suck" though. It helped to have a nice economic meltdown to illustrate the point but a large amount of Obama's campaign was "these guys suck, let's throw them all out." You're missing the huge "I'm your savior, be inspired by me" component of Obama. What he had to offer people was pretty vague but it was exactly what they wanted.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:51
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FAUXTON posted:2008 was basically "these guys suck" though. It helped to have a nice economic meltdown to illustrate the point but a large amount of Obama's campaign was "these guys suck, let's throw them all out." obama had plans to fix the suckage. public option, closing guantanamo bay, etc. the reasons he said bush sucked were all related to policy too.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:51
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haveblue posted:Whoever said that he'd lose all interest in Clinton once he had successfully displayed dominance was absolutely right. I think its more he realized he'd open Pandora's box even further if he pursued that case.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:52
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At no point did Obama (or McCain, or Romney for that matter) waste breath on the other person being unsuitable as a human being for the Presidency.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:53
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CommieGIR posted:I think its more he realized he'd open Pandora's box even further if he pursued that case. Yeah, the obvious answer when it comes to Trump is that he made a self-aware and nuanced decision.... TheScott2K posted:At no point did Obama (or McCain, or Romney for that matter) waste breath on the other person being unsuitable as a human being for the Presidency. Yeah, maybe not, but they weren't campaign against loving Trump who is literally unsuitable for the presidency.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:54
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override367 posted:I actually sat with my mouth agape when hillary directed us to her website to learn her plans Young people like websites, right? That'll make them think I'm really a "hip grandma!" PS TXT HLLRY YR MEMS!
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Nov 22, 2016 16:54
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TheScott2K posted:At no point did Obama (or McCain, or Romney for that matter) waste breath on the other person being unsuitable as a human being for the Presidency. Fortunately, none of them were unsuitable. It's nice to have an opponent who won't set fire to the country if he wins.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:55
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FAUXTON posted:2008 was basically "these guys suck" though. It helped to have a nice economic meltdown to illustrate the point but a large amount of Obama's campaign was "these guys suck, let's throw them all out." Obama also had a prime time special where he outlined his policy in several key areas.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:Fortunately, none of them were unsuitable. It's nice to have an opponent who won't set fire to the country if he wins. The thing is, not everyone defined Trump by the worst things he ever said. Hell if they were actually engaged enough to watch an entire Trump speech at random, they'd more often than not say "wait he didn't mention women, mexicans, or muslims at all, he talked about how jobs are poo poo and crime is bad and how the Saudis are blowing up children with bombs we gave them, this isn't like what the media says at all" - because most of his rally speeches weren't about muslims or mexicans I'm not sure if this played any part at all, but it's just something I noticed (the liberals I know in real life never watched a single Trump rally all the way through) Yes yes, we all know that Trump isn't just doing it for show, he said all of those horrible things that got repeated, and he believes most of them. He's a stream of consciousness idiot with strong racist and fascist tendencies. But we should have taken him utterly seriously as a candidate from the second he won the primary because a lot of people did in spite of that. override367 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 16:58
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BarbarianElephant posted:Young people like websites, right? That'll make them think I'm really a "hip grandma!" PS TXT HLLRY YR MEMS! Tell me about how you feel about the threat of fascism overthrowing our democracy in three emojis or less
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Nov 22, 2016 17:01
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Boon posted:Yeah, maybe not, but they weren't campaign against loving Trump who is literally unsuitable for the presidency. problem is that people don't care that your opponent is unsuitable according to you (cause seriously, when is a dem gonna say a republican is suitable for the presidency over them?) you have to convince people that your candidate is the better choice. it's not enough to say your opponent is a bad choice
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Nov 22, 2016 17:01
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override367 posted:The thing is, not everyone defined Trump by the worst things he ever said. Hell if they were actually engaged enough to watch an entire Trump speech, they'd more often than not say "wait he didn't mention women, mexicans, or muslims at all, he talked about how jobs are poo poo and crime is bad and how the Saudis are blowing up children with bombs we gave them, this isn't like what the media says at all" I did, I watched Trump's speeches all the way through more than once. Why shouldn't him saying literally nothing but bemoaning this, that, or the other thing and then occasionally punctuating it with some horrible, heinous poo poo shouldn't be covered as "Trump says horrible, heinous poo poo at rally"? Boon fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 17:01
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Hillary won the election
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Nov 22, 2016 17:01
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override367 posted:The thing is, not everyone defined Trump by the worst things he ever said. Hell if they were actually engaged enough to watch an entire Trump speech, they'd more often than not say "wait he didn't mention women, mexicans, or muslims at all, he talked about how jobs are poo poo and crime is bad and how the Saudis are blowing up children with bombs we gave them, this isn't like what the media says at all" For those of us that live in realityland, you didn't need to watch it all the way through. His version of the jobs are poo poo ends with "and so I will wave my magical fairy wand and make it all better and totally not crash the economy or slash taxes for the rich," his crime is bad shtick was literally the same dogwhistles about the urban black population we've been listening to for decades and his stuff about the Saudis was just feeding into the same narrative about how "they" are dangerous over there and how we can't allow "them" to come here. That's the problem. Trump took the same old Southern Strategy, sprayed some air freshener and put a bow on it and shipped it out to the moronic American public and the Hillary campaign completely miscalculated as to how to handle that and paid for it.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:01
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Also, Clinton campaigning on anything different than "I'm not Trump" would mean shed have to actually be for something that wasn't "enrich wall street and give meaningless platitudes for minorities"
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Nov 22, 2016 17:02
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Boon posted:Yeah, the obvious answer when it comes to Trump is that he made a self-aware and nuanced decision....
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Nov 22, 2016 17:03
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Boon posted:I did, I watched Trump's speeches all the way through more than once. I think covering the worst things he said was fine! I don't think that assuming that everyone who supported him would define him by those things was fine. I'm just musing that if you pick one of his rallies at random, you have a decent chance of hearing very little of the truly objectionable content (although you will hear ignorance of how politics and the world works in literally every single one of them) *emphasis on everyone, again, you'll get no argument from me that vast legions of his voters are utterly irredeemable people
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Nov 22, 2016 17:03
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AdmiralViscen posted:Hillary won the election You know a lot of people are pissing about the EC this time around but it literally worked as intended this time around. Hillary ran up the numbers in the more populous states and ignored the rust belt as opposed to trying to work on behalf of the rust belt
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Nov 22, 2016 17:04
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AdmiralViscen posted:Hillary won the election big if true
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Nov 22, 2016 17:04
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CommieGIR posted:I think its more he realized he'd open Pandora's box even further if he pursued that case. No, it's loving textbook behavior for a narcissist. Which is why a million people predicted it even though he spent months screaming lock her up. She threatened him, he was brutal. He wins, he's conciliatory. Christ he's the type of person he'd offer her a job if he thought it'd help him out. Not one with a lot of power, obviously, she's a loser. But some pity gently caress of a position? Absolutely. They are friends.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:04
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Business Gorillas posted:You know a lot of people are pissing about the EC this time around but it literally worked as intended this time around. You're comically stupid. The Electoral College was specifically designed to put somebody like Hillary in power over somebody like Trump. The people who wrote the Constitution would loathe the people in the Rust Belt.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:05
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override367 posted:The thing is, not everyone defined Trump by the worst things he ever said. Hell if they were actually engaged enough to watch an entire Trump speech at random, they'd more often than not say "wait he didn't mention women, mexicans, or muslims at all, he talked about how jobs are poo poo and crime is bad and how the Saudis are blowing up children with bombs we gave them, this isn't like what the media says at all" - because most of his rally speeches weren't about muslims or mexicans Your anecdotal evidence is worth about as much as what I left in the toilet this morning, I'm sorry to say. While it's true a lot of liberals missed this your own personal experience is in no way representative of what went down. I am a liberal and I went to a rally when it stopped in my town, and saw other liberals there too. And yeah, he mentioned BOTH Muslims (extreme vetting) and Mexicans (BUILD THAT WALL! BUILD THAT WALL!), fancy that! Not all liberals fit the picture you're painting here, is all I mean. The advantage is in 4 years the tattered remains of this country WILL be Trump's fault, and any opponent is given a gift of being able to run against HIM being the existing "establishment." Lightning Knight posted:For those of us that live in realityland, you didn't need to watch it all the way through. His version of the jobs are poo poo ends with "and so I will wave my magical fairy wand and make it all better and totally not crash the economy or slash taxes for the rich," his crime is bad shtick was literally the same dogwhistles about the urban black population we've been listening to for decades and his stuff about the Saudis was just feeding into the same narrative about how "they" are dangerous over there and how we can't allow "them" to come here. Also this.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:05
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FactsAreUseless posted:He's going to be President, I think that makes him suitable. No?
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Nov 22, 2016 17:05
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Also lmao at the people in the primary who rolled their eyes at Bernie for being too unrealistic but now they want to change the EC while the party that benefits most from it is in power It isn't anyone itt but it's been a thing I've been seeing lately
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Nov 22, 2016 17:06
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