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Karl Sharks posted:trump supporters wanted authoritarianism above all else "I'm going to bring your jobs back" is about as populist a message as it gets, dude.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:27
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But whatever, no need for semantic arguments: Trump and Obama both got downtrodden people to believe that they could help and Hillary didn't. Because she was very bad at being a good candidate.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:29
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Agean90 posted:imo the reason trump won was less due to his own virtues and instead because of mass incompetance by the Hillary campaign, and that people are better off looking at what the she did wrong (everything) and critically examining trumps campaign for what he did right rather than assume trump is the wave of the future I feel like a ton of people always look over that there can be any positive of Trump campaign to learn from and never actually listened to Trumps speeches. Instead they just picked out random online lines and mocked Trump/his supports and did not actually pay attention to what was being said. This guy did and wrote a pretty good thought piece about it: http://nonsite.org/editorial/listening-to-trump Take for example: quote:At almost every turn the liberal pundits misunderstood, or did not hear, what Trump was saying. After his win in the Nevada Caucus Trump said: “We won with highly-educated, we won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated! We’re the smartest people, we’re the most loyal people.” Liberals lampooned him, assuming that he had insulted part of his base. And not all of Trump campaign speeches were just hate. He reached out, he felt their pain, described their problems, and told them he was going to fix it. quote:What was it that the voters saw in Trump? The mainstream media version of Trump was as a crazy and brutal pig—not entirely untrue. The words “huge” and “tremendous” were leitmotifs in mocking Trump’s limited vocabulary. But his stump speech lexicon also included “loyalty” “win” “pledge” “beautiful” and “love”—lots and lots of “love.” Dems have to learn how to be better and reach out from 2020. Obama did it, Bill did it, the next one has too as well.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:30
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iospace posted:https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/801080921181081600 Might As Well Not Have Any Policies At All Then, Agrees Krugman I'm really tired of this "oh it was the media, nothin you can do about that crummy ol' media, the media basically decide the president now and there's nothing to do about it  " narrativeIf the media is that important and your opponent has figured out how to game it, you game that fucker right back. That's what politics is. e: other things I am really tired of include Paul Krugman
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Nov 22, 2016 18:31
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Karl Sharks posted:trump supporters wanted authoritarianism above all else people did not like it when he said that. quote:The results indicate Trump should probably avoid statements such as the one he made during his nomination acceptance speech, when he said, “I alone can fix” the nation’s problems. More than eight in 10 likely voters say instead a leader should consult with many to accomplish major goals, while just 12 percent say they prefer a leader to formulate ideas alone and give direction on what to do and how to do it. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-08-10/bloomberg-politics-national-poll
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Nov 22, 2016 18:33
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Fidel Castronaut posted:"I'm going to bring your jobs back" is about as populist a message as it gets, dude. i'm not saying he didn't have a populist message, but it is wrapped in a veil of being a strongman. the most accurate predictor of support for trump is the voter's authoritarianism
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Nov 22, 2016 18:35
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comingafteryouall posted:a canny politician could look at, say, central PA (an area that Clinton got decimated in) and say to people: lmao at how you used Sheetz instead of Wawa
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Nov 22, 2016 18:36
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comingafteryouall posted:people did not like it when he said that. lol if you trust polls still
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Nov 22, 2016 18:38
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Karl Sharks posted:...because if you look at hillary's policies and listen to her speak, she did what you said? so it's about getting more people to hear it? Give me three examples. If you want to be really ambitious, give me one from a debate and one from an ad among the three. Make sure to remember the audience in this example. Media rebroadcasting or not, this is trivial to do for Trump so I imagine you should have no difficulty if Hillary was actually pushing it.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:40
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loquacius posted:Might As Well Not Have Any Policies At All Then, Agrees Krugman I don't feel like he's accounting for it having been, what was it, ~150k votes that flipped the rust belt? These were rather particular demographics at play.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:40
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etalian posted:lmao at how you used Sheetz instead of Wawa Wawa isn't central pa
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Nov 22, 2016 18:40
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Fidel Castronaut posted:But whatever, no need for semantic arguments: Trump and Obama both got downtrodden people to believe that they could help and Hillary didn't. Because she was very bad at being a good candidate. I want to have this engraved on a twenty foot stone pillar and displayed at the entrance to the DNC headquarters.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:43
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Tatum Girlparts posted:For one, 'hope' isn't a universal thing. I mean, you can be a smug dick trying to explain the concept of 'things good' to me all you want but if you think Trump's brand of hope and Obama's are the same then what election did you watch? They were a lot more similar to each other than Hillary's messaging was to either. If you seriously don't see the similarities, I honestly question what election you watched. Also, same as for Karl, if it was all just the fault of that damned media not rebroadcasting her messages, why don't you actually demonstrate by sharing some of the messages of hope she tried to make to middle america that were ignored. Hope is a universal thing, but the things that people need hope for obviously vary so yeah you gotta have different messages for different people - Obama and Trump both offered very similar core messages of hope to the people that lost Hillary this election, and she (as far as I can tell) did not. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 18:46 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 18:43
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etalian posted:lmao at how you used Sheetz instead of Wawa central PA is Sheetz country now get out of here with your big city Wawa before we make you leave
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Nov 22, 2016 18:44
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I don't think Trump went a single speech without hammering on a message of hope. His primary campaign slogan was a message of hope and change. If you want me to do the same for examples from him, I could do it all day. Obama was the same way. Hillary's primary slogan and most frequent message, as we all know, was one of identity and allegiance with a hint of shame. I really, honestly want to know where the hope was if it was something you feel she was pushing so hard the media is the one to blame for it not getting out.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:49
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:saaaaaaaaame I don't know yet, I'm weighing exactly how mad I want to come off and how much I want to blame complacent weak willed Democrats for the current state of the nation. Somewhere between "extremely" and "insanely"
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Nov 22, 2016 18:50
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Well What Now posted:I want to have this engraved on a twenty foot stone pillar and displayed at the entrance to the DNC headquarters. Every single DNC staffer says "but the media, though" twice a day while walking into and out of work; doesn't pay it any more mind while driving home, adds "also, comey" as a purely reflexive involuntary action
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Nov 22, 2016 18:51
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i love sheetz but i love wawa more
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Nov 22, 2016 18:51
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Call Senator Lindsey Graham's office at (202) 224-5972, push 2 if you get the recording. Tell the staff member "I support Senator Graham's investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election, and possible involvement in the effort to elect Donald Trump."
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Nov 22, 2016 18:53
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/801121588192149505
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Nov 22, 2016 19:00
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I don't care if Manhattan was 90% Democrat, when you can't get loving Michigan and Pennsylvania to stay Democratic, you ran a lovely campaign.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:01
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get this weak poo poo outta here Joementum
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Nov 22, 2016 19:02
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GlyphGryph posted:I don't think Trump went a single speech without hammering on a message of hope. His primary campaign slogan was a message of hope and change. If you want me to do the same for examples from him, I could do it all day. Obama was the same way. Trump's message was identity too! God drat man why is it only 'identity politics' when minorities do it? Trump's entire message was identity! We'll be one America under one god blah blah blah, for gently caress's sake the retard ran for like a straight week saying 'we'll be saying merry christmas again'! He constantly talked about how those bad hombres and Muslims weren't integrating into America and how others were constantly trying to gently caress with our identity (as straight white guys). If you genuinely think that populism is such a meaningless totem that you can do all that but also throw in 'also I'll bring those jobs back from those loving Mexicans and orientals' you get to say 'uh excuse me it was a message of hope actually' then you live in a bigger bubble than any hillary voter you smugly look down on.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:02
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Al! posted:look how fuckin hard is it to just say "i want justice" Apparently unless you name every single minority group explicitly and never mention any majority group ever, you are being racist/sexist/-ist.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:04
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Trump's message was identity too! God drat man why is it only 'identity politics' when minorities do it? Trump's entire message was identity! We'll be one America under one god blah blah blah, for gently caress's sake the retard ran for like a straight week saying 'we'll be saying merry christmas again'! He constantly talked about how those bad hombres and Muslims weren't integrating into America and how others were constantly trying to gently caress with our identity (as straight white guys). Deflection deflection deflection. Refusal to engage. Completely ignoring what I'm actually saying in favour of attacking strawmen. Utter detachment from reality. And then completely mischaracterizing my argument to boot. Put up or shut up: Give me Hillary's messages of hope to the folks whose votes she needed that she didn't get. Give me three examples. That's not too much to ask. Then maybe we can talk until you decide to regress to more of this bullshit. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 19:13 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 19:06
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Ok, I got reelected to the Arizona State committee. I'm getting some support from somewhat influential people and they're asking me to think about running for chairman. I don't think I'm qualified or have the time for that, but I think I can push for a commitment that whoever does get elected to vote for Ellison. At a state level, I think it's totally reasonable that any Democrat in the state should be able to open the State website, click a "Get involved" button, type in your address, and have the location and time of your next meeting. If it means we need to get a Cisco WebEx subscription and do teleconferences where people can call in, then maybe we need to commit the money for that. Last week I was trying to help someone in Anthem find their meeting, it was up in Flagstaff. It's a 2 hour drive each way. That's not acceptable. I think every single district ought to have a professional looking website, an email address and a Facebook page. I think someone mentioned that if it was done at a high level, they could make a template and just paste that all over the country. That's such an obvious idea that it's stupid that it isn't already done. This stuff all costs money, but it seems like the stuff we've been spending on before isn't working. On a national level, the thing I said before should still apply. Click "Get involved" and have the time and date for the next meeting, no matter where you live.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:12
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GlyphGryph posted:Deflection deflection deflection. Refusal to engage. Completely ignoring what I'm actually saying in favour of attacking strawmen. Utter detachment from reality. And then completely mischaracterizing my argument to boot. Her entire plan to fix coal country was to provide education and retraining for the expanded green industries that would come, that would also be made in America and engage our industrial production, I feel like that should be a twofer since that hits two different groups but let's call it one. Her plans to expand the ACA to include things like medication price gouging prevention and all that poo poo pretty much would have helped everyone in the entire country. Her k-12 plan involved massive rebuilding efforts in both urban and rural school districts that are in need of that poo poo, as well as using the Build America Bonds program to incentivize these places being fitted with more efficient and green energy and upgraded classrooms and all rather than just putting a fresh coat of paint on a school.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:12
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Trump's message was identity too! God drat man why is it only 'identity politics' when minorities do it? Trump's entire message was identity! We'll be one America under one god blah blah blah, for gently caress's sake the retard ran for like a straight week saying 'we'll be saying merry christmas again'! He constantly talked about how those bad hombres and Muslims weren't integrating into America and how others were constantly trying to gently caress with our identity (as straight white guys). False promises are still hope if you buy into them. Trump blaming the problems of the lower class on nebulous others and promising to do something about them is still a message of hope to his audience. Trump deriding current politicians whose policies and actions have done nothing to help rural America and promising to 'drain the swamp' is still a message of hope. It doesn't matter if it's delivered in hateful and spiteful tones: Trump sold his audience the hope that electing him would make things better for them. Clinton did no such thing.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:13
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redneck nazgul posted:False promises are still hope if you buy into them. right but how many of the kinds of people who's hope comes in terms of 'the goddamn chinamen are conspiring' would support someone who's message of hope would be something like 'we need to improve our social programs so people don't go hungry' and poo poo?
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Nov 22, 2016 19:14
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Her entire plan to fix coal country was to provide education and retraining for the expanded green industries that would come, that would also be made in America and engage our industrial production, I feel like that should be a twofer since that hits two different groups but let's call it one. This wasn't what I asked for. I mean it's not even close. Are you just... Is this is an admission that are simply incapable of understanding the conversation other people are having, or an admission that Hillary didn't offer a message of hope? I honestly can't tell. In case it's the first, give me a minute I'll try to find a way to spell it out in a way you can't misunderstand.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:15
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Tatum Girlparts posted:right but how many of the kinds of people who's hope comes in terms of 'the goddamn chinamen are conspiring' would support someone who's message of hope would be something like 'we need to improve our social programs so people don't go hungry' and poo poo? The hope wasn't "the goddamn chinamen are conspiring", the hope was "Trump will do something to stop the chinamen because Obama and Washington sure as gently caress aren't going to, they didn't even bother helping me get my blue collar job back and also now I have to pay Obamacare taxes, Trump said he'd get rid of those too". Stop conflating Trump's actual words and the understood message. Taking him literally but not seriously is exactly why Clinton hosed up and didn't do poo poo for Michigan/Wisconsin.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:16
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Her entire plan to fix coal country was to provide education and retraining for the expanded green industries that would come, that would also be made in America and engage our industrial production, I feel like that should be a twofer since that hits two different groups but let's call it one. But she didn't spend enough time talking about this. Yes, I saw a few ads touting her work on children's education and health care, but most of them were just montages of Trump saying lovely things. She needed to go into Michigan, for example, and say "we're going to rebuild your infrastructure and make sure Flint never, ever happens again". She needed to go to Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and spend time talking to seniors out there about price gouging on medication. She needed to go to Ohio into suburban counties and talk about how lovely the quality of public education is--and how she was going to fix it. She didn't do any of this. All I heard week after week was "Donald Trump is a poo poo human being with garbage views!" Relying on Trump to be lovely week in and week out worked, for the most part, but when your whole campaign strategy revolves around your opponent loving up repeatedly, you have done something wrong, even if your opponent is Donald Trump. And no one is talking about trying to charm away Trump voters, because his hardcore base was McCain's and Romney's hardcore base--they will never vote for a Democrat. Positivity motivates the Obama coalition--and the Obama coalition is what will be needed for any Democrat in the future to win the White House. Fritz Coldcockin has issued a correction as of 19:20 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 19:16
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Her entire plan to fix coal country was to provide education and retraining for the expanded green industries that would come, that would also be made in America and engage our industrial production, I feel like that should be a twofer since that hits two different groups but let's call it one. Okay, so, let's try to clarify. What I asked for: 3 examples of Hillary pushing a message of hope. What you provided: Things that were not actually messages, that were not examples of hillary pushing them, things that do not have anything to actually do with hope What you need to provide: 3 instances of Hillary or an ad representing her where describing or at least stating the existence of a better situation or future for this audience as a result of her getting elected. It does not have to be complex. In fact, the fewer words the better - we're talking about messaging here, not strategy - goals, not implementation details. Themes. Give me a direct quote, preferably sourced. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 19:26 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 19:21
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GlyphGryph posted:Okay, so, let's try to clarify. how do you loving define this though? Like, for me and many other moments like this https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-gun-violence-black-lives-matter_us_563881d3e4b00a4d2e0bb83f where she met with the mothers of children who died to violence of police and a racist idiot who the law was made to protect and made multiple very public declarations of support for them and their cause was a 'hopeful' moment but yea I assume a lot of Trump voters disagree there. What exactly do you want other than nebulous 'hope'?
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Nov 22, 2016 19:26
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GlyphGryph posted:Okay, so, let's try to clarify. Here's 1: "Universal healthcare will never ever happen!" *applause* Oh wait no she did the exact opposite of providing hope.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:26
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just check my website
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Nov 22, 2016 19:27
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you can find all my hope and change on my sharezine 1 share=1 economic stimulus
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Nov 22, 2016 19:29
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Fullhouse posted:just check my website be sure to tweet your response in three emojis
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Nov 22, 2016 19:29
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Free College Education (For Entrepreneurs)
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Nov 22, 2016 19:29
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redneck nazgul posted:be sure to tweet your response in three emojis 🔥💲🔥
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Nov 22, 2016 19:30
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