|
I don't know that "your first FF is the one you love best" is entirely true. FF4 (FF2 US) was my first and I loved it and still do, so there is some truth to that, but 6 still blew me away and then 7 blew me away even more. 7 was the first game I played that had cinematic story telling and crazy visual effects. It was my first exposure to cyberpunk. Beyond that, Cloud's story really built on the existential crisis stuff that existed in 4 and 6 and it was a somewhat different take on the classic hero's story that I personally hadn't seen before. It probably helps that I was 13 so I was going through the usual early teen existential crisis so I connected with the story more than I would have if I was 20 or something. This was true for a lot of my friends at the time too. We all had started with either FF1 or FF4 but 7 was the one we all talked about early in high school.
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
FF7 is not a good game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I honestly would have been fine with a retranslation of FF7 rather than a full remake. I'd say Squenix has been and is wisely keeping quiet about FF7R until XV is well and truly out the door. Why cut off your nose to spite your face by distracting people from your shiny new entry to the franchise, when you can promote the hell out of that shiny new entry and then once it's launched (finally!), then drum up interest all over again for 7R? Getting people excited by more news about the FFVII remake would just cut chunks out of XV's reception. Better to wait.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
I doubt the stats for ff15 clothes will matter as much as your understanding of the battle system and skills compared to turn-based FF's. There's incredibly powerful armor in Dark Souls but no one wears the good poo poo because they can just roll around and parry all day to make up for it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:48
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:FF7 is not a good game. Truth. It's a great game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:48
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:FF7 is not a good game. It is a great game, true. edit: gently caress
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:49
|
|
|
They just don't make games like this anymore
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:I don't know that "your first FF is the one you love best" is entirely true. FF4 (FF2 US) was my first and I loved it and still do, so there is some truth to that, but 6 still blew me away and then 7 blew me away even more. 7 was the first game I played that had cinematic story telling and crazy visual effects. It was my first exposure to cyberpunk. Beyond that, Cloud's story really built on the existential crisis stuff that existed in 4 and 6 and it was a somewhat different take on the classic hero's story that I personally hadn't seen before. It probably helps that I was 13 so I was going through the usual early teen existential crisis so I connected with the story more than I would have if I was 20 or something. Yeah, I sometimes get annoyed at that truism being bandied about like it's some unshakable truth. Oh, no, FFVII isn't actually good, silly you, you just played it first, when you were impressionable. Now, the games that came out when I was young and impressionable, well, The statement would lose some of its punch if it was broadened to "any FF you played during your formative years and depending on your emotional development and state of mind at time of playing" though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:Truth. Since you just wrapped up IX, which do you prefer between it and VII? Sorry, as I mentioned earlier VII and IX were my first two FF games and I always compare them. They're very different pieces of fiction. One continuing to take the series in a bold new direction and the other being equally daring by going backwards in a superficial sense but still showing how Square had continued to mature in terms of writing ability.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
The first ones being your favorite can't be true because I played ffiv first and it's like my least favorite in game in the franchise. I then went on and not care for ffvi, mystic quest, legends 3, before playing and falling in love with Vii.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
For once, I agree with NikkolasKing on a FF related thing: I liked IX a lot more as a kid, but as an adult going back I really appreciate how pioneering VII was in its storytelling and what it was trying to do, even if the translation kind of hosed up a lot of it. I still love IX, of course, but I definitely don't think VII is overrated; I just think it's extremely weird how there's this collective vision of what VII and its characters were like that isn't how most of them actually are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Panic! at Nabisco posted:For once, I agree with NikkolasKing on a FF related thing: I liked IX a lot more as a kid, but as an adult going back I really appreciate how pioneering VII was in its storytelling and what it was trying to do, even if the translation kind of hosed up a lot of it. I still love IX, of course, but I definitely don't think VII is overrated; I just think it's extremely weird how there's this collective vision of what VII and its characters were like that isn't how most of them actually are. It's especially ironic considering what the actual deal with Cloud is. Like him, everyone has twisted memories of Final Fantasy VII including myself until I replayed it about 5 years ago. In a weird kind of way, Final Fantasy VII has become the most meta of the games in the series.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Panic! at Nabisco posted:For once, I agree with NikkolasKing on a FF related thing: I liked IX a lot more as a kid, but as an adult going back I really appreciate how pioneering VII was in its storytelling and what it was trying to do, even if the translation kind of hosed up a lot of it. I still love IX, of course, but I definitely don't think VII is overrated; I just think it's extremely weird how there's this collective vision of what VII and its characters were like that isn't how most of them actually are. Yep, there's no doubt FFIX told a very good story but I still think it was a "safe" story. FFVII was trying to do something very different. For example, when you compare Zidane to Cloud, Cloud is vastly more interesting in my view. He's probably the part of VII I've come to appreciate the most over the years. His struggle and character development really makes him stand out from his fellow FF MC's. Meanwhile, Zidane is likable enough but he is like Zack. For a while, Zack was stupid popular and so many people I knew raved about how much better he is than Cloud. Why? I guess because Zidane and Zack smile a lot. Good for them. Fortunately,, Cloud is not Squall. He is not a sullen brick of personality. He's a very layered character with happy and somber moments.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:11
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Since you just wrapped up IX, which do you prefer between it and VII? Still IX by far, but I'm not the best person to ask since I'm not really a big fan of VII to begin with. Still not going to deny it's a great game that did a lot for the genre.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:14
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:It's especially ironic considering what the actual deal with Cloud is. Like him, everyone has twisted memories of Final Fantasy VII including myself until I replayed it about 5 years ago. In a weird kind of way, Final Fantasy VII has become the most meta of the games in the series. Not like twisted memories of games is limited to FFVII. For example: NikkolasKing posted:Fortunately,, Cloud is not Squall. He is not a sullen brick of personality. He's a very layered character with happy and somber moments.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:21
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:Not like twisted memories of games is limited to FFVII. For example: He's right though. People seem to dismiss Cloud as an "emo git", yet that's Squall, the guy who freaks out about being talked about in the past tense, throws a tantrum and spends most of the game wanting to brood alone because of something that happened in his past that he can't even remember happening whilst he constantly monologues about how nobody understands him. That's not Cloud, in fact Cloud only acts cold and "tough" in the Midgar section of the game. Aerith knows that this is a front which is why she teases him and the cracks begin to appear in his persona. The real Cloud is a total dork who is insecure about his own accomplishments and really just wants to impress other people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:25
|
|
|
I feel lime your first FF being your favorite is largely correct, but it might color what you look for from the rest of the series. My first was the GBA remakes of I and II. Now I maintain that II is better than its reputation and is a really fun game (and you can argue that it being ao weird compared to I led to them making all the numbered FF games so different) but neither of them are my favorite. My favorite is V, my third FF (although not my third-beaten) which took the theoretical freedom and strengths of that first FF game and turned it into something really fun. Those early games for me leaned far more on mechanics and personalized playstyle than story, though, as well as being pretty hard. Which might be why I don't like the rigid party structure of IV, the relative easiness of VI and took a while to warm up to the story-heavy VII. Final Fantasy didn't peak at the first ones I played, but they codified what I look for in them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:He's right though. People seem to dismiss Cloud as an "emo git", yet that's Squall, the guy who freaks out about being talked about in the past tense, throws a tantrum and spends most of the game wanting to brood alone because of something that happened in his past that he can't even remember happening whilst he constantly monologues about how nobody understands him. That's not Cloud, in fact Cloud only acts cold and "tough" in the Midgar section of the game. Aerith knows that this is a front which is why she teases him and the cracks begin to appear in his persona. The real Cloud is a total dork who is insecure about his own accomplishments and really just wants to impress other people. This is exactly what I meant by people misremembering poo poo about games. In this case, misremembering and boiling down a character arc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:This is exactly what I meant by people misremembering poo poo about games. In this case, misremembering and boiling down a character arc. Well I think I have a decent recollection of FFVIII's plot and events. I understand what they were going for with Squall. I just think it failed, miserably. They wanted to make him deep what with his nonstop internal monologues and seeing him come out of his shell but it's not exactly handled well. Squall is a scared little boy in a teenager's body and he isn't a complete jerk. But how does everyone else know this? Why does everyone else keep showering him with affection when he's nothing but an rear end in a top hat to them? (similarly why is he Mr. Leader in spite of having no leadership skills?) His relationship with Rinoa is not exactly universally praised for much the same reason. There are "cracks" in his shell, like if you pick to say I missed you too when Rinoa gets back from the Missile Base. That's actually very sweet. However moments like that are few and far between. Say you gently caress up the date segment by having them play Eyes on Me instead of the jig (what the gently caress was up with that? I have a vague theory but it's not really explained). Say you tell Rinoa you never missed her. Basically, Squall has been nothing but an abusive jerk to her all game. Then she goes into a coma and suddenly he can't live without her? I also resent how Rinoa's merely there to be his love interest. You might recall she had her own character arc and stuff. But apparently she doesn't need to reconcile with her father because she has a boyfriend now. Very good message to send to the teenagers playing the game. Totally doesn't assassinate her character and reduce her to a arm ornament for Squall. Yeah, I don't like VIII much. Sorry. It had good elements, like Seifer, but I cannot stand Squall.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
Squall was an interesting character, and a good study in why you don't make shy/socially awkward main characters: people just dislike them and want to interpret their actions in the worst possible way. He's literally a socially awkward but good looking teenager, but the way people talk about him it's like he's actively obnoxious and horrible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:25
|
|
|
FF8 would have been cool and good if you swapped Seifer Fuijin and Raijin with Squall Zell and Seplhie. You get a protagonist squad with personality and interactions and the whole 'Villain rival' thing makes way more sense when it's Squall joining the time compression plan so nobody can talk about him in the past tense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
thorsilver posted:That's true, but to be fair FF4 was the first FF that even *had* characters instead of just blank slates, so IMO they did some pretty cool things with that the first time out. FFTA2's sales weren't very good for the size of the DS userbase. Tactics Ogre sold over 500k copies vs the 600k or so for FFTA2 and considering the gap between PSP and DS ownership that isn't very good and neither are something SE can justify when it can instead spend a decade pissing away money on FFXV and the tire fire that was FFXIV 1.0. Even if SE wanted to make more FFT games (or Ogre Battle) they'd probably end up being freemium mobile garbage. Like what Capcom did for Breath of Fire 6. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:FF8 would have been cool and good if you swapped Seifer Fuijin and Raijin with Squall Zell and Seplhie. You get a protagonist squad with personality and interactions and the whole 'Villain rival' thing makes way more sense when it's Squall joining the time compression plan so nobody can talk about him in the past tense. I didn't know I wanted this but I do!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:30
|
|
|
Panic! at Nabisco posted:Squall was an interesting character, and a good study in why you don't make shy/socially awkward main characters: people just dislike them and want to interpret their actions in the worst possible way. He's literally a socially awkward but good looking teenager, but the way people talk about him it's like he's actively obnoxious and horrible. Squall is actively obnoxious and horrible at first. He's a dick to other people and has a lot of internal dialogue which makes him look kinda lovely. It is just that he grows away from that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:30
|
|
|
I can't believe I never made the connection between Necron in IX and Cloud of Darkness in III before. They're basically the same being, manipulating someone whose despair of being mortal is driving them to destroy the crystal(s) which controll all life (Xande/Kuja) so they can return everything to the void.ImpAtom posted:Squall is actively obnoxious and horrible at first. He's a dick to other people and has a lot of internal dialogue which makes him look kinda lovely. It is just that he grows away from that. He does, but I don't believe it's handled very well and his arc seems sudden. I kind of wonder how much of this is due to the translation though, I heard that Squall's personality quirks are much different in Japanese where he's the shy and quiet guy who keeps trying to deflect any responsibility given to him and he's overly apologetic but without really being sincere about it as opposed to the translation which makes him appear much more standoffish, aggressive and more of a little poo poo in general. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Chaotic Flame posted:I didn't know I wanted this but I do! Yeah and it makes the rest of the cast make more sense. Quitis joins you because you're an arrogant hothead she failed to train properly so she's tagging along to make sure you don't kill your own squad (instead of joining Squall because she wants to bone him). Rinoa's instant attraction becomes her and Seifer rekindling an old flame. It works so much better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
Panic! at Nabisco posted:Squall was an interesting character, and a good study in why you don't make shy/socially awkward main characters: people just dislike them and want to interpret their actions in the worst possible way. He's literally a socially awkward but good looking teenager, but the way people talk about him it's like he's actively obnoxious and horrible. Yeah, this is exactly the key. No matter how much you try to hammer home the point that a character is this way for a reason, try to set them up as sympathetic, or just have them be flawed and weak people, you're gonna get the kind of backlash Squall gets. Especially when you have a character come out of their shell (or rather, forced out of it) bit by bit. It's why I actually like the Rinoa thing causing him to break down massively. The person who was propping him up just disappearing out from under him, and he's very much not mentally prepared for that sort of thing. Especially when it's someone with loss issues like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:36
|
|
|
That's a pretty common writing problem. Creating a character who starts unsympathetic makes it very hard for people to be willing to stick long enough to get to the point they get sympathetic. This is generally done through the use of a strong supporting cast which... well, FFVIII just doesn't have. Squall needs characters to bounce off of and Rinoa kiiiina fills that niche but she's separated from Squall so often and nobody else in the party can really match up because they're all so barely-developed or have problems of their own that make the not really a good window into a character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
It really doesn't help that pretty much all the examples of Squall's positive interactions with his supporting cast is optional choices that you get to make as a player--things like telling Zell to shut up or not, or consoling Selphie, etc. etc.--and if you don't choose the "right" option, it just makes it feel even more like Squall hasn't changed at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:46
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:This is generally done through the use of a strong supporting cast which... well, FFVIII just doesn't have. Squall needs characters to bounce off of and Rinoa kiiiina fills that niche ... But isn't in the game for the crucial first few hours. (More like hour, when you know what you're doing, I'm talking first time.) Also, the game punished you for playing Eyes on Me because it's an awful song. The FFV cover is vastly superior.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
Even if you do do them the change in his character once Rinoa becomes comatose is still too drastic to make any sense given what the game has shown you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Squall is actively obnoxious and horrible at first. He's a dick to other people and has a lot of internal dialogue which makes him look kinda lovely. It is just that he grows away from that. No he doesn't. Because Squall dies. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:52
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Even if you do do them the change in his character once Rinoa becomes comatose is still too drastic to make any sense given what the game has shown you. How? You've seen that he has deep problems with loss. You've seen that he's starting to come out of his shell with regards to interacting with people. You see that he's starting to form genuine attachments and care for people. And you've seen that Rinoa is the one actively pushing him to engage more with others and is a pretty driving force behind him doing those things. Just with that alone, it's obvious to see how he'd come crumbling down and basically be reduced to a helpless kid in a way when the thing that was supporting him disappears and he doesn't have the emotional intelligence or maturity to deal with it. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah and it makes the rest of the cast make more sense. Quitis joins you because you're an arrogant hothead she failed to train properly so she's tagging along to make sure you don't kill your own squad (instead of joining Squall because she wants to bone him). Rinoa's instant attraction becomes her and Seifer rekindling an old flame. It works so much better. On the other hand, it makes a lot of other stuff way more rote and traditional. Giving the hotheaded, bombastic, guy who considers himself a hero and regularly disobeys orders the hero spot compared to the evil, distanced, order-driven mercenary really goes against a lot of the themes. Hell, he straight up considers himself the hero but doesn't realize how far he's pushing away his friends by doing so, compared to Squall who is actively trying to avoid being a hero, but ends up dumped into the spot anyways. It's a mess of thematic conflicts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:57
|
|
|
Squall is a shoujo hero.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Terper posted:Squall is a shoujo hero. He is nothing like Tamahome. David Hayter would be a good voice for him, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:He's right though. People seem to dismiss Cloud as an "emo git", yet that's Squall, the guy who freaks out about being talked about in the past tense, throws a tantrum and spends most of the game wanting to brood alone because of something that happened in his past that he can't even remember happening whilst he constantly monologues about how nobody understands him. That's not Cloud, in fact Cloud only acts cold and "tough" in the Midgar section of the game. Aerith knows that this is a front which is why she teases him and the cracks begin to appear in his persona. The real Cloud is a total dork who is insecure about his own accomplishments and really just wants to impress other people. And more than that, Cloud cracks jokes and kind of plays up as everybody's cool big brother throughout the whole first half of the game. His whole persona is intended to be basically "awesome action man" but he tends to lean more Kurt Russel than Stallone or Arnold, cracking wise from time to time and generally presenting himself as hot poo poo. Barret calls him cocky a whole bunch throughout the first missions. It's hard to see if Square has realized that or not, given his portrayals in media since the original game. I hope that they don't ruin his charm entirely in the remake.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
SettingSun posted:I've been playing the FFX-2 Remaster (ie the best FF) and just got the Psychic dressphere. Is this thing as powerful as I think it is? It has all the elemental eaters, a hasting ability, and an ability the nullifies all damage. Not that the game was particularly difficult, but this seems impressive for chapter 1. It's pretty great, yeah. Definitely worth investing time into it. Teleport and Time Trip are some of my favorite abilities in the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:He is nothing like Tamahome.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:I don't know that "your first FF is the one you love best" is entirely true. FF4 (FF2 US) was my first and I loved it and still do, so there is some truth to that, but 6 still blew me away and then 7 blew me away even more. 7 was the first game I played that had cinematic story telling and crazy visual effects. It was my first exposure to cyberpunk. Beyond that, Cloud's story really built on the existential crisis stuff that existed in 4 and 6 and it was a somewhat different take on the classic hero's story that I personally hadn't seen before. It probably helps that I was 13 so I was going through the usual early teen existential crisis so I connected with the story more than I would have if I was 20 or something. Well yeah, nobody's pretending it's an infallible rule. But I think it's a pretty safe bet when someone says 'I dunno why, maybe cuz I played it first, but FF4/7/whatever is just incredibly special to me for reasons I can't properly articulate' as in the case of me or NikkolasKing  I agree with Cleretic too, probably in a lot of cases the first FF doesn't necessarily stay your favourite but it does fundamentally colour what you expect from subsequent titles. That seems pretty plausible given the number of people who don't feel like FFXV is a 'proper' FF game (including myself) -- it's not a conscious thing, I think, for some people your mental model of what an FF should be only extends so far.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
Cleretic posted:I feel lime your first FF being your favorite is largely correct, but it might color what you look for from the rest of the series. My first FF was the first game on the NES, followed by FF2 (4), then 3(6), then 7 (7). And so on, until 15 (15). 7 is still up there as one of the better ones I played through to completion. I don't particularly agree that the first game "codifies" what you come to expect from Final Fantasy, either. Not as a universal truth. I didn't actually start really appreciating JRPGs in general until Chrono Trigger and Earthbound convinced me to go back and FINISH FF6 because I initially bounced off it pretty hard as a kid. From that point on I was pretty much on board for Square/Square-Enix JRPGs. Even the garbage ones. Bottom line is people are different, and Final Fantasy has been pretty different between games. It's not really surprising to me that a series that has gone different places with its entries has fans for each, regardless of when they actually played it, first or last. Sometimes the writing in a game/story really speaks to you, for any number of reasons. Trying to "justify" or "explain" this by boiling it down to a particular theory just doesn't work for me. The theory of "your first FF is the best FF" is espoused as truth by people who are so broken-brained they cannot understand why anyone would DARE to like things they don't like, so they figure that everyone else must be more broken brained than they are. Which leads to great discussions like "What happened to muh final fantasy" and "Well obviously it was the first game you played unless you told me that it wasn't then poo poo I guess I don't have anything else going on with this argument except to be a condescending prick about final fantasy/anime games on Something Awful!" NikkolasKing posted:He is nothing like Tamahome. http://vocaroo.com/i/s1esaJVJtlli agreed
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2016 01:29
|
|
