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free midis online posted:They haven't done enough to address cost of living though, you have to be fairly wealthy to live in any of the cities and the solution to homelessness has often been to punish homeless people in the hopes it'll either force them out or make them magically pull up enough income to pay rent. Maybe it's ignorance on my part, I've never really lived there, but California's got a bad reputation and the Democrats have been lovely enough elsewhere to make me believe it As long as urban creative professionals are doing well, diversity is celebrated, and social issues are going left that's all the party cares about. Anything else happens to "those people", aka the working class... and they are bad and not a liberal problem.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:33
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Gringostar posted:people in blue states are generally happy though so why would politicians want to gently caress that up and risk getting tossed? Nobody in Illinois is happy, and in almost every meaningful way it's a blue state.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:34
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Karl Sharks posted:idg why stronger together is so terrible? Because there's no call to action or anything. People know that it's good to be strong, but that's a means to an end. Right now when people are worried about the direction of the country they don't want to hear about how fast we're gonna be moving.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:34
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Nobody in Illinois is happy, and in almost every meaningful way it's a blue state. Plenty of honkeys fled Chicago for the suburbs and they're happy gently caress them tho
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Nov 22, 2016 22:35
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Because there's no call to action or anything. to me it means if we come together we can tackle any problem, not just jobs e: not to say its the best slogan, but i guess i remember it getting flack but never really understood that Karl Sharks has issued a correction as of 22:40 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 22:35
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Lemming posted:http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=261 I think the key here is that California Democrats are liberal on social issues and are willing to accept somewhat higher taxes (especially if they only apply to people richer than themselves) to resolve some aspects of economic disparity. What they (and most others) will NOT accept is anything that they perceive as negatively affecting their own quality of life or the life of their children, even if it's for the greater good. The latter include any repeal of Prop 13 (will drastically increase property taxes and/or lower housing value), attempts to increase housing density (will put more pressure on neighborhood public services and might make schools *gasp* more diverse), attempts to reform healthcare (single payer may result in a decrease in care quality for those who currently have good employer-sponsored health insurance), etc. If the California democratic party starts pushing realistic solutions to any of the profound economic disparity issues facing the state, the backlash will flip California red. And the CA dems know this, so they will never do something this drastic.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:37
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loquacius posted:Does this include Peter Thiel most definitely yes
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Nov 22, 2016 22:40
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Karl Sharks posted:idg why stronger together is so terrible? Stronger together is absolute poo poo. One: It's an already existing pro-establishment British slogan. Two: It's basically "Sit down, shut up, and do what you're told" in nicer terms, at least the way I've seen used. Third: I don't see anything actually good about it. It doesn't really have any emotional hook does it? Fourth: It doesn't exactly ring true in this age of partisan politics where "working together" mostly seems to mean letting the other guy have whatever he wants in the interest of avoiding conflict. Five: Even in a two word slogan it manages to hedge and limit itself to relative rather than absolute comparisons. Sixth: It's the slogan of Hillary and the establishment that lost this election and thus already tainted. If we're going to keep using already existing D slogans, why not go back to the significantly better Hope and Change? God knows we'll need it after multiple years of Trump, someone we don't really want to be stronger together with... It's a lot better than I'm With Her, but that's not saying much. It's biggest problem is that's it not saying much, really. "I Like Ike" has more meat on it's bones than "Better Together" Serf posted:Okay, so I'm gonna have lunch with my district's Chairman after Thanksgiving. Dunno what I'm gonna be doing yet, but there are other people interested in getting Democratic Party stuff going on in my county so hell yeah. Glad it's working out for you, hopefully you keep us up to date. Aurubin posted:Is Building a Better America a good slogan? Trying to brainstorm potential taglines. Goddamn I'm With Her was terrible. Be ambitious! "Building the Best America" Even then, you really want something more active and forceful, "Building" is so passive. Hmm, how about "Make America the Best". We're getting closer, now! Let's throw in a bit of nostalgia, help people feel it's possible by reminding them of all their rosey memories from the past. "Make America the Best... Again!" I think we might have a winner.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:41
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Karl Sharks posted:idg why stronger together is so terrible? Everything Hillary touched turned to poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:41
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bernie good
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Nov 22, 2016 22:42
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sincx posted:I think the key here is that California Democrats are liberal on social issues and are willing to accept somewhat higher taxes (especially if they only apply to people richer than themselves) to resolve some aspects of economic disparity. What they (and most others) will NOT accept is anything that they perceive as negatively affecting their own quality of life or the life of their children, even if it's for the greater good. Bullshit. If you improve peoples' lives and give them a reason to show up and vote, they will. You can do these things without hurting the middle class. This cowardly idea is just a smokescreen that lets people justify not making any effort whatsoever to do anything good for anybody.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:43
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GlyphGryph posted:Stronger together is absolute poo poo. One: It's an already existing pro-establishment British slogan. Two: It's basically "Sit down, shut up, and do what you're told" in nicer terms, at least the way I've seen used. Third: I don't see anything actually good about it. It doesn't really have any emotional hook does it? Fourth: It doesn't exactly ring true in this age of partisan politics where "working together" mostly seems to mean letting the other guy have whatever he wants in the interest of avoiding conflict. Five: Even in a two word slogan it manages to hedge and limit itself to relative rather than absolute comparisons. Sixth: It's the slogan of Hillary and the establishment that lost this election and thus already tainted. If we're going to keep using already existing D slogans, why not go back to the significantly better Hope and Change? God knows we'll need it after multiple years of Trump, someone we don't really want to be stronger together with... i didnt meant to keep using it, that would be dumb, i was just curious about why it was supposed to be awful but lol at all of your points, god you are something else, keep on doing you i guess
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Nov 22, 2016 22:44
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bump_fn posted:Plenty of honkeys fled Chicago for the suburbs and they're happy Most Honkeys are coming back to the city though, and I don't even think they're happy. The city isn't the revenue generator it once was- something you can see in how little Rahm is able to keep the machine happy.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:45
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Lemming posted:Bullshit. If you improve peoples' lives and give them a reason to show up and vote, they will. You can do these things without hurting the middle class. This cowardly idea is just a smokescreen that lets people justify not making any effort whatsoever to do anything good for anybody. repealing prop 13, or even amending it will absolutely hurt the middle class most of whom are only middle class because of how much their house is worth
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Nov 22, 2016 22:46
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I like: Fighting for all of us!
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Nov 22, 2016 22:46
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Gringostar posted:repealing prop 13, or even amending it will absolutely hurt the middle class most of whom are only middle class because of how much their house is worth lol California is hosed "The Quake"* is months away, and Trump will be president. *The entire ring of fire is exploding, Cali is next.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:47
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Karl Sharks posted:i didnt meant to keep using it, that would be dumb, i was just curious about why it was supposed to be awful Stronger together is just lame. Almost as lame as brainstorming slogans before we even have any idea what the political landscape will look like a year from now.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:48
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GlyphGryph posted:Glad it's working out for you, hopefully you keep us up to date. Thanks for the help! I'll keep the thread posted on how things go down here in Georgia. Lemming posted:Bullshit. If you improve peoples' lives and give them a reason to show up and vote, they will. You can do these things without hurting the middle class. This cowardly idea is just a smokescreen that lets people justify not making any effort whatsoever to do anything good for anybody. Exactly this. Whip out that wealth inequality chart, point to the exact highest spot on it and go "these motherfuckers right here gotta go" Here's my slogan: Take Our Billions Back alternatively: Give Us Back Our Billions
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Nov 22, 2016 22:48
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A good slogan would be shooting a bound and gagged tech billionaire in the head at the start of every speech. Like Huey Long used to do.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:49
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Nonsense posted:lol California is hosed funny enough, a huge quake would probably be the one thing that could provide the imputes to fix prop 13 since all those middle class homeowners are leveraged to the hilt with second and third mortgages and couldn't rebuild and they would lose their nest egg
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Nov 22, 2016 22:50
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Karl Sharks posted:i didnt meant to keep using it, that would be dumb, i was just curious about why it was supposed to be awful It's not awful, it's just not good. And you can't deny that introduced at the point it was, where the party was desperate to get people to coalesce behind Hillary and being pushed by the same people that blame Bernie for her loss that it isn't unreasonable to feel like there was an element of "fall in line" to it. No slogan is going to be perfect, the fact that I can list a bunch of problems with them doesn't mean it's actually bad - but it doesn't mean those problems are irrelevant either. quote:but lol at all of your points, god you are something else, keep on doing you i guess
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Nov 22, 2016 22:50
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Gringostar posted:repealing prop 13, or even amending it will absolutely hurt the middle class most of whom are only middle class because of how much their house is worth Wow, prop 13 is the only thing you can do to increase revenue, that's really so awful. Guess we should pack it in, all progress is impossible I'm going to come to the table with this  and then negotiate the blood sacrifice down to a pint
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Nov 22, 2016 22:51
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Lemming posted:http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=261 free midis online posted:They haven't done enough to address cost of living though, you have to be fairly wealthy to live in any of the cities and the solution to homelessness has often been to punish homeless people in the hopes it'll either force them out or make them magically pull up enough income to pay rent. Maybe it's ignorance on my part, I've never really lived there, but California's got a bad reputation and the Democrats have been lovely enough elsewhere to make me believe it Minimum wage was increased and will give 43% of Californians a raise. Los Angeles passed Measure HHH to give 1.2 billion to homeless housing and services. I'm unsure what SF is doing in this regard. Again, minimum wage increase and local governments beginning to address the housing shortage and cost of living. They also recently repealed a welfare reform law that refused to pay single mothers of multiple children more per month. Furthermore the state and cities are continuing to improve transportation infrastructure with practically no help from the federal government (which is practically unheard of in US history) and attempt to maintain the best public university system in the country to power the economy. California could absolutely be better but they don't even have the votes to repeal prop 13 yet (and when/if they do they'd likely start with raising the property taxes on commercial properties, rather than residential), urban density is increasing and starting to be addressed in Los Angeles (which I know more about than other counties). California is one of the most well-run states in the union and is continually improving even through severe drought and economic headwinds with virtually no help from the feds. Things could be better though, not disagreeing.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:52
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Gringostar posted:funny enough, a huge quake would probably be the one thing that could provide the imputes to fix prop 13 since all those middle class homeowners are leveraged to the hilt with second and third mortgages and couldn't rebuild and they would lose their nest egg At the same time you did mention that most of California's middle-class depend on those houses. 
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Nov 22, 2016 22:53
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Nonsense posted:At the same time you did mention that most of California's middle-class depend on those houses. it's almost like CA's middle class was built as a house of cards a house of cards on a literal fault line
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Nov 22, 2016 22:55
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GlyphGryph posted:It's not awful, it's just not good. And you can't deny that introduced at the point it was, where the party was desperate to get people to coalesce behind Hillary and being pushed by the same people that blame Bernie for her loss that it isn't unreasonable to feel like there was an element of "fall in line" to it. No slogan is going to be perfect, the fact that I can list a bunch of problems with them doesn't mean it's actually bad - but it doesn't mean those problems are irrelevant either. quote:One: It's an already existing pro-establishment British slogan. Two: It's basically "Sit down, shut up, and do what you're told" in nicer terms, at least the way I've seen used. Third: I don't see anything actually good about it. It doesn't really have any emotional hook does it? Fourth: It doesn't exactly ring true in this age of partisan politics where "working together" mostly seems to mean letting the other guy have whatever he wants in the interest of avoiding conflict. 1) who the gently caress knows that? it's like saying MAGA is reminiscent of american fascist slogans 2) think you're projecting very hard there 3) being strong and together feels emotional to me? i mean how does that not cause emotions but MAGA does? 4) it never says we need to work with every american, i take it as liberals and progressives coming together because we can beat them, why the hell would you think Hillary Rodham Clinton cares one iota about working with the GOP?? who the hell thinks that?
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Nov 22, 2016 22:56
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Most Honkeys are coming back to the city though, and I don't even think they're happy. The city isn't the revenue generator it once was- something you can see in how little Rahm is able to keep the machine happy. I was being facetious
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Nov 22, 2016 22:56
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Serf posted:Thanks for the help! I'll keep the thread posted on how things go down here in Georgia. H&R Block is already using this for their ad campaign about getting a big tax return
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Nov 22, 2016 22:56
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Lemming posted:Wow, prop 13 is the only thing you can do to increase revenue, that's really so awful. Guess we should pack it in, all progress is impossible Prop 55 passed which kept the increased taxes on people making over $500k dude raising taxes on the rich is something CA has done and will continue to do, but until prop 13 is fixed there are a lot of things that will still be hosed is the issue
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Nov 22, 2016 23:00
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Return Power to People TAX FREEZE
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Nov 22, 2016 23:00
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Grey Fox posted:Return Power to People eat the rich
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Nov 22, 2016 23:00
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Karl Sharks posted:1) who the gently caress knows that? it's like saying MAGA is reminiscent of american fascist slogans I think you're taking my list the wrong way, as more of an absolutist denial rather than as a list of "problems I see, big and small, with the slogan". (1) is definitely true of me, personally. That was a personal one, haha. I can't help but associate it with assholes from England. It doesn't really matter how widespread it is, it's still a bad thing. Good slogans will probably have reasons they are bad, too, it's about weighing the good vs the bad. (2) I don't feel that way personally. I know people who do, though, and I can understand how it could come across that way. Can't you? I'm not asking for much except a bit of empathy here. (3) MAGA pulls on fond memories and hopes for the future, appeals to bravado and goes right for GREATNESS of which you are part. "Stronger Together"... does not. (4) Of course it doesn't, but again, context: The Democrats have rightly been criticized for trying to govern "together" with the Republicans and losing poo poo instead of fighting, so a message about unity... (also, Obama clearly did, and Hillary said she was going to be Obama so why wouldn't she?)
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Nov 22, 2016 23:02
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instead of a slogan we should just use a picture of a guillotine
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Nov 22, 2016 23:02
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Gringostar posted:repealing prop 13, or even amending it will absolutely hurt the middle class most of whom are only middle class because of how much their house is worth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rhBdWojLe0 Rising property values ended up being matched with rising debts on lended mortgages, which means as soon as there's a property bubble pop in California all those "middle class" people will go into negative equity and have their properties foreclosed on http://www.cnbc.com/foreclosures/ There's a new wave of foreclosures & mortgage rate increases going on right now, because banks and landlords are expecting the Trump administration not to do anything about it. Of course, people have still been having their homes illegally foreclosed on all throughout the Obama years, but it was kept much more low-key after the Robosigning scandal.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:03
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Eat the rich.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:07
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GlyphGryph posted:I think you're taking my list the wrong way, as more of an absolutist denial rather than as a list of "problems I see, big and small, with the slogan". 1)okay, that's fair i see what you mean now 2) yeah, and in context of what you meant behind the post it's less important because you're basically trying to find whatever you can wrong with it 3) you could say the same about being STRONGER which means we're already STRONG whereas being GREAT AGAIN means we're not great now and are possibly poo poo actually; and how does "together" not give you the sense of being a part of it? it's literally saying "we need everyone so we can do this, yes you too" whereas make america great again doesn't say who is going to do it, just that it'll be done somehow 4) except when obama gave her the sec state job, he asked for her advice and she said don't give the fuckers an inch, and he admitted to regretting not listening to her at the time
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Nov 22, 2016 23:07
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AngryBooch posted:California could absolutely be better but they don't even have the votes to repeal prop 13 yet (and when/if they do they'd likely start with raising the property taxes on commercial properties, rather than residential), urban density is increasing and starting to be addressed in Los Angeles (which I know more about than other counties). California is one of the most well-run states in the union and is continually improving even through severe drought and economic headwinds with virtually no help from the feds. Things could be better though, not disagreeing. My point is that tepid progress while millions of people are suffering isn't enough. I'm not comparing it to other states, I'm comparing it to what it could be. The problem with the Democrats is they "push" (lol) for things to be slightly better than they are and then compromise down with the Republicans to making things only somewhat worse. They need to be pushing hard for things to be much better. Gringostar posted:Prop 55 passed which kept the increased taxes on people making over $500k dude What's your point here, dude? Things are clearly not good enough for millions of people. They're suffering and dying. Tepid progress is better than nothing, but unless your argument here is "these things that are happening are enough and we shouldn't do anything more" I don't know point you're trying to make.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:07
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The root cause of all these problems is capitalism, fundamentally. So if the Democratic party is going to try and win back the working class, it needs to be ambitious enough to push a New New Deal if they want to save it and themselves. Incremental improvements in microtargeted interests aren't going to cut it. If Democrats can't quit couching everything in terms of what's realistic, then the choice will be either socialism or barbarism.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:09
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Lemming posted:What's your point here, dude? Things are clearly not good enough for millions of people. They're suffering and dying. Tepid progress is better than nothing, but unless your argument here is "these things that are happening are enough and we shouldn't do anything more" I don't know point you're trying to make. i'm not disagreeing with you that incremental progress isn't enough, poo poo man i want more change and for things to actually get fixed long term the issue is that without a huge grassroots movement of young voters that will show up to every election you're not going to change poo poo because people that are protected by things like prop 13 don't want that poo poo to change and will resist changing it to the death
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Nov 22, 2016 23:13
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It's not enough to just show up and vote, the leadership has to be primaried out of contention. The problem with the Democratic party is ideological, and pushing turnout for the same corrupt machine Democrats isn't going to change anything.
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Nov 22, 2016 23:15
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