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Fister Roboto posted:Thanks. Also, do Celes's burst commands count as spellblade abilities? Yes, they do count as spellblades per my understanding.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:32
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flowinprose posted:Quina has slightly better stats, actually, but Sazh has more versatility in his skillset and can equip a ranged weapon. Also don't underestimate the utility of WHT 3, you can use it to cast quite a few useful spells when the situation calls for it: Faith, Haste, Reflect, Dispel, or Esuna (or any other debuff specific cure). I think this makes Sazh a better character all other things being equal. Don't forget that machinist 5 also gives him access to bio grenade which gives him a very useable AOE option when needed. Combat 3 also gives access to Launch!  Machinists don't get shooter and vice versa for the most part. I'd also point out that for the specific setup we're discussing, single target faith haste and dispel are mostly useless. So he can cast reflect and Esuna. Meh. Which basically means we're left with a support with better stats and a better SB versus a support with access to Bio Grenade for damage. That's mostly a push where you choose based on access to a synergy weapon. And I wouldn't hone Bio Grenade just to turn it from "Quina is a clear winner" into a push. (For reference, if an enemy isn't vulnerable to a status, most mech skills are 1.9x; breakdowns are 2.1. Launch is 2.0. Bio Grenade is the only good reason to use mech skills not against a vulnerable target)
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Nov 23, 2016 18:50
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flowinprose posted:I don't understand why Sazh got left off of the list of SharpShooter users. Because no character with any baseline access to Machinist got any access to Sharpshooter except Tyro (because of course) and Rikku (because someone at DeNA has a crush on her -- or more realistically because so far Sharpshooter is an FFX/water skillset and that's her territory).
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Nov 23, 2016 18:50
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Fister Roboto posted:Thanks. Also, do Celes's burst commands count as spellblade abilities? iirc yep but I don't know for certain. You can check for yourself by looking at the burst commands on the SB description in game. It'll say "Type: Spellblade" in the ability description if they are. I have Bartz's BSB and I know the commands for that one are spellblades and trigger spellblade damage/doublecast RMs.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:55
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CaptainPsyko posted:Combat 3 also gives access to Launch! I'll give you that it's basically a wash if you have both characters leveled, but if I was going to level up one or the other to consistently use I would pick Sazh because of his versatility. Nobody else on the team he is using could cast those spells other than his white mage, so in a fight where lure-reflect for example becomes a useful strategy, he could use Sazh to cast reflect while still carrying full break.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:58
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's probably saying something that Edgar is the only other 'Machinist' BSB. They probably haven't really figured out how to properly do one yet, and Laguna/Mustadio are the only full Machinists left. Quistis actually does the status affliction role just as well as Edgar and better than Balthier if you don't need to spread it around, between her BSB and OSB, as well as access to Stop, Blindga, Intimidate, and potentially Slowga. She has to rely on the crappier versions of Sleep/Poison, but that's about it. They finally figured out how to do Machinist BSB's with Mustadio's at least. Instant cast machinist with all that +machinist skill damage and new abilities that came with it is really hot.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:09
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flowinprose posted:I don't understand why Sazh got left off of the list of SharpShooter users. Because Sharpshooter is (almost) mutually exclusive with Machinist, it's almost a "poo poo, we need something to slap on the non-machinist 5* supports other than Support 5" afterthought. The exceptions (Tyro aside) are Rikku (who seems to get all of the skillsets they couldn't logically fit into FFX for some reason) and Faris (who only gets Machinist 4 and has to Record Sphere for it anyway). e:f;b
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Nov 23, 2016 19:12
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Heaven Spacey posted:iirc yep but I don't know for certain. You can check for yourself by looking at the burst commands on the SB description in game. It'll say "Type: Spellblade" in the ability description if they are. I have Bartz's BSB and I know the commands for that one are spellblades and trigger spellblade damage/doublecast RMs. Indeed they are. God drat Celes is a premiere shitwrecker.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:15
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I'm actually pretty excited about my next few pulls. Between the Lucky BSB and the OK Banner, anything is possible! 
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Nov 23, 2016 19:16
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flowinprose posted:I'll give you that it's basically a wash if you have both characters leveled, but if I was going to level up one or the other to consistently use I would pick Sazh because of his versatility. Nobody else on the team he is using could cast those spells other than his white mage, so in a fight where lure-reflect for example becomes a useful strategy, he could use Sazh to cast reflect while still carrying full break. We have an Orbfest coming in less than three weeks. Levels are irrelevant unless you're so new that memory crystals are a constraint. And even then, they aren't a huge one either at this point past the first month or so. So, yeah, Sazh has niche uses for niche fights. But there are other people that are even better at most of those niche uses unless you really need the specific combination of white 3 or status infliction and a boostga. (Remember, he has Faris's BSB. Defensive breakdowns and full break are covered. This is a pure DPS slot.) The real solution, as noted, is Onion Kid or Celes Burst or any of the other upcoming 610's or some other boostga not on a support type. But as a stopgap, I still say Quina wins.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:16
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Excited that Gaia Cross is coming out. I run a knight-heavy setup as it is so it'll be nice to add that to the mix.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:22
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CaptainPsyko posted:We have an Orbfest coming in less than three weeks. Levels are irrelevant unless you're so new that memory crystals are a constraint. And even then, they aren't a huge one either at this point past the first month or so. I was thinking run Farris with steal power / power breakdown and a good damage ability (like TR) in the other slot and have Sazh carry full break / magic breakdown or like I mentioned sub out one of those skills for whatever niche you need to hit. If you want to call Sazh/Quina being in there for purely DPS purposes I'm pretty sure putting Cloud back into the party would probably fulfill that role more effectively. flowinprose fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 19:23
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I was more excited about the Black Friday banner before I realized it's a very distinct possibility I will only get one 5* and it could be another Keeper's Tome.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:25
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UHD posted:I was more excited about the Black Friday banner before I realized it's a very distinct possibility I will only get one 5* and it could be another Keeper's Tome. Bad draws can always happen. I just want to see three rainbows come up at least, then I'll be relieved. Odds are in your favor for getting something new and useful. 25 mythril for a very good pool of relics. It's better than any previous lucky draw we've had. Even if it's 50 it's well worth it. Kawalimus fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 19:27
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flowinprose posted:I was thinking run Farris with steal power / power breakdown and a good damage ability (like TR) in the other slot and have Sazh carry full break / magic breakdown or like I mentioned sub out one of those skills for whatever niche you need to hit. Faris BSB is Full Breakdown on entry and will get overwritten by Full Break. Power/Magic Breakdown on commands. It necessarily constrains what another support can do if you want to get any mileage out of it. I mean, you can have Faris BSB sentry into Thief's Revenge spam, and have Power or Magic Breakdown on Sazh/Quina, which is a net damage gain probably, but it doesn't change that the fifth slot in this setup is basically a second support pure damage slot. Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 19:32
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Kawalimus posted:Bad draws can always happen. I just want to see three rainbows come up at least, then I'll be relieved. Odds are in your favor for getting something new and useful. 25 mythril for a very good pool of relics. It's better than any previous lucky draw we've had. Oh I know it's a great opportunity, and I'm pulling regardless. I'm just massively pessimistic when it comes to this game and relic draws.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:33
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I just want a BSB for a character I like because I have the most fun when I'm using a team of characters that I like instead of who has the best loadout.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:37
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I will only get one rainbow, and it'll be the worst possible thing. I'll also get like two 4*'s, and they will be shields.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:40
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I suppose I should followup with recommendations on ability setups for this too then. I'm poor and new so my collection is lacklustre at best, so generic targets would be neat. I'm still mostly using 3* stuff, but options are opening up for me on 4*s thanks to event orbs. Aerith: Curaga, Protectga/Shellga Tidus : Lifesiphon, Hydroburst (got it free from event) Paine: Spellblade element and x knight ability? Faris: I have no idea. I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to Thief/Dancer. I'm mostly mashing Tempo Flurry. Presumably I'd run MultiBreak and something if I had them. Quina: similarly no clue. Running BLM elemental stuff seems silly. Breakdowns?
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Nov 23, 2016 19:44
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Sprite141 posted:I will only get one rainbow, and it'll be the worst possible thing. I'll also get like two 4*'s, and they will be shields. Believe, and you will receive a Crystal Helm!
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Nov 23, 2016 19:52
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I propose that once multiplayer raids are out of beta, that we make the official goon raid ID 4666. Remember, dial 4666 for GOONs.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:59
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paperwind posted:I propose that once multiplayer raids are out of beta, that we make the official goon raid ID 4666. Remember, dial 4666 for GOONs. I'd love to run a mage meta group with some goons. I have native Focus and Maria's BSB. 
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Nov 23, 2016 20:02
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paperwind posted:I propose that once multiplayer raids are out of beta, that we make the official goon raid ID 4666. Remember, dial 4666 for GOONs. Works for me, way easier than trying to coordinate each group individually.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:04
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Life is short (, steady sword!) so I'm just gonna pull on OK today and accept my folly if I pull his or Luneth's BSB on Friday.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:04
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Life is short (, steady sword!) so I'm just gonna pull on OK today and accept my folly if I pull his or Luneth's BSB on Friday. I'm going to hold fast and wait for Friday. I know I can do it. OK well I think I can.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:05
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Wilekat posted:I suppose I should followup with recommendations on ability setups for this too then. I'm poor and new so my collection is lacklustre at best, so generic targets would be neat. I'm still mostly using 3* stuff, but options are opening up for me on 4*s thanks to event orbs. Cheap Loadout that you ought to be able to do Right Now: Aeris: Curaga, Proshellga if needed, Diaga or a Summon if not Paine: Spellblade against weakness > Banishing Strike > Lifesiphon > Spellblade against neutral element in slot one. Slot 2, Draw Fire, Lifesiphon to spin up the first SSB hit, or same as slot 1. If you have non-water element boost gear, use it but it doesn't change the priority order listed above other than helping you choose a neutral spellblade. Tidus: Lifesiphon/Lifesiphon. Hydroburst if AoE or water vuln, Tempo Flurry if you need a slow. Dismissal is also worth using if you have it. Faris: Dismissal and Full Break are probably her best options and they aren't good ones. Mostly, just have herbuse burst commands. Make sure she gets a Mako Might and you should only ever need to hit one button in between bursts tops, so donwhatever here I guess Quina: Armor Breakdown and then one of Power/Magic/Mental Breakdown. You won't need the debuff from any but Armor, so just use whatever you have honed the most. Alternately, Launch is 3* and super super cheapnto hine and does nearly the same damage. Expensive long term target loadout: Aeris: Upgrade to Curaja. Better yet, once you get a burst medica, Curada. Paine: Gaia Cross/Saints Cross with Lionheart record materia (Squall RM2). Tidus: Powerchain/Sapphire Shot or Powerchain/Full charge (FC will do .08 more damage, but if you get stuck casting it without PC will be far slower/weaker). Keep using Hydroburst for AE. Faris: Thief's Revenge/Sapphire Shot (if using a ranged weapon) or Dismissal. Quina: Armor Breakdown/ Power or Magic Breakdown. Of those I'd prioritize Thief's Revenge for Faris and Gaia Cross for Paine. The latter because you can get a free copy from the event tonight and it frees her up to draw fire and use that to power SSB spam hastes. The former because once Faris has TR to hit you can push breakdown duty for a second BD over to Quina and get more damage out of Faris every over round. Also it hits like a truck.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:15
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Better long-term R3 hone: Saint Cross (for Celes w/Indomitable Blade) Thief's Revenge (for Yuffie w/Clear Tranquil and Gauntlet) I'm leaning Saint Cross but want opinions. I can R3 one of the two right now but not both.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:25
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Wilekat posted:I suppose I should followup with recommendations on ability setups for this too then. I'm poor and new so my collection is lacklustre at best, so generic targets would be neat. I'm still mostly using 3* stuff, but options are opening up for me on 4*s thanks to event orbs. For 4* stuff, you'll probably want Curaja at some point. It generally heals for a good ~20% more than Curaga. Breakdowns are great but if you're running Faris because you have her BSB then it's not *completely* necessary. Still, you are probably gonna want Power Breakdown and Magic Breakdown just so you aren't totally married to Beryl Serpent. Bear in mind, versus targets that resist stat reduction, they are only slightly more effective than 3* breaks, but it's still a huge help. A decent filler skill to stick on Faris or Tidus while you save up major orbs for better stuff would be the Celerity skill Dismissal. It has a 2x damage modifier and a 25% chance to Stun, which resets the victim's ATB to 0 no matter what they were doing at the time. Unlike other status effects, very, very few enemies resist Stun. 4* dances are a little more niche. For 5* stuff, Full Break is still incredibly important and you should get it to R2 ASAP. Beyond that, you should consider Full Charge, as even though it takes a long time to do its damage, it's still a lot of value for the orbs spent, and you are pretty much always going to have a dude with Combat 5 on your team. Other than that you should take a look at who your strongest party members are and what their skills are and equip yourself accordingly. There's only a few really bad 5* skills, mostly stuff like Holy, Flare, Barrage, and Quick Hit that have been around for a long time. Other things, like Powerchain, are kind of niche. Since you're running Tidus though, you can consider doing Powerchain and Full Charge in tandem, as they synergize very well and he's one of the few characters who have both Celerity 5 and Combat 5. Faris is Thief 5, and she can make great use of Thief's Revenge. Paine is Knight 5 and Spellblade 5, and both Saint Cross and Tornado Strike are great. It's really up to you how you want to equip yourself at this level. Saint Cross is also a good choice its broad range of characters that can use it; There's a knight in every realm except FFVII and XI and that's changing very soon. Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 20:27
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So okay, someone explain what OK's BSB is? A few buddies that play as well are screeching about how strong it is. Isn't he just a Tyro lite character?
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Nov 23, 2016 20:30
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Servaetes posted:So okay, someone explain what OK's BSB is? A few buddies that play as well are screeching about how strong it is. It's basically a hybrid shout that you can chain infinitely. +30% ATK/MAG and Hastega. Burst commands are 4 hits physical damage (~2x total), next physical action non-charge, and 4 hits magical damage (rougly equivalent to a ja-nuke in terms of potency), next magical action non-charge. OK himself isn't as flexible as Tyro but in exchange he gets *incredible* stats and is good at healing, nuking, or punching.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:36
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Thanks for the all the advice, guys. I have something to work with, at least! It's probably all up in the air when I pull a bunch of mage BSBs or something and I'm back to square one
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Nov 23, 2016 20:37
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Servaetes posted:So okay, someone explain what OK's BSB is? A few buddies that play as well are screeching about how strong it is. He has fewer 5 star skills than Tyro does, but he concentrates them where they count: Combat, Black Magic, White Magic, Support, Celerity, and Ninja (you do have to dive those to get them from 3 to 5 but it's not too bad and totally worth it). He's also got better stats than Tyro does in literally every category except HP (they're tied at 6800 even at level 99 there). His BSB is party-wide +30% Attack/Magic and Hastega. His commands are a 4 hit physical attack at roughly Lifesiphon total potency which makes the next physical damage-dealing ability or SB instant cast, and a 4 hit magical non-elemental attack at 900 (-ja spell) total potency which makes the next magical damage-dealing ability or SB instant cast. He can chain either of his commands back to back for instant cast commands and can thus get 8-9 commands in during the duration of his burst mode. A lot of global players really underestimate his magical burst command, but it's incredibly strong and makes his BSB valid as a DPS soul break all on its own and without regard to the party buff. It is, in my opinion, the strongest SB in the game.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:47
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There's a lot of dupes in the lucky draw pool for me but I guess that's a good problem to have
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Nov 23, 2016 20:49
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ApplesandOranges posted:I feel like I'd be happier getting Tiny Bee than some of the other first-gen BSBs, like Terra's Stardust Rod or Balthier's Gatling Gun. At least Gatling Gun and Stardust Rod provide good synergy (and in the former's case in a rare weapon category) even if the bursts themselves are somewhat underwhelming. Tiny Bee is basically only useful for Yuna herself and like... Vincent if you are running an-all mage party in X I guess? And I already have a Chaos Rod+ so my healer stick for X is covered. It's by far the relic I'm dreading pulling the most on Friday. Snazzy Frocks posted:There's a lot of dupes in the lucky draw pool for me but I guess that's a good problem to have I've still only got one, so I'm hoping my luck turns around between this and OK. It has to eventually, right? 
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Nov 23, 2016 20:55
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IcePhoenix posted:I just want a BSB for a character I like because I have the most fun when I'm using a team of characters that I like instead of Cloud and his stupid motorcycle. Fixed.  The best thing about getting multiple BSBs is that I could retire Cloud again since he's actually not that good despite getting all the shiny new toys first.Or maybe because he gets all the shiny new toys first, so he gets powercreeped almost immediately.
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Nov 23, 2016 21:07
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Zurai posted:A lot of global players really underestimate his magical burst command, but it's incredibly strong and makes his BSB valid as a DPS soul break all on its own and without regard to the party buff. I'm so ready for disappointment when I blow my mythril and probably some money on Friday
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Nov 23, 2016 21:09
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If you have enough mythril for multiple pulls just pull once a day so you get to stretch out your anticipation and also so you can give yourself more time to make good decisions instead of bad impulse decisions
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Nov 23, 2016 21:14
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iPodschun posted:You're just making me want it more. Dammit. I don't have Krile or Edward's faithgas so I want to use OK for a mage team. If you draw OK's SSB on the first banner (the Onion Sword), you've got a top notch physical attacker with both Chaincharge and Full Break capabilities along with a Speed-scaling Wallbreak SSB. If you draw his SSB on the second banner (Eternal Staff), he's a top tier sage who can also spam RES-ignore ninja magics if needed and who has a nuke with a Tailwind effect attached. If you draw his BSB, he's both as needed, combined with a 30/30 boostfaith and a Hastega. The only flaw with the kid is that it requires egging him up to Lv99 for him to be usable, and record diving to get his 5* skillsets.
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Nov 23, 2016 21:14
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Even if I don't get the BSB I'll be glad when it's out just as a RW. Finally being able to run versatile parties...
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Nov 23, 2016 21:15
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You don't have to egg him to 99. The event comes with a FF3-synergy experience dungeon which is about 2/3 more experience per stamina than Sundaily for FF3 characters.
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Nov 23, 2016 21:16
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