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Paradoxish posted:I don't know whether CS programs teach agile (although I'd be shocked if they didn't), but yes, project and resource management is a huge part of traditional engineering programs. Engineering students are generally required to take several courses that are either purely or partially focused on project management. Does that give you the same skill set as someone who has years of experience or training in project management? Of course not, but it is something that's taught and emphasized. CS programs don't even teach version control systems or build systems a lot of the time
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Nov 23, 2016 23:54
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Xae posted:Link? https://poldev.revues.org/1803#tocfrom2n14 quote:Several issues trouble Singaporean education at the present time. One is that the dominant focus on economic growth and the yoking of the education system to serve manpower needs has meant that both policy makers and citizens adopt an instrumental view of education, notwithstanding rhetoric and calls for holistic education. The curricula emphasis on languages, science, and mathematics has meant a neglect of the humanities. The system is regarded as having become obsessed with certification and parents invest large sums in private tuition. Competition to get into the top schools, programmes in universities, and polytechnics is intense. This orientation has consequences for Singapore’s aspirations to be a major player in the Knowledge-based Economy (KBE). The KBE rewards twenty-first century competencies such as creativity, resilience, entrepreneurship, and communication skills; the present performance orientation is ill suited to meet the needs of such an economy. More practically you can take the case of China, where prestige and family ties demand STEM educations and since it's an autocracy the humanities are heavily propagandized garbage, which has resulted in a bunch of companies full of people who have good individual technical skills but no clue what to do with them short of copy what's happening in the West and get cheap loans from the government (who is poo poo at governing because it's an autocracy and political science is also heavily propagandized)
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Nov 23, 2016 23:55
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Confounding Factor posted:Too many universities in this country are nothing more than education resorts, instead of teaching students the skills and knowledge they can use. Someone who graduates with a humanities degree is the most costly to a taxpayer but also the least employable.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:58
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I say this as an engineer: a lot of engineers can be really loving dumb. The problem is that it's a profession where all you need is a degree. There aren't independent professional societies that you are required to be certified by which takes away the boot in the rear end that makes you keep up with technology and practice. Employers don't always know what to screen for and there are enough jobs available to where having a degree pretty much ensures you'll be able to find work (for most fields). The good engineers end up in management, where they no longer directly do engineering. So you end up with this vicious cycle where career advancement involves no longer directly working in your profession. Then the older guys with experience are tasked with problem solving and they got to where they are because they aren't that easy to replace and they eventually made projects that work by bashing their head against a wall repeatedly.
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Nov 23, 2016 23:58
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Paradoxish posted:I don't know whether CS programs teach agile (although I'd be shocked if they didn't), but yes, project and resource management is a huge part of traditional engineering programs. Engineering students are generally required to take several courses that are either purely or partially focused on project management. Does that give you the same skill set as someone who has years of experience or training in project management? Of course not, but it is something that's taught and emphasized. Yeah, and I would characterize humanities the same way. Essays and theses are exercises in developing critical thought and arguments and cultivating the research techniques and discipline to make an argument all the way through to prove your point. I think of it as "applied critical thought" in a way if that makes sense? Once you gain those skills, you move into the professional world, and that analytical focus becomes more necessary, and you also have developed skills to see where the holes are in other systems of argumentation. Also, developing communication skills and writing effectively are loving core competencies in basically any workplace where there are other humans. I am not arguing that either STEM or humanities are better than the other. Ideally, we would have a well-rounded higher education. Alternatively, better yet, there wouldn't be such economic and social stigma against more applied professional training. I hope if unionization sees a resurgence as part of the next phase of leftist politics, trade unionism can fill in that gap and take on the applied training role that I think has fallen to higher education. Which should not be the case, IMO.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:00
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Man this could really happen https://twitter.com/BretLemoine/status/801557092406624256
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Nov 24, 2016 00:01
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theblackw0lf posted:Man this could really happen the phrase 'could really happen' and 'green party' don't really go together
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Nov 24, 2016 00:02
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Fojar38 posted:https://poldev.revues.org/1803#tocfrom2n14 Those issues you describe are also problems inside of STEM and I think a ton of it is culture more than the education. Or rather the education is a reflection of the culture. I can hand a new grad from the US a task of "design and build X" and they'll do it. They'll gently caress it up hard, but they'll do it. They'll love it too. I have to handhold people with a decade of experience from offshore because they don't have any capability to operate independently. peter banana posted:
A huge part of the problem is that the audiences are different. A communication that is worthless to Audience X may be exactly what Audience Y wants to see. Xae fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 00:02
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Fojar38 posted:https://poldev.revues.org/1803#tocfrom2n14 To be fair, the main reason US students become engineers is because it's the default "makes a lot of money" career right now like lawyers were in the 80s and less "this will reflect well on our family if you do this".
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Nov 24, 2016 00:03
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so, assuming jill stein does uncover voter fraud and hillary becomes pres instead of trump (and we don't have a giant civil war). do the greens start to replace the dems? it's not a good look if your party hides while someone else figures out america was cheated
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Nov 24, 2016 00:04
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Xae posted:Are we really going to go off on a huge STEM/Non-STEM circle jerk?
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Nov 24, 2016 00:04
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Xae posted:Have any of you considered that your stereotyping of other fields of study is just as baseless and wrong as other people's stereotypes of your field of study? I earned a Mass Comm degree in 2000. Feel free to stereotype it as a useless degree that's not worth the paper it's printed on. That stereotype would actually be true.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:07
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Condiv posted:so, assuming jill stein does uncover voter fraud and hillary becomes pres instead of trump (and we don't have a giant civil war). do the greens start to replace the dems? it's not a good look if your party hides while someone else figures out america was cheated In this list of things I have a hard time believing could happen, the green party replacing the democratic party is perhaps the most insane. So idk, maybe?
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Nov 24, 2016 00:11
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N. Senada posted:In this list of things I have a hard time believing could happen, the green party replacing the democratic party is perhaps the most insane. It's 2016
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Nov 24, 2016 00:11
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Top 5 problems with American universities: 1. University administration is one of the most toxic, backstabbing, misogynist, racist fields in the world. I have never met anyone above faculty at a university whom I would trust to hold my coat, let alone trust with real power. But if you want to get away with a huge amount of sexual harassment in a good-ol'-boy culture while abusing petty power as a middle manager, here's the place for you! 2. Universities, and when I say this I mean almost universally every college in the United States, public or private, is deeply invested in a toxic college culture built around alcohol, athletics, and, you guessed it, misogyny. Administrators pay lip service to responsibility while selling branded beers and bottle openers, and encouraging a Greek system that mostly exists to cover up outright alcoholism among a largely underage student body. I bring up alcohol many times because, while people like to throw around overfunded and undersupervised athletic departments as the big problem, alcohol is a way bigger and more ubiquitous issue. And, related to point one, it comes straight from the top and isn't confined to athletics. 3. Nobody gives a poo poo about students. There is almost no regulation of classroom experiences. There is no recourse for discrimination by teachers, or just plain bad classes. The administration does not care, because that's not where universities make their money. And students are, after a year, in so much debt that leaving is a costly mistake, even more so than getting the degree. There is almost no way for students to know, before they go to school, whether they are going to a good school. And financial issues mean most students don't pick their schools that way anyway. Basically, schools can do whatever they want and nobody will give a poo poo, because whether or not classes are any good doesn't get schools onto Top 100 Schools lists, and it doesn't affect alumni donations, and it doesn't affect research money. Sure, there's accreditation, but when accreditation is all part of this same culture, well... what difference does it make? 4. Most schools are research institutions that also teach sometimes. You think the big money at a university is in athletics? Not even close. As valuable as STEM majors might be, they're also crazy understaffed. If you're getting a degree at a major university, you're probably not getting taught by any of those renowned researchers and professors that work there. You're getting taught by their grad students. Humanities are a little better, but points 1, 2, and 3 means that doesn't make a big difference. Yes, some very good research happens at the college level, but that doesn't translate into real education for students. Because of 3, professors aren't hired or paid based on their ability to teach. They're hired based on their ability to bring grant money to the university. 5. As mentioned in 3: there is no way for students to effectively pick a good school. The majority of students get funneled into one school or another because they get a scholarship there, or it's close to home, or in-state tuition is cheaper. If and when it turns out those schools are terrible, students can do poo poo. First, how would they know? Every college prep guide and list and article measures the success of schools based on things like exclusivity (an artificially-inflated joke measurement) and graduation rates, and maybe post-college job placement. And if you don't realize that post-college job placement has more to do with your economic status and connections than your education, well, good, because that's what these universities want. And once students are in, they're in. You can't get your money back. You can transfer to another school, maybe, but that's difficult and expensive. Universities are garbage.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:12
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Paradoxish posted:Engineering programs really tend to straddle the line between regular degree programs and job-focused trade stuff. There's a lot of time spent on working in teams, building leadership skills, managing projects, etc. The problem is that a lot of students either brush that stuff off or the skills just don't take. Not enough though, and certainly not enough in upper level work. Team boatbuilding projects in the intro to engineering class isn't going to cut it when an engineer gets out and starts poo poo-talking architects and draftsmen and designers over aesthetics because it'd be more practical their way.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:13
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Condiv posted:so, assuming jill stein does uncover voter fraud and hillary becomes pres instead of trump (and we don't have a giant civil war). do the greens start to replace the dems? it's not a good look if your party hides while someone else figures out america was cheated In a world where impossible conspiracy theories come true, yes the Green party could ascend to dominance.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:15
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FactsAreUseless posted:Top 5 problems with American universities: All of this rings true to my experience, and makes me all the gladder to have attended a small, formerly all-female and still mostly-female liberal arts school where all teaching was done by the professors. I have friends who went on to grad school at research universities and their stories are almost universally horror stories.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:16
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N. Senada posted:In this list of things I have a hard time believing could happen, the green party replacing the democratic party is perhaps the most insane. that the green party is initiating a recount on behalf of dems is already p insane. besides, we live in the trump dimension now, you should just go ahead and embrace insanity
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Nov 24, 2016 00:16
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Quorum posted:All of this rings true to my experience, and makes me all the gladder to have attended a small, formerly all-female and still mostly-female liberal arts school where all teaching was done by the professors. I have friends who went on to grad school at research universities and their stories are almost universally horror stories.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:17
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PerniciousKnid posted:In a world where impossible conspiracy theories come true, yes the Green party could ascend to dominance. voter machine fraud isn't an impossible conspiracy theory, researchers have been demonstrating hacks for years and we just got done with russia hacking the major political parties and leaking their emails. if russia is trying to influence the election, hilariously insecure electronic voting machines would work quite nicely
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Nov 24, 2016 00:18
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FactsAreUseless posted:Top 5 problems with American universities: A lot of this is because they were never meant to be used as grades 13-16. Good luck getting the soon-to-be administration to regulate and fund trade and technical school alternatives tho.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:18
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In case you're wondering if any of this is going to change, the answer is: these problems can be traced back to the very beginning of American universities. I assume all this poo poo is true outside the U.S., I just can't speak to it. You know why colleges love tradition, and ceremony, and school spirit? Because it protects the power structures that perpetuate these problems. If you've ever bought a piece of university branded gear you should just burn it.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:19
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ThePeavstenator posted:A lot of this is because they were never meant to be used as grades 13-16. Good luck getting the soon-to-be administration to regulate and fund trade and technical school alternatives tho.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:20
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FactsAreUseless posted:In case you're wondering if any of this is going to change, the answer is: these problems can be traced back to the very beginning of American universities. I assume all this poo poo is true outside the U.S., I just can't speak to it. You know why colleges love tradition, and ceremony, and school spirit? Because it protects the power structures that perpetuate these problems. If you've ever bought a piece of university branded gear you should just burn it. I was going to comment that American universities are actually the best in the world despite all those problems Edit: Obviously depending on which universities we're talking about
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Nov 24, 2016 00:20
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Condiv posted:voter machine fraud isn't an impossible conspiracy theory, researchers have been demonstrating hacks for years and we just got done with russia hacking the major political parties and leaking their emails. if russia is trying to influence the election, hilariously insecure electronic voting machines would work quite nicely FactsAreUseless posted:In case you're wondering if any of this is going to change, the answer is: these problems can be traced back to the very beginning of American universities. I assume all this poo poo is true outside the U.S., I just can't speak to it. You know why colleges love tradition, and ceremony, and school spirit? Because it protects the power structures that perpetuate these problems. If you've ever bought a piece of university branded gear you should just burn it.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:22
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FactsAreUseless posted:Universities are garbage. So where did you learn all those big n fancy words?
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Nov 24, 2016 00:24
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What's this whole hacked voting MACHINES coming out of Michigan
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Nov 24, 2016 00:26
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FactsAreUseless posted:In case you're wondering if any of this is going to change, the answer is: these problems can be traced back to the very beginning of American universities. I assume all this poo poo is true outside the U.S., I just can't speak to it. You know why colleges love tradition, and ceremony, and school spirit? Because it protects the power structures that perpetuate these problems. If you've ever bought a piece of university branded gear you should just burn it. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 00:26
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yellowstone supervolcano explosion is also possible, but there's no evidence that either event happened this year. there's been some evidence of voter fraud, which is why recounts are even being mentioned. are you just now learning about this?
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Nov 24, 2016 00:26
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yellowstone supervolcano explosion is also possible, but there's no evidence that either event happened this year. This bargaining stage (it must have been rigged! There must have been massive voter fraud!), combined with the hyperbolic declarations of the imminent descent of the USA into dictatorship and the eventual extinction of the human race and that the Democrats are traitors for not being ideologically pure enough to literally cordon off capital hill to stop the GOP from governing is virtually identical to the reaction from the right in 2008. The Right survived. The Left will also survive as will the Republic.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:27
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yellowstone supervolcano explosion is also possible, but there's no evidence that either event happened this year. I don't know what the specs on the devices look like, but if there are open ports to plug poo poo into I don't think it's out of the possibility even though they aren't connected to the internet. You'd be surprised at how may developers think that encrypting data and sending it on a secure channel is good enough for security.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:27
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Yeah I just don't buy the whole voter fraud because of electronic voting MACHINES
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Nov 24, 2016 00:27
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Hollismason posted:What's this whole hacked voting MACHINES coming out of Michigan https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/23/hillary-clinton-election-vote-recount-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin
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Nov 24, 2016 00:28
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Highly unlikely that it happened, but we also live in the Trump timeline.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:29
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ThePeavstenator posted:I don't know what the specs on the devices look like, but if there are open ports to plug poo poo into I don't think it's out of the possibility even though they aren't connected to the internet. You'd be surprised at how may developers think that encrypting data and sending it on a secure channel is good enough for security. yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss2fPvXBd7Y
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Nov 24, 2016 00:29
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yellowstone supervolcano explosion is also possible, but there's no evidence that either event happened this year. Late edit: Clicking through the links in that Guardian article, I'm not actually convinced by the argument that "Hillary lost districts that Obama won far worse when they were electronic ballot districts" as that doesn't control for literally anything, including race and wealth. There certainly could be something there. It's close enough that a recount is definitely a wise idea in all three states, especially given that if one's been called incorrectly for whatever reason it's likely all three are since the whole point of the swing was that it was all three unexpectedly differing from polling. But I don't know if I actually believe the evidence we have is sufficient to indicate that there must be a recount. DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 00:29
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We know that Russian hackers got into FL's voter database so none of this is impossible.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:31
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FactsAreUseless posted:
This is truth.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:32
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Condiv posted:CS programs don't even teach version control systems or build systems a lot of the time CS isn't engineering even though a lot of its practitioners are deluding themselves about that
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Nov 24, 2016 00:32
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