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Al-Saqr posted:I've always hypothesized that America losing out to China would require a monumentally stupid amount of bad mistakes across multiple levels of government and policy making across internal, external affairs that I thought that the American decision making institutions would never allow this cascade of self inflicted harm to actually happen. Everything in the article has been china.txt for at least 10 years. And though the article seems to imply that TPP intentionally excluded China, the reality iirc is that China looked at it and decided "naw, not right now." while pursuing RCEP and bilateral deals more to its liking.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:31
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Well, I'm not going to be the little Dutch Boy, with his finger stuck in the drat. gently caress that. She and the DNC can hold the water back themselves. lol i bet it helps that you know the black people will be drowning first in that analogy
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Nov 24, 2016 18:31
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Rabble posted:Hey guys, maybe all these trade deals aren't that great for your average American. If only there was a candidate promising to rip them up. I bet he would win an election even if he was propped up by racists and suffers from a giant dose of misogyny. Hey, maybe just because one thing isn't that great doesn't mean the alternative isn't much worse? Instead of having $500 TVs made in China, we could have $3500 TVs made in America or possibly $500 TVs made entirely by robots. That is sort of complicated though, maybe one candidate could lie relentlessly about it and tell people whatever they wanted to hear instead.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:33
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Motto posted:Why was the TPP bad again? The only specific point I ever heard was from pirates fearing that it'd make it harder to steal poo poo. Free trade is an easy scapegoat for extremely complex economic problems that have been plaguing the developed world for decades. NAFTA was treated the same way. TPP is getting even more flak because there's been a wave of economic populism building in the US post-recession that's largely been flying under the radar since Occupy Wall Street stopped making headlines. There's plenty in the TPP that's not great (the state-owned enterprise stuff makes my blood boil), but most people who are flipping out over it don't have specific complaints. They're being told that free trade is responsible for the things that make them uncomfortable and there aren't any high profile politicians who are offering reasonable alternative explanations.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:33
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Al-Saqr posted:I've always hypothesized that America losing out to China would require a monumentally stupid amount of bad mistakes across multiple levels of government and policy making across internal, external affairs that I thought that the American decision making institutions would never allow this cascade of self inflicted harm to actually happen. Don't worry, America won't be losing out to China (but only because the Chinese economy is in deep deep poo poo)
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Nov 24, 2016 18:33
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I heard that the president can grant security access to anyone they want, right? Ignoring the impracticality, is there any legal reason that the president couldn't grant blanket security access to every American in the country?
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Nov 24, 2016 18:34
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None. Security clearance exists for the commander in chief.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:36
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SaTaMaS posted:Hey, maybe just because one thing isn't that great doesn't mean the alternative isn't much worse? Instead of having $500 TVs made in China, we could have $3500 TVs made in America or possibly $500 TVs made entirely by robots. That is sort of complicated though, maybe one candidate could lie relentlessly about it and tell people whatever they wanted to hear instead. I'm glad you feel this way. You and I are two votes in a sea of millions. Perhaps we should be looking at the people who voted for Trump despite all his obvious and very dangerous failings and see what they actually think. They don't like the trade deals, their guy says he's going to rip them up...their guy won. It's not a stretch to assume that the majority of these people feel shafted by both establishments. But go ahead, keep calling them racist idiots. Their vote still counts just the same.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:37
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Jesus, what do we even have to choose from? A bombastic blowhard or a pathological liar? Christ, what a choice. Congrats, you elected a candidate who is both a blowhard AND a liar. The best of both worlds. Also Christ what the gently caress is it with morons like you and your melodramatic language?
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Nov 24, 2016 18:39
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actually because of gerrymandering, the senate, and the electoral college their votes count more than anyone else's
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Nov 24, 2016 18:40
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botany posted:lol i bet it helps that you know the black people will be drowning first in that analogy please teach me the magic that lets you be aware of my current and future situation
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Nov 24, 2016 18:41
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Al-Saqr posted:I've always hypothesized that America losing out to China would require a monumentally stupid amount of bad mistakes across multiple levels of government and policy making across internal, external affairs that I thought that the American decision making institutions would never allow this cascade of self inflicted harm to actually happen. China is sitting on a real estate bubble that makes 2008 in the US look like baby games.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:41
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Trump is an rear end in a top hat. He is an obnoxious curr. But the above is why people like me would vote for him instead of Hillary Clinton. If you are going to give up on life, can you at least point the gun at yourself instead of others?
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Nov 24, 2016 18:42
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SunAndSpring posted:Congrats, you elected a candidate who is both a blowhard AND a liar. The best of both worlds. my lingo is pretty mello compared to most meltdown happening out there
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Nov 24, 2016 18:42
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https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/801842570389131264
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Nov 24, 2016 18:43
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Rabble posted:I'm glad you feel this way. You and I are two votes in a sea of millions. Perhaps we should be looking at the people who voted for Trump despite all his obvious and very dangerous failings and see what they actually think. They don't like the trade deals, their guy says he's going to rip them up...their guy won. It's not a stretch to assume that the majority of these people feel shafted by both establishments. Would telling them to go back to school and get an associate's degree in Advanced Manufacturing be ok, or would that also hurt their feelings?
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Nov 24, 2016 18:48
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I wonder what new and exciting minority group rural whites will blame after four years of Trump accelerates their town's death spiral
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Nov 24, 2016 18:50
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HaveIGotNewsForYou
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Nov 24, 2016 18:51
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It's a small comfort that things will get worse over the next 8 years for idiots like him as much as it will for everyone else, at least.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:51
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Just a friendly reminder that the growth of the US labor movement in the late 19th/early 20th century was heavily fueled on race-baiting. In short, even during relatively better times, plenty of people (
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Nov 24, 2016 18:55
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Trump is an rear end in a top hat. He is an obnoxious curr. But the above is why people like me would vote for him instead of Hillary Clinton. So you don't believe that she would have expanded social safety nets and increase minimum wages and job protections for the parts of the country were jobs do exist? Because Trump ain't bringing a thing back to your dying towns.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:56
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SaTaMaS posted:Would telling them to go back to school and get an associate's degree in Advanced Manufacturing be ok, or would that also hurt their feelings? When they are already working two or three jobs and have $1200 in the bank? Not realistic.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:56
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SaTaMaS posted:Would telling them to go back to school and get an associate's degree in Advanced Manufacturing be ok, or would that also hurt their feelings? I'm sure going "Bootstraps!" to them will not backfire horribly.
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Nov 24, 2016 18:59
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Horseshoe theory posted:Just a friendly reminder that the growth of the US labor movement in the late 19th/early 20th century was heavily fueled on race-baiting. In short, even during relatively better times, plenty of people ( Also the massive, unprecedented growth that followed WW2 and lasted until the early 90s disproportionately favored white people.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:00
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With any luck Trump will get impeached/ get shot/ have heart attack/ resign and President Pence will plumb new depths in terms of unpopularity. However hope is a lie. He's going to have more terms than FDR.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:02
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It's time to stop pretending that the Democrats have offered any other economic answers the last 40 years other than saying 'get a degree' while conveniently standing idly by if not tacitly approving of the GOP decimation of working/middle class.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:04
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I kind of want to see Factory Towns come back. Not the kind that people are remembering with Rose-Colored Glasses that 'saved the town' or whatever. I want to see these people clamoring for factory jobs who are getting paid in Company Scrip that's only valid in that specific town instead of actual money so they can never, ever move while the company can just decide to raise the prices whenever they want. Then I want to see people trying to go 'no this is good, this is what I wanted'.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:05
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Oh yeah let's not forget the never ending attacks on the only real industry left where unskilled labor can get paid well: energy
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Nov 24, 2016 19:07
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Proud Christian Mom posted:It's time to stop pretending that the Democrats have offered any other economic answers the last 40 years other than saying 'get a degree' while conveniently standing idly by if not tacitly approving of the GOP decimation of working/middle class. Ineffective against isn't exactly approval.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:08
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Al-Saqr posted:I've always hypothesized that America losing out to China would require a monumentally stupid amount of bad mistakes across multiple levels of government and policy making across internal, external affairs that I thought that the American decision making institutions would never allow this cascade of self inflicted harm to actually happen. The Chinese are also really dumb and incompetent and they have had a significant amount of difficulty turning economic influence into geopolitical influence. The article goes into a bunch of Chinese "plans" but China's grand ambitions rarely if ever actually come to fruition. It also argues that the AIIB is going to replace the World Bank and the IMF despite it only having a small fraction of its capital and only lending in US Dollars. It's a really really bad article. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 19:08
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Oh yeah let's not forget the never ending attacks on the only real industry left where unskilled labor can get paid well: energy What kind of well paying "unskilled labor" do you think exists in Energy? Being a mudder or a longwall miner is a very loving skilled job.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:11
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gohmak posted:Ineffective against isn't exactly approval. Then again, the Blue Dogs/Southern Democrats, Reagan Democrats, Third-Way Democrats, etc. support the GOP's fundamental positions, so Proud Christian Mom is actually correct.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:11
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Rabble posted:I'm glad you feel this way. You and I are two votes in a sea of millions. Perhaps we should be looking at the people who voted for Trump despite all his obvious and very dangerous failings and see what they actually think. They don't like the trade deals, their guy says he's going to rip them up...their guy won. It's not a stretch to assume that the majority of these people feel shafted by both establishments. Asserting that trade deals were the primary factor behind the decline of US manufacturing jobs is pretty  Clinton was offering policies that would unequivocally have helped the Rust Belt etc rebuild and move in a direction other than pining for manufacturing jobs that will never, ever come back in the same quantity. Maybe not enough, but at it's core it's basically a messaging problem - hardly anybody is going to bother to look at the details of a policy platform, and not a whole lot of people are going to bother to look at media summaries of it. Democrats don't necessarily have to go Full Trump and lie and promise bigly on vague platitudes, but we definitely need punchier ways to summarize what good things we want to move towards.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:13
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Paradoxish posted:Free trade is an easy scapegoat for extremely complex economic problems that have been plaguing the developed world for decades. NAFTA was treated the same way. TPP is getting even more flak because there's been a wave of economic populism building in the US post-recession that's largely been flying under the radar since Occupy Wall Street stopped making headlines. There's legitimate concerns about the public sector or copyright stuff but also obvious benifits to some aspects of free trade. The biggest turn off is that amending the deal never seems to be considered and actual discussion seems impossible almost anywhere. It just dissolves into ad homs. There's always reactionaries on either side of the issue; do you think most people who are pro-TTIP have super considered reasons for supporting it? The best argument for rejecting it is that there's no clarity or dialogue. You just want to give up, get rid of it.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:13
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https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/801579893112782848
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Nov 24, 2016 19:14
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Trabisnikof posted:What kind of well paying "unskilled labor" do you think exists in Energy? Being a mudder or a longwall miner is a very loving skilled job. It just means no post-k12 education and you very much know that, so what are you playing
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Nov 24, 2016 19:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:It just means no post-k12 education and you very much know that, so what are you playing The reality that you can't just throw people at energy jobs with no skills and experience and have it be some massive employment driver. Artificial energy booms due to deregulation won't solve the employement issues.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:17
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Surprise Giraffe posted:There's legitimate concerns about the public sector or copyright stuff but also obvious benifits to some aspects of free trade. The biggest turn off is that amending the deal never seems to be considered and actual discussion seems impossible almost anywhere. It just dissolves into ad homs. There's always reactionaries on either side of the issue; do you think most people who are pro-TTIP have super considered reasons for supporting it? The best argument for rejecting it is that there's no clarity or dialogue. You just want to give up, get rid of it. It's also real tricky business making particular promises of what you're going to push for in a renegotiation before, you know, getting down in the diplomatic weeds of a renegotiation. I can quite solidly state that I would prefer a renegotiated TPP over either the one we're looking at or none at all (none at all being the worst choice imo), and I think most people here who don't want to torch the thing have pretty similar ideas on what it would be nice to fix.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:18
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Trabisnikof posted:The reality that you can't just throw people at energy jobs with no skills and experience and have it be some massive employment driver. Artificial energy booms due to deregulation won't solve the employement issues. Sure. But that's the whole issue we're about to die in nuclear hellfire over, isn't it? "More of the same" isn't a solution, but it's the only one they want and they'll burn down the republic to get it.
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Nov 24, 2016 19:18
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Jesus, what do we even have to choose from? A bombastic blowhard or a pathological liar? Christ, what a choice. So you voted for the guy who is both, and the most earth-shatteringly incompetent fuckhead the country has ever seen?
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Nov 24, 2016 19:18
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