fidel castro apologist observation thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > fidel castro apologist observation thread

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

cuba has a standard of living comparable to or exceeding the most advanced western countries despite being a tiny island nation under an unbelievably restrictive trade embargo for decades

in every conceivable metric it outstrips its neighbors and has managed to create and encourage specialized industries � health care being the most obvious example � which put equivalent services in some of the most highly developed economies on the planet to shame

if it managed to do this with a capitalist economy we'd be hailing cuba's successes relative to its size and development level in the same breath as south korea and japan

instead, the country that created a lung cancer vaccine and reforested 40 percent of its land mass, to name only a couple recent strides, was a bogeyman because of the cold war

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:16

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# ? May 18, 2024 18:02

Breakfast All Day: Oct 21, 2004

serious q for the neolibs itt: do you actually think castro was worse than batista, or that cuba is worse off for his rule vs a string of whatever dictators we wouldve placed?

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:18

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Fallen Hamprince posted:

same deal with thomas sankara, dude went after the unions and press and was well on his way to going full dictator but he got killed before he went really crazy so he's remember as the least flawed leftist revolutionary.

I wouldn't say that. He was much more mellow than the rest. He particularly went after one union for example.

Homework Explainer posted:

cuba has a standard of living comparable to or exceeding the most advanced western countries despite being a tiny island nation under an unbelievably restrictive trade embargo for decades

in every conceivable metric it outstrips its neighbors and has managed to create and encourage specialized industries � health care being the most obvious example � which put equivalent services in some of the most highly developed economies on the planet to shame

if it managed to do this with a capitalist economy we'd be hailing cuba's successes relative to its size and development level in the same breath as south korea and japan

instead, the country that created a lung cancer vaccine and reforested 40 percent of its land mass, to name only a couple recent strides, was a bogeyman because of the cold war

Cuba was already one of the most advanced nations in the Western hemisphere before Castro.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:17

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Homework Explainer posted:

cuba has a standard of living comparable to or exceeding the most advanced western countries despite being a tiny island nation under an unbelievably restrictive trade embargo for decades

in every conceivable metric it outstrips its neighbors and has managed to create and encourage specialized industries � health care being the most obvious example � which put equivalent services in some of the most highly developed economies on the planet to shame

if it managed to do this with a capitalist economy we'd be hailing cuba's successes relative to its size and development level in the same breath as south korea and japan

instead, the country that created a lung cancer vaccine and reforested 40 percent of its land mass, to name only a couple recent strides, was a bogeyman because of the cold war

Hit me with links about this because reading about forestry and reforestation is an extremely boring hobby of mine

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:19

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

DoctorGonzo posted:

BFF

lol how did this happen

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:20

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Breakfast All Day posted:

serious q for the neolibs itt: do you actually think castro was worse than batista, or that cuba is worse off for his rule vs a string of whatever dictators we wouldve placed?

Two people can be bad people.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:22

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

fidel was 70% good and 30% bad

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:23

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

he nearly caused a nuclear war but aside from that he sucks

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:23

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Baloogan posted:

he nearly caused a nuclear war but aside from that he sucks

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:24

Trumps Baby Hands: Mar 27, 2016; Silent white light filled the world. And the righteous and unrighteous alike were consumed in that holy fire.

Baloogan posted:

he nearly caused a nuclear war but aside from that he sucks

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:24

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Baloogan posted:

he nearly caused a nuclear war but aside from that he sucks

we could have had nuclear winter for the righteous cause of destroying capitalism, but instead we will get nuclear winter because someone calls donald fat

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:25

Trumps Baby Hands: Mar 27, 2016; Silent white light filled the world. And the righteous and unrighteous alike were consumed in that holy fire.

Disinterested posted:

fidel wanted nuclear war in 1962, was begging russia to let it be a sacrificial lamb for the small price of initiating the end of capitalism with nuclear fire

can I have a source on this, cause it sounds rad as hell

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:26

DoctorGonzo: Jul 25, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

lol how did this happen

Fidel visited Chile in 1971 and Pinochet was Commander in Chief of the Santiago Garrison. Allende apointed him as part of Fidel entourage.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:26

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Trumps Baby Hands posted:

can I have a source on this, cause it sounds rad as hell

its a bit overstated. fidel thought an invasion was imminent and pushed for nuclear war if that happened

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/opinion/how-castro-held-the-world-hostage.html

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:28

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Atrocious Joe posted:

Hit me with links about this because reading about forestry and reforestation is an extremely boring hobby of mine

i misremembered, it's 30 percent up from about 17 percent in 1959

there's not a lot in english unfortunately. this is the best i could find

that story is based on the 2015 report and i was able to scare up the 2014 report for reference

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:28

Deimus: Aug 17, 2012

Well, hey the link may be biased, but it gives a better point of view than 'Cuba is literally Tropico' or something.

http://www.invent-the-future.org/2013/07/20-reasons-to-support-cuba/

Also wasn't the USA literally going to invade Cuba just before the missile crisis, like why goons blame commies.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:28

cams: Mar 28, 2003

https://twitter.com/BRANDONWARDELL/status/802413938143096832

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:30

DoctorGonzo: Jul 25, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Deimus posted:

Well, hey the link may be biased, but it gives a better point of view than 'Cuba is literally Tropico' or something.

http://www.invent-the-future.org/2013/07/20-reasons-to-support-cuba/

Also wasn't the USA literally going to invade Cuba just before the missile crisis, like why goons blame commies.

Well the resistance hoped for backup in Bahia de Cochinos but JFK refused.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:30

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cams posted:

https://twitter.com/BRANDONWARDELL/status/802413938143096832

hosed up there wasn't video of this

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:36

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

gr8 black friday

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:38

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

if we did invade our beaches totally would be all "POP!" and we would be all :argh:

and the air force would drop a whole pile of whoop rear end and then europe would go "k bye"

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:41

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iksYRLDo3w8

# ? Nov 26, 2016 08:55

Olga Gurlukovich: Nov 13, 2016

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

https://twitter.com/ByYourLogic/status/802390748935155712

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:12

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

Homework Explainer posted:

cuba has a standard of living comparable to or exceeding the most advanced western countries despite being a tiny island nation under an unbelievably restrictive trade embargo for decades

lol

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:14

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

https://twitter.com/VeraMBergen/status/802405813469913088

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:14

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

fidel castro, otherwise known as "poster boy for cartoonish dictatorship", provided only the highest standard of living

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:15

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Yinlock posted:

fidel castro, otherwise known as "poster boy for cartoonish dictatorship", provided only the highest standard of living

the thing deimus linked earlier in the thread has the relevant numbers, perhaps you'd like to dispute them instead of posting "lol" and calling it good

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:16

Berated Tham: May 6, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

punk rebel ecks, Cuba is a Democracy! Check out this article: https://www.liberationnews.org/08-03-04-cuban-elections-lesson-in-worker-html/

Gloria La Riva posted:

Cuban elections a lesson in workers� democracy

On Feb. 24, Cuba�s National Assembly of People�s Power conducted elections for its top leadership and the 31 members of the Council of State.

The event was recognized as a historic proceeding. After 49 years leading the country, first as Prime Minister and then as President, revolutionary leader Fidel Castro announced on Feb. 18 that he would no longer accept the posts of President of the Council of State and Commander-in-Chief of the military.

As he explained in a Feb. 18 message to the Cuban people, �It would be a betrayal to my conscience to accept a responsibility requiring more mobility and dedication than I am physically able to offer.� Castro is still an elected delegate to the National Assembly and First Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba.

Of the 614 newly-elected delegates to the National Assembly�Cuba�s parliament�609 met in an all-day session to nominate and elect the Assembly�s leadership and the Council of State. The delegates were elected Jan. 20 for five-year terms.

The body�s composition stands out for its diversity. Two-thirds are serving for the first time. Women make up 43.18 percent of the National Assembly with 219 members, ranking Cuba�s parliament third worldwide in women�s government participation. There are workers of all fields and members of all sectors of Cuban society�from industrial production to tourism, farmers, teachers, intellectuals and cultural artists, scientists, members of the military and students.

Ra�l Castro, the newly-elected President of the Council of State, will also be the President of the Council of Ministers. Jos� Ram�n Machado Ventura, a longtime leader in the Cuban revolution, was elected by the Assembly to be First Vice-President of the Council of State.

The all-day parliamentary session�the seventh since the establishment of the National Assembly of People�s Power�began in an organized and calm fashion at 10 a.m. at Havana�s Convention Center. Mar�a Esther Reus, President of the National Electoral Commission and Cuba�s Minister of Justice, presided.

The nomination and election of all the leading officials of the Assembly and Council of State took up the rest of the day. Cuban national television and radio stations transmitted much of the proceedings live.

Although the U.S. media universally refers to Cuba as a dictatorship without �free� elections, in fact Cuba�s electoral system is a highly organized and participatory parliamentary system in which the delegates represent all of Cuba�s socialist society.

Building a workers� democracy

The concepts of democracy and representation in Cuba�s socialism are fundamentally different from the U.S. capitalist system.

Following U.S. military intervention in Cuba in 1898, the Cuban political system was entirely subverted by U.S. imperialism. Members of the Cuban ruling class competed for political power in a multi-party electoral system riddled with corruption and fraud�both levers used by Washington to guarantee its interests. When the multi-party system did not suffice to keep the Cuban masses in check, the U.S. government backed dictatorial rule.

The lessons from the period would largely influence Cuba�s revolutionary political system. According to Arnold August�s �Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections,� when Fidel Castro brought up the need for elections in one of the many mass public meetings that followed the 1959 revolution, the proposal was shouted down. To the workers and peasants, elections had meant political disenfranchisement and subjugation to imperialist interests.

In the course of the revolution, however, Cuba�s capitalist class was eliminated and the construction of a workers� state began. This opened the way for a new type of elections. In 1974, local and provincial levels of state were created in the province of Matanzas and elections to those bodies were organized.

That experiment served as the foundation for the electoral system known as People�s Power, enshrined in the constitution approved by popular referendum in 1976.

In Cuba, there are no private property owners who hold sway over elected officials as in the U.S. Congress. There are no capitalists who control factories, the healthcare system, mines and land with the power to shut down workplaces and lay off thousands of workers. The productive forces, land and natural resources are the common property of the people, with a state and government that constitute workers� power.

Bourgeois democracy: workers need not apply

In the United States, it is the normal order of business for corporate lobbyists to bribe and influence every Congressional member with untold millions of dollars in order to mold a government that manages the affairs of the capitalist state. Hefty campaign contributions, kickbacks and even corporate positions after their congressional stint is over are all �business as usual� for virtually every elected official who reaches the pinnacles of Congress.

Representation for the population, primarily the working class, is without guarantees and more removed as monopoly strengthens and the capitalist class grows more powerful.

Then there are the unelected institutions such as the U.S. Supreme Court�whose judges are appointed for life�and the U.S. Federal Reserve System, whose power has tremendous influence on the economy and, consequently, on the lives of millions of workers.

Pentagon generals, U.S. military contractors and oil companies have the real say in U.S. government spending. Corporations like ExxonMobil, Boeing, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Halliburton and Blackwater profit immensely off the war.

In short, the U.S. government acts wholly on behalf of the capitalist class. Only when the workers and great social movements�such as the Civil Rights movement, the labor struggle of the 1930s or the anti-war struggle during Vietnam�have intervened has the capitalist government been forced to make concessions that benefit the vast majority of the population.

That is why during the debates of the Democratic candidates, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton claim in a back-handed way to be against the Bush administration�s tactics in handling the war in Iraq. Every time the Bush administration asks for another multi-bullion-dollar war �emergency� appropriation, however, the House and Senate votes are almost unanimous.

Obama and Clinton have each voted for every single war appropriations bill.

Republicans may be more barefaced about their support for war and unfettered profits, but capitalist rule and the political super-structure is a twin-party operation.

In Cuba, the revolutionary Rebel army and the masses overthrew the old capitalist state, and in the first months and years carried out sweeping economic changes that eliminated the capitalists� rule. The nascent revolution then began to institutionalize the government on the basis of socialist property, whereby production is decided on the basis of meeting the peoples� needs.

In a socialist economic system, the government, media and all institutions that are part of the superstructure reflect common ownership of the country�s wealth. In a capitalist economic system, those institutions reflect private ownership of the country�s wealth.

Delegates in all levels of Cuba�s government, from the Municipal, Provincial, and National Assemblies, are elected in their neighborhoods, without the privileges that capitalist politicians come to expect. In Cuba, Assembly members continue to work at their regular jobs, and get no salary from their parliamentary responsibilities.

Fidel�s voice will continue to provide guidance to the revolution. Unlike imperialist pundits would have us believe, however, Cuba�s political system does not rest on one man�s power but on the collective participation of millions of Cubans�a worker�s democracy that will continue to develop and thrive.

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# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:16

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

Homework Explainer posted:

the thing deimus linked earlier in the thread has the relevant numbers, perhaps you'd like to dispute them instead of posting "lol" and calling it good

lol

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:17

Olga Gurlukovich: Nov 13, 2016

Atrocious Joe posted:

State sponsored torture on Cuban soil is something all the best countries are doing anyway

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:19

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

Baloogan posted:

he nearly caused a nuclear war but aside from that he sucks

I thought you loved nuclear war?

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:19

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

i will have a serious discussion on loving anything except for homework explainer unironically mourning fidel castro because communism is a flawless jewel that can never fail

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:19

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Yinlock posted:

i will have a serious discussion on loving anything except for homework explainer unironically mourning fidel castro because communism is a flawless jewel that can never fail

communists aren't utopians idiot

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:22

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

i am incredibly glad that communism is an idiosyncrasy of a weird forum poster rather than anything i have to worry about. USSR might have won the cold war, wouldn't that be scary lol

a homework explainer on every corner, checkin yo papers

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:23

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

Homework Explainer posted:

communists aren't utopians idiot

l o l

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:24

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

we could have had nuclear winter for the righteous cause of destroying capitalism, but instead we will get nuclear winter because someone calls donald fat

fattism is a righteous cause comrade

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:24

Bad Hat Meter: Jun 24, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

Berated Tham posted:

punk rebel ecks, Cuba is a Democracy! Check out this article: https://www.liberationnews.org/08-03-04-cuban-elections-lesson-in-worker-html/

Thanks so much for posting this excellent article about Cuba's revolutionary democracy, Berated Tham!

There is no doubt that Comrade Fidel Castro will remain a great inspiration to progressive revolutionaries worldwide for many years to come.

Speaking of inspiration, check out this super beautiful and inspirational video about the legendary life of Comrade Fidel Castro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4pE45eN07k

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# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:27

Pluskut Tukker: May 20, 2012

Homework Explainer posted:

the thing deimus linked earlier in the thread has the relevant numbers, perhaps you'd like to dispute them instead of posting "lol" and calling it good

Lol at the idea of believing numbers produced by, or with the consent of, the Cuban regime.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:28

Fidel Castronaut: Dec 25, 2004; Houston, we're Havana problem.

yes, viva me. thanks for the warm wishes, forums comrades.

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:32

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# ? May 18, 2024 18:02

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Pluskut Tukker posted:

Lol at the idea of believing numbers produced by, or with the consent of, the Cuban regime.

yeah the cia world factbook is notoriously lax in verifying basic information about countries it lists

# ? Nov 26, 2016 09:33

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