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Kind of looks like Mammon's Key is missing a chunk. The current page shows it looking like the symbol for Venus, kind of, and the page in which White Chain talks about how Zaid is gonna be the successor, his Key looks like it lost a fragment. No wonder he's so low on the Demiurge totem pole and hasn't showed up in public for a while, he's working with an incomplete key.
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Nov 26, 2016 01:42
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Well, she wouldn't be the Cio we know without this experience, that's for sure.
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Nov 26, 2016 05:04
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Update. Suffice to say, a lot of people here were wrong about various things.
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Nov 26, 2016 05:05
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Don't stop me now, I'm having such a good time, I'm having a ball...
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Nov 26, 2016 05:06
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Huh, interesting that it was Preem Nand who brought her back. It sounds like they were more similar back when she was ebon, though, so it makes sense. Also why he ordered their daughters to bring Cio back, not kill her. It just goes to show....
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Nov 26, 2016 05:11
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man you probably have to be pretty bad to make the Concordance stop dicking around and come after you in numbers like that
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Nov 26, 2016 05:13
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I doubt the angels gave a poo poo whether or not she killed slaves by the bushel, but she did threaten the balance of power via siphoning might from Mammon. Also, I wonder how tough angels are relative to demons.
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Nov 26, 2016 08:38
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  extremely rude in hindsight
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Nov 26, 2016 08:57
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also are those Vacus needles in Yabalchoath there? if so i guess they merely restrain devils instead of knocking them back to the void like they do for angels.
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Nov 26, 2016 09:07
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paranoid randroid posted:also are those Vacus needles in Yabalchoath there? if so i guess they merely restrain devils instead of knocking them back to the void like they do for angels. I don't know that she's "restrained" so much as "quite dead."
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Nov 26, 2016 09:16
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Yeah that's not an arrest, it's an object lesson.
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Nov 26, 2016 09:28
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the Mammon Death Accountants seem to have made a point of cutting all her hair off in the middle of the Heretic's Court, which seems more like something youd do to humiliate someone who isnt quite dead yet. or yeah i guess they could have just straight-up loving executed her in front of Himself and said "now dont do that poo poo ever again." point being, i guess, the Vacus needles "merely" gently caress devils up pretty bad instead of being an insta-deincarnation paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 09:35
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Given that the only part of a devil that isn't flame is the mask (and maybe any clothes), and she's clearly not disincorporated yet there, I'm assuming she's not quite dead yet at that point. Not that it really matters much, mind. (Actually, have we seen a devil actually die yet? Vladok's stunt wasn't "death", so it doesn't count.)
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Nov 26, 2016 10:23
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Yeah I don't think you drag a corpse in front of the council and argue with them with it all pinned up like that, but I don't know, this comic is pretty drat metal
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Nov 26, 2016 10:23
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yeah its hardly important what specifically happened to Yabalchoath, because the take away is that even if youre the baddest True Devil in Throne, the Concordance is more than happy to drown you in grunt angels and the demiurges are more than happy to nurse grudges for as long as it takes to get you
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Nov 26, 2016 11:06
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Cio does seem reasonably genuine here, too, which I guess is a little extra confirmation for anyone who needed it that just as it's possible for angels to be evil (hi there, Juggs, how's it going?), it's possible to have heroic devils. Kind of seems like both she and White Chain are outcast from their societies for being a little too nice.
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Nov 26, 2016 11:16
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Don't quite get it... she keeps saying "Mammon won" and "no one steals from Mammon and lives", but it seems like she more or less got away and the angels later kicked her rear end when they decided she was a threat. Is there any in indication that Mammon got the better of her, or got the key she stole back?
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Nov 26, 2016 12:09
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Magnus Manfist posted:Don't quite get it... she keeps saying "Mammon won" and "no one steals from Mammon and lives", but it seems like she more or less got away and the angels later kicked her rear end when they decided she was a threat. Is there any in indication that Mammon got the better of her, or got the key she stole back? It seems to be implied that Mammon was behind the angels getting involved maybe?
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Nov 26, 2016 12:13
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Newly-summoned Cio is holding a chain in the last panel, which I guess clarifies the new relationship she had with her husband.
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Nov 26, 2016 12:33
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah I don't think you drag a corpse in front of the council and argue with them with it all pinned up like that, but I don't know, this comic is pretty drat metal 
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Nov 26, 2016 12:35
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Mr. Lobe posted:It seems to be implied that Mammon was behind the angels getting involved maybe? More than implied, Cio's telling the story of how Mammon bribed her minions and then kicked her rear end. The angels were probably bribed into helping to storm her stronghold, as well. No easier way to decide that someone is a problem than being paid to decide someone is a problem.
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Nov 26, 2016 12:43
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Hiveminded posted:Newly-summoned Cio is holding a chain in the last panel, which I guess clarifies the new relationship she had with her husband. I think it's one of the chains that hooks were dangling from in a previous panel.
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Nov 26, 2016 12:45
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Schwarzwald posted:I think it's one of the chains that hooks were dangling from in a previous panel. That's what I initially thought, but the way it's dangling from her hand (as if she picked it up off the floor) and the much greater thickness of the hooked chain makes me think that they're different. Of course it could just be me looking too much into what might be an art error, which has never ever never happened ever in the history of this comic and its readers.
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Nov 26, 2016 12:58
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Magnus Manfist posted:Don't quite get it... she keeps saying "Mammon won" and "no one steals from Mammon and lives", but it seems like she more or less got away and the angels later kicked her rear end when they decided she was a threat. Is there any in indication that Mammon got the better of her, or got the key she stole back? It appears to me that when she was dragged before the devil courts they broke her mask which desummoned her and effectively killed her until her husband assembled the pieces and reformed her mask and she was resummoned with a reformed personality and vague memories. It also seems to imply that Mammon bought his key back from the angels, either directly after the fact or as payment for supporting the angels against her. Yak of Wrath fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 13:09
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I rather suspect there's going to be a few revelations to come about what actually went down in the vault with Mammon when she stole it. I'm surprised it took that long for her to get crushed, to be honest. You'd think even if Mammon was willing to play the long game, the other six wouldn't tolerate a wild key out there in Throne for a single day and would obliterate her. And it doesn't exactly seem she was hiding it.
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Nov 26, 2016 13:22
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MikeJF posted:I rather suspect there's going to be a few revelations to come about what actually went down in the vault with Mammon when she stole it. She wasn't a rogue demiurge, she was a rogue emissary (see the previous page). Much more of an embarrassment than a serious problem.
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Nov 26, 2016 13:32
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My reading is that she got the full key, I mean its said a lot that she stole his key outright and she is about the only one whos ever actually managed to wrest godhood from someone who has it. She's even depicted with a crown! She wasn't an emisarry she was a fully fledged keybearer... the problem was she was also well crazy and Mammon was crafty and powerful in other ways, specifically he had enough clout and political leverage to get her killed without a crown at all, implying that its not just personal physical power that rules the multiverse. Basically she got a short, sharp lesson in actual power. But also explains why she got to take her time with it considering it'd be difficult. I'm kinda glad she still has her carapace, I thought for sure it got art-upgraded out of existence. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 15:17
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Motherfucker posted:My reading is that she got the full key, I mean its said a lot that she stole his key outright and she is about the only one whos ever actually managed to wrest godhood from someone who has it. She's even depicted with a crown! She wasn't an emisarry she was a fully fledged keybearer... the problem was she was also well crazy and Mammon was crafty and powerful in other ways, specifically he had enough clout and political leverage to get her killed without a crown at all, implying that its not just personal physical power that rules the multiverse. The last update literally says "I only stole a tiny little sliver of Mammon's power" so no I don't think so. I re-read and dunno why I didn't get it - looks like the angels attacked because she was a threat, Mammon knew they would do so and paid off everyone who might have defended her. I doubt he paid off the angels themselves because they're clearly uninterested in wealth (turn into omnicidal motorbike maniacs sure, but taking bribes????) But yeah it does imply that Mammon prefers indirect power to just going straight to war. Maybe he was trying to keep it secret from the other demiurges that he lost a part of his key? Doesn't seem like common knowledge - White Chain knew because the angel concordance knew, but why would they tell anyone - and giving a part of the key away to emissaries might be common enough that the others wouldn't notice. Maybe why he didn't show up to the meeting.
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Nov 26, 2016 16:09
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Magnus Manfist posted:The last update literally says "I only stole a tiny little sliver of Mammon's power" so no I don't think so. that's actually what feeds my theory in that, even if she got his magic bullshit. The guy still has the 'backing' of the angels (not their alliance but their backing in this conflict) and more resources than Cio could ever hope to wield. His power base is broader. its not just his key he, the guy himself, is really really powerful.
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Nov 26, 2016 16:32
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Motherfucker posted:My reading is that she got the full key, I mean its said a lot that she stole his key outright and she is about the only one whos ever actually managed to wrest godhood from someone who has it. She's even depicted with a crown! She wasn't an emisarry she was a fully fledged keybearer... the problem was she was also well crazy and Mammon was crafty and powerful in other ways, specifically he had enough clout and political leverage to get her killed without a crown at all, implying that its not just personal physical power that rules the multiverse. Your radical hypothesis that this character stole some superpowers seems sound.
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Nov 26, 2016 16:56
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Well the argument is whether she stole the entire cosmic power of the ruler of 1/7th of creation, or just the tiniest bit of it, enough to be a local badass until the big boys start paying attention. Which uh, maybe. It's pretty interesting that Mammon seems to use soft power, but I'd say the whole cosmology so far has shown that raw power is king, and no one currently around compares to the 7 in raw power. If the angels had any chance against someone with a full key they'd probably try to take the 7 down, they hate them. I think Mammon's money and politics counts because he's on a relatively even keel with the others. He has raw power backing it up, and he's using it to make up the difference. If he lost all his real power and was just a glorified banker he'd get squished while impotently whining about how this would affect their insurance premiums.
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Nov 26, 2016 16:59
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SunAndSpring posted:I doubt the angels gave a poo poo whether or not she killed slaves by the bushel, but she did threaten the balance of power via siphoning might from Mammon. There was a question about this recently: quote:Prime Angels in their prime (pun intended) versus Ebon devils in their full might... Who would you bet your money on, generally? quote:Prime angels. There’s a reason devils have kept mostly to the shadows in Throne. I would also imagine that even regular angels are a lot more organized than devils. And since Another important question answered: quote:If all but the most self-realized human and servant consciousness eventually dissipates in the void - what are the SINNERS who make up Juggernaut Star's biomechanical motorcycle? quote:just some rowdy, dirty boys, some real rambunctious fight boys ready for good punch up
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Nov 26, 2016 16:58
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Abaddon also said however that Himself would thrash any Prime Angel in a 1v1.
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Nov 26, 2016 17:47
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Pureauthor posted:Abaddon also said however that Himself would thrash any Prime Angel in a 1v1. AND IN THE RED CORNER A DUDE CHAINED UP IN A BOX
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Nov 26, 2016 17:59
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Magnus Manfist posted:AND IN THE RED CORNER The role of Himself will be portrayed by Glenn Close
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Nov 26, 2016 18:07
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Wonder who locked up Himself. Looks like his cage is impaled with a bunch of Vacus Needles, so chances are the angels shoved him in that box and the other Ebon Devils really don't want to draw their ire by opening it, seeing as how it only took like 5 normal rear end angels to kill what was probably the strongest one.
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Nov 26, 2016 19:22
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the answer to that sinners question makes me think abaddon is a fan of the mcelroy retinue
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Nov 26, 2016 19:40
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SunAndSpring posted:Wonder who locked up Himself. Looks like his cage is impaled with a bunch of Vacus Needles, so chances are the angels shoved him in that box and the other Ebon Devils really don't want to draw their ire by opening it, seeing as how it only took like 5 normal rear end angels to kill what was probably the strongest one. Alternatively, none of them want to be the closest thing to a really pissed-off Himself who's just been given his mobility back.
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Nov 26, 2016 19:47
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My reading is that Yabalchaoth stole Mammon's entire key, but the key of creation is only a fraction of Mammon's power - the keys are prizes for the powerful, they don't themselves make demiurges.
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Nov 26, 2016 19:48
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Farg posted:the answer to that sinners question makes me think abaddon is a fan of the mcelroy retinue I can't wait for allison to get pissed at the fantasy gashapon and try to break it open for all the sweet, sweet goods
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Nov 26, 2016 20:12
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