uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Huzanko posted:

Yep. The persistent pushing of the narrative that Trump is just a dummy is loving hilarious.

Is thinking that he is professionally incompetent for the job of President the same as thinking he is a dummy or not?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 07:55

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:31

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

SSNeoman posted:

I hope neo-liberalism will become the new democrat platform since you loving shitlords don't shut the gently caress up about it.

it already is fyi

has been for a good 40 years

# ? Nov 27, 2016 07:56

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

it already is fyi

has been for a good 40 years

When you think about it, the mimimum wage is pretty neoliberal.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 07:58

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

When you think about it, the mimimum wage is pretty neoliberal.

you mean keeping it as low as possible as to ensure business can operate as smoothly as possible? yes, it is

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:02

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

you mean keeping it as low as possible as to ensure business can operate as smoothly as possible? yes, it is

Ah yes, the Democratic platform of "keep the minimum wage as low as possible"

Edit: Don't worry you can go ahead and shift the goalposts to "sure I specifically said the platform was neoliberal, but really platforms don't matter"

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:03

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

For anyone who thinks that Trump's anti-Semitism and appointment of a literal white supremacist will unite the Jewish community against him, I'm sorry to say that it's not looking so simple. The Jewish right is in outright denial, Orthodox Jews seem to be betting that theocratic moves by the Trump administration will be to their net benefit, and Zionist groups are choosing to focus on Bannon's support for Israel while handwaving away his anti-Semitic undertones.

http://www.jta.org/2016/11/22/news-opinion/politics/from-adl-to-zoa-two-events-showcase-diverging-jewish-rhetoric-under-trump

quote:

Thirty years ago, it would have been safe to say the American Jewish community agreed on the need to fight for Israel and against anti-Semitism.

It may still be true that most American Jews support those causes. But now, apparently, some people aren’t so sure what either of those things mean. One Jew’s support of Israel is another’s attack on the Jewish state. And as we’ve seen this week, one Jew’s condemnation of an alleged promoter of anti-Semitism is another’s smear on a purported defender of the Jews.

Nowhere did this emerge more clearly than at an Anti-Defamation League conference and subsequent Zionist Organization of America dinner. They were held days apart from each other, on the same floor of the same posh hotel in Manhattan. Both organizations claimed to fight for the same things: opposing Jew-hatred and supporting the Jewish homeland.

But their rhetoric could hardly have been more different.

The ADL, which strives to be nonpartisan in fighting anti-Semitism and bigotry (and as a result has been criticized from the right and the left), called out anti-Semitism on both ends of the political spectrum at its conference Thursday. CEO Jonathan Greenblatt aimed his strongest fire on the anti-Semitism and Islamophobia heard among some supporters of President-elect Donald Trump’s campaign, and instances in which the campaign itself sent messages that echoed anti-Semitic themes. He pledged to sign up as a Muslim if, as Trump hinted during the campaign, a Muslim “database” were to be created. But the panel immediately after him focused on anti-Israel activism on the left.

“The harassment and hate that bubbled up around the campaign was unlike anything we’ve seen in recent history,” Greenblatt said. “The American Jewish community, our community, has not seen this level of anti-Semitism in mainstream political and public discourse since the 1930s.”

The ADL was among the first of several mainstream Jewish organizations to condemn the hiring of senior Trump adviser Stephen Bannon, who used to run Breitbart News, a website accused of publishing anti-Semitic, misogynist and racist articles. The Conservative and Reform movements, which together represent most affiliated American Jews, soon followed.

These were the same organizations that, three very long months ago, criticized the Black Lives Matter movement for accusing Israel of genocide. There was broad consensus, at least among American Jewish organizations, in condemning the BLM statement. In addition to the ADL and all three major denominations, groups ranging from right to left on Israel slammed the “genocide” claim, as did the Jewish Federations of North America and the American Jewish Committee.

No similar consensus on Bannon has coalesced among the American Jewish alphabet soup: JFNA and AJC, as well as major Orthodox groups, have stayed silent on Bannon. And at the ZOA’s dinner Sunday night, an entirely different Jewish narrative emerged.

In the same room where Greenblatt had admonished the Trump campaign on Thursday, ZOA President Morton Klein on Sunday welcomed the president-elect. In his speech, Klein joked that he would have preferred a lower IQ and more girlfriends in high school, then quipped, “Donald Trump told me to say that. It’s guy talk.” Minutes later, to raucous cheers, he praised Trump for being tough on Iran. “Thank God we have Donald Trump,” Klein said.

In an invocation earlier in the night, Dr. Alan Mazurek, a ZOA officer from Long Island, said Trump’s election was “divinely driven” and that “once again the United States will be blessed.” When honoree Bernie Marcus, a co-founder of The Home Depot and a Trump supporter, mentioned the New York Times, the audience booed. Marcus said he was “one of the happiest people in the world to see some sense come into this White House.”

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz, a self-described enthusiastic Hillary Clinton supporter who was honored later that night, drew boos when he pointed out that Clinton won the popular vote.

Far from criticizing Bannon, ZOA had advertised that he would attend the dinner, headlining at least one email with that news. In the end, he didn’t show up. But that didn’t stop attendees from praising him.

“I like the appointment of Steve Bannon a lot,” said Justin Bender, 23, a consultant from Philadelphia. “I think he’s not afraid to say what he likes. Whether you agree or disagree with Breitbart, he ran it very well. You don’t have to agree with everything, and the content on the website, to have a great environment with everyone running it.”

Bender, like several others at the dinner, dismissed critics who say Breitbart News has published anti-Semitic articles, or that Bannon has tapped into anti-Semitic tropes in criticizing “globalists” and “international bankers.” Some said the content wasn’t anti-Semitic at all. Some adopted Klein’s position that Bannon himself — who employs Jews and is pro-Israel, and under whom Breitbart News published lavishly pro-Israel articles out of its Jerusalem bureau — certainly isn’t an anti-Semite.

“I think Bannon is a friend of traditional American values, and he’s a friend of traditional American allies, including Israel,” said Steve Crane of Philadelphia, who co-founded a site to monitor media coverage of Israel. “He has hired Muslims, he has hired Jews, he has hired traditional Americans, he has hired gays, gay Jews, all the types of diversity people pay homage to, but don’t do.”

More than one person explained that featuring anti-Semitic content was just part of Breitbart’s goal of including a multiplicity of perspectives in the media. If outlets could present the liberal perspective, said Philadelphian Edward Mackouse, 73, white supremacists could have a say, too.

“I think you need someone strong to balance with the leftist media,” said Mackouse, who was wearing a red “Make America Great Again” hat adorned with pins. “I think the stuff we see on the left about only Black Lives Matter, with Clinton, needs to be balanced. The threats of what this does in America, starting only Black Lives Matter, gives support to the Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan in saying only white lives matter.”

The prospect of Bannon attending the dinner drew several hundred Jewish protestors to the hotel, chanting things like, “Donald Trump, it’s your fault; Stephen Bannon, oy gevalt!” The protest was organized by IfNotNow, a Jewish group that opposes the Israeli occupation.

Rabbi Jill Jacobs, who heads the left-leaning rabbinic human rights group T’ruah, said she hoped the protest leads to a robust, sustained Jewish activist movement against any bigoted action by Trump.

“That lack of respect will galvanize more of the Jewish resistance to what comes next,” she said. “That resistance isn’t going to just come from the left wing of the Jewish community. It’s going to come from the mainstream.”

American Jews splintered over the Jewish state long ago. Are settlements pro-Israel or anti-Israel? What about the Iran deal? Or peace negotiations?

Now, it appears, the same cracks are showing in how they perceive threats to the Jews. The ADL, while emphasizing that it is “not aware of any anti-Semitic statements made by Bannon himself,” is nonetheless troubled that Breitbart has “served as a platform for a wide range of bigotry” aimed at Muslims, women and occasionally Jews. Such bigotry, it insists, cannot be ignored or forgiven because the site is also pro-Israel.

The ADL worries that if intolerance is allowed to go mainstream once again, Jews will eventually pay the price. Its statement opposing Bannon called for presidential appointees who are “committed to the well-being of all our country’s people and who exemplify the values of pluralism and tolerance that makes our country great.”

The ZOA, meanwhile, counts Bannon as friend, pointing out the ways he has defended Israel, opposed the Iran nuclear deal and criticized leftists who bash Israel. And it wants to know why the ADL and other groups haven’t criticized the pending appointment as Democratic National Committee chair of Rep. Keith Ellison (Minn.), whom ZOA regards as an “Israel-basher” with “ties to radical anti-Israel and anti-Semitic groups.” When it opposes a presidential appointment, as it did Monday in denouncing Gen. James Mattis as Trump’s reportedly leading candidate for secretary of defense, it focuses on the threat to what it sees as Israel’s interests.

Noting statements by Mattis in support of a two-state solution and critical of the settlements, the ZOA wrote that it is “remarkable” that “Mattis expressed such a hostile attitude towards standing by our ally Israel.”

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:05

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

Ah yes, the Democratic platform of "keep the minimum wage as low as possible"

Edit: Don't worry you can go ahead and shift the goalposts to "sure I specifically said the platform was neoliberal, but really platforms don't matter"

miniscule increases to the minimum wage that don't even keep up with inflation don't really count as increasing it, but I can understand why the democrats ensure their voting base is kept as financially illiterate as possible

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:05

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

miniscule increases to the minimum wage that don't even keep up with inflation don't really count as increasing it, but I can understand why the democrats ensure their voting base is kept as financially illiterate as possible

So does that make Sanders a neoliberal too? Since the Democratic Platform adopted his $15 an hour minimum wage. If the minimum wage plank is neoliberal so is Sander's minimum wage proposal.

https://berniesanders.com/15-federal-minimum-wage-included-democratic-platform/

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:08

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Trabisnikof posted:

When you think about it, the mimimum wage is pretty neoliberal.

Well frankly its an attempt to give Capital a weapon that doesn't involve rampant brutalization against unionization.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:08

FactsAreUseless: Feb 16, 2011

Main Paineframe posted:

For anyone who thinks that Trump's anti-Semitism and appointment of a literal white supremacist will unite the Jewish community against him, I'm sorry to say that it's not looking so simple. The Jewish right is in outright denial, Orthodox Jews seem to be betting that theocratic moves by the Trump administration will be to their net benefit, and Zionist groups are choosing to focus on Bannon's support for Israel while handwaving away his anti-Semitic undertones.

http://www.jta.org/2016/11/22/news-opinion/politics/from-adl-to-zoa-two-events-showcase-diverging-jewish-rhetoric-under-trump

My 80-year-old Jewish grandfather voted for Trump. His family were Russian refugees.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:09

Unormal: Nov 16, 2004; Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!; Fun Shoe

Modern healthcare was a mistake for democracy.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:11

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

Trabisnikof posted:

Lol ok buddy you tell me this isn't contrarian http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2009/10/creed_is_good.html

It's not. Saying you like a Grammy winning band who've been chart toppers multiple times isn't even contrarian by middle school standards. If you seriously think that's contrarian, then I feel bad for you since you don't have a chance in hell of surviving the next four years.

icantfindaname posted:

Privatization of utilities and infrastructure isn't as salient an issue in the US compared to say the UK because a lot of that is at the state level and the US historically had a lot less state ownership there to begin with, with the major exception of primary schooling. I would say the most distinct characteristics of neoliberalism in the US are an indifference to racial inequality, a fondness of privatizing schools in particular (get all the impoverished black people away from the rich), and a strong resistance to expanding universal entitlements like education, healthcare and SS

So then what's it called when all this is done under the pretense that it's anti-racist? :v:

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:13

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

Unormal posted:

Modern healthcare was a mistake for democracy.

Please don't troll thanks

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:14

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

Trabisnikof posted:

When you think about it, the mimimum wage is pretty neoliberal.

Whose minimum wage? Haiti's?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:19

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

So does that make Sanders a neoliberal too? Since the Democratic Platform adopted his $15 an hour minimum wage. If the minimum wage plank is neoliberal so is Sander's minimum wage proposal.

https://berniesanders.com/15-federal-minimum-wage-included-democratic-platform/

i thought we were talking about parties, not people

but yes, some of the things bernie sanders supports are neoliberal policies, does that really shock you when it's been the economic dogma for the past 50 years?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:21

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

MizPiz posted:

It's not. Saying you like a Grammy winning band who've been chart toppers multiple times isn't even contrarian by middle school standards. If you seriously think that's contrarian, then I feel bad for you since you don't have a chance in hell of surviving the next four years.

So then what's it called when all this is done under the pretense that it's anti-racist?

You seem to be simply confused about the meaning of the word contrarian. It just means picking points opposite popular opinions with the purpose of gaining attention. So writing an article about how Creed is actually a good and under appreciated band is a near textbook definition.

But if you don't trust me, have a source:

quote:

Being contrarian sometimes pays off. Online magazine Slate is now 20 years old, and while its strong takes are stronger than ever and its contrarianism as contrarian as ever, it�s also more self-aware � and far past its pimply, tumultuous teenage years, thanks in part to its well-positioned audio sibling Panoply.

http://www.niemanlab.org/2016/09/slate-now-20-years-old-reflects-on-the-value-of-taking-the-long-view-and-not-chasing-digital-media-trends/

NewForumSoftware posted:

i thought we were talking about parties, not people

but yes, some of the things bernie sanders supports are neoliberal policies, does that really shock you when it's been the economic dogma for the past 50 years?

You've stretched the meaning of the word "neoliberal" to be absolutely meaningless if a $15/hr minimum wage indexed to inflation is now a neoliberal policy.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:23

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Trabisnikof posted:

So does that make Sanders a neoliberal too? Since the Democratic Platform adopted his $15 an hour minimum wage. If the minimum wage plank is neoliberal so is Sander's minimum wage proposal.

https://berniesanders.com/15-federal-minimum-wage-included-democratic-platform/

Sanders was more of a new deal democrat, not a neo-liberal. The adoption of his policies to the Dem platform was a significant leftward shift for the party. Sadly, few believed that Clinton, with her historical support of neo-liberal policies, would actually follow through

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:28

Unormal: Nov 16, 2004; Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!; Fun Shoe

Goa Tse-tung posted:

Please don't troll thanks

I'm probably correct, unfortunately.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120816121836.htm

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:28

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

You've stretched the meaning of the word "neoliberal" to be absolutely meaningless if a $15/hr minimum wage indexed to inflation is now a neoliberal policy.

I didn't say it was. Being a neoliberal party doesn't mean every single iota of policy viewed under a microscope can be filed under that category. It's about the synthesis of the policies they both espouse and the historical actions they've taken thus far.

I'm not stretching any meanings, I've been quite consistent in my definition of the word. What do you think neoliberal means?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:30

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Chomskyan posted:

Sanders was more of a new deal democrat. The adoption of his policies to the Dem platform was a significant leftward shift for the party. Sadly, few believed that Clinton, with her historical support of neo-liberal policies, would actually follow through

That's one thing, but we have people throwing neoliberal around to mean "anything not leftist enough for me." Which actually makes the real neoliberals look good.

Real neoliberals actually oppose the $15/he minimum wage and when people declare $15/hr neoliberal they're both associating a popular policy with neoliberals but also downplaying how horrible the real neoliberals are.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:30

TheBigAristotle: Feb 8, 2007; I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money.
I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.; Grimey Drawer

succ posted:

Still in campaign mode:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802723588759375873

FactsAreUseless posted:

No, he's not in campaign mode. His entire administration will be like this. It makes me very happy, honestly.

Will he stay @RealDonaldTrump or will he take over @POTUS?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:31

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

That's one thing, but we have people throwing neoliberal around to mean "anything not leftist enough for me."

It feels a lot more like anytime anyone uses the word neoliberal to describe anything you write them off as an idiot because you feel the word means nothing. Which is about as compelling as people who try to claim gender isn't socially constructed because "academic words don't matter"

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:33

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

I didn't say it was. Being a neoliberal party doesn't mean every single iota of policy viewed under a microscope can be filed under that category. It's about the synthesis of the policies they both espouse and the historical actions they've taken thus far.

Ah there we go, now the backtracking has begun.

SSNeoman posted:

I hope neo-liberalism will become the new democrat platform since you loving shitlords don't shut the gently caress up about it.

NewForumSoftware posted:

it already is fyi

has been for a good 40 years

NewForumSoftware posted:

miniscule increases to the minimum wage that don't even keep up with inflation don't really count as increasing it, but I can understand why the democrats ensure their voting base is kept as financially illiterate as possible

NewForumSoftware posted:

but yes, some of the things bernie sanders supports are neoliberal policies, does that really shock you when it's been the economic dogma for the past 50 years?

But no guys, you totally never ever meant to say $15/hr minimum wage was neoliberal.

NewForumSoftware posted:

It feels a lot more like anytime anyone uses the word neoliberal to describe anything you write them off as an idiot because you feel the word means nothing. Which is about as compelling as people who try to claim gender isn't socially constructed because "academic words don't matter"

Nah, I just dismiss people as idiots who call a policy "neoliberal" when in reality neoliberals oppose the policy. I'm getting the feeling you might not know what the word means.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:34

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

But no guys, you totally never ever meant to say $15/hr minimum wage was neoliberal.

The democratic party isn't the $15/hr minimum wage

quote:

Nah, I just dismiss people as idiots who call a policy "neoliberal" when in reality neoliberals oppose the policy. I'm getting the feeling you might not know what the word means.

What do you think the word neoliberal means?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:35

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Trabisnikof posted:

That's one thing, but we have people throwing neoliberal around to mean "anything not leftist enough for me." Which actually makes the real neoliberals look good.

Real neoliberals actually oppose the $15/he minimum wage and when people declare $15/hr neoliberal they're both associating a popular policy with neoliberals but also downplaying how horrible the real neoliberals are.

Maybe instead of nitpicking the specific language used by leftists and the "real" definitions of words you should try to understand and engage their arguments

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:36

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

The democratic party isn't the $15/hr minimum wage

What do you think the word neoliberal means?

You said the Democratic Party Platform was neoliberal then contended Sanders supported neoliberal policies and that Democratic policies for the minimum wage were neoliberal. That's the $15/hr minimum wage. You can move the goalposts now, but that's what you were arguing.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:37

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

It's two weeks after the election and neoliberals like Trabisniskof are already pushing for more HRC third way neoliberalism moving forward? I look forward to further electoral losses since apparently it's asking too much for Democrats not to double down on guaranteed losers.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:39

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

shrike82 posted:

It's two weeks after the election and neoliberals like Trabisniskof are already pushing for more HRC third way neoliberalism moving forward? I look forward to further electoral losses since apparently it's asking too much for Democrats not to double down on guaranteed losers.

Which neoliberal policies do I support again? Where did I support Third Wayism?

Edit: gently caress I forgot the $15/hr minimum wage was neoliberal. I do support that.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:39

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

You said the Democratic Party Platform was neoliberal then contended Sanders supported neoliberal policies and that Democratic policies for the minimum wage were neoliberal. That's the $15/hr minimum wage. You can move the goalposts now, but that's what you were arguing.

Alright let's unpack this pedantry a bit here piece by piece.

quote:

You said the Democratic Party Platform was neoliberal

And has been for 40 years

quote:

contended Sanders supported neoliberal policies

Uhh, obviously, he's an American politician who existed and was successful during the past 40 years

quote:

Democratic policies for the minimum wage were neolibera

Over the past 40 years they largely have been

quote:

That's the $15/hr minimum wage.

Two things here, the minimum wage has very little to do with neoliberalism (only in the sense that keeping it low "helps" businesses in the abstract, and even then that's debatable)
And secondly, the $15/hr minimum wage is not the democratic platform and one single part of the platform being mediocre doesn't make the party's platform as a whole progressive

Again, please define neoliberal for us since you seem awfully upset at people using the word incorrectly

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:40

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

Alright let's unpack this pedantry a bit here piece by piece.

And has been for 40 years

Uhh, obviously, he's an American politician who existed and was successful during the past 40 years

Over the past 40 years they largely have been

Two things here, the minimum wage has very little to do with neoliberalism (only in the sense that keeping it low "helps" businesses in the abstract, and even then that's debatable)
And secondly, the $15/hr minimum wage is not the democratic platform and one single part of the platform being mediocre doesn't make the party's platform as a whole progressive

Again, please define neoliberal for us since you seem awfully upset at people using the word incorrectly

You can't even make a consistent argument. You say the Democratic Party Platform has been neoliberal on minimum wage for 40 years, then turn around and say that the minimum wage has very little to do with neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism has traditionally meant an ideology following in the footsteps of classical economic liberalism. So small government, business for all, etc. However, it has also taken on more recently the elements of democratic liberalism and so people are increasingly using it to apply to interventionists, globalists, or even progressive activists if they're not also economically left enough. Most recently it appears to mean "anything not left enough."

Calling the Democratic policy on minimum wage since 1976 "neoliberal" falls at best in the second category and at worse squarely in the last.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:50

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

Let's see Trasbisniskof, continuing to poo poo on unions and blue collar workers by saying that their jobs are gone and they should get hosed.
Doubling down on unlimited free trade thru stuff like TPP. Arguing in favor of continued privatization of healthcare rather than UHC.

Even down to being petty over stuff like Ellison, a minority Muslim, being pushed as DNC chair and accusing him of being a Bernie Bro.

Yikes

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:51

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

Neoliberalism has traditionally meant an ideology following in the footsteps of classical economic liberalism. So small government, business for all, etc.

Really? That's the best you can do?

It's actually surprisingly difficult to critique something you don't understand.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:52

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

To be fair he's right about both of y'all conflating the gently caress out of what that word means.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:52

HorseRenoir: Dec 25, 2011; Pillbug

I wish they would bring back the "n-word" filter to make this argument slightly more readable

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:53

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

To be fair he's right about both of y'all conflating the gently caress out of what that word means.

Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at what it means? Where is it being used incorrectly?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:53

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

Trabisnikof posted:

You seem to be simply confused about the meaning of the word contrarian. It just means picking points opposite popular opinions with the purpose of gaining attention. So writing an article about how Creed is actually a good and under appreciated band is a near textbook definition.

But if you don't trust me, have a source:

http://www.niemanlab.org/2016/09/slate-now-20-years-old-reflects-on-the-value-of-taking-the-long-view-and-not-chasing-digital-media-trends/

It's as contrarian as Trump is presidential. Just because they aren't on the same fame level as Beyonce doesn't mean they deserve to be called under appreciated.

Also, I love how you're proof of how contrarian they are is them bragging about how they don't follow media trends to get onetime views and a clickbait article that's so blatant Buzzfeed would be embarrassed to publish it.

Only way to top it off is if what you posted prove just how out of touch the leaders at Slate really are.

quote:

The right audience is, we have 23 million uniques, 53 percent of them are 25-54, half of them make a household income of over $100,000, and close to half of them are at least college educated with a bachelors degree, decision makers in the business that they�re in.

So the "right audience" is the upper middle class. How nice.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:53

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

Really? That's the best you can do?

It's actually surprisingly difficult to critique something you don't understand.

NewForumSoftware posted:

Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at what it means? Where is it being used incorrectly?

Okay, why don't you enlighten us with your definition then?

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:54

Soy Division: Aug 12, 2004

I got news for you folks, the New Deal was neoliberal

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:55

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

Trabisnikof posted:

Okay, why don't you enlighten me with your definition then?

Well we can just start with what wikipedia has since you seem to be lacking as to any real basic understand.

Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism) refers primarily to the 20th century resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism. These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.

So I mean, the Democrats have pursued every single one of those policies at this point over the past 40 years. It's really less the Democrats and more America but whatever, I don't really understand why people get their underwear all twisted about the word.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:55

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:31

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

NewForumSoftware posted:

Well we can just start with what wikipedia has since you seem to be lacking as to any real basic understand.

Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism) refers primarily to the 20th century resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism. These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.

lol how exactly is that different from what I said?

Trabisnikof posted:

Neoliberalism has traditionally meant an ideology following in the footsteps of classical economic liberalism. So small government, business for all, etc.

Other than I didn't list examples.

# ? Nov 27, 2016 08:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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