|
I fully expect official FLC/DLC with an LL for the northern dwarfs at some point. Small and easy change that provides a completely different GC experience.
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 11:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
One really interesting thing is that orion and durthu are different factions, and you cant Confederate until you get the Oak to level 3. So you can't just conquer athel loren unless you're okay with missing out on the other legendary lord.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
I wonder if AI wood elves can complete victory conditions. It would be interesting if suddenly you have to crush the gently caress out of some elves because they got too big.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:One really interesting thing is that orion and durthu are different factions, and you cant Confederate until you get the Oak to level 3. So you can't just conquer athel loren unless you're okay with missing out on the other legendary lord. Have they said if amber works army by army or dependent on your LL? So if you pick Orion then confederate Durthu can Big D still recruit treekin and stuff without an amber cost, or is the cost tied to your original choice?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Corrode posted:Have they said if amber works army by army or dependent on your LL? So if you pick Orion then confederate Durthu can Big D still recruit treekin and stuff without an amber cost, or is the cost tied to your original choice? I'm pretty sure it's LL dependent.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
I predict i'll try to have a bunch of allies as the wood elves, so what is the rule for when allies attack each other again? I know that if i decline to join the attacker i get a relation hit, our treaties break and my reputation suffers. What happens if i join the attacker, and what happens if i join the defender? I hope that helping the defender won't get me a rep hit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
Double Bill posted:I fully expect official FLC/DLC with an LL for the northern dwarfs at some point. Small and easy change that provides a completely different GC experience. The problem with snow dwarves is that there's really nothing nearby unless you let them take and hold barbarian settlements.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Party In My Diapee posted:I predict i'll try to have a bunch of allies as the wood elves, so what is the rule for when allies attack each other again? I know that if i decline to join the attacker i get a relation hit, our treaties break and my reputation suffers. What happens if i join the attacker, and what happens if i join the defender? I hope that helping the defender won't get me a rep hit. My rule of thumb is to just not to go beyond non-aggression pacts if you don't plan on confederating them, which you're probably not going to do much of as Elves. You don't have to worry about violating treaties that you never made in the first place!
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
FutonForensic posted:My rule of thumb is to just not to go beyond non-aggression pacts if you don't plan on confederating them, which you're probably not going to do much of as Elves. You don't have to worry about violating treaties that you never made in the first place! The problem with Wood Elves is you need to be allies before you get their Amber. I think that means Military Allies, but I suppose Defensive Allies could work too
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 00:55
|
|
|
I'm just glad there's an option that doesn't involve murdering the whole of the Empire, Bretonnia, and the Dwarfs to win. Then again I think the Wood Elves wood be cool with that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
OK so if you play MP watch out for this annoying cheese. Mannfred and a Vampire on hellsteeds (the fast pegasi?) with Spirit Leech, a Mortis Engine and a Claw of Nagash, two Blood Knights, and a lot of zombies. This guy (he's ranked 40 or so in the ladder, his name is an eight digit number, 2272something) will murder your generals and all with Spirit Leech and kite you out with the engines to drain all of your life via passive corruption. About as much fun to fight against as an army of skirmishers except this is worse because skirmishers at least have a limit to the amount of missiles they have. The engines' corrupting reliquary doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 03:03
|
|
|
DeathSandwich posted:The problem with snow dwarves is that there's really nothing nearby unless you let them take and hold barbarian settlements. Yeah but I have to assume they'd let them take Norscan holdings, even if it's limited like Wood Elves options for building when they conquer. Olive Branch posted:OK so if you play MP watch out for this annoying cheese. Mannfred and a Vampire on hellsteeds (the fast pegasi?) with Spirit Leech, a Mortis Engine and a Claw of Nagash, two Blood Knights, and a lot of zombies. This guy (he's ranked 40 or so in the ladder, his name is an eight digit number, 2272something) will murder your generals and all with Spirit Leech and kite you out with the engines to drain all of your life via passive corruption. About as much fun to fight against as an army of skirmishers except this is worse because skirmishers at least have a limit to the amount of missiles they have. The engines' corrupting reliquary doesn't. They're really capturing the feel of the tabletop well!
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 03:06
|
|
|
Olive Branch posted:OK so if you play MP watch out for this annoying cheese. Mannfred and a Vampire on hellsteeds (the fast pegasi?) with Spirit Leech, a Mortis Engine and a Claw of Nagash, two Blood Knights, and a lot of zombies. This guy (he's ranked 40 or so in the ladder, his name is an eight digit number, 2272something) will murder your generals and all with Spirit Leech and kite you out with the engines to drain all of your life via passive corruption. About as much fun to fight against as an army of skirmishers except this is worse because skirmishers at least have a limit to the amount of missiles they have. The engines' corrupting reliquary doesn't. Hypothetically any airforce will crush this army comp. I know next to nothing about multiplayer but it really doesn't seem like Mannfred and 1 vampire can hold up against say multiple paladins and Louen. Fresh Shesh Besh fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Nov 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 05:02
|
|
|
Aurubin posted:I'm just glad there's an option that doesn't involve murdering the whole of the Empire, Bretonnia, and the Dwarfs to win. Then again I think the Wood Elves wood be cool with that. I'm fairly sure that whatever their victory condition implies, it's going to mean "not good things" for Empire, Bretonnia and the Dwarfs. Actually, i expect it'll mean "not good things" for anyone who doesn't spend their time living in those freaky woods.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 05:36
|
|
|
fnordcircle posted:Yeah but I have to assume they'd let them take Norscan holdings, even if it's limited like Wood Elves options for building when they conquer. Now that I think about it, isn't there a norse dwarf unit list from an old supplemental in tabletop? I though at one point I remember there being a unit list that gives up the dwarven high tech/black powder units in order to gain marauders and horsemen ancillaries. The more I think about it though, the more I think it sounds like the worse parts of both dwarf (nothing but t1-2 infantry and grudgethrowers because growth sucks) and chaos (horseman spam)
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
There's a mod adding them as a faction too. Kraka Drak is the city name I think.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 07:03
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I wonder if AI wood elves can complete victory conditions. It would be interesting if suddenly you have to crush the gently caress out of some elves because they got too big. the only reason they got too big is if you're having to go into the badlands for amber
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 08:48
|
|
|
fnordcircle posted:They're really capturing the feel of the tabletop well! I knew a guy who played basically that comp in 8th edition - I think it was lord, shitloads of zombies, two mortis engines, two terrorgheists or something like that. Unsurprisingly, people loving hated playing him. His other army was Skaven with shitloads of skavenslaves and a couple of hellpits.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 08:55
|
|
|
Mordja posted:Like I said earlier, I'm a fan of Turin. No gimmicks, no ego, he just puts out a match a day, sometimes two, and as far as I can tell he's a pretty good player. Seconding Turin as very enjoyable source of multiplayer replays on youtube. The rest vary from annoying to OK.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 10:47
|
|
|
side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 10:54
|
|
|
Fresh Shesh Besh posted:Hypothetically any airforce will crush this army comp. I know next to nothing about multiplayer but it really doesn't seem like Mannfred and 1 vampire can hold up against say multiple paladins and Louen. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 12:19
|
|
|
pnutz posted:side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc Generally speaking they are pretty limited. Good for chasing down routing enemies, rear charging/shooting (note that being shot at confers a significant leadership malus) if you can't field better cavalry yet, alright for tying up enemy archers or artillery in melee combat. I sometimes add one or two units to my early armies and they tend to do okay. With this DLC, I suspect they will be pretty important vs wood elves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
pnutz posted:side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc Pistoliers can shoot on the move so they skirmish better than Outriders. They're don't actually damage anything with armor though, so they're pretty niche to the point where it's rarely worth bringing them along. Outriders on the other hand are under utilized and almost better Handgunners in a lot of ways.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 13:50
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Generally speaking they are pretty limited. Good for chasing down routing enemies, rear charging/shooting (note that being shot at confers a significant leadership malus) if you can't field better cavalry yet, alright for tying up enemy archers or artillery in melee combat. I sometimes add one or two units to my early armies and they tend to do okay. Glade Riders should deep dick pistoleers unless you Glade Riders turn out to be trash. Any longbow equipped Wood Elf unit, really, but Glade Riders especially.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
Outriders can shoot while they move, but they can't shoot behind themselves while moving. So they can't continuously run away while firing like pisotliers or most mounted skirmishers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:14
|
|
|
I dont know posted:Outriders can shoot while they move, but they can't shoot behind themselves while moving. So they can't continuously run away while firing like pisotliers or most mounted skirmishers. I can't wait to for Glade Riders 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
Rygar201 posted:Glade Riders should deep dick pistoleers unless you Glade Riders turn out to be trash. Any longbow equipped Wood Elf unit, really, but Glade Riders especially. We saw Glade Rider stats in that last preview video, IIRC they have low HP but 140 range, same missile damage as crossbows, magic and poison attacks, and decent-ish melee stats for light cav. They will absolutely wreck Pistoliers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
i already think the TW AI is better than me at handling ranged units as is, I think wood elf AI armies are going to be pretty capable of wrecking me. im getting bad flashbacks of attempting to send cavalry in Rome 2 to disrupt AI ranged units, only to get them all mowed down by a horde of angry slingers, as my own archers fire an arrow every minute and/or walk into enemy units while trying to shoot at whatever i told them to. micro is hard. warhammer hasnt been as bad in that regard but i think that honeymoon is ending
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:52
|
|
|
madmac posted:Pistoliers can shoot on the move so they skirmish better than Outriders. They're don't actually damage anything with armor though, so they're pretty niche to the point where it's rarely worth bringing them along. I know about outriders, I used them a heap later on in my empire game. It seems the pistoliers could do with an extra 1-2 ap damage, to improve the damage they do while shooting people in the back (I played a round or 2 of skirmish after asking and my pistoliers made about their own number in kills so they're not completely useless). The niche needs to be opened up though, even spearmen are useful in later empire armies as
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 14:59
|
|
|
I find light cav so useful in TW games that I'm rather torn. Sure I'd like them to do more damage, but their main ability is always going to be harassment, chasing routed units so they stay dead, and clearing out retreating units so you don't have to fight them next turn. They're already so good at the last parts that they could make them do even less damage in combat and I'd still use the hell out of them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
Rygar201 posted:Glade Riders should deep dick pistoleers unless you Glade Riders turn out to be trash. Any longbow equipped Wood Elf unit, really, but Glade Riders especially. I don't mean glade riders and I don't mean a shooting duel. I mean that if you are being jumped by hordes of archers that can shoot you on the move and can probably outshoot crossbowmen, you *will* want an easily available and inexpensive source of fast units to engage them in melee and let you bring the rest of your force to bear. I imagine glade riders will be least T2. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Nov 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 15:23
|
|
|
My gut tells me that one of the most effective counters against wood elves would be an army composed entirely of tanks...
I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 16:40
|
|
|
Stephen9001 posted:My gut tells me that one of the most effective counters against wood elves would be an army composed entirely of tanks... Iraq 2: Athel Loren Boogaloo
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
pnutz posted:side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc They're the worst unit in the game. Don't use them
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
SickZip posted:They're the worst unit in the game. Don't use them I mean, the Black Coach still exists, technically.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
I used to kind of like pistoliers as a super early source of enfilade fire on an engaged front line, but then we got Free Company from the DLC and Free Company do that job about a million times more effectively and for cheaper, soo.... They really need to give pistoliers some AP damage to make them not total crap.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
Pistoleers are for kiting light cavalry and range.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:Pistoleers are for kiting light cavalry and range. A few volleys from 1-2 crossbowmen or similar ranged units will decimate pistoliers though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
Trujillo posted:A few volleys from 1-2 crossbowmen or similar ranged units will decimate pistoliers though. Yeah but if they're shooting pistoleers they're not shooting your line, and they're there to pull them out of position, not exchange fire. I'm not saying they're good at it, but if you want a mobile 360 shooter they're it (until welves come out.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
wiegieman posted:Yeah but if they're shooting pistoleers they're not shooting your line, and they're there to pull them out of position, not exchange fire. I'm not saying they're good at it, but if you want a mobile 360 shooter they're it (until welves come out.) Right, that's exactly it. The point is that to shoot at your pistoliers those crossbowmen/quarrelers/whatever have to turn their entire formation towards them, by which point you can easily escape their target cone once again. If you time things well enough you can neutralise the enemy's opportunity to shoot at your melee ranks as they arrive, or let your own missile troops pound their lines unmolested. Otherwise they are also great for chasing off enemy artillery. I mean yeah, other cavalry is way better but sometimes you need a fast unit, any fast unit, and pistoliers are cheap and can be gotten super early.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2016 18:40
|
|