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Wiz posted:... leaving the player free to take absolutely everything that isn't close to an AI country. The AI can and should take stuff I want, what I don't like is them taking stuff that they shouldn't want. In this game China took all of Anatolia while Greece took Istanbul and puppeted Japan. It's backwards. 
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Nov 27, 2016 20:34
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Maybe a system similar to Europa 4's "provinces of interest" where you can mark out what you want beforehand and the AI will respect that to some degree? Or territory costing more warpoints the further it is from your capital or borders?
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Nov 27, 2016 20:40
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uPen posted:The AI can and should take stuff I want, what I don't like is them taking stuff that they shouldn't want. In this game China took all of Anatolia while Greece took Istanbul and puppeted Japan. It's backwards. I get the complaint, but seriously, the AI refusing to take anything non-adjacent would mean that the player could hop into any war as Luxemburg, wait for all AIs to pass, and grab half the world without ever firing a shot. It's not an AI problem, it's a problem in how peace conferences are designed. The AI is using the system properly. EDIT: I'll admit that China really should have been taking Japanese stuff before Turkish stuff, though. It just irritates me a bit when players say the AI is broken because they want it to play stupidly for their benefit. Wiz fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 20:42
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Like who really cares atm since the only time I actually let a conference fire is when I want to see what weird poo poo the AI is going to do but if you guys ever plan on a postwar expansion it's going to cause weirdness.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:42
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Honestly the peace process should probably be done in at least two stages. First stage: proposal of the peace provisions that everyone can live with, like at Potsdam. The second stage would be the actual peace treaties with the hostile alliance, where if you try to take more than you're owed under the agreed terms it can trigger crises within your own alliance. Obviously it'd need to be balanced based on situational criteria, claims, etc.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:45
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It would be a lot of work for a feature nobody actually cares about.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:48
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All of this probably should be in the HoI thread but it just goes to show that an unqualified endorsement of HoI4 at this point is irresponsible. The game is decent and playable. By no means is it good and any recommendation I give would be a cautious one.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:49
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The point of the game is to win the war. Anything after that is just a funky victory screen.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:51
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game is good, actually
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Nov 27, 2016 20:52
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Yup I quite like it, looking forward to the expansions. e: Not as good as hoi3 but hey, nobody can be perfect.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:53
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IncredibleIgloo posted:The point of the game is to win the war. Anything after that is just a funky victory screen.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:58
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Wiz posted:EDIT: I'll admit that China really should have been taking Japanese stuff before Turkish stuff, though. It just irritates me a bit when players say the AI is broken because they want it to play stupidly for their benefit. I think this might be one of those cases where having it FEEL right is more important than the ai playing well. 
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Nov 27, 2016 21:03
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Fintilgin posted:I think this might be one of those cases where having it FEEL right is more important than the ai playing well. Yeah but not at the expense of the AI playing really stupidly which appears to be the suggested 'solution' here. Better to fix it by changing the mechanics to make China grabbing Turkey as stupid/implausible mechanics-wise as it looks to be.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Winning the war but losing the peace is for losers. The peace conference is the least of this game's issues
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Nov 27, 2016 21:07
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Wiz posted:Yeah but not at the expense of the AI playing really stupidly which appears to be the suggested 'solution' here. I mean, ideally not, but personally I think the AI playing really stupidly actually would be preferable here. At least for the big peace conference at the end of WW2, resulting pretty borders and a satisfactory conclusion is more important than a better peace result for an AI that won't actually be doing anything with its smart but ugly land anyway.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:13
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Koramei posted:I mean, ideally not, but personally I think the AI playing really stupidly actually would be preferable here. At least for the big peace conference at the end of WW2, resulting pretty borders and a satisfactory conclusion is more important than a better peace result for an AI that won't actually be doing anything with its smart but ugly land anyway. The issue is more with smaller peace conferences, since countries surrender to all attackers simultaneously you could basically declare war on any AI country that was about to lose a war and just take everything the others didn't want.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:16
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Hoi4 is fun but needs some mechanic overhauls to have the legs eu4 does(and I say that as someone who doesn't even really like eu). Mostly to the naval and air mechanics.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:08
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Wiz posted:The issue is more with smaller peace conferences, since countries surrender to all attackers simultaneously you could basically declare war on any AI country that was about to lose a war and just take everything the others didn't want. There should be a middle ground between "AI takes adjacent territories and stops" and "AI China takes Turkey before Japan". Couldn't you have AI countries take stuff close to them FIRST, and then set up distant colonies/puppets? That seems like it would resolve what people are complaining about.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:34
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The main problem with HOI 4 imho is that the air and naval game still hasn't progressed much beyond HOI2 and not at all from HOI 3. And I'd be inclined to argue that the air system is a large step backwards, at least in HOI 2 & 3 you could more or less get your planes to do what you want them to do, albeit at the cost of some micro. Now you not only have to micro your planes in stacks of 30, you then can't even control what they do. It really is pretty poor.
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Nov 28, 2016 00:47
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HOI 4 is the first good HOI
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Nov 28, 2016 01:31
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Obfuscation posted:HOI 4 is the first good HOI Darkest Hour was pretty good.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:39
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uPen posted:The AI can and should take stuff I want, what I don't like is them taking stuff that they shouldn't want. In this game China took all of Anatolia while Greece took Istanbul and puppeted Japan. It's backwards. HoI4 seems like a really lovely game and these kind of screenshots just seem to prove it IMO
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Nov 28, 2016 02:37
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Hoi4 is good. Fix naval and air warfare, and for some reason that air war interface and you'll be good. Vicky can't be salvaged however
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Nov 28, 2016 02:42
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:Hoi4 is good. Fix naval and air warfare, and for some reason that air war interface and you'll be good. You were so close to being right. Vicky and HOI4 are both good games, that have major issues.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:46
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Mans posted:HoI4 seems like a really lovely game and these kind of screenshots just seem to prove it IMO
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Nov 28, 2016 02:46
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Nat. China also loves Åland a lot. What's with that? Is it just looking for an island to retreat to after the communists win?
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Nov 28, 2016 02:49
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Åland kind of looks like Taiwan if you're very creative and need to visit an ophthalmologist.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:13
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Wiz posted:I get the complaint, but seriously, the AI refusing to take anything non-adjacent would mean that the player could hop into any war as Luxemburg, wait for all AIs to pass, and grab half the world without ever firing a shot. The problem here isn't the AI letting the player take half the world without firing a shot, it's the player being able to take half the world without ever firing a shot.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:19
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I don't want to be too negative because I really do like HOI4, HOI3 intrigued me but it seemed way too complicated for me to ever figure out. I've enjoyed what I've played but as I'm learning more and more about the mechanics it's revealed that it's nowhere near as polished as EU4 or CK2 is. The war conference system is capital B Bad along with the air zones and the AI, and I've stopped playing because of these things among other smaller problems. I burned myself on Civ 6 with this unfinished game bullshit but I have faith in paradox to fix HOI4, that stuff really should be a priority before you guys start pumping out more dlc.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:43
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The biggest problem HoI4 has, is the lack of achievements for Japan. Fix the air interface (why are wings of 10 wings of 30 planes better than 1 win of 300?) to be less micro and some other QoL stuff, the base game is good.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:44
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HoI4 is 70% good, 30% bad. Just needs a great leap forward.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:46
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Nat. China also loves Åland a lot. What's with that? Is it just looking for an island to retreat to after the communists win? They're doing it to spite Japan, obviously. quote:Merit is also attributed to Finland's Envoy to Japan, professor G.J. Ramstedt, who managed to point out to the Japanese delegation in the League of Nations that the Åland Islands are in fact a continuous archipelago that joins it with Finland, and furthermore, that deep sea waters separate them from Sweden. Japan's own interests in controlling Pacific islands would be aided by such a precedent, and it consequently gave important support to Finland.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:47
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Tahirovic posted:The biggest problem HoI4 has, is the lack of achievements for Japan. It is kinda weird that there aren't just "Win the war" achievements for the great powers. If you're motivated by achievements, there's no reason to play the USA or Japan.
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Nov 28, 2016 13:35
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:Hoi4 is good. Fix naval and air warfare, and for some reason that air war interface and you'll be good. Vicky is wonderful and beautiful unlike you who is the opposite!!
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Nov 28, 2016 13:53
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Kaza42 posted:There should be a middle ground between "AI takes adjacent territories and stops" and "AI China takes Turkey before Japan". Couldn't you have AI countries take stuff close to them FIRST, and then set up distant colonies/puppets? That seems like it would resolve what people are complaining about. Let's face facts, Turkey should be impossible to "puppet" by N. China or Japan. The likelihood of either country having the political capital to ensure that the rest of Europe doesn't say, "uh, no... we're the Occident and that's in our sphere of influence" seems rather remote. That's like Japan puppeting Central America on it's own, the Monroe doctrine be damned. Senor Dog posted:Vicky is wonderful and beautiful unlike you who is the opposite!! I too support this post. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 15:41
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Senor Dog posted:Vicky is wonderful and beautiful unlike you who is the opposite!! I am backing this post.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:44
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Senor Dog posted:Vicky is wonderful and beautiful unlike you who is the opposite!! AND MY AXE
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Nov 28, 2016 16:00
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Is it that there is a malus for China taking provinces outside Asia, but Anatolia is considered Asian?
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Nov 28, 2016 17:52
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Is it that there is a malus for China taking provinces outside Asia, but Anatolia is considered Asian? I've seen Greece take Hokkaido, I don't think there are any maluses for anything in the peace conference system.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:23
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uPen posted:e: Not as good as hoi3 but hey, nobody can be perfect. This is not a healthy thing to believe, please seek medical help ASAP.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:28
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