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Thanks for that - I took defensive first, then influence second (the AE, diplo-annex, and unjustified demands perks looked good) - so maybe I'll go religious third. Seems like it could work. Some extra money would be nice, but I guess there's no hurry on trade ideas or whatever. IncredibleIgloo posted:As Ottomans I like to sometimes have Georgia/Circassia as a March, as they start close but have increased core cost which is not fun.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:16
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awesmoe posted:Does the increased core cost factor in to vassal-integration cost? Yup! Gotta gently caress you over somehow!
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Nov 27, 2016 20:21
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I thought that the provincial bonus was not affected by the province's development? It isn't. The Dalaskogen copper mine is 5 units no matter what (the equivalent of 20 base production). However, copper is one of the most valuable trade goods from 1500 to 1635. And of course the total trade value benefits from goods produced, production efficiency, and trade efficiency bonuses. And wouldn't you know it, you get +10% GP as part of your national ideas. That being said, I don't think it's a good idea to invest heavily in Dalaskogen, or any province for that matter, since development is still woefully inefficient. It's a pretty good place to dump diplo points if you've got nothing else to spend them on., though.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:29
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awesmoe posted:Thanks for that - I took defensive first, then influence second (the AE, diplo-annex, and unjustified demands perks looked good) - so maybe I'll go religious third. Seems like it could work. Some extra money would be nice, but I guess there's no hurry on trade ideas or whatever. Keep in mind that you will unlock the advanced CBs at diplo tech 23, around 1700. The Imperialism CB has the same AE modifier, so if you are later in your game it *may* not be worth it to take Religious, as the CB is one of the better parts of the idea group. It would still be good for converting, though, which could be helpful if you are trying to paint the world Sunni. If you have no interest in a world conquest I find that Humanism combined with Ottoman ideas means you can take provinces and never have to deal with them, which can be nice. Administrative ideas can sometimes be useful as the Ottomans, usually as a second idea group, because the core cost reduction stacks really well with the first Ottoman idea. Also, the mercenary cost reduction is more helpful in the early game, as you will see your manpower just take off later in the game. You can get the 1 million manpower achievement as the Ottomans without being a super tryhard. I received that achievement while going for the Silk Road. My biggest advice is start dismantling Ming, or helping to dismantle it early. It is just such a slog to eat them later in the game. It can take like 5 wars or more if they are intact. And you eventually get *very* tired of siege-ing down 10 level 8 Chinese forts.
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Nov 27, 2016 20:47
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Religious is kinda bad other than the CB for Christians and Muslims - they can get bonus missionaries from owning holy sites and can stack missionary strength through decisions/piety/etc. cheaply over the course of the game. Muslims can even make use of non-Muslim provinces with the Dhimmi, and Ottomans have high heathen tolerance as part of their traditions. There are definitely better groups you could go for, like maybe Exploration so that you don't have to conquer all 1001 provinces you need through war.
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Nov 27, 2016 21:13
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Any advice on idea groups for Sweden? I took Admin first and want to take a military group now, but I haven't played in a while and forget what's considered good. I'm leaning towards Offensive but from what I recall Offensive/Defensive/Quantity/Quality are all pretty good and well-balanced - is that still the case?
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Nov 27, 2016 22:18
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Bold Robot posted:Any advice on idea groups for Sweden? I took Admin first and want to take a military group now, but I haven't played in a while and forget what's considered good. I'm leaning towards Offensive but from what I recall Offensive/Defensive/Quantity/Quality are all pretty good and well-balanced - is that still the case? I like defensive a lot for Sweden. I find that stacking multiple different combat bonuses (infantry ability, discipline, morale) is better than just stacking discipline to high heaven and the fort and attrition bonuses are huge in the area you'll be fighting in. Reduced maintenance isn't bad either combined with the reduced merc maintenance NI and admin ideas you already took. That said, Sweden is one of the best nations to take quantity with just because their troops are already amazing. Also, since they removed the combat width reduction from terrain, quantity is even better than it used to be. feller fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 22:53
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Senor Dog posted:I like defensive a lot for Sweden. I find that stacking multiple different combat bonuses (infantry ability, discipline, morale) is better than just stacking discipline to high heaven and the fort and attrition bonuses are huge in the area you'll be fighting in. Reduced maintenance isn't bad either combined with the reduced merc maintenance NI and admin ideas you already took. Thanks for the advice, ended up going for Quantity. Can't argue with more manpower.
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Nov 27, 2016 23:13
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I almost always go defensive for my first mil idea, just because of the insane value from just the first 2 unlocks. Much like Administrative you get a huge amount of the total worth of the idea set very quickly so you don't feel too bad about leaving ideas unpicked while you tech up or whatever. Quantity is probably a good first pick for Sweden specifically because they get such good quality-boosting NIs anyway. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 23:41
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I just almost ruined my "First Come, First Serve"/"For Odin!" achievement run. I'd picked American as my culture during creation and after conquering most of Britain I thought I'd form GBR. What the decision didn't tell me, though, was that it would change my capital to London, making colonial nations out of all my american provinces  Thankfully I was able to continue on the backup save.
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Nov 28, 2016 00:21
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I don't get the new naval combat. I (Aztec) went in with 56 heavies, 15 frigates, and 40 transports. Spain had 16/49/47. Same tech level (24), same width (27) and I had a slight morale advantage (5.0 vs 4.9). Neither side had an admiral. I got utterly rocked - Spain still had 60%+ on their morale bar when they won the battle. I didn't follow the dice too closely, but it didn't look like I got an outrageous string of bad rolls or anything.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:25
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I don't totally recall the changes, but iirc heavies now count for 3 width each. So with a width of 27, only 9 on each side could fight at a time, nullifying your numbers advantage. Then Spain gets 10% heavy ship combat ability too. I wouldn't expect you to get totally rolled but maybe some mediocre rolls too could have done it.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:30
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The Little Kielbasa posted:I don't get the new naval combat. I (Aztec) went in with 56 heavies, 15 frigates, and 40 transports. Spain had 16/49/47. Same tech level (24), same width (27) and I had a slight morale advantage (5.0 vs 4.9). Neither side had an admiral. did you pack oranges? your sailors may have been suffering from scurvy.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:00
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I'm doing a Big Blue Blob attempt and no-CB vassalised Theodoro with the intent of diplo-annexing them so I could expand into the cheap provinces in Crimea etc. When I went to annex them I couldn't because they're not in coring range. Is this new? I'm sure it worked on a previous attempt. Now I don't know whether to spend my diplo points on teching up for more range or on getting the -AE idea.
Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 02:28
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The Little Kielbasa posted:I don't get the new naval combat. I (Aztec) went in with 56 heavies, 15 frigates, and 40 transports. Spain had 16/49/47. Same tech level (24), same width (27) and I had a slight morale advantage (5.0 vs 4.9). Neither side had an admiral. eu combat tip (for both land and sea): having more units in a battle than are needed to fill the line is actually a disadvantage. additional units do lose morale as the battle progresses, but don't contribute. you probably would've won the fight if you'd dropped in, say, a dozen heavies every few days, since they'd have shown up at full morale vs spain's depleted ships. this is insane micro in most cases but is occasionally useful, mostly in mountains (before this patch, I guess?) or in Victoria II.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:50
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm doing a Big Blue Blob attempt and no-CB vassalised Theodoro with the intent of diplo-annexing them so I could expand into the cheap provinces in Crimea etc. When I went to annex them I couldn't because they're not in coring range. Is this new? I'm sure it worked on a previous attempt. Now I don't know whether to spend my diplo points on teching up for more range or on getting the -AE idea. It's been in for a bit. Definitely not new to last patch.
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Nov 28, 2016 02:54
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Tsyni posted:It's been in for a bit. Definitely not new to last patch. How on earth did I take territory over there then? It wasn't that long ago - the patch before Queen regencies were a thing. Is there some trick I'm forgetting? I don't know how else this achievement is possible.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:16
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They need to make it that if someone insults you, it removes the truce between your two countries. Otherwise why do I get a warning that a CB is expiring if the only way to take advantage of it is by breaking a truce?
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Nov 28, 2016 03:20
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maybe the insult made you mad enough to break a truce 😬
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Nov 28, 2016 03:30
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Wafflecopper posted:I'm doing a Big Blue Blob attempt and...I'm...getting [an] idea. You're already messing up. Try again, and this time remember that admin tech's for chumps.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:36
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I assume Fredmans epistles is responsible for the strange man shouting and making weird noises at me? 
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Nov 28, 2016 03:46
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Wafflecopper posted:How on earth did I take territory over there then? It wasn't that long ago - the patch before Queen regencies were a thing. Is there some trick I'm forgetting? I don't know how else this achievement is possible. Probably by the rule that on your home continent you can core provinces that border a vassal even if it's outside your coring range. Once you have a core in the area you should also be able to integrate the vassal.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:57
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AnoHito posted:You're already messing up. Try again, and this time remember that admin tech's for chumps. You're probably right, but it's the AE I'm trying to get my head around right now. I can't expend too much in Western/Central Europe or I get a massive coalition against me and even having Castile, Poland and Ottomans as allies isn't enough to dissuade the entire HRE plus assorted friends declaring. I could possibly beat them but it would take too long to matter. If I can't take territory in Crimea to give me a route into Russia, where do I go? Maybe I'll start again and see if I can take on Denmark/Norway/Sweden early and go through their low-dev stuff. e: Drakhoran posted:Probably by the rule that on your home continent you can core provinces that border a vassal even if it's outside your coring range. Once you have a core in the area you should also be able to integrate the vassal. Ah, right. I couldn't fabricate on Crimea so I assumed I wouldn't be able to core either.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:58
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Thanks for the assorted advice re: Idea Groups and Ethiopia. Sounds like not much has changed in terms of Idea Groups since last I played.Elotana posted:Ethiopia has a +10 prestige event within the first few weeks. Disinherit your lovely heir, then RM your Coptic vassal so you can get Eleni. Conquer Kaffa first (you have to bust through some minors in the new patch) to get a gold mine and then rival and throw the kitchen sink (mercs/loans if they ally Ajuraan or whoever) at Adal to make up prestige and get some coastline. You get mission CBs fairly often. I would ally either Yemen or Hejaz just to ensure you only have two fronts to defend for the first century of the game. Alright so question about this.  Son is 5/3/1 Strong, Daughter is 5/3/4 Average. Q1) How bad is Average instead of Strong for a claim? Would this mainly be an issue if I had potential for a succession war or does it effect other things? Q2) If I take the Son first and then accept the daughter's event, would that basically give me the stability point for free and replace the son with the daughter immediately?
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Nov 28, 2016 04:59
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Wafflecopper posted:Maybe I'll start again and see if I can take on Denmark/Norway/Sweden early and go through their low-dev stuff. Fwiw, this is how I got BBB. Take land on British Isles, eat Scotland, then hop over to Scandinavia and Russia. This was before the changes to Ireland though so be careful about keeping relations with the minors there topped off. And it was said earlier but it bears repeating - admin tech should not go past 3, those points are all for coring.
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Nov 28, 2016 05:01
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Thanks for the assorted advice re: Idea Groups and Ethiopia. Sounds like not much has changed in terms of Idea Groups since last I played. 1) You'll be in the 50 range, instead of 100 or so. I'd take the better heir every time. 2) Yep.
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Nov 28, 2016 05:09
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Yeah just tried it and it worked. Even got a sick Itege out of it Q) Should I spend some diplo points to build up the production on my gold mines if I'm still strapped for cash? Seems to give you a ton of extra income, not sure when that % for the mine to deplete starts getting serious though. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 05:12
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Yeah just tried it and it worked. Even got a sick Itege out of it Absolutely! The inflation can start to suck but running the -inflation advisor helps a ton. General consensus is to not exceed 9 points, due to old habits, but you're also really unlikely to suffer depletion at a level as low as that. And depletion isn't so bad, you lose half of those points and can always dump more diplo to build it up again if you need the income
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Nov 28, 2016 06:59
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Wow, conquering the spice islands is not very fun now. Thanks +20% coring cost spice. I am not totally opposed to slowing down the conquest...I just hate that drat plus coring modifier.
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Nov 28, 2016 07:40
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QuarkJets posted:Absolutely! The inflation can start to suck but running the -inflation advisor helps a ton. General consensus is to not exceed 9 points, due to old habits, but you're also really unlikely to suffer depletion at a level as low as that. And depletion isn't so bad, you lose half of those points and can always dump more diplo to build it up again if you need the income Alright, I'm still hurting for gold a bit so I'll probably start putting some points into my two mines then. Gotta start building some boats too  Most of the new features seem pretty cool so far, there haven't been enough forts around to do much with the ZoC rules yet. Still a little vague on when you shouldn't turn something into a State... or should you just always do so unless you're starting to bump into the State limit? Also when it comes to conquering a whole other nation, generally speaking should I be looking to vassalize them if they don't have some particularly essential piece of land I want immediately? Since I'm assuming Diplomacy points are still a fair bit less important than Admin, and you want to still have some vassals to feed and later diplo annex and all that yeah? Also to help keep OE and AE down a bit if I recall. Under the consideration of how many diplomatic relationships I already have of course.
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Nov 28, 2016 07:49
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Tendronai posted:Fwiw, this is how I got BBB. Take land on British Isles, eat Scotland, then hop over to Scandinavia and Russia. This was before the changes to Ireland though so be careful about keeping relations with the minors there topped off. Wait, what were the changes to Ireland?
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Nov 28, 2016 09:02
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Wafflecopper posted:Wait, what were the changes to Ireland? They added a bunch of extra provinces a few patches ago. It used to be only four or five provinces iirc.
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Nov 28, 2016 09:07
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Most of the new features seem pretty cool so far, there haven't been enough forts around to do much with the ZoC rules yet. Still a little vague on when you shouldn't turn something into a State... or should you just always do so unless you're starting to bump into the State limit? Prioritize making accepted cultures, or cultures you plan to accept, into states. And of course if you are getting close to the limit then make states of the biggest developed region. You can sort states/territories in the ledger to see what the optimal one is to turn into a state. You just want to optimize what you're getting out of the provinces. If you can afford to make everything a state then go to town, for sure, but I will prioritize tech -> ideas -> making states. When you vassalize someone you can turn all of their territory into states for free (unless they didn't core something for some reason, but they almost always will). There are some other outside situations, like centres of trade and so on that I usually want to be a part of a state. Vassal feeding can be a fine line, because you don't want your vassals to become too powerful. Once I am big enough I'll make some large marches out of non-accepted culture provinces and/or provinces that have a different religion than me. But, yeah, usually vassal feeding is a better use of monarch points in the long run. Eventually you'll get big enough discounts that you can say ef it, but if you're playing Ethopia or any non-european really, you need to keep things a bit more optimized.
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Nov 28, 2016 09:13
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What are the requirements for getting Printing Press to fire? In my Hesse game I feel like I've been among the last countries in western Europe to actually be able to embrace certain institutions (for example, colonialism spawned in Granada and by the time it spread to the Germany region, it literally went to every country surrounding me first before it finally came to me). I'd sorta like to have the leg-up on this one.
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Nov 28, 2016 09:44
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You should be able to get a tooltip for the requirements on the institutions screen, it's really unclear and hidden though: try mousing over where the spawn location would be if it had already fired. AFAIK Printing press will only fire in a reformed or protestant province, with bonus chance if it's in (northern?) Germany.
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Nov 28, 2016 09:56
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Drone posted:What are the requirements for getting Printing Press to fire? In my Hesse game I feel like I've been among the last countries in western Europe to actually be able to embrace certain institutions (for example, colonialism spawned in Granada and by the time it spread to the Germany region, it literally went to every country surrounding me first before it finally came to me). I'd sorta like to have the leg-up on this one. http://www.eu4wiki.com/Institutions
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Nov 28, 2016 09:57
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Thanks for the assorted advice re: Idea Groups and Ethiopia. Sounds like not much has changed in terms of Idea Groups since last I played. For future reference that 2nd event has a followup later on which (iirc, it's been a while) gives you -2 stability, so I usually turn it down.
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Nov 28, 2016 10:30
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I feel as if maxing out my rival slots by rivaling Spain, France, and Great Britain when any one of them has more than 200% my army strength may have been a bad idea. Now I'm having trouble intricating myself into their webs by finding a European powerful enough to be a thorn in one of their sides while also not being allied to at least one of the 3 that I rivaled so they're actually willing to hear me out in an alliance.
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Nov 28, 2016 14:36
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Yeah, rivaling people doesn't do much for you if you can't actually beat your rivals for Power Projection.
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Nov 28, 2016 14:43
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15 power projection is more than the 0 I had before. I've got no other valid rivals. I really should have thought ahead as regards alliances though.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:02
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