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I got through 160 Dark Dragon by leading a group with Tyro on Phantasm duty and Arc and his instant medica SSB. I just relentlessly kicked anyone who joined my party who had any physical attackers. Took some time to get it properly filled with mages, but once I did the fight itself was trivial since there was no way that dragon was gonna wake up. Then I went back to the 140 fight to try to snag the bonus greens drop. Same strategy to fill the group, but this time I got bored of kicking the last group member and waiting for a mage setup to jump in. I could feel that the other two guys just wanted to roll with just 6 heroes, so that's what we did, and still won without much difficulty. And I got the 6000 greens. 
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Nov 28, 2016 09:58
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I feel really lucky, all the groups I've had for hard multiplayer battles have been overall competent, aside from too many proshellgas. We completely embarrassed dark dragon U+, I brought OK with BSB using Phantasm to sleep the dragon and Maria with BSB for damage.
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Nov 28, 2016 10:40
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:aside from too many proshellgas i have, uh, not experienced this problem seen a whole lot of r5 1* Sleep though
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Nov 28, 2016 10:44
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Prav posted:i have, uh, not experienced this problem
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Nov 28, 2016 10:54
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I assume that if I have done all the raids solo I cannot also do them in MP for more rewards, correct?
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Nov 28, 2016 15:10
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Took down Mote Ahriman. It took a lot of S/L and I can't imagine farming it - Y'shtola was pretty overworked trying to deal with its AoE spam.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:16
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Geocities Homepage King posted:I assume that if I have done all the raids solo I cannot also do them in MP for more rewards, correct? I think you can get the random drops, but definitely not the first completion and mastery rewards.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:31
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Huh, I've been having a problem where if I switch characters on the multiplayer menu, the screen doesn't actually show any of the changes I made. Must be a surprise for people when Palom transforms into Eiko, but some people won't start a battle unless they see the healer (which is smart) so I'm not sure what to do there. These Multiplayer Ultimates sort of suck for me since I don't have any good healer or Mage BSBs, so I've been deciding between Tailwind Ramza for Sleeping, Eiko for Reraising, and Palom for Magic damage.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:04
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Finally got into MP now that there's substantial rewards. Went to Dark Dragon and I had a competent party so things went well! For the most part, nobody was hitting the dragon after I put it to sleep with Ramza's Phantasm. It got a bit rougher at the end as a Cloud could only use Lifesiphon/Drain Strike, so it kept waking up, but the healing was good and someone brought along a SG Tyro. However, I am slightly annoyed I couldn't do better. I wasn't aware your SBs reset to the default when you first start MP, so even though my Ramza knows Tailwind and Shout, I was unable to use them in battle due to that. It's frustrating because Tailwind would have helped a lot. Didn't master it due to attack not being lowered, but I'll jump in another raid later I guess.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:18
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Finally got the Ultimate going, and while it took me like 6 Phantasms to trigger a Sleep, the Tyro BSB user never lowered their Attack. So time to try that again.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:28
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Attestant posted:
I don't know what you're talking about so I probably missed it. I've only beaten one universe dungeon from start to finish, it was when I received Apocalypse. Usually, I fight my way to the Ultimate and give up, should change soon. I just lack relics.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:16
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The U+ was actually a fun experience for me, but time consuming. I ran into... IIRC two teams that just didn't have a shot(I mean I did the fight anyways, because I find it fun to see how far it'll get...), one that didn't have wall and didn't give me a chance to swap to Y'shtola( ), one win where we didn't master because we had like one Tyro doing all the support stuff alone, but seven massive cannons and a sleeper, so somehow we managed to keep the battle down until the dragon woke up from the massive ridiculous beatdown and splashed MT twice, at which point three people limped into the finish.Then the final fight was actually physical, we just knew not to wake the dragon all the goddamn time and had a Phantasm Edge and a good damage team, if sorta low on raw damage(I mean, it had two Onions, but both were set up as Support, bunch of healers, Edge as Phantasm spam, then a Maria Song Celes and my Basch dropping the beats.). Friend of mine just said screw it and soloed and this is actually incredibly viable for this fight looking at the stats, if you want to. It's a lot of coordination, and optimally good team building, which is not the place where MP is going to shine. SageAcrin fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 17:21
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Yeah I just soloed it, I like MP a lot but I don't see myself putting in the work to make sure I'm paired with three other well built parties. 
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Nov 28, 2016 17:27
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Did a 50 pull on the first ff3 banner hoping for arc's robe, got ingus' shield and onion knight's ssb instead. Nothing wrong with a hastega, and now I have an extra weapon so both ingus and luneth will be set with synergy. I'll probably have onion knight pack the spare desch's sword for ninja or black alongside support skills. Maybe I should have pulled on the second banner though, I really need a weapon for refia.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:36
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Munoma posted:I don't know what you're talking about so I probably missed it. I've only beaten one universe dungeon from start to finish, it was when I received Apocalypse. It was an event about a month or two back, where the Ultimates would reward record diving motes related to certain skill classes: Spellblade, Dragoon, Monk, Thief, Knight, Samurai, Ninja and Machinist. Basically you'd use these motes to both unlock the access to the 6* skills of the said school, and craft the first rank of the skill without crystals. If you missed them out, they'll eventually come back as rewards for some Difficulty 200/250 content, iirc. There are some nice 6* skills there, but nothing essential. (The secret is that all 6* are just a massive luxury, rather than necessity.) (edit) I have a quick question of my own. OK required 1 Onion Mote per unlocked class sphere, right? I got him Combat and Support 5*, which took four Onion Motes. So the two remaining physical spheres and six magic spheres would be 8 Onion Motes total, one for each 1st rank. Did I have this correct? Attestant fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 17:41
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Little bit of napkin theorycrafting: My current core lineup (significant changes from before): Onion Knight (Either 40% Medica or Melee SSB) (-50% DEF/RES [#608]) Vaan (BSB) (-40% DEF/MAG [#620], -50% DEF [#604] or -40% MAG [#601] as bursts) Faris (BSB) (Full Break -- -40% ATK/MAG/DEF/RES [#609]., -50% MAG [#601] or -40% ATK [#603] as bursts) With all 3 soul breaks rolling, i'm applying - 2x 50% DEF, 2x -40% DEF - 2x -40% ATK, - 2x -40% MAG, -50% MAG, - -50% RES, -40% RES. They're all under different IDs (I'm using Faris' #601 because it's better than Vaan's) so, by my understanding, should all stack? How does the math even work on this?!
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Nov 28, 2016 18:01
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EscortMission posted:Yeah I just soloed it, I like MP a lot but I don't see myself putting in the work to make sure I'm paired with three other well built parties. I'm having a lot of fun with MP, but yeah, sometimes you get paired with bad parties. I had one where nobody brought any sort of mitigation at all. The raid leader kept continuing, despite the fact that we were all going to fall to 5k damage Stonegas/Aerogas every time we tried, so I just had to close out and leave. Just mastered Dark Dragon, had some fantastic partners with me. I was worried when I brought Tyro and they brought Y'shtola that we might be overstocked on walls, but they had Aetherial Pulse and that went well with my SG.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:14
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Yes, those should all stack. As for how the math works out, first we have Break Resistance, which halves all stat break effects; every relevant boss has resistance to every break type. After taking that into consideration, breaks stack multiplicatively. So, as an example, a boss with 1000 Magic would be affected like this: 1000 * 0.75 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 480 Magic (52% overall reduction)
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Nov 28, 2016 18:15
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Successful multiplayer run of the U++ started with two people dying before anyone took a turn, but no one else fell after that. We stacked Cait Sith's ATK/MAG Break SB with my Porom MAG/RES SSB, actually focused on the correct opponent, and didn't wake up the Dragon until Pencil started spamming his BSB. Had to use my Meltdowns early so we wouldn't be dealing with two targets. Multiplayer almost wants me to make Meteor for my Palom since Ruinga isn't that impressive damage wise, but when you get a team that can work together, multiplayer is pretty fun. They eventually roll out the ability to save multiplayer setups, right? pichupal fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 18:40
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Zurai posted:Yes, those should all stack. As for how the math works out, first we have Break Resistance, which halves all stat break effects; every relevant boss has resistance to every break type. After taking that into consideration, breaks stack multiplicatively. So, as an example, a boss with 1000 Magic would be affected like this: Thanks! I'm starting to appreciate why break resist is a thing,
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Nov 28, 2016 18:43
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Zurai posted:Yes, those should all stack. As for how the math works out, first we have Break Resistance, which halves all stat break effects; every relevant boss has resistance to every break type. After taking that into consideration, breaks stack multiplicatively. So, as an example, a boss with 1000 Magic would be affected like this: 'course, since that's all pre-softcap, the actual damage loss is way more hilarious than that sounds.  I love break stacking.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:48
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So any use for Onion Motes after you unlock all the spheres for OK? Because the drop rate has shot up since I got enough, ha ha.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:50
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SageAcrin posted:'course, since that's all pre-softcap, the actual damage loss is way more hilarious than that sounds. Actually the magic soft cap for enemies is 742, so it's a little less of damage loss than you might think. It still reduces damage done by about 64%, though. McDragon posted:So any use for Onion Motes after you unlock all the spheres for OK? Because the drop rate has shot up since I got enough, ha ha. Nope. Not yet, at any rate.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:59
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In this case it won't matter, but apparently there do exist soft caps and hard caps on how much you can debuff an enemy in the same way that there exist soft and hard caps on how much you can buff an ally. This is not to say that the soft caps trail off nearly as drastically in the former case, but they do still exist. In particular, the offensive (ATK, MAG, MND) stat soft/hard caps are at -65% and -70%, while the defensive (DEF/RES) ones are at 70% and 80% (respectively). (An initial offensive penalty beyond -76% hard caps at -70%, while an initial defensive penalty beyond -87% hard caps at -80%.) But it's still very difficult to actually reach the soft caps in the first place given multiplicative stacking, the fact that an increasing capacity for debuffs is met eventually with debuff resistance (generally starting at the difficulty 99 dungeons in events, or at difficulty ~110 in elite story dungeons), and the outright generosity of those caps in the first place. In Wilekat's case the results would be, assuming debuff resistance:
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Nov 28, 2016 19:03
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538 ATK Luneth BSB if anyone else wants it for Ahriman - eeze I've had Sentinel Grimoire up for forever so I may put that back up afterward. McDragon posted:So any use for Onion Motes after you unlock all the spheres for OK? Because the drop rate has shot up since I got enough, ha ha.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:08
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NGDBSS posted:In this case it won't matter, but apparently there do exist soft caps and hard caps on how much you can debuff an enemy in the same way that there exist soft and hard caps on how much you can buff an ally. This is not to say that the soft caps trail off nearly as drastically in the former case, but they do still exist. In particular, the offensive (ATK, MAG, MND) stat soft/hard caps are at -65% and -70%, while the defensive (DEF/RES) ones are at 70% and 80% (respectively). (An initial offensive penalty beyond -76% hard caps at -70%, while an initial defensive penalty beyond -87% hard caps at -80%.) Thanks for this (and everyone else too!). I'm using this as an exercise to assess what I'm needing for my A-Team. I feel like coming out the gates with Faris and Vaan using Dr Mog's (when I get it...) and Mako Might probably sets me up best because I'm bringing the boss to 64% MAG effectiveness (36% MAG debuff between both BSBs) on turn 1, combined with either Protectga, Shellga or both. At that point it's just a question of what serves me best. Moving on, Trifecta: Medica - My only options right now are Aerith's Cura/Reraise or Lenna's Curaga/+50% RES. I'm leaning towards Lenna for the better heal and +RES trumping Reraise. Hastega - Paine SSB or Garnet SSB (Hastega + 50% RES). Paine gives me an AoE (Wind/Earth) and access to Knight and Spellblade 5, while Garnet gives me a second source of WHM 4 for ProShellga and backup healing or summon utility. Either works, I guess. Paine probably ekes out because of RES buff overlap and Knight being super good. I suppose the bottom line is what should I be looking out for on banners? Currently I'm budgeting two pulls for OSBFest and three for Minfilia 1, but where those pulls are going during OSBFest is a big question. I'm feeling like one on Banner 3 would be decent, but I'm not sure any of the others really strengthen my position any. I feel like I wait and see where my chips fall after Minfilia and if it goes really badly, I throw a pull on Tyro 2 to see if I can get SG/Shout, maybe.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:42
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Zurai posted:Actually the magic soft cap for enemies is 742, so it's a little less of damage loss than you might think. It still reduces damage done by about 64%, though. Oh, huh, didn't realize the enemy one was that much lower than player's. It's amusing how "softcap" for enemies roughly translates to "more break resistance on some enemies" though. Definitely noticed that with a few physical enemies, like Daedalus U++.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:02
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Zurai posted:Actually the magic soft cap for enemies is 742, so it's a little less of damage loss than you might think. It still reduces damage done by about 64%, though. *For those unfamiliar, the physical damage formula is that the base damage of PCs before command multipliers and whatnot is [ATK1.3] * ATK.5 / DEF.5, where the initial bracketed portion stops growing after a soft cap. The result is that after hitting the soft cap your base damage is 4000 * ATK.5 / DEF.5. Enemies apparently use a slightly different formula, where their base damage is [ATK1.3] * ATK.7 / DEF.84, which is why stacking RES buffs and ATK debuffs is comparitively meaningful for reducing enemy damage. **Similarly, the magical damage formula establishes the base damage of PCs before command multipliers at [MAG1.15] * MAG.5 / RES.5, where as before the bracketed portion stops growing after a soft cap. For enemies, it's instead [MAG1.15] * MAG.7 / RES.84. ***The defense-ignoring damage formulas are a bit weird. For physical attacks, base damage becomes [ATK].9. For magical attacks, base damage becomes [MAG].575 * [MAG].25, where (one more time) the bracketed portion stops growing after a soft cap. To compensate, these carry higher command multipliers than normal. (If you see a defense-ignoring attack on a boss AI sheet, beware; there seems to be a fair amount of variance in presentation or in exactly what formula the boss uses.)
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Nov 28, 2016 21:03
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First U+ multiplayer party went perfectly though I accidentally stacked my keeper's tome on top of another dudes when I could have used SG instead... (mist opportunity...) (sorry, so sorry)
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Nov 28, 2016 22:14
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Yeah, the attack/magic soft caps for enemies never got raised when they raised the caps for players, so they're a lot lower than people might expect. The attack cap in particular means that even with a healthy suite of stacking breakdowns it's sometimes difficult to reduce the hardest bosses below the soft cap. Some people advocate ignoring or at least de-prioritizing attack breaks for that reason, but I'm not one of them. Taking a physical boss from 1000 attack to 500 attack, even though it's all above the soft cap, still reduces its damage output by about 40%. That's pretty significant.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:19
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Man forget the Nightmare dungeons. I cleared the first three but reraise is just a dumb boss. I really would love to have Penelos BSB, it makes the mirror phase free as hell as a RW.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:35
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Munoma posted:Man forget the Nightmare dungeons. I cleared the first three but reraise is just a dumb boss. Yeah, I've read that dungeon was a bit overly hard. It's also worth noting that Reraise is pretty terrible: your guy comes back yeah, but they come back without any buffs, so on any significantly difficult fight they're gonna go right back down unless you immediately re-up defensive buffs. Edit: Hell, I saw such for myself on one of the 160 Dark Dragon fights I did, where my Garnet went down to a lucky hit and the rest of the party kept raising her only for her to give hit by a five or six thousand AOE hit before she could even get a turn in to try and drop Divine Guardian and get some buff in place. Happened like five or six times before I just started spamming No Worries Tonberry to get them to stop wasting turns doing it. LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 22:45
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Still worth doing for the white crystals for delicious Curada, though. 
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Nov 28, 2016 22:48
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LornMarkus posted:Yeah, I've read that dungeon was a bit overly hard. It's also worth noting that Reraise is pretty terrible: your guy comes back yeah, but they come back without any buffs, so on any significantly difficult fight they're gonna go right back down unless you immediately re-up defensive buffs. Yeah but Holy and Wind crystals are clutch. Panic! at Nabisco posted:Still worth doing for the white crystals for delicious Curada, though.  it's a worse wait than Meltdown.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:49
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CaptainPsyko posted:Yeah but Holy and Wind crystals are clutch. You don't have to tell me, I just made mine JP side and started looking for sources of Dark Crystals. But yeah, all the same that still puts it behind the Curada dungeon in priority.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:52
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Still worth doing for the white crystals for delicious Curada, though. This is why I wanted to beat it. I'm only interested in Curada, Northern Cross and Meltdown because apparently it's really strong.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:04
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I went back and cleared out a big chunk of my Nightmare and Mote Dungeon CM backlog today, clearing out CM Ifrit with the self-imposed limit that I use nothing that was released past its initial release save for Fire resist accessories, CM Dahaka, Reraise, Neo Bahamut, mastery for Meltdown and Affliction Break. Of these six, Reraise can suck my rear end the most. I hate to say and generally don't believe that you need specific SBs for specific chunks of content but of all the fights, that one was by far the worst not to have Wall on and I pretty much had to cheese it with Seal of Heaven. A Swooping Scythe opener before Protectga goes up and unlucky Photon Spray bounces dropped Aerith before Phase 1 was even over. I'm just not entirely sure what they assumed the power baseline was when it was first released. What were you assumed to have? I'm a little light on good White Mage Medicas, I only have Dreamstage and Miracle Prayer but I can't imagine they expected people to have much past that when it first came out either.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:06
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What IS a good way to beat the Curada boss, anyway? It's stupidly high RES, counters melees and just go nuts. I've heard things about using ninja abilities and summons, but nothing too useful.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:19
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that rematch banner sucks. might be the first half price lucky draw banner I won't never not pull on
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Nov 28, 2016 23:20
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Cosmic Afro posted:What IS a good way to beat the Curada boss, anyway? It's stupidly high RES, counters melees and just go nuts. I've heard things about using ninja abilities and summons, but nothing too useful. Basically just ignore the mechanics and brute force the thing.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:20
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