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the white hand posted:Somebody did but they shot him in 1968 What's the over-under on someone thinking you're talking about Andy Warhol and not the person you're actually referring to here?
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Nov 28, 2016 14:05
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biracial bear for uncut posted:What's the over-under on someone thinking you're talking about Andy Warhol and not the person you're actually referring to here? Well, I wasn't even aware Warhol got shot...
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Nov 28, 2016 14:50
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Samovar posted:Well, I wasn't even aware Warhol got shot... Campbell's is real protective of their image.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:59
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Exploring new dimensions in white fragility CVS Employees Hide and Call Police After Black Man Tries to Buy Cheese http://jezebel.com/cvs-employees-hide-and-call-police-after-black-man-trie-1789411574
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Nov 28, 2016 16:04
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Exploring new dimensions in white fragility Police, fully aware of white people being overreacting dipshits, will still side with them.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:26
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Exploring new dimensions in white fragility I've been guilty of cheesin' while black but not like this...
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Nov 28, 2016 16:32
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Samovar posted:Well, I wasn't even aware Warhol got shot... It comes up in Google results prior to the assassination that matters when you search "Shot in 1968". You have Robert Kennedy first, then Andy Warhol, then only the very last result on the first page being MLK Jr. (maybe even being pushed to the first result on the second page depending on how many results load when you run the search).
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Nov 28, 2016 16:34
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Police, fully aware of white people being overreacting dipshits, will still side with them. I mean. At some point the only way to resolve that situation is to remove them from the store. Regardless of how loving bullshit it is. If the manager and employees of a store tell you to leave and say you are trespassing then you are kinda trespassing.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:36
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biracial bear for uncut posted:It comes up in Google results prior to the assassination that matters when you search "Shot in 1968". That depends on your search history I think, it's the second result for me.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:42
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N. Senada posted:It's also why white people can't be trusted to be advocates or allies because they'll sell out the cause in order to feel like the adult in the room. Many of the first wave feminists reacted in the way you are reacting when the abolitionists decided to wait on women's sufferage. Elizabeth Cady Stanton is probably the best example.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:48
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BrandorKP posted:Many of the first wave feminists reacted in the way you are reacting when the abolitionists decided to wait on women's sufferage. Elizabeth Cady Stanton is probably the best example. And then they turned around and did the same thing to black women fighting Jim Crow. Being an ally means being in a constant state of paying your dues. That's not something that comes naturally to people with privilege, who get authority and importance as a birthright but tell themselves it's the result of merit. In actual news, Dylan Roof was found competent to stand trial and will be representing himself. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dylann-roof-competent-stand-trial There was some talk that this case might put an end to the death penalty. I have no idea if that's at all true, but makes me wonder if and what the black community's opinion on the death penalty is considering how significant judicial issues are.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:56
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Why would that case bring an end to the death penalty? Is there anyone that actually feels sympathetic towards that piece of poo poo? If so, uh, the problems with racism in the States are continuing to blow my mind. There's always more and it's always worse. I'm against the death penalty on principle and would like to see it abolished, but if it absolutely must exist, this is exactly the sort of person who most deserves to have it applied.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:06
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Dexo posted:I mean. At some point the only way to resolve that situation is to remove them from the store. Yeah, for once I don't think you can really hold this against the cop unless you want the police taking even more liberties with how they enforce the law.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:39
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Police, fully aware of white people being overreacting dipshits, will still side with them. The business asked the men to leave, so the cop has to turn them away. It's probably not the call he wants to make, but he's just following the rules he's got. It's still total bullshit, but I don't think we should be going after the cop in this scenario. Now, the CVS employees are completely fair game.
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Nov 28, 2016 19:56
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I oppose the death penalty in all instances and cases like Dylann Roof are how I confirm to myself that my opposition is sincere. No state killings, not even for him.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:15
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there wolf posted:And then they turned around and did the same thing to black women fighting Jim Crow. My mother is 100% opposed to the death penalty. I used to be for it in extreme cases, but all of the people put to death and then posthumously exonerated made me absolutely want it abolished. There was a case in GA not too long ago where people recanted their testimonies and there was enough evidence to cast reasonable doubt about the sentence that was handed down, but the dude was put to death anyway. Even for Dylan Roof I don't want the death penalty. That's an easy way out. I want his life in prison to be loving miserable.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:36
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Morby posted:My mother is 100% opposed to the death penalty. I used to be for it in extreme cases, but all of the people put to death and then posthumously exonerated made me absolutely want it abolished. There was a case in GA not too long ago where people recanted their testimonies and there was enough evidence to cast reasonable doubt about the sentence that was handed down, but the dude was put to death anyway. Troy Davis or Brian Keith Terrell? Says something that there's more than one case in this state that that could apply to.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:27
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there wolf posted:Troy Davis or Brian Keith Terrell? Says something that there's more than one case in this state that that could apply to. Davis, but I also get your point about this happening multiple times.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:38
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Morby posted:Even for Dylan Roof I don't want the death penalty. That's an easy way out. I want his life in prison to be loving miserable. "Justice" based on vengeance is still bad, even when it's against mass murderers.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:28
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1stGear posted:"Justice" based on vengeance is still bad, even when it's against mass murderers. Reminds me of an old book I have from one of the early American Prison oversight groups (forget the name, but they don't exist any more under the name the book has on it) from some big conference some time during the early 1950s where the chairman of the group had this big speech talking about the dangerous shift in thinking regarding prisons where instead of being places where actual debt to society and rehabilitation occurs, prisons are instead becoming places of punishment. It was right up there with that Electric Company comic Judgement Day in terms of being shocked at the apparent cultural dissonance between what was in the book and the way people think of the prison system. The fact that the group no longer exists/was subsumed by the big industry that Prison is now probably just confirms all of the fears that were in that book though.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:37
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Veyrall posted:I know policemen who get to deal with silly bullshit they don't support all the time. Yeah, I guess it's not them. It's just offputting to see legal enforcement for cartoonish racism.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:40
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I'm quite fond of how Brevik got reduced to a whinging little baby because he wasn't getting the video games he wanted. Comfortable, locked away and reduced to being utterly ridiculous is a good outcome in my book and works with a system that won't gently caress people who can be redeemed or aren't even bad in the first place.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:41
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I'm anti-Death Penalty. So I'm not wishing death upon Dylan Roof or anything. I'm just gonna be a bit
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Nov 28, 2016 23:07
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I oppose the death penalty in all instances and cases like Dylann Roof are how I confirm to myself that my opposition is sincere. No state killings, not even for him. I feel the same, but I probably wouldn't shed a tear if he ends up in general population with a bunch of angry black men.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:09
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That's an extremely racist stereotype.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:19
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Rereading it I understand what you mean better and I don't think you were making an extremely in poor taste rape joke,, but prisons aren't meant for retribution and forgetting that and expressing these sentiments now are what allows racist idiots to feel justified over the state of our abysmal prison system.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:21
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Also normalizing prison violence isn't a good thing either. People in prison should not be victims of official or unofficial abuse.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:22
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Dexo posted:I mean. At some point the only way to resolve that situation is to remove them from the store. Yeah they unfortunately had no legal standing to be there even if they were in the right. What's actually horseshit is that those employees are being retrained instead of fired because holy poo poo really? Like even from a purely selfish rear end in a top hat standpoint I wouldn't want employees that will shut the store down and turn away customers because they think black people are spooky. 
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Nov 28, 2016 23:24
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1stGear posted:"Justice" based on vengeance is still bad Buschmaki posted:prisons aren't meant for retribution A year or two ago I went down a rabbit hole reading about theories of criminal justice, and, well, retributive theories of criminal justice are not only a thing, but widely subscribed-to in the US legal system. So some of us may agree with reformative and/or deterrent theories (I subscribe to this view, more or less), but quite a number of US justices honestly believe that the purpose of prison is punishment and revenge. I guess this is kind of a derail, except in terms of the racial bias in the application of the law.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:15
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I don't think that's good because the racial bias in the application of the law leads to innocent people going to prison, which is way worse in a retributive style of justice.
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Nov 29, 2016 03:44
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And of course racial bias helps otherize the prisoners so that a retributive style of "justice" is preferred...
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Nov 29, 2016 04:11
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xthetenth posted:And of course racial bias helps otherize the prisoners so that a retributive style of "justice" is preferred... Yeah, quite interesting that as the prison population got darker, so did life inside prison. Education was taken away, rehabilitation, etc. it's almost like modern day prisons are designed to circumvent the 13th amendment.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:09
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negromancer posted:Yeah, quite interesting that as the prison population got darker, so did life inside prison. Education was taken away, rehabilitation, etc. it's almost like modern day prisons are designed to circumvent the 13th amendment. poo poo, the 13th amendment was designed to circumvent slavery to begin with.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:12
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negromancer posted:Yeah, quite interesting that as the prison population got darker, so did life inside prison. Education was taken away, rehabilitation, etc. it's almost like modern day prisons are designed to circumvent the 13th amendment. Much like Mexican immigrants, prisoners make the perfect new slave class/scapegoat for aspiring conservatives wanting to look "tough on crime" while still reaping all the benefits for hard labor. It's the real reason trying to reform those systems is so difficult: the majority insists on having someone to act as the dedicated bottom rung of society so they can take sadistic pleasure in having a higher status than someone else.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:32
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Dexo posted:And how people are so sympathetic towards that piece of poo poo. Are people actually sympathetic to him? I haven't been paying as much recent attention but I thought it was another situation where they try and separate him from the group as much as possible with the "Lone Wolf acting Alone" defense.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:35
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bobjr posted:Are people actually sympathetic to him? I haven't been paying as much recent attention but I thought it was another situation where they try and separate him from the group as much as possible with the "Lone Wolf acting Alone" defense. Compare the rhetoric around the two. Even people like Trayvon Martin have a far more violent strait of rhetoric directed towards them than this shithead. No ones calling him a saint, but the visceral aggression directed towards minority offenders, real or imagined, is conspicuously absent.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:00
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bobjr posted:Are people actually sympathetic to him? I haven't been paying as much recent attention but I thought it was another situation where they try and separate him from the group as much as possible with the "Lone Wolf acting Alone" defense. This motherfucker has had less negative poo poo written about him than unarmed dudes who got shot by cops. He's just a "sad broken lone wolf, misled kid in need of counseling"
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Nov 29, 2016 07:05
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Schizotek posted:Compare the rhetoric around the two. Even people like Trayvon Martin have a far more violent strait of rhetoric directed towards them than this shithead. No ones calling him a saint, but the visceral aggression directed towards minority offenders, real or imagined, is conspicuously absent. Yup. It's usually just some bog-standard "come together" jabbering as if the media is just shocked that hate crimes could possibly be made by poor, troubled white men. Meanwhile, the latest black man gunned down for no reason is treated as if they're hoping to have a reason to declare him an evil thug and unleash the hatred.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:06
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1stGear posted:"Justice" based on vengeance is still bad, even when it's against mass murderers. Just to clarify I don't want him killed or beaten up o raped or abused by guards, but I do want him to absolutely have to wake up every day reminded of what he did, have his movements restricted because of it, and to not really be able to enjoy himself at all. The folks he killed sure won't.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:40
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bobjr posted:I thought it was another situation where they try and separate him from the group as much as possible with the "Lone Wolf acting Alone" defense. Oh it went further than that, with the right tripping over its babydick trying to cast the shooting as a war on Christianity.
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Nov 29, 2016 08:05
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