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Nov 28, 2016 15:22
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What a nice picture of her
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Nov 28, 2016 15:25
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To what, scare the children and grind their bones to make her bread?
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Nov 28, 2016 15:29
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BexGu posted:To what, scare the children and grind their bones to make her bread? haha yeah that woman sure is ugly!
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Nov 28, 2016 15:30
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"I should mock people for being so dumb about fake problems like "economic cloudiness" or "economic anxiety" that only ever marginally affect privileged people" I say as I step over a passed out homeless man on an unlit street in Detroit.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:31
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woudl not invading iraq have ended racism? no? then i guess it was simply the right thing to do.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:34
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steinrokkan posted:"I should mock people for being so dumb about fake problems like "economic cloudiness" or "economic anxiety" that only ever marginally affect privileged people" I say as I step over a passed out homeless man on an unlit street in Detroit. My concern is that people are so quick to dismiss racial concerns of minorities because in this election the white working poor didn't show up, but what if you swing too far the other way, tell black people they're getting lynched by police because minimum wage is too low, and then THEY don't show up in 2020?
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Nov 28, 2016 15:35
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zegermans posted:haha yeah that woman sure is ugly! she's evil too, and a loser
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Nov 28, 2016 15:36
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Economic class is indistinguishable from the complex interrelation of social classes which create it in the first place. I'm sure you don't care about that and just want to score points against white phantoms for maligning the blue team, though.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:36
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zegermans posted:tell black people they're getting lynched by police because minimum wage is too low i agreed with karl marx so hard when he said this that its tattooed on my body memento style, all socialists love to say and type these words and beleive them fully
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Nov 28, 2016 15:42
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blamegame posted:I saw this on twitter, does anyone have a source? it seems unfortunately believable Gotta stand up for bankers rights.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:42
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zegermans posted:My concern is that people are so quick to dismiss racial concerns of minorities because in this election the white working poor didn't show up, but what if you swing too far the other way, tell black people they're getting lynched by police because minimum wage is too low, and then THEY don't show up in 2020? Yes, this sure is a thing you sound concerned about, it doesn't sound at all like you want to just write off the rural poor as a bunch of racist hicks to be mocked and dismissed like basically every coastal democrat does
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Nov 28, 2016 15:44
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edit: Aww, gently caress it. Divide & Conquer always works.
Accretionist has issued a correction as of 15:51 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 15:46
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zegermans posted:My concern is that people are so quick to dismiss racial concerns of minorities because in this election the white working poor didn't show up, but what if you swing too far the other way, tell black people they're getting lynched by police because minimum wage is too low, and then THEY don't show up in 2020? Hmm. Yes. It is impossible to present an economic vision and one of racial justice at the same time, rather than pitting them against each other to protect the banks. Because of course FDR + Wallace never happened, and Hillary won.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:48
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The Soviet Union used to troll America by pointing out their cries of freedom rang hollow with their treatment of African-American citizens. Do other modern countries have problems with their socialist/progressive political factions being painted as not concerned with minority issues, or is it an American phenomena?
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Nov 28, 2016 15:54
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Yeah but on the other hand gun control
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Nov 28, 2016 15:53
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loquacius posted:Yes, this sure is a thing you sound concerned about, it doesn't sound at all like you want to just write off the rural poor as a bunch of racist hicks to be mocked and dismissed like basically every coastal democrat does I mean, I live in St. Louis - I guess the Mississippi might count as a coast? I've seen firsthand the type of people that voted Trump, I work with them. Some of them are irredeemable racists, but they were never not voting Trump. There are also people here that work 50-60 hours a week, are barely able to keep their spouse and children insured and fed, while the boss of the 70-person company takes home 2-3 million a year. On the other hand, we also don't hire black people period as a matter of unofficial policy because they "just want to sue people". How do you reach out to both people without alienating either?
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Nov 28, 2016 15:57
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zegermans posted:I mean, I live in St. Louis - I guess the Mississippi might count as a coast? I've seen firsthand the type of people that voted Trump, I work with them. Some of them are irredeemable racists, but they were never not voting Trump. There are also people here that work 50-60 hours a week, are barely able to keep their spouse and children insured and fed, while the boss of the 70-person company takes home 2-3 million a year. Is the "we" a monolithic hivemind entity or just a couple lovely managers
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Nov 28, 2016 15:59
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I'm just saying, if your thesis is "both of these points are vitally important" maybe don't spend your time talking loudly about how one of them is dumb and if you want it to be addressed you are racistcomingafteryouall posted:The Soviet Union used to troll America by pointing out their cries of freedom rang hollow with their treatment of African-American citizens. Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the UK's Labour Party, aka "the British Bernie Sanders", went through an extremely similar thing when he was running for party leadership where narratives about how women didn't like him and he had no minority support were pushed really hard, and basically every other Labour politician hated his guts; the difference is that the people like him enough that he won leadership anyway.
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Nov 28, 2016 15:59
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Is the "we" a monolithic hivemind entity or just a couple lovely managers Mostly everyone. Maybe my perspective is a bit warped because the people I deal with daily kinda do fit largely into the "racist hicks" stereotype.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:00
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gonna have to up your troll game now that the gad drat president elect is a masterclass troll an entire generation of american children are gonna be some of the finest trolls in the entire world
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Nov 28, 2016 16:02
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zegermans posted:I mean, I live in St. Louis - I guess the Mississippi might count as a coast? I've seen firsthand the type of people that voted Trump, I work with them. Some of them are irredeemable racists, but they were never not voting Trump. There are also people here that work 50-60 hours a week, are barely able to keep their spouse and children insured and fed, while the boss of the 70-person company takes home 2-3 million a year. I don't know the people in question, but I have a suspicion that if you explicitly promise to help someone and make them believe you mean it more than the other guy does, they won't spite-vote against you just because you have also explicitly promised to help people they don't like 
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Nov 28, 2016 16:03
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zegermans posted:How do you reach out to both people without alienating either? This is the question you should be trying to help us answer instead of spending all your time attacking things people aren't saying and refusing to understand what they have. Speaking of which, I think this thread has made it abundantly clear one of the biggest weaknesses of leftism: How does it deal with the insincere? How do you deal with those who profess to want to help, but really only want to prevent you from making progress while turning your efforts to their own benefit? How do you stop the political equivalent of "regulatory capture"? Whether we're talking about the corporatists the Democrats have become or the various failed communist movements in other countries that just became rhetorical shields for tyrannical oligarchy, or all the leftists movements in the US that fell so quickly and easily to infiltration and disruption... Why does the left have such an incredible problem with resilience? Why does this problem not seem to be shared, to the same extent, by the right? GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 16:07 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 16:03
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zegermans posted:I mean, I live in St. Louis - I guess the Mississippi might count as a coast? I've seen firsthand the type of people that voted Trump, I work with them. Some of them are irredeemable racists, but they were never not voting Trump. There are also people here that work 50-60 hours a week, are barely able to keep their spouse and children insured and fed, while the boss of the 70-person company takes home 2-3 million a year. Hillary lost the racistmen that elected noted WASP Barack Obama.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:04
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loquacius posted:I don't know the people in question, but I have a suspicion that if you explicitly promise to help someone and make them believe you mean it more than the other guy does, they won't spite-vote against you just because you have also explicitly promised to help people they don't like At the very least, there probably isn't enough of such people to be a voting bloc
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Nov 28, 2016 16:06
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Yudo posted:Hillary lost the racistmen that elected noted WASP Barack Obama. Before someone makes the obvious concern trolling followup: No, he is not saying that racism is over, or that these people are not racist, only that their racism is no in way a barrier to Democratic victory or getting them to support politicians who are opposed to racism. They might be racist, but it is not a primary, overwhelming identity issue for them, and it does not decide their vote.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:09
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loquacius posted:I don't know the people in question, but I have a suspicion that if you explicitly promise to help someone and make them believe you mean it more than the other guy does, they won't spite-vote against you just because you have also explicitly promised to help people they don't like there are a lot more people who will do this than you might think. of course those aren't the people who lost hillary the election, but it's still worth remembering that a lot of people are spiteful, hateful jackasses.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:10
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Baloogan posted:gonna have to up your troll game now that the gad drat president elect is a masterclass troll cant wait to be tricked by an 8 year old to kill myself in 2024
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Nov 28, 2016 16:11
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Cubey posted:there are a lot more people who will do this than you might think. People who spite vote, yes. People who spite vote against those they feel sincerely have their own best interests at heart, less so. Most of those driven by spite don't actually believe that.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:13
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blamegame posted:I saw this on twitter, does anyone have a source? it seems unfortunately believable Freddie has a good post up about this (broader argument) today.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:18
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How will single payer stop microagressions?! HUH BERNIEBROS?! As an oppressed minority, I loving hate racial pandering democrats that trot out social justice to support their lovely politics. IDGAF about social justice because white people constantly show they are incapable of creating a better society. Just make sure I have a job/benefits/some crude imitation of rights and I will call it even.
temple has issued a correction as of 16:24 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 16:19
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There are lots of economically hosed people of all colors and creeds that didn't vote on election day. That includes in bumble gently caress MI and North Milwaukee. We are only talking 100k or so votes here: if only we did more than promise more of the same!
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Nov 28, 2016 16:22
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GlyphGryph posted:Before someone makes the obvious concern trolling followup: No, he is not saying that racism is over, or that these people are not racist, only that their racism is no in way a barrier to Democratic victory or getting them to support politicians who are opposed to racism. They might be racist, but it is not a primary, overwhelming identity issue for them, and it does not decide their vote. I agree with the sentiment here, but it is also important to remember the past 8 years have had events occur that could have made their inner-racist a little stronger. BLM and riots in St. Louis and Baltimore brought racial justice activism back into the forefront of a lot of news coverage. The news coverage was really lovely and made the protests look like very serious race riots when they weren't nearly as destructive as the riots of the 1950s and 60s or the LA riots in '92. In '08, the last big race story I remember was Hurricane Katrina. Zimmerman hadn't been acquitted and BLM hadn't taken off by '12. Maybe there are some that I'm missing. So we might be talking about people who have no problem voting for a black guy when racial justice activists aren't prominent in the news, but are driven away when these issues are getting attention. We can't create strategy based on the assumption that people will become more enlightened over time, or even on the assumption that people remain static. With the normalization of Trump, we could be facing a situation where people like what Trump does to minorities and he wins their continued support, even if they voted for Obama. So I agree that there are voters out there like you described, but we also have to admit that not all of them are going to be won back.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:30
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comingafteryouall posted:We can't create strategy based on the assumption that people will become more enlightened over time, or even on the assumption that people remain static. With the normalization of Trump, we could be facing a situation where people like what Trump does to minorities and he wins their continued support, even if they voted for Obama. I think we also have to worry about the fact that if these voters begin to feel abandoned by the party and turn to Republicans or even just tune out, they will probably begin embracing the rhetoric and beliefs of their new "team" to a greater extent. Similarly, winning them over might not change their underlying feelings but would probably make them more likely to publicly be less racist. And we didn't even lose to Trump voters! We lost to people unenthusiastic about voting at all, which... well, if their racism really did become a primary vote determinant, why didn't they vote for Trump? But people aren't static, so yeah, treating them as if they were is stupid. Which is why it's important that the Democratic party actually start trying to lead on poo poo and convince people to come over to their way of thinking.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:38
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zegermans posted:My concern is that people are so quick to dismiss racial concerns of minorities because in this election the white working poor didn't show up, but what if you swing too far the other way, tell black people they're getting lynched by police because minimum wage is too low, and then THEY don't show up in 2020? Only a racist like you would do that. Other people who hopefully will take control of the DNC soon, say the structural racism in the criminal justice system is a huge problem that is exasperated by wealth inequality. A good way to fix that is two fold. Increasing accountability for the police, and phasing out the drug war, as well as ensuring that racist laws like gun control aren't passed. Simultaneously we will regulate Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and Bank of America that siphon money from the majority of the citizenry, particularly the poorest, but also the salaried class.
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Nov 28, 2016 16:50
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zegermans posted:Mostly everyone. Maybe my perspective is a bit warped because the people I deal with daily kinda do fit largely into the "racist hicks" stereotype. It's hosed up that you, personally, don't hire black people. Have you considered that maybe you are the "real" racist? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 28, 2016 16:52
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Obama thought about shutting down Gitmo but then he realized it wouldn't end racism.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:02
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Pon de Bundy posted:Hillary lost to Donald trump . The first time , okay , the really charismatic first time black president , okay she can deal with that , but you lose to Donald trump how can you recover ? She's only human Amanda Marcotte and her ilk of people who think the flyover country is just lovely poor people who ruin things will begin writing articles in 2018-2019 about Hillary 3.0 where sh'es learned the value of humility and why it's going to lead to the dems having 60 seats in the senate and 2/3rds the house along with her presidential victory.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:09
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GlyphGryph posted:I think we also have to worry about the fact that if these voters begin to feel abandoned by the party and turn to Republicans or even just tune out, they will probably begin embracing the rhetoric and beliefs of their new "team" to a greater extent. Similarly, winning them over might not change their underlying feelings but would probably make them more likely to publicly be less racist. And we didn't even lose to Trump voters! We lost to people unenthusiastic about voting at all, which... well, if their racism really did become a primary vote determinant, why didn't they vote for Trump? I suppose the flip side of my first point is, if the Democrats can make a great argument about Trump's policies trampling minority rights endangering everyone's rights, we might be able to win over people to believing in racial justice. Especially if we're offering them something built specifically for them. If we can win over enough people with a progressive economic platform, the team sports mentality can be used to help gain further support for minority issues. We need to get down and dirty and do some legitimate horse trading with a variety of people to make the party work. The Democratic Party has been doing an OK job getting people to accept the milquetoast economic policy in exchange for civil rights protection/expansion. It needs to come up with a way to get people to accept civil rights protection/expansion for some serious progressive economic policy. Not disagreeing here, I've just been thinking about this in a slightly different way today and wanted to throw it out there.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:09
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I am of the opinion that increased accountability for police would solve that issue more quickly and completely than Making Sure Each And Every Policeman Is Not Racist, on account of (a) it is actually feasible, and (b) if racist cops are not allowed to kill anyone they want for any reason with no repercussions, they at least won't be killing black people for no reason in the meantime but the rest of powercrazy's post was just salt mugrim posted:Amanda Marcotte and her ilk of people who think the flyover country is just lovely poor people who ruin things will begin writing articles in 2018-2019 about Hillary 3.0 where sh'es learned the value of humility and why it's going to lead to the dems having 60 seats in the senate and 2/3rds the house along with her presidential victory. Speaking as someone who has a proven track record of hating Amanda Marcotte, does anyone take her seriously? The only context I've ever seen her quoted was by people talking about how dumb and bad she is. Does the have any actual influence? loquacius has issued a correction as of 17:12 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 17:09
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