FactsAreUseless posted:

You can't make this argument and at the same time be arguing for registration of Muslims. Registration of Muslims is the kind of decision you get with "Republican control of everything and most states and Supreme Court." That's exactly the kind of idea the left should be fighting against. It has nothing to do with economic populism. It's just a really dumb idea based in an irrational fear of a politically unpopular group and a bunch of idiotic myths about "taqiyya" or whatever.

cheese posted:

If I were to promote a platform of economic populism, with the idea that all people are deserving of equal rights and security of basic material comfort at its center, what specific policies or positions would be at odds with a platform of identity politics?

Black Baby Goku posted:

We are talking election politics, and the politics of radical Islam. It's two separate issues. Yes Islam is a problem. Yes not focusing on class and instead dealing with pet issues of any given group crying about and calling the other side racist and bigots doesn't win elections. We are talking two separate things here.

Domestic Amuse posted:

That's the lesson the Dems will be dumb enough to take away. You've heard it here first.

Fidel Castronaut posted:

Again, you keep saying this as if you think this is a good rebuttal. You think election politics discussion focuses too much on identity and not enough on class. You go off for pages on Muslims, an identity, and spend no meaningful time creating a discussion about class. You are shaping discourse and it is counter to the discourse you think we should be engaging in

Lead by example or shut the gently caress up about "class before all else."

Black Baby Goku posted:

So focusing on class issues makes me a notorious ultra-right racist troll? Wow this forum has a lot of insane people lol.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Uh, that GBS thread wasn't you know, a real opinion. Lol. I have a problem with Islam. Not Muslims.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Radical Islam has nothing to do with class. Okay?

FactsAreUseless posted:

Well, that's one of the reasons people are accusing you of being an ultra-right wing Reddit 4chan MRA helltroll. It's real opinion whiplash!

Guy Goodbody posted:

Yeah, there's probably a secret cabal of conservatives trying to drive the Democrats away from the guiding light of Hillary and onto the rocks of class-consciousness.

That makes sense to me

Black Baby Goku posted:

What?

Lightning Knight posted:

The argument isn't that the platform is the problem. The argument is that historically white leftists have run on economic populism and then when in power made that populism For White People Only.

See: the New Deal, the GI Bill, etc.

It's an issue of representation and implementation, more so than a grievance with class politics as a concept.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Radical Islam has nothing to do with class. Okay?

Trabisnikof posted:

"I don't have a problem with Jews, I just have problems with Judaism that's all" said the antisemite.

Lightning Knight posted:

The argument isn't that the platform is the problem. The argument is that historically white leftists have run on economic populism and then when in power made that populism For White People Only.

See: the New Deal, the GI Bill, etc.

It's an issue of representation and implementation, more so than a grievance with class politics as a concept.

the black husserl posted:

Sure, I bet Black Baby Goku is just sincerely trying to help the left win. The dude who gets probated weekly for posting racial slurs in is just trying to help his friends, the Democrats, out with some heartfelt advice about those bad Identity Politics.

There's no secret cabal dude, I'm talking you suckers getting played constantly by the laziest trolls. Instead of talking about Trump's latest lurch into authoritarian hilarity we've got 100 posts about "is fear of muslims RATIONAL?"

Seriously man, I don't tend to remember online posters "personalities" but your posting is so constantly trollish and lovely that you stand out. and the "rap sheet" button is right there man, anyone can click it and go "oh"

Guy Goodbody posted:

Are there any more recent examples?

Lightning Knight posted:

The history of modern radicalization is Islam stems from rich white nations going to poorer Muslim nations to take their land and resources, this is a preposterous claim.

Guy Goodbody posted:

Are there any more recent examples?

Jizz Festival posted:

If you were attempting to make a more intelligent point with that post I didn't see it.

Lightning Knight posted:

I'm sure they are but I don't have something handy. The point is that people keep saying "we should run on the New New Deal!" and nobody wants to face up to the fact that the first New Deal left black people out in the cold. We have to grapple with that history to build a coalition between minorities and working class white people again.

cheese posted:

Ok so lets do that then.

FactsAreUseless posted:

I wouldn't live there if you paid me to.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Oh so thats what led to the Arab Spring

Lightning Knight posted:

I'm sure they are but I don't have something handy. The point is that people keep saying "we should run on the New New Deal!" and nobody wants to face up to the fact that the first New Deal left black people out in the cold. We have to grapple with that history to build a coalition between minorities and working class white people again.

Black Baby Goku posted:

There is a difference in trolling GBS to see who actually agrees with that, and saying Islam is bad, here is why, and we need to focus on Class issues instead of race and identity ones to win elections, but whatever. If you don't fall in line in this forum people fall over themselves to post mentally ill screeds against you.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Guy Goodbody posted:

Are there any more recent examples?

Guy Goodbody posted:

Why can't we run on a new New Deal*?



*not racist this time

Ogmius815 posted:

Why does the institutional racism underlying the new deal mean that "the new new deal" can't be designed not to be institutionally racist?

Black Baby Goku posted:

Seriously it's like attaching anyone who disagrees with your leftist marching orders and says maybe focus on economy and class gets called a racist troll and maybe this is why you lost the election to Donald Trump and I think it's time your voices need to be drowned out by more reasonable approaches. Because what you are doing didn't work and isn't working and everyone outside of crazy echo chambers like this forum agrees and laughs at you. It's why people like Trump are in power now. It's why they control the house senate and soon the Supreme Court. Your time is over. Let's have some different opinions now.

Lightning Knight posted:

I mean I've already offered a solution: run minority candidates who are young and charismatic on a platform that aggressively reorients to labor concerns. People threw a shitfit when I suggested maybe white male leftists shouldn't snap up every leadership position we can find and instead seek out and endorse strong minority leaders for the movement.

Keith Ellison (or Perez) would be great. Howard Dean, not so much.

sit on my Facebook posted:

I almost hope that r/theDonald is actually following through with their plan of sending out coordinated trolls to places like this thread because if it just got this bad spontaneously then that's even more disappointing.

FactsAreUseless posted:

Sure, I get that, but lots of actual racists have used economic populism or a rejection of identity politics as covers for actual racism. For instance, Donald Trump. That's why people are having trouble engaging with you in good faith. I'm not saying it's fair, just that there's a wider political context that's causing you and other posters to talk past each other. I know that your opinions are sincere because I've actually spoken to you, but that's why people think you're trolling. Posting a thread about registering Muslims in GBS earlier, trolling or not, doesn't help that.