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Karl Barks posted:lol if obama goes down as a modern day buchanan nah he'll go down as someone whose (exceedingly modest) accomplishments were wrecked by his successor
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Nov 29, 2016 01:04
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It will be like Lincoln preceding Buchanan
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Nov 29, 2016 01:07
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Dr_0ctag0n posted:You don't speak to many conservatives do you? They blame every Bush era policy failure and debt on Obama and are about to blame him for when republicans gut medicare after he's in office. ah but the debt went up while Obama was in office, even though the deficit that created the debt was due to policy from the Bush admin. Obama gets blamed for lots of other bullshit Bush era stuff but that's more because the republican party has an iron grip on all the domestic propaganda machines in this country and have conditioned their voters to never actually fact check any of it
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Nov 29, 2016 01:09
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Nonsense posted:It will be like Lincoln preceding Buchanan It's not like Andrew Johnson was very quality.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:45
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mugrim posted:You would have lost too. The issue wasn't that Trump didn't have enough bad press. Especially in the Rovian era of attacking your opponents' strengths: Trump was allowed to get away with the "patriotic" and "honest" mantles despite being a selfish lying hypocrite. We should have gone after the evangelical vote for his infidelity (brazenly forgetting about Bill), we should have gone aggressively after veterans and patriots and painted Trump as somebody who only thinks he has to "make America great again" because he's trying to use the White House to restore his own lost fortune. We painted him as the wrong kind of villain. quote:It's that Democrats didn't get out and vote. Obama had 69m voters in 2008 where there were 28m fewer eligible voters. Clinton will be lucky if she matches his number, despite the national eligible voters being like 13% higher. Every Democrat knows Trump is a piece of poo poo and after 2008 there's a fuckton of legacy Democrats, many of whom helped campaign. Hell, lots of republicans do too. But Clinton didn't give people anything to vote for. She proposed crazy bureaucracies for new college students combined with hilariously tone deaf ideas for everyone who already has debt (all of which doesn't even begin to address private loans). She couldn't even come out for a 15 dollar minimum wage or single payer. And it's not like she's oozing charisma so she can bullshit her way in. She did come out for $15, after the convention as part of the compromise with Bernie. It was part of her platform. That's another thing: she didn't push that issue NEARLY enough, to the point where many people think she didn't even support it at all. She never even attacked Trump for once saying there shouldn't be any minimum wage and flip-flopping on the issue! And such an attack ad (or debate line) would have killed two birds with one stone by highlighting her own support for it. The plan for existing public student debt involved halving interest, and for private student loan debt involved refinancing and subsidized forgiveness. It sounded unsexy. It was bureaucratic boondoggle. But it would have worked, dammit. quote:Everyone who voted FOR Hillary just because we hated/feared/disliked Trump (I'm in that bucket) already did so, but that's not quite the huge population you think it is that will vote solely for that reason. Some conservatives won't vote for that reason, which is part of what we saw with republican turn out. But getting out the vote means getting people to drive cars, volunteer, and make sure every possible voter who's touched the campaign gets to the polls. The issue is you need to win Democrats who only vote for poo poo, and Clinton gave them nothing to vote for. Obama ignored many promises, but the promises he made during the campaign were pretty simple. Close Gitmo. Get a public option. End the war in Iraq. I should have been clearer, because we're actually in the same boat on most of this. I pushed very hard for 8 long months to infect others with much-needed enthusiasm for Hillary for this exact reasoning. I refused to hire (paid) canvassers unless they expressed some enthusiasm for her; hating Trump alone sent their application to the recycling bin. At the doors, we were pushing: $15/hr minimum wage. 2 years free public college tuition for middle-class students. Expansion of civil rights, protecting the environment. (And, to the right audience, Keeping guns out of the hands of terror suspects.) It was completely different from what they said in the air, and our ground game was VERY effective where they sent us. We got tons of votes out of Miami-Dade and Broward Counties. Where my office campaigned, we did very well. I can't tell you how many times I recited, trumpeted her litany of accomplishments that sadly went almost completely unmentioned nationally: "As Secretary of State, she visited 125+ countries and built up important connections restoring America's reputation around the world. She got enough other countries to pass sanctions on Iran that it brought them to the table for the nuclear agreement, which is great for peace. In the Paris agreement, she negotiated for China to agree to curb its emissions for the historic first time. As Senator, she secured additional healthcare for heroic firefighters and police and helped rebuild New York after 9/11. As first lady of the US, she was the key player in SCHIP, which has insured dozens of millions of children and saved many lives. And as first lady of Arkansas, she vastly improved their public education system. She's been pushing for children and families her whole life, starting with when she worked for the Children's Defense Fund." (This is similar to her own once-or-twice recited list, except the couple of times she did it was chronologically ascending instead of descending, which through experimentation I learned was more persuasive. Otherwise, people zoned out after "Children's Defense Fund") I recited this to every canvasser I hired on their first day. I wrote them down and hung them up on the wall. I rattled them off to people at their doors and on the phone and saw their eyes light up at the moment the persuasion "clicked." Hell, even an advertisement with just that list would have made a huge difference in reminding people they were fighting FOR something. There's no living person in US politics (Presidents aside) who's accomplished more than Hillary. I challenge anybody to name one.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:58
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loquacius posted:Fulchrum, your side won the primary, how are you still this mad about it Check the rap sheet for your answer to how mad he is. No I'm not kidding. 
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Nov 29, 2016 02:28
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Nameless_Steve posted:ABSOLUTELY. I campaigned my rear end off in Florida, and we did a fantastic job on the ground where they sent us, squeezing every last vote out of the blue counties. But this war was lost by the generals, and they lost it in the air with their ineffective advertisements and weak messaging. yes, surely the solution to beating donald trump is to give him MORE airtime
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Nov 29, 2016 02:48
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https://twitter.com/micahuetricht/status/803332881137496064
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Nov 29, 2016 02:49
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spot on
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Nov 29, 2016 02:52
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how is it there's so much testimony that stuff like this was happening and yet people still claim they absolutely were running on issues because it was right there on the website and in stump speeches viewed by 50 people each
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Nov 29, 2016 03:13
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https://twitter.com/chuchugoogoo/status/706847968515760128
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Nov 29, 2016 03:14
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Nameless_Steve posted:No small part of the increase in eligible voters WAS because of Hillary and the Democratic Party doing a huge voter registration push and helping residents attain citizenship. You misunderstand me as well as the article, I mean voters of voting age, I wasn't even talking about registered. As a percentage she's one of the worst democratic candidates since the VRA, around the bottom third. The worst part is she has every possible monetary and tech advantage. We're talking about a candidate who can in 30 seconds reach every single one of her constituents who did worse than people who had to wait days for mailers to get out who ALSO had the hindrance of limited air time due to different legal standards. Trump did worse than Romney, and still won. Nameless_Steve posted:She did come out for $15, after the convention as part of the compromise with Bernie. It was part of her platform. That's another thing: she didn't push that issue NEARLY enough, to the point where many people think she didn't even support it at all. Nothing is more inspiring to working class people who lean democrat than the knowledge that if they get a massive voting block attached to them they have to offer up, they can leverage a candidate into taking a position they should have had in the first place. Truly, progress in our time. She had a progressive cause that had THOUSANDS of organizers in it's network and she refused to work with them until it came with a listserv database. gently caress her. Nameless_Steve posted:She never even attacked Trump for once saying there shouldn't be any minimum wage and flip-flopping on the issue! And such an attack ad (or debate line) would have killed two birds with one stone by highlighting her own support for it. Nope, again, Trump was caught on camera saying he'd molest women. We're way beyond the point of moral or character flaws like hypocrisy mattering. The fact any democrat doesn't get this boggles my loving mind. quote:The plan for existing public student debt involved halving interest, and for private student loan debt involved refinancing and subsidized forgiveness. It sounded unsexy. It was bureaucratic boondoggle. But it would have worked, dammit. I actually researched the gently caress out of her plan because I know multiple people who owe over 100k and I still owe tons of money, and it's bullshit and unneeded bureaucracy from every level. It's unsexy because it's unneeded bullshit, and no, it wouldn't have worked. Much of what she was proposing would be giving options to private lenders to renegotiate for longer terms with more money. Guess what, they have that option now, and even if you added all the normal protections as part of the move, you're still taking a constant stream of money from people who are currently hilariously underemployed. Until you make the loans dischargeable through bankruptcy or make the max default garnishment rate less than a quarter, none of the math changes for lenders. Until you tell schools they can't get private financing AND public financing for tuition, they won't change how they operate. quote:I should have been clearer, because we're actually in the same boat on most of this. I pushed very hard for 8 long months to infect others with much-needed enthusiasm for Hillary for this exact reasoning. I refused to hire (paid) canvassers unless they expressed some enthusiasm for her; hating Trump alone sent their application to the recycling bin. This is what you don't get. In 2004 the anti-war effort was strong and despite being a lackluster uninspiring candidate, people still supported him. In 2008 people were busting down the doors of our paid FO offices to work totally unpaid for 60 hours a week for Obama. White retired women in hyper rural Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois and who haven't seen a black man this decade in person were loving inspired and dedicating every single day and weekends to this dude. Even In 2012 I did dozens of hours unpaid helping the campaign. In 2016 lots of former coworkers had a REAL tough time just hitting her name on the loving ballot box. She is literally one of the least inspiring and terrible politicians of the modern era. Obama beat a loving war hero who had a story straight out of a Clint Eastwood movie old people would jack off to, she couldn't beat Donald loving Trump with a leaked tape talking about how much he loves to molest women. I literally wasn't all that worried about the election until I heard she was campaigning in hyper conservative states and I was like "whoa, does she actually think she'll beat Obama...?" because it reeked of yes men telling her she could run a Nixon-McGovern style blow out. quote:I can't tell you how many times I recited, trumpeted her litany of accomplishments that sadly went almost completely unmentioned nationally: If this was a resume contest, Donald Trump wouldn't have won the primary, let alone the general. It's nice how your resume doesn't include "Voted for Iraq" though. mugrim has issued a correction as of 03:26 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 03:14
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Venom Snake posted:spot on Interesting data from a link in the article.  http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/black-millennials-arent-united-behind-clinton-like-their-elders/ It seems that Sanders is more popular with blacks and latinos than he is with whites.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:03
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Hey fuckers according to MY GIRLFRIEND "lemon bars are cookies because they have a shortbread bottom which is a cookie and the lemon part is just like toppings" and she knows Logical fallacy! Appeal to authority Also SEXIST!!!!
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Nov 29, 2016 04:03
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punk rebel ecks posted:Interesting data from a link in the article. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 29, 2016 04:13
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So is the democratic party still doing a circular firing squad or are they actually trying to unify behind some kind of message/leader and if so is it hillary 2.0 or something actually viable?
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Nov 29, 2016 04:19
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SpRahl posted:So is the democratic party still doing a circular firing squad or are they actually trying to unify behind some kind of message/leader and if so is it hillary 2.0 or something actually viable? House minority leader election is Wednesday iirc 
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Nov 29, 2016 04:22
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SpRahl posted:So is the democratic party still doing a circular firing squad or are they actually trying to unify behind some kind of message/leader and if so is it hillary 2.0 or something actually viable? There's not really anything for the party to officially do until DNC chair and minority leader elections like crazy cloud said. that's why this thread is getting a little weird, it's in the classic political thread holding pattern of attacking each other's opinions for slight differences.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:28
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crazy cloud posted:House minority leader election is Wednesday iirc its going to be pelosi again, she has the dem caucus on lockdown
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Nov 29, 2016 04:27
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SpRahl posted:So is the democratic party still doing a circular firing squad or are they actually trying to unify behind some kind of message/leader and if so is it hillary 2.0 or something actually viable? They're all backing Keith Ellison. Everyone except Dean has dropped out of running for the chair position, and since no-one is publicly supporting him, he's decided to be the loudest voice in the room on bashing Trump. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/howard-dean-steve-bannon-nazi/index.html You have to at least admire him for going all out with it. Other Dems have said he's racist, he has no place in government, but only Dean so far has had the balls to straight up call a nazi exactly what they are.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:37
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so what's wrong with pelosi other than "been leader for a billion years" and "isn't a bernie disciple?" is there anything wrong?
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Nov 29, 2016 04:41
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UHD posted:so what's wrong with pelosi other than "been leader for a billion years" and "isn't a bernie disciple?" nothing, she was excellent at keeping the house dems in line
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Nov 29, 2016 04:42
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UHD posted:so what's wrong with pelosi other than "been leader for a billion years" and "isn't a bernie disciple?" i certainly can't think of anything and view her tight control of house dems as mega plus. i also thought harry reid was good because he owned at the minutiae of the senate despite killing yucca
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Nov 29, 2016 04:43
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people are generally upset and they want everybody they can get their hands on to pay for it
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Nov 29, 2016 04:43
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Well, she's an effective lightning rod. The only chance Republicans have for the midterms is to go hard on hammering the liberal boogeyman drum, but there really aren't any of the people they've put time and money into making their base blindly vote against around right now. Pelosi is the only figure who could inspire that hate-voting reflex.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:45
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I'm literally the most insane frothingly radical leftist and I hope Pelosi keeps the gig. She's good and I like having a lady from San Francisco in charge of poo poo 
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Nov 29, 2016 04:56
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Pelosi seems like she can take anything the GOP throws at her, and so long as she sees the way the wind is blowing I'm cool with her.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:58
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I hate pelosi and hope a bird poops on her when she goes outside
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Nov 29, 2016 05:02
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Pelosi puts my ultra-conservative family members into frothing rage. I think that's a good thing.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:04
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pelosi is the most progressive speaker the dems have ever had, i really don't know why there's a big share of progressives who always want to replace her. but she's probably the best possible option for democrats because she's the rare combination of being both to the left of her own party and still an extremely effective leader of her caucus. i don't think anyone is voting/not voting for their congressperson because nancy pelosi is around, so i'd rather have someone effective, progressive, and unpopular than a minority leader that is popular but not so much the other two.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:04
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I hope the outcome of the house minority leader election is everyone just writing 'Free Matey' on their ballot.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:11
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punk rebel ecks posted:Interesting data from a link in the article. good lord the comments on that 538 thing
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Nov 29, 2016 05:11
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zen death robot posted:He's not banned you know that right Yeah, I saw him post in a basketball thread the other day.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:19
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Concerned Citizen posted:pelosi is the most progressive speaker the dems have ever had, i really don't know why there's a big share of progressives who always want to replace her. but she's probably the best possible option for democrats because she's the rare combination of being both to the left of her own party and still an extremely effective leader of her caucus. I dunno, in 2010, Pelosi had 400 attack ads for her, a big majority of them having the Republican attacking her instead of their own opponent.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:27
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So who wants to participate in this week's political podcast? Once again, this is the link to the discord.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:32
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Nov 29, 2016 05:54
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lol @ Fulchrum's new avatar
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Nov 29, 2016 05:58
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uh is that supposed to be her literal head? usually you gray scale the head sculpture thing
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Nov 29, 2016 06:09
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firebeats posted:lol @ Fulchrum's new avatar poo poo did he go full zoux
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Nov 29, 2016 06:09
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:poo poo did he go full zoux you can't go full zoux without having power
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Nov 29, 2016 06:11
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