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On the bright side, this means that most elderly Trump voters will be dead by 2020
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Nov 29, 2016 06:08
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All of this healthcare talk has reminded me of a little thing from one of the first Republican debates way back last fall. It might have been the one with the Ronald Reagan plane. Anyway the subject of healthcare came up, specifically about whether uninsured people should be denied medical care at the doctors/emergency room. Something along those lines. Anyway all of the GOP suits on stage were waffling about this and that trying to avoid the question because obviously they all believed that yes they should be denied. But Trump came right out and said that he wasn't going to let people die on the streets, that yes they should get medical treatment. Obviously he waffled about how that would be paid for and whatnot but I remember thinking that that was pretty significant at the time just because for one small moment he actually seemed to give a drat about someone else. Just something interesting that I remembered tonight.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:11
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:All of this healthcare talk has reminded me of a little thing from one of the first Republican debates way back last fall. It might have been the one with the Ronald Reagan plane. Anyway the subject of healthcare came up, specifically about whether uninsured people should be denied medical care at the doctors/emergency room. Something along those lines. Anyway all of the GOP suits on stage were waffling about this and that trying to avoid the question because obviously they all believed that yes they should be denied. But Trump came right out and said that he wasn't going to let people die on the streets, that yes they should get medical treatment. Obviously he waffled about how that would be paid for and whatnot but I remember thinking that that was pretty significant at the time just because for one small moment he actually seemed to give a drat about someone else. I doubt Trump could possibly give a rat's rear end about anyone's actual life. He just had the balls to say the right sounding thing and didn't care about the obvious logical conclusions like the other Republicans did. That's really what made him successful to them: he spews the same contradictions and gibberish they do, but doesn't even try to add any kind of reasoning to what he says. That lets him promise the base the moon, even if it means contradicting himself in the same sentence. This lets him spew much, much bigger lies with absolute confidence and respond to questions with far more forceful gibberish punctuated by personal attacks on those who question him. He has no positions, no cares about even attempting logic, and absolutely no shame which makes him the ideal candidate to bend the republican reality distortion machine to his will.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:19
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Lacrosse posted:Guys, I had a thought: The fact that they'd go up against actual Republicans in the primaries? People cared about more than just the letter after the name when the far right spent the last eight years purging "RINOs" via primary challenges, or when the left threw a big fit about "Blue Dogs" in 2008.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:21
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Hollismason posted:Oh and Texas has the whole you gotta cremate and bury fetal remains law that goes into effect in mid December. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Funeral lobby making bank!
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Nov 29, 2016 06:21
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:All of this healthcare talk has reminded me of a little thing from one of the first Republican debates way back last fall. It might have been the one with the Ronald Reagan plane. Anyway the subject of healthcare came up, specifically about whether uninsured people should be denied medical care at the doctors/emergency room. Something along those lines. Anyway all of the GOP suits on stage were waffling about this and that trying to avoid the question because obviously they all believed that yes they should be denied. But Trump came right out and said that he wasn't going to let people die on the streets, that yes they should get medical treatment. Obviously he waffled about how that would be paid for and whatnot but I remember thinking that that was pretty significant at the time just because for one small moment he actually seemed to give a drat about someone else. Makes me wonder how many Trump voters are going to bend over backwards to be okay with him removing their healthcare. I'm curious to see if the Republicans will actually have the balls to make those sort of cuts, because healthcare seems like one of the few issues GOP voters would legitimately turn on them for.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:24
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HorseRenoir posted:Makes me wonder how many Trump voters are going to bend over backwards to be okay with him removing their healthcare. I'm curious to see if the Republicans will actually have the balls to make those sort of cuts, because healthcare seems like one of the few issues GOP voters would legitimately turn on them for. When's Bevin up for re-election? 2018?
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Nov 29, 2016 06:26
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HorseRenoir posted:Makes me wonder how many Trump voters are going to bend over backwards to be okay with him removing their healthcare. I'm curious to see if the Republicans will actually have the balls to make those sort of cuts, because healthcare seems like one of the few issues GOP voters would legitimately turn on them for. I imagine that they'll be safe for a while if they gut it for everyone below 45 so long as they use enough weasel language to make it sound good to their base. They just have to hope that the full impact won't come in until after a Democrat is in charge again.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:29
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Tir McDohl posted:Funeral lobby making bank! No because it's a effective shutdown when Funeral Companies start getting picketed by Anti-Abortion protesters. So you have these wack jobs showing up to nearby crematoriums etc.. during someone's service and screaming about them burning babies or some crazy poo poo . Then you'll have like one funeral home in bumfuck wherever that does them until they're found out and pictures of the owner get plastered all over the neighborhood he lives in calling him a baby killer. Anti-Abortion protesters are loving crazy.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:31
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Hollismason posted:Washington Post story on Price as HHS pretty much confirmation at the death of ACA and well thousands of people really. Legitimately terrified for a couple of friends. And for myself, for that matter, given that there was basically no option for me to get affordable healthcare coverage as a self-employed person pre-ACA, but at least I'll have options and theoretically be able to afford something. I'm honestly having trouble thinking of any equivalent in modern US history to the loss of the ACA. This is such a huge step back that it's just unimaginable that it's actually going to happen.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:30
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Dylan Roof has elected to represent himself in his murder trial.  There ain't no brakes on the death penalty train! http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...tm_content=2055
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Nov 29, 2016 06:34
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Dylan Roof has elected to represent himself in his murder trial. maybe he'll be able to swing a presidential pardon
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Nov 29, 2016 06:36
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Paradoxish posted:Legitimately terrified for a couple of friends. And for myself, for that matter, given that there was basically no option for me to get affordable healthcare coverage as a self-employed person pre-ACA, but at least I'll have options and theoretically be able to afford something. I imagine that the many, many other steps back to come will make it seem less shocking later. I'm not kidding when I say that the GOP will do their best to see us reduced to peasants by the time they finish this term. They found the perfect way to let the nation vote to kill itself while lining their pockets.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:36
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HorseRenoir posted:Makes me wonder how many Trump voters are going to bend over backwards to be okay with him removing their healthcare. I'm curious to see if the Republicans will actually have the balls to make those sort of cuts, because healthcare seems like one of the few issues GOP voters would legitimately turn on them for. they'll blame democrats
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Nov 29, 2016 06:37
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DeusExMachinima posted:Dylan Roof has elected to represent himself in his murder trial. The hosed up thing, as local news pointed out tonight, is that he will be able to cross examine survivors and relatives of victims.  He's already confessed. Maybe one last torment?
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Nov 29, 2016 06:37
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boner confessor posted:they'll blame democrats Which they will also use as "evidence" to justify killing every other form of welfare like they've always dreamed.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:38
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"in other news, further cuts to medicaid leaves millions of low income americans without adequate healthcare" "ugh, it's all the undeserving poor who refuse to work who are taking up the money meant for people like me, on disablity, who need help"
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Nov 29, 2016 06:41
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LeeMajors posted:The hosed up thing, as local news pointed out tonight, is that he will be able to cross examine survivors and relatives of victims. Judging from the arraignment video the survivors and relatives possess superhuman levels of restraint, dignity, and grace. It isn't that they seek to deny him the pleasure of seeing their raw anguish, but that they're astoundingly kind and loving people and will likely openly pray for mercy on his soul and beg the judge for life in prison rather than death at sentencing.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:45
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HorseRenoir posted:On the bright side, this means that most elderly Trump voters will be dead by 2020 Boomers aren't quite that old.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:50
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FAUXTON posted:Judging from the arraignment video the survivors and relatives possess superhuman levels of restraint, dignity, and grace. It isn't that they seek to deny him the pleasure of seeing their raw anguish, but that they're astoundingly kind and loving people and will likely openly pray for mercy on his soul and beg the judge for life in prison rather than death at sentencing.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:57
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boner confessor posted:they'll blame democrats But blame it on who? Republicans have Congress and the White House, and that makes them responsible for whatever happens in the eyes of the public. Blaming the opposition party for obstructionism didn't work for the Dems during Obama, and blaming Obama won't work because people actually like him more than Trump. This won't work for everyone, but the people still blaming Dems are hardcore Republicans that were never going to vote D anyways. That's why McConnell isn't ditching the filibuster and why I don't think they'll have the balls to go through with all the healthcare cuts they want; being seen as the governing party in the public eye suddenly puts a lot of pressure on them that won't apply to the Democrats.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:01
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Kilroy posted:People like Dylan Roof consider that a sign of weakness and frankly, in this political environment, they might be right. Off with his loving head. Honestly I'd rather he live out the rest of his days in a cage.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:02
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HorseRenoir posted:But blame it on who? Republicans have Congress and the White House, and that makes them responsible for whatever happens in the eyes of the public. Blaming the opposition party for obstructionism didn't work for the Dems during Obama, and blaming Obama won't work because people actually like him more than Trump. This won't work for everyone, but the people still blaming Dems are hardcore Republicans that were never going to vote D anyways. That's why McConnell isn't ditching the filibuster and why I don't think they'll have the balls to go through with all the healthcare cuts they want; being seen as the governing party in the public eye suddenly puts a lot of pressure on them that won't apply to the Democrats. These are some nice facts you have there. It'd be a shame if anything...happened to them...
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Nov 29, 2016 07:02
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HorseRenoir posted:But blame it on who? Republicans have Congress and the White House, and that makes them responsible for whatever happens in the eyes of the public. Blaming the opposition party for obstructionism didn't work for the Dems during Obama, and blaming Obama won't work because people actually like him more than Trump. This won't work for everyone, but the people still blaming Dems are hardcore Republicans that were never going to vote D anyways. That's why McConnell isn't ditching the filibuster and why I don't think they'll have the balls to go through with all the healthcare cuts they want; being seen as the governing party in the public eye suddenly puts a lot of pressure on them that won't apply to the Democrats. ahh, the problem is you're applying critical thinking to suss out the political opinons of a group who are, because of various reasons ranging from actual illiteracy to crippling adherence to outdated social norms, not rational political thinkers one of the core problems of people who are otherwise of sound mind and mental capacity but are really invested in the protestant work ethic is that they are super into the idea of gendered work and their very identity as masculine/feminine members of society rests on executing some economic role. men work hard in the mines, if you accept government help you are not a man, you're basically a broke dick, etc. this is why ultimately you can take people's healthcare away because at the end of the day they will convince themselves that somehow they didn't deserve it enough, for one reason or another, and if they're really sore about it they'll find someone to blame, and if their choices didn't lead to this (how could they) then it must be the other people, the bad people, who caused this problem, which is either welfare cheats or corrupt democrats depending on the scope boner confessor fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 07:04
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HorseRenoir posted:But blame it on who? Republicans have Congress and the White House, and that makes them responsible for whatever happens in the eyes of the public. Blaming the opposition party for obstructionism didn't work for the Dems during Obama, and blaming Obama won't work because people actually like him more than Trump. This won't work for everyone, but the people still blaming Dems are hardcore Republicans that were never going to vote D anyways. That's why McConnell isn't ditching the filibuster and why I don't think they'll have the balls to go through with all the healthcare cuts they want; being seen as the governing party in the public eye suddenly puts a lot of pressure on them that won't apply to the Democrats. Since when have facts stopped the GOP? I'm sure the voters will turn on them after a few years of their disaster, but only after they have enough time to pump out all their pipe dream ideas and ruin the country very thoroughly. Trump has lowered the bar for them to such a degree that nothing short of an undeniable catastrophe would be enough to make them worry about bothering to change. Especially since they have the perfect spray-tanned scapegoat, toothless media, and greatly expanded propaganda operation to misdirect their voters.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:10
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boner confessor posted:one of the core problems of people who are otherwise of sound mind and mental capacity but are really invested in the protestant work ethic is that they are super into the idea of gendered work and their very identity as masculine/feminine members of society rests on executing some economic role. men work hard in the mines, if you accept government help you are not a man, you're basically a broke dick, etc. Yeah, it's really hard to overstate how deep this kind of thinking goes in our society. Look at the backlash over $15/hour minimum wage, even from people who make less than $15/hour! Hell, look at all the negative publicity that Dan Price started getting when he decided to pay everyone at Gravity a minimum of $70k/year. It scares the poo poo out of me that a significant portion of the electorate is perfectly happy to blow up the country as long as they can convince themselves that they're still better than someone.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:18
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Geostomp posted:Since when have facts stopped the GOP? I'm sure the voters will turn on them after a few years of their disaster, but only after they have enough time to pump out all their pipe dream ideas and ruin the country very thoroughly. Trump has lowered the bar for them to such a degree that nothing short of an undeniable catastrophe would be enough to make them worry about bothering to change. Especially since they have the perfect spray-tanned scapegoat, toothless media, and greatly expanded propaganda operation to misdirect their voters. Obviously none of this stuff will happen until it starts affecting people. But this poo poo is an issue that GOP voters care about that is going to effect a lot of GOP voters directly, in an instantly noticeable way. How many Trump voters said "oh he's not going to touch my healthcare" or "well Trump is going to replace Obamacare with something better"? You can do mental gymnastics about strangers getting their benefits cut all you want, but the removal of the ACA effects nearly everybody, either directly or through a close family member. People are going to notice that their healthcare situation is noticeably worse from when Obama left office and they're not going to blame some faceless people in Congress, they're going to blame the big attention whore in the White House who specifically told them this bad thing would not happen to them.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:26
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, it's really hard to overstate how deep this kind of thinking goes in our society. Look at the backlash over $15/hour minimum wage, even from people who make less than $15/hour! Hell, look at all the negative publicity that Dan Price started getting when he decided to pay everyone at Gravity a minimum of $70k/year. It scares the poo poo out of me that a significant portion of the electorate is perfectly happy to blow up the country as long as they can convince themselves that they're still better than someone. Every minimum wage measure passed during the last election. Even in red states. LePage is trying to ignore it and get Maine's legislature to undo it.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:28
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Nevvy Z posted:What prevents someone from just making a not lovely insurance company and scooping up their customers? For one thing you make more money in insurance by not paying for care than by paying, so that theoretical philanthropist would lose more money than the scammers. For another nobody actually bargains for insurance, it's set by employers at third hand, and they buy what looks good on paper and is cheap. For another the only effective regulations on insurance fraud are state level and if Delaware passes a law saying insurance fraud is legal here all the firms will relocate there because the industry colludes. Deregulation of insurance is going to be even more amazing than deregulation of banks.and by more amazing I mean it's amazing how many people it's gonna kill.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:32
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HannibalBarca posted:maybe he'll be able to swing a presidential pardon Has Trump announced his pick for the DoJ yet?
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Nov 29, 2016 07:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Has Trump announced his pick for the DoJ yet? It's Jeff Sessions who is going to be picked for Attorney General.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:37
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Bueno Papi posted:Every minimum wage measure passed during the last election. Even in red states. LePage is trying to ignore it and get Maine's legislature to undo it. I'm aware, but most of these measures were relatively small increases. If we're talking about $12/hour by 2020 as a best case scenario for most states then we're not exactly in great shape. $15/hour still doesn't have 50% support at a national level. Republicans pretty much hate the idea of going above $10/hour. Minimum wage increases are popular when they're low enough that minimum wage is still awful.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:40
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, it's really hard to overstate how deep this kind of thinking goes in our society. Look at the backlash over $15/hour minimum wage, even from people who make less than $15/hour! Hell, look at all the negative publicity that Dan Price started getting when he decided to pay everyone at Gravity a minimum of $70k/year. It scares the poo poo out of me that a significant portion of the electorate is perfectly happy to blow up the country as long as they can convince themselves that they're still better than someone. Democrats need to take the dignity of work seriously, which kinda precludes Third-Way welfare state stuff, but fits rather well with actual socialism. I'd really like to see some data on support of minimum wage vs. e.g. a hypothetical regulation forcing public corporations to democratize their workforces a bit, or to implement profit sharing across their entire workforce. None of that stuff devalues work or conflicts with the Protestant work ethic at all, so all you'd have left to combat is the (admittedly very, very fierce) opposition to it from corporate media and various RWM bubbles. But, anyone running for office to the left of Mitch McConnell has to fight that these days anyway so  may as well go for broke.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:41
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HorseRenoir posted:You can do mental gymnastics about strangers getting their benefits cut all you want, but the removal of the ACA effects nearly everybody, either directly or through a close family member. People are going to notice that their healthcare situation is noticeably worse from when Obama left office and they're not going to blame some faceless people in Congress, they're going to blame the big attention whore in the White House who specifically told them this bad thing would not happen to them. yeah but these are voters who blamed regulations and offshoring for job loss instead of automation and the shift towards tertiary sector employment with commensurate wage and benefit dislocation because unions are evil (except for my union)
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Nov 29, 2016 07:41
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Paradoxish posted:Hell, look at all the negative publicity that Dan Price started getting when he decided to pay everyone at Gravity a minimum of $70k/year. It scares the poo poo out of me that a significant portion of the electorate is perfectly happy to blow up the country as long as they can convince themselves that they're still better than someone. You're missing a fundamental and powerful element of humanity, and that is a sense of fairness. It applies just as much to an aggregate as it does on a personal level. E: Fairness doesn't matter if it's factual or not, it's how it is perceived
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Nov 29, 2016 07:42
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, it's really hard to overstate how deep this kind of thinking goes in our society. Look at the backlash over $15/hour minimum wage, even from people who make less than $15/hour! Hell, look at all the negative publicity that Dan Price started getting when he decided to pay everyone at Gravity a minimum of $70k/year. It scares the poo poo out of me that a significant portion of the electorate is perfectly happy to blow up the country as long as they can convince themselves that they're still better than someone. It's a big part of the GOP's platform: it doesn't matter how openly they screw the populace over because they have been trained to hate themselves for not magically becoming rich, but will accept it all so long as they can claim that someone different than them is even worse off. The idea of status means everything to the white GOP base so they will gladly slit their throats just to spite someone else to soothe their egos. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 07:42
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Geostomp posted:It's a big part of the GOP's platform: it doesn't matter how openly they screw the populace over because they have been trained to hate themselves for not magically becoming rich, but will accept it all so long as they can claim that someone different than them is even worse off. The idea of status means everything to the white GOP base.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:46
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Which includes rejecting third wayism wholesale, cleaning the organization at its highest levels, and denouncing neoliberalism in favor of socialist democratic values. As to whether or not that happens, who knows? It probably has worse odds than what Trump supposedly had in the general.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:49
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Boon posted:You're missing a fundamental and powerful element of humanity, and that is a sense of fairness. It applies just as much to an aggregate as it does on a personal level. I'm not following your point. Are you saying that people view higher minimum wages as unfair? Because I'm not going to disagree that it's a problem that people see "low end" work as being unworthy of a good wage. Kilroy posted:This kind of thinking is going to get Democrats absolutely nowhere. Forever. Yeah, dedicated GOP voters are shitheels for voting to grant themselves power over their social inferiors (however they define it: race, religion, gender, orientation, etc). Some of them will vote for it no matter what, but many of them might opt for economic empowerment instead, if the Democrats start to really offer that. Economic empowerment doesn't exist for many of these people without government support. That support doesn't have to come in the form of direct monetary welfare, but there aren't market solutions to their problems. If they're unwilling to accept help in any form then there's nothing that can be done for them, no matter how much they want their lives to be better and no matter how much the people in power want to help them.
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Nov 29, 2016 07:49
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Paradoxish posted:I'm aware, but most of these measures were relatively small increases. If we're talking about $12/hour by 2020 as a best case scenario for most states then we're not exactly in great shape. $15/hour still doesn't have 50% support at a national level. Republicans pretty much hate the idea of going above $10/hour. I look at that and think there's a strong plurality of American's want a much higher minimum wage and 8% who probably work for Cato/AEI/GMU. There's this guy who equates the minimum wage with the worst of Castro's deeds. http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2016/11/how_castro_is_l.html
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Nov 29, 2016 07:50
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