|
blowfish posted:This No they just need to get extremely high and stop being such a bad poster 
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:02
|
|
guy in your post must have an extremely high opinion of himself.
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 07:41 |
|
|
Poland Spring posted:My goalpost was "who gives a poo poo about paperwork" so just keep on moving yours Also paperwork is, in fact, important because properly run regulatory agencies staffed with bureaucrats are
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:03
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
blowfish posted:Also paperwork is, in fact, important because properly run regulatory agencies staffed with bureaucrats are Stop being such a caricature of a German.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
blowfish posted:Also paperwork is, in fact, important because properly run regulatory agencies staffed with bureaucrats are Yeah your beuracrats sure are doing a great job helping civilization along by putting Immortan Joe in charge
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
Poland Spring posted:Yeah your beuracrats sure are doing a great job helping civilization along by putting Immortan Joe in charge i'm sorry but trump is getting the job because america is full of apathetic retards (that fail to turn out to vote against a major human disaster) and idiots (that can't tie their own shoelaces and blame foreigners for their stupidity), both of whom need to be counteracted by competent bureaucrats.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
blowfish posted:i'm sorry but trump is getting the job because america is full of apathetic retards (that fail to turn out to vote against a major human disaster) and idiots (that can't tie their own shoelaces and blame foreigners for their stupidity), both of whom need to be counteracted by competent bureaucrats. Ah, so should Mutti suspend elections, then? Or are Germans inherently superior to other peoples?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:13
|
|
|
Brainiac Five posted:Ah, so should Mutti suspend elections, then? Or are Germans inherently superior to other peoples? No, but we do have a better electoral system than you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
botany posted:No, but we do have a better electoral system than you. That's a direct contradiction of blowfish's argument that Germany is superior because its democratic institutions are a fraud and all power rests in an oligarchic bureaucracy. I suppose I can't blame you for refusing to read his posts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
Alright I'm trying to get an understanding on this issue and it's hard since most sources available are either dense primary documents or people having slapfights. Let me know if all of this is correct: - Standing Rock's argument is that the oil pipeline threatens the Yates water intake - Standing Rock has had previous water insecurity due to mismanaged water rights as recent as 2003. - A new water intake will be built in 2017 that will not be affected by the pipeline route. - Standing Rock and the US gov't do not agree on the sovereign boundaries of the reservation. Standing Rock believes this pipeline is within their reservation boundaries, ACoE does not believe it is. So am I correct that this is a sovereignty dispute not a water rights issue? I feel like this angle still gives Standing Rock a pretty strong argument for the land, but the justification is based on historical mistreatment of land boundaries and not the availability of safe drinking water. Edit: It also seems like there's a pretty good claim to not allow construction of the pipeline until an alternate water supply is built and functional.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
Brainiac Five posted:That's a direct contradiction of blowfish's argument that Germany is superior because its democratic institutions are a fraud and all power rests in an oligarchic bureaucracy. I suppose I can't blame you for refusing to read his posts. I never said I agree with blowfish 
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
botany posted:I never said I agree with blowfish Well, uh, I don't know why you made the post you did, then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
blowfish posted:i'm sorry but trump is getting the job because america is full of apathetic retards (that fail to turn out to vote against a major human disaster) and idiots (that can't tie their own shoelaces and blame foreigners for their stupidity), both of whom need to be counteracted by competent bureaucrats. You're right I keep forgetting all those poor bureaucrats blasted by hoses for counteracting oppressive governments back in the day, or the beuracrats providing community outreach and services to those who need it most. It was wrong of me to dismiss the power of paperwork, we all can remember the millions of brave beuracrats who have stood up to injustice by making sure it filled out the proper forms before doing what it was going to do anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:- Standing Rock and the US gov't do not agree on the sovereign boundaries of the reservation. Standing Rock believes this pipeline is within their reservation boundaries, ACoE does not believe it is. Some protesters literally want to stop all pipeline construction and would be protesting regardless of the location. The Standing Rock Sioux would be happy if it was somewhere else but that's not going up happen. Edit: Reminder: They currently have 1.3 billion waiting for them as compensation for the black hills being taken from them. They refuse to take the money because doing so would involve giving up the claim on land they lost a century ago. Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:Alright I'm trying to get an understanding on this issue and it's hard since most sources available are either dense primary documents or people having slapfights. Let me know if all of this is correct: The environmental impact survey concluded that the pipeline posed no significant danger to the current water source, it's not being relocated because it's actually necessary for the pipeline.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:http://www.usace.army.mil/Portals/2/docs/civilworks/nwp/2012/NWP_12_2012.pdf Yeah, I'm pretty sure that refers to acre-feet. Nothing in the document you linked, which is just a copy of NWP 12, indicates that submitting each crossing individually is in any way irregular. It wouldn't make sense to submit the entire pipeline, since the corps doesn't permit it for most of its length. You also wanted proof of the tribe's reluctance to participate in the consultation process. Here is the DC district court's denial of motion that covers the history of the case: [url] https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2016cv1534-39[/url]
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
Poland Spring posted:You're right I keep forgetting all those poor bureaucrats blasted by hoses for counteracting oppressive governments back in the day, or the beuracrats providing community outreach and services to those who need it most. It was wrong of me to dismiss the power of paperwork, we all can remember the millions of brave beuracrats who have stood up to injustice by making sure it filled out the proper forms before doing what it was going to do anyway. While bureaucrats are not the sole prerequisite for civilised society to function, they are a necessary prerequisite without which it can't function.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:Alright I'm trying to get an understanding on this issue and it's hard since most sources available are either dense primary documents or people having slapfights. Let me know if all of this is correct: It is much more of a sovereignty issue, however the tribe isn't going to pursue it legally as one because they have been nothing but hosed over by the US Government on that front. From the treaties being renegotiated at gunpoint once gold was found in the black Hills to the areas seized by eminent domain and flooded to satisfy the ACoE's projects.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 00:00
|
|
|
Brainiac Five posted:It's interesting to note that the idea of negotiating is completely foregone in the minds of Jarmak, blowjob, etc. The Lakota must stand aside or be ground into hamburger by cops and DAPL bulldozers. We must follow proper procedure, and if that procedure leads to us massacring elderly people in the name of oil, so much the better. Thank you! It isn't the Standing Rock Sioux (alone) that are protesting. Rather, the Standing Rock Sioux rolled over on this, and then ALL THE NATIONS OF TURTLE ISLAND decided they give a poo poo. A bunch of teens ran through Omaha, to Standing Rock, and then to DC (on *foot*) to sound the alarm. The Oceti Sakowin - the Seven Council Fires - set up on the land I'm living on. The Youth Council was gifted an Eagle Feather and a Sacred Chanupa. Three Hundred different Nations showed up - and their flags all fly at camp. People from around the world started showing up. Rainbow came - a bond was formed in 2015, when they camped in the Black Hills. Occupy came. Sacred Ground - the land on HWY 1806 under which the pipe had to be laid - became occupied. Burners showed up. Anons showed up. Lots of other groups too. There was an IF Iranian flag flying when I arrived. There are two Palestinian flags. 'Two Spirited' showed up. Extreme outdoorspersons. All sorts of people - Stakeholders, *TRULY*, in the fate of the Missouri, Mississippi, and Turtle Island - came to demo tech or help or (in some cases) do penance. Red Warrior, which I gather is a youth camp in Canada somewhere that Native folk can go to for a sort of 'boot camp' training (in their warrior culture), took charge of camp security. At this point, if I were DAPL, I'd open discussions with /all/ stakeholders. Instead, they hired a PR team, who hired Mercs and a hacker team, and got the Governor of North Dakota to declare a 'state of emergency' to mobilize the national guard (who really didn't seem to have much interest in this), and the Sheriff of Morton County to deputize Sheriffs from 400 different counties across the US. They built a War Camp to the north of us. Social Engineering tactics were devised to minimize our inconvenience to them. When it was convenient for them, they rolled over us in a phalanx, abusing our ears, our lungs and our bodies - and they took their objective. They've held that objective since. DAPL is digging under the river presently. The Army Corps invited DAPL and the Standing Rock Sioux to a table - mind you, there are many, many more stakeholders that deserve a seat at that table - and asked DAPL to stop work in the meantime. DAPL filed a lawsuit insisting they have no obligation to take a seat at that table. This is colonialism 101. The Oglala women poked holes in Custer's ears because he did not listen, in the hopes he would listen in the next life. They cut off his eye lids. They still have his flag, and it is prized - I've heard it's buried somewhere in Pine Ridge, and that there are only two people alive that know the location. Now Homeland Security is watching closely, because they at least recognized that such a hosed up situation can result in hosed up poo poo that threatens the security of the homeland. But I don't trust 'em.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
wateroverfire posted:And yet, being the scrappy underdog does not necessarily make your cause just. People can be sincere and passionate and still not have a case worth granting. IMO that is the case with the Lakota, who are wrong in their sincere belief they have rights to swaths of territory in the Great Plains beyond the borders of their reservation while law and custom for the last nearly 150 years disagrees with that notion. This is a straw man. Come to camp and listen. wateroverfire posted:
Robert's Rules of Order are old-tech. Socrates was put to death by a democracy. A Consensus is appropriate, when co-habitating. As for the land, if they are neither occupying it, nor actively engaging in good stewardship of it - what right do they have to it? And they won't even come to the table with any intention of /listening/. Gobbeldygook posted:Stop I'm sayin' if ten thousand people stand up and shout 'HEY! YOU! WHAT YOU'RE DOING! STOP!'... you might want to spend a /lot/ of time Listening.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 00:08
|
|
and address my point. You are arguing that people have an infinite right to stop other people from doing stuff they don't like as long as they are non-violent. If after Brown vs Board of Education men with guns hadn't enforced the right of black people to go to white schools, white people would have stopped black people from going to white schools by physically blockading the schools. Do you accept that your (insane) position also allows a heckler's veto over many good things such as the construction of mosques, new schools for the Lakota, whites and blacks going to the same schools, and women being allowed to get abortions? Or are you only allowed to protest if a committee of Native American elders certifies that your cause is Good and Just?
|
When Crazy Horse was 13 years old, he was in a camp similar to this. Might even have been Oceti Sakowin - not sure though. They had been relocated, and were malnourished as they waited for rations promised in a recent treaty to arrive. There was a War Camp next door, watching them. They were already, effectively, prisoners of war. A Mormon wagon train rolled through. Within that train, there was a cow - sickly, weak, thin, dying. An Oglala man took the cow, slaughtered it, cooked it, and fed it to his people. The owner of that cow was *incensed*, and marched over to the War Camp and demanded recompense - one Lakota slave, as reparations. The War Camp went to the Natives and demanded the Chief give up the man who stole that cow. The Chief refused. If the roles had been reversed, the Oglala would have offered to feed the Mormons.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Uglycat posted:I'm sayin' if ten thousand people stand up and shout 'HEY! YOU! WHAT YOU'RE DOING! STOP!'... you might want to spend a /lot/ of time Listening.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
It looks like Notorious and I had the same idea. I wanted to make sure I understood the different pipeline arguments because things get pretty convoluted. So I tried rewording a few of the different arguments along with the counter-arguments. I can start with the law and order argument and I'll share the other arguments later if this is useful in any ways. Let me know if the rewording is wrong or if anything's left out. The pro-pipeline law and order argument posted:The protesters actions are illegal. They had their chance in court. Their arguments were bad and they lost. And once you lose a court case you should accept the ruling-assuming the law appears just and it's executed justly. The pro-protester rebuttal. posted:A court ruling doesn't make something inherently good. The courts have made many bad rulings which resulted in the reaffirmation of slavery, jim crow, internment camps, etc. RandomPauI fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
Uglycat posted:This is a straw man. Come to camp and listen. It's 2016, the internet exists, if your side can't articulate their position clearly enough to make an argument without physically dragging people to their camp then frankly they suck. Uglycat posted:It isn't the Standing Rock Sioux (alone) that are protesting. Rather, the Standing Rock Sioux rolled over on this, and then ALL THE NATIONS OF TURTLE ISLAND decided they give a poo poo. A bunch of teens ran through Omaha, to Standing Rock, and then to DC (on *foot*) to sound the alarm. The Oceti Sakowin - the Seven Council Fires - set up on the land I'm living on. The Youth Council was gifted an Eagle Feather and a Sacred Chanupa. Three Hundred different Nations showed up - and their flags all fly at camp. People from around the world started showing up. Rainbow came - a bond was formed in 2015, when they camped in the Black Hills. Occupy came. Sacred Ground - the land on HWY 1806 under which the pipe had to be laid - became occupied. Burners showed up. Anons showed up. Lots of other groups too. There was an IF Iranian flag flying when I arrived. There are two Palestinian flags. 'Two Spirited' showed up. Extreme outdoorspersons. All sorts of people - Stakeholders, *TRULY*, in the fate of the Missouri, Mississippi, and Turtle Island - came to demo tech or help or (in some cases) do penance. Red Warrior, which I gather is a youth camp in Canada somewhere that Native folk can go to for a sort of 'boot camp' training (in their warrior culture), took charge of camp security.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 01:31
|
|
|
RandomPauI posted:
No one has made this argument, the argument that was made was that these laws appear just and executed justly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
Also,  at the bolded partUglycat posted:It isn't the Standing Rock Sioux (alone) that are protesting. Rather, the Standing Rock Sioux rolled over on this, and then ALL THE NATIONS OF TURTLE ISLAND decided they give a poo poo. A bunch of teens ran through Omaha, to Standing Rock, and then to DC (on *foot*) to sound the alarm. The Oceti Sakowin - the Seven Council Fires - set up on the land I'm living on. The Youth Council was gifted an Eagle Feather and a Sacred Chanupa. Three Hundred different Nations showed up - and their flags all fly at camp. People from around the world started showing up. Rainbow came - a bond was formed in 2015, when they camped in the Black Hills. Occupy came. Sacred Ground - the land on HWY 1806 under which the pipe had to be laid - became occupied. Burners showed up. Anons showed up. Lots of other groups too. There was an IF Iranian flag flying when I arrived. There are two Palestinian flags. 'Two Spirited' showed up. Extreme outdoorspersons. All sorts of people - Stakeholders, *TRULY*, in the fate of the Missouri, Mississippi, and Turtle Island - came to demo tech or help or (in some cases) do penance. Red Warrior, which I gather is a youth camp in Canada somewhere that Native folk can go to for a sort of 'boot camp' training (in their warrior culture), took charge of camp security.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
The governor has ordered an immediate evacuation of the protestors for their own safety due to the current snow storm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Also, Good, I hope they get run over by bulldozers and shot by the National Guard for having the temerity to express solidarity where a pig cop can hear them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:10
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:No one has made this argument, the argument that was made was that these laws appear just and executed justly. I apologize, I'll amend the post accordingly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:The Standing Rock Sioux want to roll back the borders to the 1851 treaty of Fort Laramie, ignoring the 1868 treaty of Fort Laramie because reasons. Liquid Communism posted:It is much more of a sovereignty issue, however the tribe isn't going to pursue it legally as one because they have been nothing but hosed over by the US Government on that front. From the treaties being renegotiated at gunpoint once gold was found in the black Hills to the areas seized by eminent domain and flooded to satisfy the ACoE's projects. Cool, both of these seem to at least reasonably line up with my suspicions. Trying to roll back to pre-black hills boundaries definitely indicates that they think they have rights to boundaries beyond what they currently have. I can see why they don't want to argue honestly from this perspective given historic precedent. Jarmak posted:The environmental impact survey concluded that the pipeline posed no significant danger to the current water source, it's not being relocated because it's actually necessary for the pipeline. Is it necessary? I thought there were previous versions they were considering (from a document posted in this thread), and this one was decided on due to less expected resistance from NIMBYs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
From known protestor-shill rag the Smithsonian, a little much-needed historical context: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ulysses-grant-launched-illegal-war-plains-indians-180960787/
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 02:53
|
|
|
Or just look at the 1862 dakota war/dakota uprising that predated that. Denying a group of people the resources they need to survive and things turn out badly. Anyway, for the rest of the last 3 page trainwreck, the first things I want to respond to, I know some of it has been addressed already but they're pretty terrible things: No one deserves to be hurt standing up for what they believe in. If it involves breaking the law to do so, because you believe those laws are part of the problem, then you accept the fact that legally you can be arrested, but that does not warrant being ran over by a bulldozer/killed, likewise the police don't deserve to be shot if they're arresting people. You deserve to be treated with respect if you're expressing your amendment rights, and if you're doing your sworn duty. Civil disobedience can actually be civil, it doesn't have to be civil like a civil war. Secondly, stop with the whole "white people in bismarck NIMBY'd", barring the whole evidence of the USACE assessment, there is an oil refinery right upstream of the bismarck intakes, there is a coal powerplant right upstream of the intakes, there is a major BNSF train line that is upstream of the intakes, if anything is going to hit that intake it's going to come from one of those sources before a pipeline, Mandan already had a huge diesel contamination spill from the rail line that I already mentioned. If they NIMBY'd it's because the backyard is already full of crap able to pollute the land. We have racists in Bismarck, I am not denying that. One of the things a friend told me to watch out for moving up here is that the casual racism that some people treat the african americans in chicago is the same way they treat the native people here. E.g.: this that happened back in 2013: http://bismarcktribune.com/business/local/employees-fired-for-facebook-post/article_2117b7f8-199b-11e3-806d-001a4bcf887a.html (context: the pow wow is the big gathering of native people at the united tribes technical college) Arguing against the Bismarck reroute through an unproven racial lens isn't going to solve anything. Stick with the well documented hundreds of other actually race based atrocities against native peoples. Lastly, don't critique a native people's beliefs unless you have a really, really good understanding of it, and even then I wouldn't. I don't/can't ever truly understand what all the Buffalo meant to the Lakota people, or what it meant to have them wiped out for food, hides, or for a lot of cases, pure sport/goal of denying them to natives. I'd love to read/hear about what the Lakota and other North Dakotan tribes view as their future, where they would like to see their nations in 10, 50, 100 years, but I am not going to try to cast judgement on it if there's parts I don't agree with, because it's probably due to the fact that I don't understand something. You're making me switch to progressively stronger alcohols to even attempt to cope with your arguments goons, please stop.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
Brainiac Five posted:Good, I hope they get run over by bulldozers and shot by the National Guard for having the temerity to express solidarity where a pig cop can hear them. They can protest if they want, but caring about something doesn't give you a legitimate stake in it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 05:11
|
|
|
Silento Boborachi posted:Or just look at the 1862 dakota war/dakota uprising that predated that. Denying a group of people the resources they need to survive and things turn out badly. ty for this good poo poo. What do you think should be done about the pipeline route?
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 05:31
|
|
|
At this point, the pipeline route is moot because the pipeline is already installed except for the route under the water, and that is apparently being drilled now. I think hindsight, everyone, USACE, energy transfer partners (sunoco now I guess), would agree they should have just put it by Bismarck and this whole thing would not have happened. Pipelines exist, we can debate what they do in the greater scheme of economics and climate policy, but that's not going to change all the pipelines by Williston, under Lake Sakakawea, or throughout the MHA nation. Keep in mind, the MHA nation has one of the richest parts of the Bakken shale play, and one tribal council leader in particular (looking at you, Tex Hall) pursued an aggressive "sovereignty by the barrel" policy that put oil wells and their supporting infrastructure all over the reservation. This lead to incredible economic wealth, but also a heavy backlash among the tribe that ultimately saw Tex Hall kicked out (I won't even go into the criminal charges against him). So for the pipeline route, I guess all I can say is as long as it followed all the rules, no change. It is not deserving of the scapegoat it has become. I'll leave you all with this, from the tribal fund created with oil royalties on the reservation: "The Three Affiliated Tribes Tribal Business Council recognizes the opportunity given to the people of the MHA Nation from the oil & gas development on the Fort Berthold Reservation. The People’s Fund has been created for the membership as a source of revenue long after the last barrel of oil is taken from our lands. As we have been fortunate to be blessed with this natural resource that has taken millions of years for Mother Nature to prepare. We shall extend the benefits of this resource perpetually into the future. The People’s Fund will continue to benefit the members of the Three Affiliated Tribes for many generations to come."
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 06:16
|
|
|
Stickarts posted:From known protestor-shill rag the Smithsonian, a little much-needed historical context: This is all
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 11:42
|
|
|
blowfish posted:This is all American Exceptionalism is a hell of a drug. Todays empires are tomorrows ashes, and the American one seems bent on speeding up the process.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 11:51
|
|
|
blowfish posted:This is all I'm Canadian and while Treaty rights and education are one of my focuses I simply don't have enough grounding in American history to wade into this discussion to any great degree. However, if my understanding of American-Indigenous historical relations is "like Canada's but worse" is roughly correct just bear with me. Note that this isn't necessarily directed at you. What I think that article shows above all else is the dysfunction that exists between First Nations and the federal jurisdictions they find themselves under. Everyone in this thread sussing and tut tutting about the letter of law are being willfully blind to the violent and genocidal history that those laws were formed in and bound to. A law is only as effective as the degrees of trust and good faith the people impacted by it have in it. Why would the Lakota place any degree of trust in a system that, for 200+ years, has consistently and inevitably warped and twisted itself to pursue it's own self-interest, regardless of whatever was on the books and almost blanket-terms came at the expense of their people? "The law" has unquestionably been a tool of oppression for centuries for these peoples. And this is not ancient history with no impact on contemporary life. People are alive today, or remember family members, who were directly and negatively impacted by manipulative, self-serving, and genocidal interpretations of "the law". You don't get to say "but they didn't follow the law!!!!!" and not understand following the law has been used explicitly as a tool of oppression against them for literally the entirety of history post-contact. To suggest otherwise is to betray an understanding of historical context that is either non-existent, broken and warped to serve particular political needs, or willfully dishonest. So yea you can sit there and act indignant and concerned about their lack of engagement with army corps all you want, and on some level completely devoid of any context, nuance, or understanding, you might be right. But you're loving wrong. They literally have no reason to trust a government that has put 200 years of history into proving that its word, its institutions, and its laws are all tools if subjugation and oppression to be used at their discretion as they deem fit. Stickarts fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Nov 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
Stickarts posted:I'm Canadian and while Treaty rights and education are one of my focuses I simply don't have enough grounding in American history to wade into this discussion to any great degree. However, if my understanding of American-Indigenous historical relations is "like Canada's but worse" is roughly correct just bear with me. Note that this isn't necessarily directed at you. Can I put this in the OP? I'm working on a revamp of it, you see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 13:34
|
|
|
Tias posted:Can I put this in the OP? I'm working on a revamp of it, you see. For what it's worth, of course. That Smithsonian link is pretty clutch and worthy of inclusion too, then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 13:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 07:41 |
|
|
That's been somewhat the point I'm trying to make. The last time the Standing Rock were asked to cooperate with the ACoE, they lost thousands of acres of farmland, flooded under a new lake.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2016 14:50
|
|