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Darkman Fanpage posted:If the West wanted to keep someone like Putin out of power maybe they shouldn't have thoroughly hosed Russia over following the fall of Soviet Union. Maybe they shouldn't have backed an idiot like Boris Yeltsin who sold off all the state industries to the wealthy. Maybe instead of gloating over a new world order they should have tried to help the Russian people more in their time of need. But hey, clearly the rise of Putin is the fault of the Russian people. Western countries didn't impose neoliberalism on Russia to screw the Russian people; they imposed neoliberalism on the entire world to screw with absolu-loving-tely everyone; including the citizens of said western countries. Putin is in power in Russia for the same reason Trump is the President-Elect of the USA.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:53
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Cat Mattress posted:Western countries didn't impose neoliberalism on Russia to screw the Russian people; they imposed neoliberalism on the entire world to screw with absolu-loving-tely everyone; including the citizens of said western countries. It is just in the case of Russia that the difference was so immediately stark and brutal, and included "geopolitical" humiliation. Russia in the 1990/early 2000s was very much Weimar 2.0.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:56
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rear end struggle posted:I support NATO for the same reason leftists supported the Entente. Once we defeat Putin we can actually get reform. Before that the threat of that despot to democracy is too great. So, Regime Change in Russia is an absolute prerequisite to any liberal reforms or progress in the US or in the world more broadly?
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Nov 29, 2016 17:01
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the german left irreconcilably split over supporting ww1 in 1914, and jean jaure was assasinated for his opposition to the military on the eve of the war. leftists did not universally support the entente, and indeed the correct position on one of the stupidest wars in history was to oppose it utterly and without exception.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:05
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It's cool how today, in TYOOL 2016, we have liberals insisting WW1 was a just war Liberals never change
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Nov 29, 2016 17:08
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icantfindaname posted:So, Regime Change in Russia is an absolute prerequisite to any liberal reforms or progress in the US or in the world more broadly? No, but reform is impossible under Russian occupation.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:09
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icantfindaname posted:So, Regime Change in Russia is an absolute prerequisite to any liberal reforms or progress in the US or in the world more broadly? Yeah, basically regime change in Russia isn't going to be happening until Putin kicks the bucket so you can forget about anything ever getting reformed or improved anywhere for a few decades. It isn't a transparent excuse at all. Unless Russia gets a place at the table they are going to constantly pulling poo poo until the only governments that are left are ones they trust or own. At this point, if anything it may be too late.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:10
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Volkerball posted:Even in this faction, you have a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance. With this one you get a lot of "The West shouldn't have intervened in Libya" type talking points rooted in talking over Libyans who say they are indebted to the West for helping them overcome Gaddafi's tyranny, and speaking about what's best for Syrians while simultaneously only recognizing the handful of Syrian people who are militarily active in jihadist groups. That's all handwaved away with usually an articles worth of background knowledge in my experience. All in all, it's just not a stable ideological platform, and it shows in the structure built on it. But I will say that I have infinitely more respect for people who are ideologically consistent in opposing imperialism rather than just picking a side, even if I think the analysis and the concept of "imperialism" used is a bit weak. The people who are reasonable about Hamas and Palestinian resistance in general, then turn around and disparage anyone who ever held a sign protesting against corruption in Syria as a terrorist. Who will tell you all about the consequences of US imperialism in the Middle East but can't seem to find any outrage when the bomb killing kids there has a Russian flag on it. Those people are the really toxic ones to the discourse. lmao dude Hillary lost you don't have to defend Libya anymore. I mean its insane to do it in the first place since the intervention there was even more cynical, nakedly imperialist, and comically disastrous than any theoretical actions in Syria would be, but there's no longer anything in it for you unless you somehow get off on extreme intellectual dishonesty. This is the same ideological backwater you people always end up in whenever the predictable consequences of your NATO cheerleading become apparent: oh whoops looks like the Libyans are suffering from an acute case of Tyranny poisoning! No one could have predicated that they would be constitutionally (racially) incapable of graciously accepting the gifts of Western warmongering. Oh well, better luck next time!
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Nov 29, 2016 17:10
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NikkolasKing posted:This reminds me of an article I was reading the other day Russia teaming up with the Saudis and the other Gulf nations would be a nightmare for the world economy. Think of a super-OPEC dictating oil prices. And I wonder what would happen if Putin demanded that Trump not expand the oil and gas industry in the U.S. and go with green energy, so he can sell us foreign oil.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:13
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icantfindaname posted:It's cool how today, in TYOOL 2016, we have liberals insisting WW1 was a just war WW1 was just as "just" as any other war. It was the West's defense against the degenerate Prussian militarism that would eventually culminate in WWII. For the East it was the Southern Slav's defense against a literal genocide enacted by the Austrians.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:15
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spotlessd posted:Okay but the idiots on this site who gather round the campfire and let Brown Moses tell them fairytales about White Helmets probably aren't in a great position to cast stones about who is unwittingly repeating propaganda, right? 
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Nov 29, 2016 17:19
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Young Freud posted:Russia teaming up with the Saudis and the other Gulf nations would be a nightmare for the world economy. Think of a super-OPEC dictating oil prices. The Saudis and the Russians hate each other. Trump's more powerful than Putin now, why the gently caress would he take orders from him? Trump turning against the oil and gas industry would be about the number one thing that would get Republicans to start thinking about replacing him with Pence too.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:19
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rear end struggle posted:WW1 was just as "just" as any other war. It was the West's defense against the degenerate Prussian militarism that would eventually culminate in WWII. For the East it was the Southern Slav's defense against a literal genocide enacted by the Austrians. It had as much to do with French revanchist nationalism being fed by British and American bankers as with German militarism
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Nov 29, 2016 17:31
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Young Freud posted:Russia teaming up with the Saudis and the other Gulf nations would be a nightmare for the world economy. Think of a super-OPEC dictating oil prices. It may happen to some extent (we will see in the next 48 hours) but any cooperation would be limited. Trump isn't touching the US oil and gas industry and ultimately Putin isn't that interested in it since so much of American protection steered toward domestic markets. It very well may be the Saudis will have to break down and cut their supply further if only to re-balance their enormous deficit.
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Nov 29, 2016 17:50
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https://twitter.com/hikmetdurgun/status/803641567953174529 Apparently IS captured two Turkish soldiers around al-Bab? Really hoping this isn't true...
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Nov 29, 2016 17:58
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Redmark posted:https://twitter.com/hikmetdurgun/status/803641567953174529 Officially they'll be captured by PKK gulenists.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:09
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spotlessd posted:lmao dude Hillary lost you don't have to defend Libya anymore. I mean its insane to do it in the first place since the intervention there was even more cynical, nakedly imperialist, and comically disastrous than any theoretical actions in Syria would be, but there's no longer anything in it for you unless you somehow get off on extreme intellectual dishonesty. This is the same ideological backwater you people always end up in whenever the predictable consequences of your NATO cheerleading become apparent: oh whoops looks like the Libyans are suffering from an acute case of Tyranny poisoning! No one could have predicated that they would be constitutionally (racially) incapable of graciously accepting the gifts of Western warmongering. Oh well, better luck next time! Libyans overwhelmingly supported intervention prior to it, and US favorability in Libya skyrocketed after it. And the sentiment continues today, although people are rightly disappointed in the US strategy during the not dropping bombs phase of the operation. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...d-a7307326.html How ironic of you to make a white man's burden reference while defending Libyans from the most bloodthirsty imperialist warhawk neocons of all: Libyans.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:20
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Redmark posted:https://twitter.com/hikmetdurgun/status/803641567953174529 Good riddance. gently caress the Ottomans. Volkerball posted:Charles Davis put it far more eloquently than I ever could. Notice how these so-called left activists never mention any kind of proletarian basis, instead fighting for the bourgeois fig of 'liberal democracy' so that they can sell off the whole country to the highest bidder if they win.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:21
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Panzeh posted:Good riddance. gently caress the Ottomans. Mainly I think an HD execution video is not what we need right now. Aside from the obvious humanitarian reason, who knows what Erdogan would do after that?
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Nov 29, 2016 18:23
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Ardennes posted:It may happen to some extent (we will see in the next 48 hours) but any cooperation would be limited. Trump isn't touching the US oil and gas industry and ultimately Putin isn't that interested in it since so much of American protection steered toward domestic markets. What happens in the next 48 hours?
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Nov 29, 2016 18:27
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Are there any Saudi posters in this thread? It would be interesting to see their opinions on how godawful Saudi Arabia has been with Yemen. Ya know, if there any insane Saudi posters . Just curious
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Nov 29, 2016 18:33
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a cat youtube posted:Are there any Saudi posters in this thread? It would be interesting to see their opinions on how godawful Saudi Arabia has been with Yemen. Ya know, if there any insane Saudi posters . Just curious They can't safely talk about it, which makes it frustrating to have a conversation with them about the region. Everyone's a fascist killer but the benevolent Saudi government, which might imprison them for saying the wrong thing. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 18:34
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Redmark posted:Mainly I think an HD execution video is not what we need right now. Aside from the obvious humanitarian reason, who knows what Erdogan would do after that? I don't think Sultan Erdy really needs more pretext to kill Kurds
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Nov 29, 2016 18:35
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Ardennes posted:It may happen to some extent (we will see in the next 48 hours) but any cooperation would be limited. Trump isn't touching the US oil and gas industry and ultimately Putin isn't that interested in it since so much of American protection steered toward domestic markets. If Trump is truly isolationist, it will have some effect on the Saudis, like cutting foreign aid and the like. There's a comment that I remember from during the election on why we provide military aid to Saudi Arabia is largely because it gives us a method of control. The alternative is Saudi Arabia buying from China or Russia and letting them have the inside on Saudi policy, and that's what I think might happen, even with Russia's close relations with Iran.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:44
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a cat youtube posted:Are there any Saudi posters in this thread? It would be interesting to see their opinions on how godawful Saudi Arabia has been with Yemen. Ya know, if there any insane Saudi posters . Just curious Al Saqr, who is stuck in a bind Sinteres points out as adroitly as one can.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:46
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"drat those kurds for not sacrificing themselves for groups that hate them and would turn on them the second assad was gone...what you expect me to criticize my own government- that would be dangerous! "
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Nov 29, 2016 18:58
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Volkerball posted:Libyans overwhelmingly supported intervention prior to it, and US favorability in Libya skyrocketed after it. And the sentiment continues today, although people are rightly disappointed in the US strategy during the not dropping bombs phase of the operation. Ex-pat mobster declares: "Castro is a bad guy and he has to go." You're embarrassing yourself. You aren't even defending the intervention, you're defending the moronic pipe dream of a hired idiot who by her own account was safely clear of this blessed intervention, which probably explains how she managed to repeat a number of discredited myths about the conflict while unbelievably asserting a "voice of the people" rhetorical frame. To be honest she makes a much stronger case for Gaddafi's repression than U.S. intervention.
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Nov 29, 2016 19:24
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spotlessd posted:Ex-pat mobster declares: "Castro is a bad guy and he has to go." Sarkozy?
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Nov 29, 2016 19:54
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Count Roland posted:What happens in the next 48 hours? A big OPEC meeting in Vienna, some cuts have been proposed but we still have to see if there is any follow-through.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:06
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Oil's down today because people are pretty skeptical that cuts will be forthcoming.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:16
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steinrokkan posted:At this point it's probably best to allow the side most capable of winning to wrap things up. Even if it means Assad - no matter what he is going to do *10 years later* Wha..? Why is Syria going through another civil war? That's weird, I thought they settled all those issues in the last one when everyone agreed to get massacred by a genocidal tyrant for all eternity.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:52
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a cat youtube posted:Are there any Saudi posters in this thread? It would be interesting to see their opinions on how godawful Saudi Arabia has been with Yemen. They like keeping their fingernails. Don't expect to hear from them. In SA they can and will throw you into a dungeon for talking smack, even online.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:54
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Sergg posted:*10 years later* Sorry we're not all gung-ho about interventionism, Sergg. Guess you could say the West is all interventioned out..
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Nov 29, 2016 21:56
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Sergg posted:*10 years later* Hrm yase, because deposing Assad would just end the civil war and there would be a lovely peace as jihadist militias supported by the Gulf States attempt to massacre and crush Alawites, Shia, Kurds, and other ethnic and religious minorities in Syria
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Nov 29, 2016 22:01
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One more three letter organization for the pile: SNR, Syrian National Resistance (or Syrian Patriotic Resistance). This is the name of the new hybrid SAA/SDF faction near Al Bab, and they kicked things off with a pretty strongly-worded statement: https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/803398530949906432 https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/5ffwl5/inaugural_statement_from_snr_syrian_national/ Helpful background info on the group: bjam83 posted:The official line seems to be that it is made up of the Kafr Saghir Martyrs Brigade (Kafr Saghir is the region jointly controlled between Efrin SDF and SAA), which is a militia loyal to both the SDF and SAA. -The wording pulls from the playbooks of both the SDF (free, democratic) and SAA (patriotic, united). -Very anti-Turkey/anti-Ottoman in tone, even by SDF standards -Hitler name drop, but it's in reference to the Ottoman genocides so it doesn't feel out of place -Jarablus to Iskandarun. Iskandarun is in Hatay province, aka that little chunk of Turkey that Syria wants back. -The SNR has a flag:  It looks very similar to the SDF's flag, complete with Hatay being part of Syria. I guess this simplifies the race to Al Bab a little. Saladin Rising fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 22:01
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I support Syria's aspiration to reclaim Hatay in the interest of pretty borders.
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Nov 29, 2016 22:05
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Volkerball posted:Libyans overwhelmingly supported intervention prior to it, and US favorability in Libya skyrocketed after it. And the sentiment continues today, although people are rightly disappointed in the US strategy during the not dropping bombs phase of the operation. Sure are a whole load of anecdotes and no statistics in your article backing that up.
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Nov 29, 2016 22:32
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Saladin Rising posted:One more three letter organization for the pile: SNR, Syrian National Resistance (or Syrian Patriotic Resistance). This is the name of the new hybrid SAA/SDF faction near Al Bab, and they kicked things off with a pretty strongly-worded statement: Any idea what this means in the long run? I'm wondering if the Russians convinced the regime to give the SDF the federalism they wanted.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:27
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a cat youtube posted:Are there any Saudi posters in this thread? It would be interesting to see their opinions on how godawful Saudi Arabia has been with Yemen. Ya know, if there any insane Saudi posters . Just curious Saudi Arabias Yemen intervention is mostly comparable with any number of US "peace keeping" operations and arguably more justified.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:35
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An idiot, or a troll? Does it even matter?
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