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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Torturing someone doesn't end in your entire family and everyone else you know being annihilated in nuclear hellfire, a subtle difference I hope you're right. Really that's all I can end up saying. E: I mean I assume some war dealing with Syria and ISIS is coming, and there will definitely be something that can be amped up to be a terror attack. It's definitely not outside the realm of possibility. foobardog fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 00:42
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Fojar38 posted:The President is supposed to be able to quickly and efficiently launch a nuclear strike at a particular alert level. Not literally at any time for any reason. Trump would have to justify putting America's forces on the highest alert and readying its nuclear arsenal to everyone and that isn't happening unless there really is cause for it. Like a Cuban Missile Crisis tier event and the geopolitical circumstances for one simply don't exist. Fojar38 posted:Subs and aircraft need to be appropriately positioned and fueled, missiles need to be appropriately fueled and prepared, etc. That takes time. The whole point of alert levels is to do these things beforehand so that when the order comes it can be followed immediately. So, for Trump to be able to launch "in as little as 3 minutes" he'd need to already be at maximum readiness and getting to that stage takes a lot lot lot lot longer than 3 minutes and provides plenty of time for the 25th to be invoked. I don't know where you get the idea that the defcon level is somehow tied to the ability to launch nukes, but it's not. This is primarily because the president might have to launch immediate retaliatory strikes. Not every silo is ready all the time, but some is ready all the time. In case of a first strike attack, they're not going to have to wait around for people to get their fingers out of their asses. This it's called hair-trigger alert (look it up).
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Nov 30, 2016 00:47
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Fojar, what you're talking about might be applicable fifty years ago but it's not now. Modern nuclear missiles do not require fueling or any other form of time intensive preparation by design. The Minuteman series of missiles got their name from the idea that they'd be ready to go in a metaphorical if not a literal minute. Trident missiles are the same and have range comparable to an ICBM so there is no need for submarines to patrol very close to their targets or sneak past enemy submarines to launch. The president may not be able to launch every nuclear weapon at a moment's notice but he's perfectly capable of launching enough to wipe out every major city in Iran for example.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:50
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foobardog posted:I'm 100% certain we'd not be here today if some 99 luftballons thing actually had happened. Brave men like Stanislav Petrov and Vasili Arkhipov prove otherwise. Now, if they had been Americans? Who knows.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:54
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Fojar regularly talks military type stuff with no knowledge of what he's talking about but what he reads open source.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:55
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Shbobdb posted:Brave men like Stanislav Petrov and Vasili Arkhipov prove otherwise. Yeah, I referenced Petrov earlier. I think Lt. Stanley Peter would have gotten told off by his superior when he asked, and then glumly drew up the alert.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:56
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Boon posted:Fojar regularly talks military type stuff with no knowledge of what he's talking about but what he reads open source. Okay gang, you're all going to die in nuclear hellfire, nothing can stop the Trumpocolypse, better start digging your Fallout hole
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Nov 30, 2016 00:57
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Fojar38 posted:Okay gang, you're all going to die in nuclear hellfire, nothing can stop the Trumpocolypse, better start digging your Fallout hole We're not going to die but the system isn't designed around preventing anyone else from dying.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:00
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foobardog posted:Yeah, I referenced Petrov earlier. I think Lt. Stanley Peter would have gotten told off by his superior when he asked, and then glumly drew up the alert. Eh, the US had a similar incident in 1979 that went all the way up the Chain of Command to the National Security Advisor, but they double checked and figured out it was nothing.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:00
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Shbobdb posted:Brave men like Stanislav Petrov and Vasili Arkhipov prove otherwise. http://thebulletin.org/okinawa-missiles-october8826 tl;dr: Supposedly (big grain of salt there) Okinawa received an order in error to launch their nuclear missiles during the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:01
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Fojar38 posted:Okay gang, you're all going to die in nuclear hellfire, nothing can stop the Trumpocolypse, better start digging your Fallout hole Don't get upset because you get called out (again) for bullshitting about this constantly. Like do you even have any ties to the military or do you just like reading Tom Clancy and history - it's cool if you do but that doesn't make you an expert in this.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:01
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Fojar38 posted:Okay gang, you're all going to die in nuclear hellfire, nothing can stop the Trumpocolypse, better start digging your Fallout hole I don't think anyone really believes that, but what you're saying here doesn't make any logical sense. What good is the nuclear arsenal if it takes hours to launch from a low state of readiness? How is that at all useful in the event of a surprise first strike? If we're talking about the cold war, then you're looking at maybe 30 minutes of flight for missiles launched for Russia and probably not even half that for submarine launched missiles. If the system isn't designed to go from order to execution in an extremely short period of time then it serves no purpose at all. You don't have to have detailed knowledge about the systems in question to understand how silly what you're saying actually is.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:01
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Boon posted:Don't get upset because you get called out (again) for bullshitting about this constantly. Like do you even have any ties to the military? None, but at this point I'm not sure it matters since everyone here is so determined to believe that nukes are gonna fly it doesn't matter who says what. Guess I'll stop trying to soothe people's obvious crippling anxiety.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:03
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my city's newspaper has the best cartoonist tbh
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Nov 30, 2016 01:03
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Paradoxish posted:If the system isn't designed to go from order to execution in an extremely short period of time then it serves no purpose at all. Missiles and subs can launch almost immediately, the bomber part of the triad would require some absurd means in order to get on the same page; B-52s would have to already be fueled and on the runway waiting for cart starts or on CHROME DOME style continual airborne alerts. Mind you, the reason why we stopped CHROME DOME is because we almost nuked Greenland when we crashed B-52s.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:06
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HannibalBarca posted:Eh, the US had a similar incident in 1979 that went all the way up the Chain of Command to the National Security Advisor, but they double checked and figured out it was nothing. Party Plane Jones posted:http://thebulletin.org/okinawa-missiles-october8826 I'll look later, but honestly, that's good to hear. I don't like depending on that, but here we are. 
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Nov 30, 2016 01:07
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Fojar38 posted:None, but at this point I'm not sure it matters since everyone here is so determined to believe that nukes are gonna fly it doesn't matter who says what. Guess I'll stop trying to soothe people's obvious crippling anxiety. Yeah, nukes aren't going to fly. People in here like to Arzy and make wild leaps of logic. Sidenote: this thread has been near intolerable since the primaries and only gotten worse. There was a time when there were at least actual educational things posted. Now it's just tweets and hyperbole.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:08
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Boon posted:Yeah, nukes aren't going to fly. People in here like to Arzy and make wild leaps of logic. 
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Nov 30, 2016 01:09
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Boon posted:Yeah, nukes aren't going to fly. People in here like to Arzy and make wild leaps of logic. I uh... I feel like maybe Arzy should be retired as a verb considering our present circumstances.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:10
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Boon posted:Now it's just tweets and hyperbole. Is this thread not a mirror of current political speech? If it can't be written in 140 characters why bother
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Nov 30, 2016 01:09
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Boon posted:Yeah, nukes aren't going to fly. People in here like to Arzy and make wild leaps of logic. This thread is just mirroring America's ongoing nervous breakdown.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:10
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once norad was primed to launch because their radar detected a huge number of missiles coming from russia over sweden. turns out it was the moon rising
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Nov 30, 2016 01:10
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FlamingLiberal posted:Steven Mnuchin is the new Treasury Secretary nominee. He's a Goldman Sachs guy who also worked with hedge funds and has never held a government job. He also funded Entourage and Suicide Squad, so we're talking about a real monster here.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:Steven Mnuchin is the new Treasury Secretary nominee. He's a Goldman Sachs guy who also worked with hedge funds and has never held a government job. Here's a link, if anyone's interested. Sure is great that we elected an outsider candidate who promised to take on those Wall Street hedge fund guys.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:13
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alpha_destroy posted:I uh... I feel like maybe Arzy should be retired as a verb considering our present circumstances. POST A MAP LOL ABUELA
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Nov 30, 2016 01:16
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Boon posted:Yeah, nukes aren't going to fly. People in here like to Arzy and make wild leaps of logic. educational things like a a button pusher on a boat or whatever pretending they have knowledge of the secret inner workings of us military policy?
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Nov 30, 2016 01:18
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Short Version of American Healthcare Policy is: Also will go back to screwing over self-employed people with anything less than a perfect health record unless their state has decent coverage for that. But worse than before because there's no guarantee that state option is around anymore since ACA took over that niche.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:19
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joeburz posted:educational things like a a button pusher on a boat or whatever pretending they have knowledge of the secret inner workings of us military policy? Not really sure who you're referring to but sure.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:21
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Ugh, apparently Sheriff David Clarke is still in the running for Homeland Security. Ugh, Munchkin is going to be in charge of Treasury. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 01:29
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Khisanth Magus posted:I believe his stated position during the campaign in regards to the middle east was "nuke em till they glow". He also asked an interview "Somebody hits us within ISISyou wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?" No, no sane person would.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:33
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DaveWoo posted:Here's a link, if anyone's interested. the one digit percent of people who voted trump because nihilism or because they really didn't like hillary (instead of the significantly more ethical choice of "not voting") are making GBS threads their pants though
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Nov 30, 2016 01:34
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HannibalBarca posted:my city's newspaper has the best cartoonist tbh
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Nov 30, 2016 01:38
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Samurai Sanders posted:Every cartoon like this needs to be immediately followed by "and it will work". "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and that's more than sufficient."
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Nov 30, 2016 01:39
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I don't know what it says about me that I find Mnuchin to be one of the least terrifying appointees so far
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Nov 30, 2016 01:41
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Did CelestialScribe ever come back to gloat?
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Nov 30, 2016 01:42
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HorseRenoir posted:I don't know what it says about me that I find Mnuchin to be one of the least terrifying appointees so far Chao and Mnuchin are basically fine, DeVos is your standard ideological pick that horrifies liberals and makes conservatives shrug, and Sessions and Price are walking nightmares.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:43
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Except for every other thinking human in the chain The US military, a true bastion of free-thinking individuals. FlamingLiberal posted:Steven Mnuchin is the new Treasury Secretary nominee. He's a Goldman Sachs guy who also worked with hedge funds and has never held a government job. So what's the word from the Trumpstaffel about how this isn't a betrayal and Trump's still totally gonna Drain The Swamp in January? foobardog posted:I wouldn't think American soldiers would openly engage in torture... I'm not sure how you could think that unless you never learned about Vietnam when growing up. Waterboarding doesn't surprise me. Even in Afghanistan we had soldiers murdering locals and harvesting body parts as trophies and the US government still barely gave a poo poo when it was international news. I'll give you a guess at how severe (or not) the punishments were for those involved.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:44
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HorseRenoir posted:I don't know what it says about me that I find Mnuchin to be one of the least terrifying appointees so far Yeah say good bye to any regulations. It's going to be terrible. The Republican's are totally going after Dodd-Frank. I won't be surprised if the Consumer Protection Agency is eliminated and then they burn down the building along with salting the earth it stood on.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:45
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Re: nuke chat and also everything just going to poo poo with nobody standing up and saying, "Well actually I'm legally obliged to stop this and you" chat: Let's not forget how powerful being able to sidestep direct responsibility can be; people constantly do terrible things and allow terrible things to happen specifically because the structure of the bureaucracy or corporation allows them to be in a position where it isn't actually their responsibility. 'It's just dreadful and it shouldn't have happened, but I really had nothing whatsoever to do with it.'
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Nov 30, 2016 01:54
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Hollismason posted:Yeah say good bye to any regulations. It's going to be terrible. That was gonna happen no matter what Republican got elected, though. It's not a uniquely horrible thing about the Trump cabinet.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:54
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