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Concerned Citizen posted:i still think obama is actually a secret atheist and nothing can convince me otherwise Lol Obama loves church and religion. Have you ever seen this dude pray or sing amazing grace?
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Dec 1, 2016 19:33
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Lol Obama loves church and religion. Have you ever seen this dude pray or sing amazing grace? idk didn't he not go to church for basically his entire presidency? makes you think.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:34
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WarMECH posted:I vote by mail in Florida and aint no place more private to fill out my ballot than my kitchen table. I think it is important to consider corner cases. For example one this that several polls showed this season is that couples were often wrong about who their spouse was voting for. While 45 percent of married women said they were voting for Hillary Clinton, only 33 percent of married men responded that their wives would be casting their ballot for the Democratic nominee. Women were a bit more accurate when it came to guessing their spouse's preference, but there was still a gap: While 49 percent of married men said they'd be casting their ballot for Donald Trump, only 41 percent of married women said their spouse was supporting the GOP candidate. You don't even need an abusive relationship or something. You just need somebody to feel pressure to vote with their spouse because its easier, or because they don't want to get in to an argument about who they are voting for. I'm sure you could find similar studies about peer groups for younger people who's friends might want to all fill out ballots together, or whatever. And while I'm sure it isn't widespread, there definitely are abusive relationships where a wife or girlfriend could be forced to show who they voted for, or an employer could reward or outright demand a certain vote. I mean, there's a reason that companies want people to have to publicly support unionization vs. holding a private vote. You have to consider the absolute worst case for stuff like that and those corner cases remind you why the secret ballot is there to begin with. I really think that is one of the single most important parts of how democracy works in our country. Thoguh has issued a correction as of 19:38 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 19:35
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It's the same reason voter ID laws don't seem like a big deal until you consider that for people at the margins or who live different lives than you getting an ID can be a very tough or outright impossible task.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:36
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Concerned Citizen posted:idk didn't he not go to church for basically his entire presidency? makes you think. Obama went to church every week dude idk what the gently caress you're talking about
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Dec 1, 2016 19:37
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Serf posted:For real though, Sanders needs to spend some of his popularity talking up younger politicians who align with his views. They gotta exist out there, and as the most prominent voice in the Democrats right now, Sanders should be getting their names and faces out there so we can start building a real bench of progressives that will take up the cause when he's gone. I mean, he kinda did. Zephyr Teachout, Paul Clements, and Tim Canova were some of the big names on his downticket squad.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:37
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Mr. Jive posted:I mean, he kinda did. Zephyr Teachout, Paul Clements, and Tim Canova were some of the big names on his downticket squad. Zephyr Teachout? That's a crazy name
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Dec 1, 2016 19:38
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Mr. Jive posted:I mean, he kinda did. Zephyr Teachout, Paul Clements, and Tim Canova were some of the big names on his downticket squad. I've heard one of those names, and I've only heard of Tim Canova because he thought "lets start a war with Iran" was the ticket to unseating a multi-decade incumbent.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:39
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tim casanova
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Dec 1, 2016 19:40
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Thoguh posted:I think it is important to consider corner cases. For example one this that several polls showed this season is that couples were often wrong about who their spouse was voting for.  It can't be overstated how critical your right to vote secretly is. It's non-negotiable. I agree with your last sentence emphatically. It's sacred. The right to vote under coercion or for a price is not the right to vote. We need the right to vote.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:42
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Thoguh posted:Because I think filling out your ballot in private is extremely important and anything that limits that is bad. It really, really doesn't, basically all of the objections to vote by mail have proved illusory in practice. It's really not difficult to find a quiet 15 minutes to do it privately, and it's extremely nice to be able to have the option to research things you're unsure about as you fill out the ballot at your leisure. I mean really, what scenario is more common- that you're in a controlling relationship with a violent political extremist who insists you fill out your ballot form in front of them, or that your job circumstances/health makes the prospect of standing in line outside for hours on a random weekday so impossible/unpleasant that you don't end up voting at all? There are better ways to do in-person voting of course, but why are you judging vote-by-mail by extremely improbable worst case scenarios while ignoring all of the very real indignities and problems that come with running traditional polling stations? LGD has issued a correction as of 19:47 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 19:43
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Fox affiliates are actually relatively good from what I can tell. I'm guessing they're far enough removed from the corporate nucleus that they can slip poo poo under the radar. Nothing too controversial, obviously, but stuff worth reporting that Fox News would ignore or even celebrate.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:43
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/804392625084174337
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Dec 1, 2016 19:43
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MizPiz posted:Fox affiliates are actually relatively good from what I can tell. I'm guessing they're far enough removed from the corporate nucleus that they can slip poo poo under the radar. fox affiliates are fine, fox news isn't i used to watch fox 5 in the morning and even being in the same city as fox news didn't make them bad
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Dec 1, 2016 19:45
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here's the trump response: i didnt give them a tax break, they're not leaving the country, i saved 1000 jobs. cut print, sucks to be you benie ol man your truth doesnt mean poo poo
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Dec 1, 2016 19:46
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Thoguh posted:I think it is important to consider corner cases. For example one this that several polls showed this season is that couples were often wrong about who their spouse was voting for. But the secret in-person ballot still exists (with weeks of early voting no less!), so what's wrong with mail-in ballots? Mail-in ballots aren't mandatory, just a nice option for some of us who don't want to wait in line, or spend more time reviewing the ridiculous amendments they attach in this stupid state every election.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:45
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this is a nifty graphic, bernie must have picked up some talented interns
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Dec 1, 2016 19:47
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logikv9 posted:fox affiliates are fine, fox news isn't i used to drink across the street from the fox five studios in manhattan, good bar, look it up
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Dec 1, 2016 19:48
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Fullhouse posted:this is a nifty graphic, bernie must have picked up some talented interns When you're the most popular politician in the country, you get only the most talented free-or-cheap labor.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:50
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Ellison just posted what I think is a fantastic response to the Nation of Islam stuff: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/804385495509794816
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Dec 1, 2016 19:51
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama went to church every week dude idk what the gently caress you're talking about old but: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/29/us/as-the-obamas-celebrate-christmas-rituals-of-faith-stay-on-the-sidelines.html quote:But the one thing the president and his family did not do — something they have rarely done since he entered the White House — was attend Christmas church services.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:51
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Zephyr Teachout? That's a crazy name She staged a primary challenge to Andrew Cuomo from the left in 2014 and did remarkably well, pulling over a third of the total primary vote as I recall against a sitting governor (albeit one with precious few friends within the NY Democratic Party). Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama went to church every week dude idk what the gently caress you're talking about I think he even
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Dec 1, 2016 19:52
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they used to have big bowls of pretzels and goldfish crackers on top of the bar...... good bar
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Dec 1, 2016 19:52
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MizPiz posted:Fox affiliates are actually relatively good from what I can tell. I'm guessing they're far enough removed from the corporate nucleus that they can slip poo poo under the radar. Fox affiliate stations aren't actually owned by Fox, they're independent but carry fox shows and use their branding.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:52
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Fullhouse posted:this is a nifty graphic, bernie must have picked up some talented interns idgi that graphic takes longer to read than I, the imagined versions of human people the DNC vampires think we must be like, have. Can you please phrase this in 3 emoji or less, or perhaps have Lena Dunham, or, preferably, Sarah Silverman or Chelsea Pretty, rap to me on the topic. Thanks in advance
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Dec 1, 2016 19:52
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Article from Freddie on cultural appropriation: http://fredrikdeboer.com/2016/12/01/no-one-has-the-slightest-idea-what-is-and-isnt-cultural-appropriation/
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Dec 1, 2016 19:53
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docbeard posted:Ellison just posted what I think is a fantastic response to the Nation of Islam stuff: https://twitter.com/ChupacabraDel/status/804386626973663233 
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Dec 1, 2016 19:54
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CNN told me it was illegal for me to possess Wikileaks information and I should rely on the media to go through it for me and tell me how to feel about it and that put my mind at ease https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DcATG9Qy_A
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Dec 1, 2016 19:56
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Venom Snake posted:Article from Freddie on cultural appropriation: http://fredrikdeboer.com/2016/12/01/no-one-has-the-slightest-idea-what-is-and-isnt-cultural-appropriation/ (holds envelope to giant comedy turban) im guessing that he's going to say that cultural appropriation is ok/doesnt exist, and in fact people who are offended or insulted by cultural appropriations are merely prosecuting class prejudices. how did i do????
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Dec 1, 2016 19:57
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LGD posted:It really, really doesn't, basically all of the objections to vote by mail have proved illusory in practice. It's really not difficult to find a quiet 15 minutes to do it privately, and it's extremely nice to be able to have the option to research things you're unsure about as you fill out the ballot at your leisure. I mean really, what scenario is more common- that you're in a controlling relationship with a violent political extremist who insists you fill out your ballot form in front of them, or that your job circumstances/health makes the prospect of standing in line outside for hours on a random weekday so impossible/unpleasant that you don't end up voting at all? There are better ways to do in-person voting of course, but why are you judging vote-by-mail by extremely improbable worst case scenarios while ignoring all of the very real indignities and problems that come with running traditional polling stations? A big part of my point is that it isn't just abusive relationships or other extreme things that can influence a vote. As that poll I linked to showed, in just this election there were a large percentage of couple's that incorrectly guessed who their spouse was going to vote for. I highly doubt all of those were abusive relationships. Some people just don't want to have difficult conversations like that and that's okay. Their vote still should count. But to go back to the voter ID thing. When it comes to this kind of thing I think it is important not to consider the average case. You have to consider the impact for the worst case. Thoguh has issued a correction as of 20:00 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 19:57
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speaking of CNN, https://twitter.com/thehill/status/804381814114676736 lol
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Dec 1, 2016 19:59
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Concerned Citizen posted:old but: Fair enough. Dude went to church though. He's religious, not an atheist.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:01
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 Hail Bernie Bird Thing.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:01
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logikv9 posted:fox affiliates are fine, fox news isn't I specifically said the actual reporting I've seen from Fox has probably been thanks to their affiliates, so I guess we actually... agree? I have not seen similar things from CNN affiliates but perhaps that's just luck, but it just feels like CNN worthless from top to bottom while Fox is like a propaganda firm that occasionally does real news via their affiliates.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:02
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Fair enough. Dude went to church though. He's religious, not an atheist. i don't really think obama is an atheist, it was a joke
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Dec 1, 2016 20:02
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docbeard posted:Ellison just posted what I think is a fantastic response to the Nation of Islam stuff: This is good.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:06
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And to add instead of edit, I firmly believe that "Because gently caress you, that's why" is a perfectly acceptable response to anyone who wants to know why you voted for someone or something. And that's not something anyone should be in a position to have to say to their siblings/spouse/friends/boss/person at the table next to them at starbucks/whatever if they don't feel like justifying their vote.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:07
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HorseRenoir posted:speaking of CNN, scoop if true
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Dec 1, 2016 20:08
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Do tell, where do you think the future of the party is? Is it Chelsea Clinton? aaaaAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
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Dec 1, 2016 20:09
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Thoguh posted:A big part of my point is that it isn't just abusive relationships or other extreme things that can influence a vote. As that poll I linked to showed, in just this election there were a large percentage of couple's that incorrectly guessed who their spouse was going to vote for. I highly doubt all of those were abusive relationships. Some people just don't want to have difficult conversations like that and that's okay. Their vote still should count. But you're assuming that vote-by-mail means "everyone shows off their ballots" and that there is additional pressure to vote the same way your spouse does to avoid conflict. People don't tend to actually show off their ballots, and lying about/not discussing who you plan to vote for operates in exactly the same way with vote-by-mail that it does with a traditional ballot. I live in a state that has universal vote-by-mail and I genuinely don't think anyone has any more idea about what their spouses voted for than they do in any other state. And poo poo, it's not even like the worst case scenarios are any different here- why isn't my ultra-controlling spouse, employer, or politically active friends group simply asking for/having an expectation of sharing cell-phone pictures of my in-person ballot? And if you're genuinely concerned about the worst case effects of things like voter ID why are you choosing to ignore the very, very real worst-case disenfranchisement that single-day, mandatory in-person voting creates every single election cycle?
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Dec 1, 2016 20:10
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