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It all boils down to Highwang being bad at video games.
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Dec 4, 2016 17:14
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Hey, remember hindsight is 20/20. You should still mock Highwang, but remember that.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:24
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I can only imagine just how bad it is going to get when we hit Champion dungeons. On the plus side though that gives everyone a chance to join this doomed expedition.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:26
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Halser posted:The Wounding Helmet has a pretty hefty decrease in move skill chance. Trinkets can be swapped or removed during play.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:03
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Halser posted:Hey, remember hindsight is 20/20. Listen. I'm the most bad at video games here, buddy.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:54
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Halser posted:Hey, remember hindsight is 20/20. Those of us privileged enough to do so, should also remember how absolutely poo poo we were at this game the first time we played it and did not have the wealth of knowledge and strategies available that we do now. RIP Adventurers #1 through #18. I wasn't even trying to get you killed.  Well, except those four near the end. Turns out, there can be no achievement without madness. 
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Dec 4, 2016 22:17
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I played through early access and I still have a little pile of dead adventurers in the graveyard.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:35
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Wilbur got two of mine in the same boss fight, with the same squeal. Some pig!
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Dec 4, 2016 22:54
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I imagine being accused to death looks a lot like in Phoenix Wright when you get to a cornered segment and let fly a bunch of evidence, since for some reason in Japanifornia it causes a visceral physical reaction like getting struck.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:56
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Any advice for lowering the mortality rate for Champion level missions?
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Dec 4, 2016 23:11
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Hunt11 posted:Any advice for lowering the mortality rate for Champion level missions? What keeps killing your people? Under what circumstances do they die? Here's a basic rundown, at least: Learn how to get the most out of the action economy, stun-wise, damage-wise and heal-wise (i.e. don't 'waste' turns on sub-par actions, always aim to be moving towards killing something, or saving someone from getting hurt). Stun in particular is really, really good and you should be using it all the time. On the right enemies, a Push or a Pull can be as good as a Stun. Making good party/skill combinations that can deal with the enemies in the dungeon you're going to is going to help a lot. Use trinkets that play to your adventurers' strengths. Remember that killing an enemy is almost always better than wounding two, although you want to get started with some enemies before others, stress dealers in particular. But most important of all... don't be overconfident. If you're losing people it's probably because you're not choosing to retreat fast enough, for whatever reason. If you're hard up for cash and feel you can't retreat, fire some dudes and hire some dudes and go for something safer than the Champion runs; unless you have a dream team, they can be hard to grind out money in.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:46
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I have made some mistakes which have not helped (healer head combined with vestal battle scroll is a horrible combination) for the most part it feels as though I am pushing my heroes just too hard. As in I will see a battle and it is almost over but my party is looking worse for wear and instead of just cutting my losses I will try to damage race the enemy down and hope that their luck breaks sooner then mine does. Most of the deaths are coming from boss battles so there is a certain amount of inevitability with those deaths. On the flip side I have killed almost every boss who really fucks with squad order so that should help a lot. Money has been a concern but I have been using lower level heroes to go farm that and will only go for the hardest dungeons if there is a boss or a good trinket on the line.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:21
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Hunt11 posted:Any advice for lowering the mortality rate for Champion level missions? That's kind of the thing, isn't it?  Short answer: spend about twice as long in the village prepping as you're used to. Champion is calibrated such that you're only going to be likely to succeed at something if you're above par in some way, like with quirks or trinkets. You not only need good team composition, but your heroes need to individually be strong too. Make sure their weapon or armor (depending on role, hellions obviously go weapon first) is maxed out and get the other as gold allows. Speaking of gold, hopefully you locked in quirks when your hero was lower-level and it was cheaper, or be prepared to grab some antiquarians for a cash run or two! Long answer: OK, by now we probably all know that DD encounters go 1 of 5 ways: * A team of all melee bruisers (swordfish, dogs, mushrooms + gladiators), * A tank or 2 and back-rank snipers (skeleton teams do this a lot, plus the "mixed shroom" teams in Weald), * A tank and back-rank stressors (very common), * A team of all of the above (like the 3 brigands or the skeletons with a courtier and arbalest), * A breather fight with fewer than the normal number of enemies or things like maggots. Sometimes these aren't obvious: gargoyles are actually breather monsters, but they look pretty tough. You have to be able to handle all of them efficiently. If you're bad at clearing the back ranks, you'll get too much stress. If you can't manage focus fire, you'll spend too much time healing and have to hope for a breather fight to catch back up. And some of those teams have location-specific mix-ups: crabs in the Cove can do massive DoT, and the giants can do massive damage, unlike other "tanks." The Cove also has the shieldfish, so tanks in the matchups there are about twice as common. Now, how you go about that is up to you. My brother prefers to deal with back ranks with a mark team, to debuff dodge and use the extra damage to get faster kills. So he uses arbalesters, houndmasters, etc. a lot more than I do. So let's start there: if you're using a dogman, you can put him in rank 2 and have an above-par* stun (nigh-guaranteed if you spend a trinket on it) as well as a mark. With that mark ability, that opens up bounty hunter (normally you won't use him unless you have someone in support who can mark too), who is a damage-dealer who also has an above-par stun. So that's 2 slots and most roles covered: you can stun tanks, mark + kill either rank (depending on who marks and who attacks) and do "primary" (that is, buffed or un-penalized) damage flexibly. What does that leave? We need a healer, and we could use a tank (who has to be rank 1, which means no abominations). We want our healer to be in the back, so that means healbot vestal or occultist, the latter who can also mark. * "Above-par" meaning it has a higher base rate, in this case 125% vs. 100% on things like crusaders' stunning blow. Above-par moves probably don't need to be further boosted with trinkets unless you're going after enemies resistant to them, which means you can equip trinkets to boost other things. So we end up with (rank 1 to 4) Bounty Hunter / Houndmaster / Occultist / Vestal. Having an average-HP/dodge frontliner means we'll probably pick a defensive trinket on top of the obligatory Accuracy one on BH. So something like Sun Ring + Heavy Boots. HM will get a bleed-boosting trinket unless going to Cove or Ruins, in which case we'll boost speed instead (always good). Occultist always gets an Accuracy trinket, and the other depends on your moves: normally I'd use Daemon Pull, but since this team can hit rank 4 easily, maybe boost debuff or crit instead. That ended up being really long, but that's basically the thought process. Always assume the worst on Champion, and realize that doing one thing well is a lot better than covering multiple roles poorly. You have be able to rely on your plans working out most of the time. When they don't, it's good to have a team that isn't too rank specific. Lepers are really good, but if they get shuffled.... And always play to the class's strengths. Like for crusaders, stunning blow will rarely work as-is and it's not worth giving them a stun-boosting trinket, so it's better to focus on their damage or healing, depending on what you need. More than anything else, though, always boost accuracy unless the hero has a quirk like Natural Swing or (type) Slayer. Oh, and count on enemies getting a series of crits in a row, not much you can do to avoid that. No matter how well you prepare, there's always a chance that, say, you get a team of spitting pigs who all go first, all crit and at least one inflicts a disease like Rabies or Hysterical Blindness, so in 1 turn you have someone afflicted and worthless for going forward. Sometimes DD hates you and you have to bail, and all you can do is accept it and try again. Anyway, sorry that ended up being a bit long; I've been wanting to organize that stuff bouncing around in my head for awhile and I guess now was the time, heh. Hunt11 posted:I have made some mistakes which have not helped (healer head combined with vestal battle scroll is a horrible combination) Yeah, that's one reason why I stress Accuracy so much. Profane Scroll is good times, but it forces her into melee and doesn't boost Accuracy, you basically have to dedicate the other trinket slot to fixing that lack, or give her the healing tome and accept you're rarely going to attack with her. Good thing the Scroll boosts everything else she does, though!
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Dec 5, 2016 00:36
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Hunt11 posted:Any advice for lowering the mortality rate for Champion level missions? You can't instakill things. Don't try too hard on that, unless you try real loving hard, like a Leper with hatred of <thing>, Slugger, buffed by an Occultist and with two damage trinkets. Then go ahead, but remember you just can't kill three enemies in one turn like you can in beginner and veteran. Dodge and accuracy are important. Every dodge and every hit stacks up in the end. Enemies have around 100 accuracy, and 30+ dodge starts showing. Dodge nullifies stress damage, diseases, bleed and blight, etc. It's really good to stack up on that. On the other hand, every miss deals 0 damage, so even though you may not like losing 10-15% damage on your damage dealer, you'll hate giving the backrow stress dealers another turn because you missed. And going from 60% accuracy to 75% is huge. Even small stress heals like the Crusader's can help a lot. There's no room for holes on a party on Champion, it needs to work like a machine. Have a plan for every character in the party. You really want to avoid turns where you just do a random action because there's nothing better to do. Halser fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 04:02
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The early game can mess with your head a bit, because it really is way easier. I restarted a bit ago and I had an all-star party to go trounce the apprentice necromancer, and it went without a hitch. My leper had Slugger, the anti-undead ring, and on the way there got one of the altar buffs, so he was running into the fight with a passive +60% or w/e, every minion he summoned got slapped down in one hew, including damaging the necromancer. As normal I beelined the boss, so as I was clearing backwards to score more loot I ran into the Collector, who similarly kept having his minions flattened in one round. There was a shambler altar I could have done but the party I had (Crusader, Leper, PD, Vestal) doesn't really deal with shuffling very well. I've had a lot of luck with positive quirks on this run - MAA with hard skinned, Arbalist with the +10% range damage etc. Pretty crazy, although i'm poor from locking in good, fitting quirks like that. You can lean pretty heavy on plague doctors later on, they get that nice +acc, stun, and blight trinket and can reliably stun through the post-stun buff. They're super handy, but they are also a crutch like relying on vestals. Although a vestal with the +heal/-stress scroll and junia's head can basically AOE heal your party to full every round.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:42
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New Update - Episode 35: Kaboom Dragoon's Explosive Personality Bit of a strange update today where we talk about random facets of game design, train more rookies to deal with the mid tier bosses, and I realize just how good Kaboom Dragoon is out of the gate so I stick em in the front line.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:57
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In my run, I have more Plague Doctors than Vestals. She's my Vestal. All the stuns, shuffles and DoT's. So good.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:09
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I only have two PDs in my group currently and I'm at the end game. The PDs are niche, but when that niche hits they are incredible. Edit: In regards to surviving champion dungeons, party comp is very important. Try to find classes that work well together. As has been stated in the thread before, the Occultist and Arbalest are bestest buddies since they synergize their skills. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 23:22
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Embrace the Dance Party, Highwang. Load up those move skills.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:23
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Confirming that Star Ocean 2 does indeed have some real bad voice acting. Color me surprised that you didn't use Bowman, though. If you don't get Dias, he's the first character a "mash until you win" spell.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:28
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Well, started a new game, and have almost immediately gotten Dismas prepared as an anti-fishman build, getting Eldritch hater and Eldritch slayer right off the bat. Also got a second highwayman (Bobby Garin) with a slightly lower speed so as to get the ol' double-barrelled strategy.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:08
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Samovar posted:Well, started a new game, and have almost immediately gotten Dismas prepared as an anti-fishman build, getting Eldritch hater and Eldritch slayer right off the bat. Also got a second highwayman (Bobby Garin) with a slightly lower speed so as to get the ol' double-barrelled strategy. Lock those Eldritch skills in. Holy crap, getting a Highwayman with that kind of damage against Eldritch is huge. He's also going to be great in the Weald. A bunch of the scarier monsters in that place are Eldritch.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:08
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Krumbsthumbs posted:Lock those Eldritch skills in. Holy crap, getting a Highwayman with that kind of damage against Eldritch is huge. Nae danger. Even I, as dumb as I am, recognised the potential in that synergy.
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Dec 6, 2016 10:59
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the best way to deal with Champion dungeons is getting used to the fact that youre going to get screwed by the RNG 25% of the time. camp if you even think it might be a possibly good idea, and have skills to prevent the ambush. know exactly what kind of enemy layouts you can run up against in any given area, and have a party composition with solutions for them. more than anything, dont be afraid to pull the ripcord and bail on the mission before you start losing people. trinkets and locked skills are nice bonuses, but theyre secondary to having situational awareness and simply not being caught off-guard as a player. e. sez the guy who just lost a legendary leper to being shouted at by a madman e2. also, cmon Highwang, Bone Generals are way waaaaay worse than Swinetaurs. the BGs can do a mass stun every turn if they feel like it, whereas the 'taurs are useless and limited to Trot Retreat (which I have never seen hit) or Crunching Backhand (which does negligible damage) as long as theyre in the front row. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 11:19
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inthesto posted:Confirming that Star Ocean 2 does indeed have some real bad voice acting. Color me surprised that you didn't use Bowman, though. If you don't get Dias, he's the first character a "mash until you win" spell. Star Ocean games in general have bad/mediocre voice acting, see also the PSP remakes which have almost fully voiced the entire script for 1 and 2. That said, I do love me some SO2, it has just enough dumb anime bullshit and grounded characters for me to still enjoy it, though really I enjoy it for all the game mechanics (and breaking them over my knee i.e. crafting). Also yeah, SO2 and 3 have some real issues with redundant characters, looking at you Cliff's girlfriend, but cornering an enemy in 2 with three melee characters dishes out damage like crazy and I love it.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:30
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I am getting better at not being caught off guard. I made short work of the Swine God and even the special visitor I managed to handle with some difficulty. And yes, sometimes the game just hates you. Like when I was fighting the Necromancer Lord or whatever he summoned a Bone General which made the fight a little bit too much for me to handle.
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Dec 6, 2016 13:33
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Btw, are mixed enemy types, e.g. the Swine, vulnerable to both increased damage to humans and beasts? Like, if a person gets 20% damage boost on humans and beasts, dies that equate to 40% on the Swine?
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Dec 6, 2016 14:07
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Samovar posted:Btw, are mixed enemy types, e.g. the Swine, vulnerable to both increased damage to humans and beasts? Like, if a person gets 20% damage boost on humans and beasts, dies that equate to 40% on the Swine? Yes, it would work like that if they have both tags and you have both boosts.
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Dec 6, 2016 14:31
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paranoid randroid posted:the best way to deal with Champion dungeons is getting used to the fact that youre going to get screwed by the RNG 25% of the time. camp if you even think it might be a possibly good idea, and have skills to prevent the ambush. know exactly what kind of enemy layouts you can run up against in any given area, and have a party composition with solutions for them. more than anything, dont be afraid to pull the ripcord and bail on the mission before you start losing people. Swinetaurs are nasty, but they can be neutered by an Occultist with weakening curse. A Ground Pound is a nightmare even if it deals 0 damage. Both are pretty annoying, though, and I might prefer facing Bone Generals simply because the things accompanying them are less troublesome. [Hook it Where it Hurts] [Vomit]
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Dec 6, 2016 19:35
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Halser posted:Swinetaurs are nasty, but they can be neutered by an Occultist with weakening curse. A Ground Pound is a nightmare even if it deals 0 damage. man, Swine Gorers can take a freaking hike.
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Dec 7, 2016 04:18
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Wait did Iron Chitlin just say he enjoys playing Ride To Hell: Retribution
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Dec 7, 2016 20:14
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I Killed GBS posted:Wait did Iron Chitlin just say he enjoys playing Ride To Hell: Retribution Yeah. I don't think Chitlin's well in the head. Friend of mine's trying to convince him to LP it.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:10
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paranoid randroid posted:man, Swine Gorers can take a freaking hike. Butchers are also pretty nasty. I'm legit afraid of the champion Warrens more than the Weald, the targeting flexibility on Warrens enemies make it really hard to build a good strategy against them.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:38
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Where do I find that picture that was at the very end of the video?
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Dec 7, 2016 23:00
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IMJack posted:Where do I find that picture that was at the very end of the video? Right here 
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Dec 7, 2016 23:27
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Well, killed my first Shambler. I hate to quote Wellington, but was a damned close thing - thank God for invigorating vapours and the fact I picked up a crescendo box in the same dungeon.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:49
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I'm really not enjoying the Crusader on Champion difficulty. Marking yourself is really loving stupid more often than not, the stun is generic, targeting range unexceptional, all he's got going is stress-healing a little, and doing more damage vs Unholy. Man at Arms can do way more for the group's survival (dodge stacking, attack intercepting), has a better stun and better targeting. Meanwhile the Hellion is at least honest about not being there for anything other than destroying poo poo, and the Leper hits like a train with a little work and has the option of debuffing the damage/accuracy of front row enemies. Great camping skill, though. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 01:33
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Psykmoe posted:I'm really not enjoying the Crusader on Champion difficulty. Marking yourself is really loving stupid more often than not, the stun is generic, targeting range unexceptional, all he's got going is stress-healing a little, and doing more damage vs Unholy. Man at Arms can do way more for the group's survival (dodge stacking, attack intercepting), has a better stun and better targeting. Meanwhile the Hellion is at least honest about not being there for anything other than destroying poo poo, and the Leper hits like a train with a little work and has the option of debuffing the damage/accuracy of front row enemies. Crusader is a staple part of my generic/all dungeons Maintain Phase group. This is... - Crusader - Houndmaster with cudgel/stun and guard - Vestal or Occultist - Dungeon-dependent 4th person (Cove? Go PD, etc) On many champ groups, you can grind them down to 2 range 1-2 guys, then just spam up guard on your HM (so no further threats to team) and heal stress with CRU and heal with VES. Attack, stun, or buff with the 4th dude. Early on when you're only level 5, 2 crusaders can easily tank any ruins Champion dungeon and heal full stress. Plus great stress reduction camping buffs. Not ideal for Darkest-level dungeons, except maybe HoD, but in general, quite versatile and especially good at easily clearing ruins due to Unholy damage benefits. Also quite good for Shuffling Horror for Lance.
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Dec 8, 2016 07:58
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Only use i tend to have for a crusader is to stack damage boost quirks on him so he becomes a one shotting murder machine in ruins.
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Dec 8, 2016 09:11
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Iretep posted:Only use i tend to have for a crusader is to stack damage boost quirks on him so he becomes a one shotting murder machine in ruins. I feel like he's still trumped by the leper who is a one shotting murder machine in every dungeon. Don't get me wrong, i still like the crusader, but i generally really prefer a Leper or MaA in terms of 'tanky' characters. Leper's the only guy that can reliably kill two of the little poo poo enemies in one go. (Ie. 2x spiders, maggots etc). Offhand I can find uses for every character except the Jester. I still cannot stand that guy.
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Dec 8, 2016 15:00
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