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Doc Neutral posted:I've had this video shared by some friends in a checkmate socialist that's really lo9ng. can someone link the part where someone hits him with a bottle or something?
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Dec 4, 2016 14:38
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kinda way and it was too long a video for me refute it but I'm wondering if any of you have seen it and if so what's your take on it? I realise I'm being lazy as hell here but I'm still a babby when it comes to marxist theory, so please chip in comrades. 
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Deimus posted:And the guy is going around saying he predicted the '2007 crash' like he was the only one who saw it. Peter Schiff predicts economic collapse nearly every year because it's beneficial to his investment company for people to be spooked by market failures lmao eta: I was actually at Zuccotti Park the day he showed up with that sign so this is a weird blast from the past. eta2: http://www.viddler.com/v/8c698853 GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 15:34
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Doc Neutral posted:I've had this video shared by some friends in a checkmate socialist I skipped through this video to see how long it took to see Schiff talking out of his rear end and it took ten seconds. Around 50:00 or so he "debunks" the high income tax rate of 1943, when the highest bracket was 94%. "But nobody paid it!" He says, saying there were deductibles and also explaining progressive taxation as if his audience didn't understand that no, not ALL income for rich people was taxed at 94%. Then he says something extraordinary. He says that people like him pay MORE under the present tax system than they did in 1943. He says this without actually saying what he believes the effective tax rate for a person making his income equivalent in 1943 would have been, but he clearly implies that it's LESS THAN 20% (or 15%, whatever his effective rate is - Mitt Romney's is 15%). That is an INCREDIBLE claim, as he's saying the many, many tax breaks granted to the rich from 1943 to now were actually tax INCREASES. I mean, that's loving amazing. That is not to mention his disingenuity when he lists his corporate tax rate in a conversation about individual taxation. Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 16:59
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Top City Homo posted:just laugh in the face of lolbertarians I'll never not laugh in the face of lolbertarians. Thanks guys for the help. I'm wondering about something else this time it's the argument that that all the fault lies with crony capitalism with all it's bailouts, wage deprecation and lobbying that's the problem and not real capitalism, doesn't that backfire on socialist in regards to the USSR and the whole argument of not real socialism when you claim it's a feature and not a bug? Doc Neutral fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 18:55
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Doc Neutral posted:I'll never not laugh in the face of lolbertarians. Thanks guys for the help. I'm wondering about something else this time it's the argument that that all the fault lies with crony capitalism with all it's bailouts, wage deprecation and lobbying that's the problem and not real capitalism, doesn't that backfire on socialist in regards to the USSR and the whole argument of not real socialism when you claim it's a feature and not a bug? Well, at the very least it should give these guys pause when their arguments are more or less of the same pattern as "real socialism hasn't ever been tried."
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Dec 4, 2016 19:17
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Doc Neutral posted:I've had this video shared by some friends in a checkmate socialist the counter argument is this man being executed after being worked into a human skeleton in a gulag
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Dec 4, 2016 19:49
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Doc Neutral posted:I'll never not laugh in the face of lolbertarians. Thanks guys for the help. I'm wondering about something else this time it's the argument that that all the fault lies with crony capitalism with all it's bailouts, wage deprecation and lobbying that's the problem and not real capitalism, doesn't that backfire on socialist in regards to the USSR and the whole argument of not real socialism when you claim it's a feature and not a bug? the ussr was unequivocally better than the united states both in terms of what it was able to guarantee its domestic population and the stances it took on foreign affairs and struggles of national liberation. actually existing socialism beats actually existing capitalism. "ideal" socialism beats "ideal" capitalism as well. there's no contest
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Dec 4, 2016 19:49
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Woozy posted:the counter argument is this man being executed after being worked into a human skeleton in a gulag so ultimately both positions are in agreement then
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Dec 4, 2016 19:56
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Prav posted:so ultimately both positions are in agreement then this happens surprisingly often, actually
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Dec 4, 2016 20:40
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Hey guys, it's me, the guy with a hot take. What if the USSR and the USA were both bad, but for different reasons.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:06
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jarofpiss posted:that's really lo9ng. can someone link the part where someone hits him with a bottle or something? isn't the whole point of von Mises that you can hit someone with a bottle at any time
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Dec 4, 2016 21:30
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Larry Parrish posted:Hey guys, it's me, the guy with a hot take. What if the USSR and the USA were both bad, but for different reasons. @trotsky
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Dec 4, 2016 22:49
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Larry Parrish posted:Hey guys, it's me, the guy with a hot take. What if the USSR and the USA were both bad, but for different reasons. this is correct.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:08
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what if the history of revolutionary socialism has been rather bloody and its achievements less than originally anticipated
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Dec 4, 2016 23:15
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i imagine it's hard for revolutionary socialism to work when the other 80% of the world is hardline capitalist and attacks them
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Dec 4, 2016 23:43
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if i cared for failing nobly i'd be an anarchist
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Dec 4, 2016 23:50
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I guess we can continue full steam with capitalism, then?
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Dec 4, 2016 23:52
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deadgoon posted:what if the history of revolutionary socialism has been rather bloody and its achievements less than originally anticipated has revolutionary socialism occurred in a society with a labor surplus? i mean, i don't think any communist takeover has started in the way Marx predicted it must. Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 23:52
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*arms, trains, and funds every aspiring nazi in the thirld world* geeze, these frickin' reds are always going nuts about security
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Dec 4, 2016 23:53
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:i imagine it's hard for revolutionary socialism to work when the other 80% of the world is hardline capitalist and attacks them lol at this whiny bullshit. The same logic that says capitalism must be replaced also says that capitalism will resist being replaced with all its might. If revolutionary socialism is doomed to fail unless capitalism just rolls over for it, you should probably pick a better political philosophy.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc
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Dec 5, 2016 00:00
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:lol at this whiny bullshit. The same logic that says capitalism must be replaced also says that capitalism will resist being replaced with all its might. If revolutionary socialism is doomed to fail unless capitalism just rolls over for it, you should probably pick a better political philosophy. Nothing there says it's doomed to fail, rather that its success is very difficult.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:02
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:lol at this whiny bullshit. The same logic that says capitalism must be replaced also says that capitalism will resist being replaced with all its might. If revolutionary socialism is doomed to fail unless capitalism just rolls over for it, you should probably pick a better political philosophy. castro outfoxed 10 US presidents and vietnam won the war. i agree that its a bitch move to cry foul over states that did collapse but liberals who insist this amounts to some inherent flaw in ideology are full of poo poo
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Dec 5, 2016 00:02
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Woozy posted:castro outfoxed 10 US presidents and vietnam won the war. i agree that its a bitch move to cry foul over states that did collapse but liberals who insist this amounts to some inherent flaw in ideology are full of poo poo Agreed.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:06
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:lol at this whiny bullshit. The same logic that says capitalism must be replaced also says that capitalism will resist being replaced with all its might. If revolutionary socialism is doomed to fail unless capitalism just rolls over for it, you should probably pick a better political philosophy. Hmm on the one hand there is an 'idealist' philosophy that believes in treating other people as brothers and sisters. On the other hand, gently caress everything, profit is sacred. Yeah I guess you're right, I should give up just because it's not easy!
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Dec 5, 2016 00:08
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Hmm on the one hand there is an 'idealist' philosophy that believes in treating other people as brothers and sisters. i dont think he's saying you should give up
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Dec 5, 2016 00:10
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Woozy posted:i dont think he's saying you should give up It seemed like a snarky comment made for no reason, tbh. Then again I haven't slept in 2 days because I'm sick so I am kind of out of it. Carry on.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:15
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:It seemed like a snarky comment made for no reason, tbh. Then again I haven't slept in 2 days because I'm sick so I am kind of out of it. Carry on. you posted the same thing basically that i did so i dont think youre wrong i just wanted to clarify that we should understand socialist revolutions that collapsed under the force of capitalist reactions as failures of those particular revolutions, as opposed to failures of capitalism. maybe thats not what you meant anyway i dont know im tired too
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Dec 5, 2016 00:26
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I figured out a connection Castro = St Caro https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/805546565750390785 Liberals love fascists because they dress nice and are polite to them
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Dec 5, 2016 00:48
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Woozy posted:liberals who insist this amounts to some inherent flaw in ideology are full of poo poo Case A: "starve the beast" market fundamentalists campaign on the inefficiencies of government, throw a wrench into every aspect of it they can, and then use this to prove their original point and argue for more privatization. Case B: imperialist powerhouses subvert and overthrow every socialist project unprepared to defend itself, create a world-system that thereby selects for more authoritarian strains of socialism, and then use this as evidence of the inherent undesirability of socialism. the right-wing rhetorical strategy is similar, but the liberal responses could not be more different
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Dec 5, 2016 00:49
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Atrocious Joe posted:I figured out a connection lololol
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Dec 5, 2016 00:49
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Atrocious Joe posted:I figured out a connection you can see the cogs turning in his brain to rationalize liking trump
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Dec 5, 2016 00:55
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this is a good video
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Dec 5, 2016 01:44
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pointless sectarianism, ignore comrades
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Dec 5, 2016 02:06
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Atrocious Joe posted:I figured out a connection 
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Dec 5, 2016 07:42
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Larry Parrish posted:Hey guys, it's me, the guy with a hot take. What if the USSR and the USA were both bad, but for different reasons. You tankie bastard
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Dec 5, 2016 10:18
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I was thinking about revolutionary changes that could be made at the state level that a mini dictatorship of the proletariat might be able to do, and what their effects would be (good or bad). What if a state established a $0 rent ceiling? Challenges I thought of: Gotta prevent landlords from replacing their apartment complexes with mcdonalds or office space. Strict Zoning might help? Hotels would also be affected, but they could still charge for the amenities they offer, plus they'd be able to profit off tenants leaving rooms in a mess & forfeiting a deposit. As well as charging for utilities in the way that non-hotel landlords already do. By the end of it all, they might operate in a similar way to today. If hotels would still be a thing, landlords could bend the rules by being more hotel-like, but that might be a good thing. Employing cleaners & such would be job creation, and we all know landlords often neglect their properties until they decline pretty badly. And there are probably a hundred others. I am bad at this. So, terrible idea or just bad idea? Edit: I just learned the difference between an apartment and a condo. Neat. 
Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:36
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Ruzihm posted:I was thinking about revolutionary changes that could be made at the state level that a mini dictatorship of the proletariat might be able to do, and what their effects would be (good or bad). It absolutely could work. Especially since if a state did something like actually charging filthy South California for its water and using it on the people instead of stuffing it into campaign funds and Capitol building renovations like what usually happens
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Dec 5, 2016 21:09
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Homework Explainer posted:the ussr was unequivocally better than the united states both in terms of what it was able to guarantee its domestic population and the stances it took on foreign affairs and struggles of national liberation. actually existing socialism beats actually existing capitalism. "ideal" socialism beats "ideal" capitalism as well. there's no contest Well it's gone. That seems like a con. Add: Yes, all powerful imperialist U.S. destroyed all the worlds socialism except powerhouse Cuba. This makes sense. asdf32 fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 04:42
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Sure does.  
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