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atomictyler
May 8, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

OK I just want to be clear; Clowney was listed as Questionable all week, and was downgraded to Out today. We aren't talking about players with no injury designation suddenly being Out... we're talking about injured players who are Questionable, but you preferred to gamble by not acquiring a healthy backup earlier in the week.


"Clowney was originally listed as Questionable after practicing on a limited basis all week" is exactly how Questionable players are usually treated. They get no, or limited practice. If they practice in full, then they'll probably play, but otherwise... yeah, it's a gamble to count on them and you should have a backup.

I generally check Rotoworld for all of my questionable players by thursday and if there's any chance the player won't play, I make sure I have a healthy backup to go, including waivering one for Saturday. This means I have to manage a healthy bench, including trading away or dropping players by saturday if I have no healthy backups. It means I can't stash as many lottery tickets for long-term play.

The argument seems to be that instead of having to do that, it should be fine to roster many injured, Questionable players, and then only have to actually drop someone when one of those Questionable guys is downgraded on Saturday night/Sunday morning. I disagree that this is necessary, but if the consensus is that it is, alright.

But. The later the waivers process, the more pressure it puts on every owner to be available right after waivers run but before games start, in order to rearrange the roster when you pick up or drop a player. Since it's FAAB, you can't be certain you'll get what you want: basically checking in is mandatory unless you did not submit anything for this waiver period.

This also means it's basically impossible to make a trade with another owner after the waivers process but before games start. I'm less concerned about that, but it's a factor.

SO I'm saying that in a league with no free agency period, I don't want to have to get up early every loving Sunday just to see if my waiver wire went through and I might need to shuffle players.

There's also a shitload of players that get listed as questionable, limited in practice and then play. We can't just act as if every questionable player isn't playing, it's impossible. I also do have two others DEs who have been going back and forth too. Again, this is a dynasty league so I'm not dropping my best players for that position when it could be fixed with a wavier time that's after the majority of players get marked as out. There's also players who I KNOW will be out, but MFL doesn't change their status until AFTER our waiver period.

Has there EVER been a trade that involved a FA signing on a Saturday?

I still think midnight Saturday for the waiver is good. That's 9pm west coast, so you have time to make adjustments before bed and people on the east coast can make their roster adjustments in the morning well before games start. If someone requires 13 hours of sleep regularly they might want to make a doctors appointment, because something is wrong.

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Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Last week 5 of my recievers hit the endzone. Today zero.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I started Kaepernick. In the snow. He's been pulled from the game with one completed pass through three quarters.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004

Leperflesh posted:

I started Kaepernick. In the snow. He's been pulled from the game with one completed pass through three quarters.

I did in another league. Pretty happy with it!

Chen Kenichi
Jul 20, 2001
Hey guys I hear Vontaze Burfict is pretty good :D

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Oh cmon Gridiron, I actually had a chance at playoffs for fucks sake.

And then you had to go and do this.

Chen Kenichi
Jul 20, 2001

Spermy Smurf posted:

Oh cmon Gridiron, I actually had a chance at playoffs for fucks sake.

And then you had to go and do this.

Hey I am still losing right now! Honestly it does not look good for me. I just felt like pointing out dude had a 42.75 point day before any stat corrections for stuffs or whatever.

Edit: oh gosh I didn't realize CAP was inactive :o

Chen Kenichi fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 4, 2016

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I'm thinking about it and I can live with a midnight eastern time saturday night waiver. It helps owners with lots of injured players, but that's an equalizer in theory, so not terrible.

I assume we're talking next season, making a mid-season change isn't really fair if some owners have flushed questionable players on the basis of not being able to grab last-second backups or whatever.

Let's give anyone else who wants to weigh in a chance, and then commissioners can discuss a rule change or a vote.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
In reaponse to Chen: Its halftime and you have 6 guys playing.


You will be fine...

atomictyler
May 8, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

I'm thinking about it and I can live with a midnight eastern time saturday night waiver. It helps owners with lots of injured players, but that's an equalizer in theory, so not terrible.

I assume we're talking next season, making a mid-season change isn't really fair if some owners have flushed questionable players on the basis of not being able to grab last-second backups or whatever.

Let's give anyone else who wants to weigh in a chance, and then commissioners can discuss a rule change or a vote.

yeah, I'm fine with waiting until next season.

Chen Kenichi
Jul 20, 2001

Spermy Smurf posted:

In reaponse to Chen: Its halftime and you have 6 guys playing.


You will be fine...

You're right - I will be fine.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I made bad decisions.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004

Leperflesh posted:

I made bad decisions.

We should start a support group.

My bad decisions started back in the draft. I am completely unsure how I got where I am today but I really really hate drunk me from draft day.

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007
I was fuckin wasted during the espn draft

and look at me now

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
I just dont get my logic.

"No problem, franchise quarterbacks happen all the time. I am fine with Bradford and Smith. My stopgap will be Peyton. I am set for at least 5 years."


I have done some dumb poo poo while drunk but this is on another level.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

There's still tonight's game, but based on a quick look, a bunch of the matches are already decided. I believe of the 6-6 teams, only Team McLean is going to win.

Ketchum and Second Round look to be tying at 9-4, so whichever loses that tiebreaker plays Team McLean next week in the wildcard match, while the winner of that tiebreaker, along with the Chefs and Brick Squad, all get byes and then seeded into the week 15 semifinals.

This is barring stat adjustments or huge scores from one or two players still yet to play.

I'm going to lose by a large enough margin that my decisions about who to start this week (of the players actually on my roster) didn't matter, there doesn't seem to be a combo that could have won. That doesn't make me any happier, really. I started this season very strong despite Bell's 3-game suspension, and then ended horribly despite Bell turning in consistently great scores. It turns out even if you anchor your team with a star or two, you still need some other good players.

But! I still intend to play hard for the consolation bracket championship. There's $20 on the line!

The Zack
Jan 1, 2005

Pillbug
My team really poo poo the bed there. After starting 6-3, I proceeded to lose 4 in a row, never topping 120. I went below 120 once before this streak. Never dipped below 100, though. Only 4 teams can boast that.

If I'm reading this correctly, I have the most possible points and by far the lowest efficiency. Meaning I don't know who to start and who to bench.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
If JPP doesn't get flagged as IR before the Waivers (he had core muscle surgery, he's done for the year) and my waiver to replace him is uncontested can we add them to my team after he is allowed to be put on IR if the waiver claim fails because MFL isn't updating?

This sounds so familiar...

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Crisis averted. It happened quicker than I've seen it happen before so I'm good.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

So, the site has the victory tournament already set up, but I need to manually put in the consolation tournament matchups. I'll get that done today, ahead of tomorrow's game. If you're not one of the four teams on bye, be sure to set a lineup: you will have a match!

For the seeding and tournament rules, see section 4 of our league rules.

Seeding
pre:
Season 	Team				points for	Division	Bracket/seed	
10-3	1017 BRICK SQUAD		1847.02		Div3 winner	 1 (week 14 BYE)
9-4	Ash Ketchum Gotta catch em	1871.30		Div2 winner	 2 (week 14 BYE)
8-5	Gridiron Chefs			1658.52		Div1 winner	 3 (week 14 BYE)

9-4	Second Round Kickers		1779.68		Div2		 4 (Wildcard)
7-6	Team McLean			1779.17		Div2		 5 (Wildcard)

6-7	Concord Concordes		1770.88		Div3		 6 (Consolation: week 14 BYE)
6-7	Mediocre Cougars		1702.50		Div2		 7 (Consolation)
6-7	I'm Pretty Garbage At This	1661.53		Div3		 8 (Consolation)
6-7	First Down Syndrome		1649.20		Div1		 9 (Consolation)
5-8	BALLS OF FURY			1620.31		Div1		10 (Consolation)
4-9	Hawk Hunters			1631.67		Div3		11 (Consolation)
2-11	Who Da Titoons?			1468.42		Div1		12 (Consolation)
Week 14:
Brick, Ash, Chefs: BYE

Second Round Kickers vs. Team McLean (WILDCARD)

Concord Concordes: BYE (consolation)
Mediocre Cougars vs. Who Da Titoons?
I'm Pretty Garbage At This vs. Hawk Hunters
First Down Syndrome vs. BALLS OF FURY

Note that the loser of the wildcard match can't win the consolation bracket! The winner will place among the top four teams, and the winner of the consolation bracket gets a $20 consolation prize and fifth place in the league final standings.

Everyone in the consolation bracket is now guaranteed a higher draft pick position than those top five teams, and this is based on Points For, irrespective of win/loss. Titoons, Hunters, Balls, and First Down are the current first four picks... but if any of them win the consolation bracket, then they pop up to fifth place and I'm Pretty Garbage snags one of those first four picks instead.

The three teams that aren't one of those first four picks, and don't win the consolation tournament (inclusive of the loser of the wildcard match) get seeded into the middle of the draft round, at picks 5-7.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 7, 2016

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I propose a new rule: teams eliminated from the real playoffs should have their taxi squad players be immune from theft, and teams on BYE cannot steal players. Otherwise these last three weeks, there's too much shenanigan potential by teams just looking to grab value for next season.

Actually maybe taxi squad theft should just outright stop after week 13?

e. I've setup the tournament brackets for the consolation tourney, but, I have to manually change the week 15 bracket after the week 14 games, to set the matchups according to seeding depending on who wins the week 14 games.

However: the site is still showing everyone as being on bye. I'll give it a little time to see if it needs to update, but maybe I have to actually push a button somewhere to activate the playoffs? I'll figure it out.

e2. Got it. When there's multiple brackets, MFL can't do automatic seeding... I had to manually seed, but they have a tool for it. Should be right. I'll still need to fix the consolation bracket for week 15 after we have results from this week, but everything else should work.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Dec 7, 2016

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007
I went from worst to first and I have no idea how

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Stevie Lee posted:

I went from worst to first and I have no idea how

Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, LeSean McCoy, Mark Ingram, Doug Baldwin, Tyreek Hill, Delanie Walker, and Khalil Mack.

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007
yeahhh, but I had all those dudes last year. and I coulda had Ezekiel instead of Delanie

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Your team with Zeke.. god drat. That woulda been repeat champs.


I am still 4th worst, exactly where I was last year. Fantastic. Improvement is for chumps.

Chen Kenichi
Jul 20, 2001

Leperflesh posted:

I propose a new rule: teams eliminated from the real playoffs should have their taxi squad players be immune from theft, and teams on BYE cannot steal players. Otherwise these last three weeks, there's too much shenanigan potential by teams just looking to grab value for next season.

Actually maybe taxi squad theft should just outright stop after week 13?


Pretty good idea, but make the freeze for all teams as it would suck to be forced into a start decision of a taxi squad guy during the playoffs by a team that it has much less or no implications for.

Example is I have a team out of the playoffs and I know I plan to drop five guys for the next year - I can now force one team still in the playoffs to start any/all taxi guys or give them to me by dropping one or more of those five now even though there is zero play value of the claimer to do so. Essentially a team that is out can raid everyone else's taxi squad as they see fit with no actual play consequences in doing so.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Yeah just a straight up taxi squad freeze sounds appropriate. In the great majority of cases if a rookie wasn't startable by week 13, he's not going to suddenly be startable during the playoffs.

A lot of leagues also have a trade freeze, but I don't think that's needed for dynasty. If you're out of the playoffs and want to trade with someone who is in, you'll be looking for value next year, not just dumping players for the sake of kingmaking.

One other thing, this is for future discussion, but I was reminded while seeding the playoff brackets that losing the wildcard match really sucks. By our league rules, you don't wind up seeded into the consolation rounds, so if you make the wildcard match, you can't win the consolation tournament. You're just out. Last year I set up meaningless matches for that owner to play, vs. teams that lost in the first round of the consolation brackets, but that felt dissatisfying.

If anyone wants to think about how we structure our playoffs and make a proposal for changes for next year, I'd encourage that. The key elements, to me, are that there's still something for owners who get mathematically eliminated from playoff contention to strive for. For example, there's been no path to the playoffs for the Titoons for weeks now, but that $20 prize is still theoretically in reach through week 13.

In the main fantasy football thread, people have occasionally mentioned some weekly prizes/awards they do especially late in the season that can also help keep interest and participation up for owners out of contention. I don't like "you get a prize for having the most points scored this week" because that's very likely to just go to someone who had a good team already and is thus already in contention, but there's other ways you can go. "Best roster efficiency" for example would go to whoever made the best choices between starters and bench players. I dunno, feel free to brainstorm ideas.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
I posted this in another thread about what some people do:

1) HOT START: Highest team score

2) Hero to Zero: Biggest NEGATIVE team points differential from Week 1 to Week 2

3) MVP: Highest scoring individual player (QB most weeks?)

4) Bench Warmer: Team with highest scoring bench player

5) Best Loser: Highest scoring losing team

6) Photo Finish: Team with closest margin of victory

7) Halftime Bonus: 1st place team after 7 weeks. (Or total points?)

8) Biggest Blow out: Largest margin of victory

9) Dirty 30: Team with player closest to 30 points (under OR over)

10) Bulls-eye: Team closest to their project point total

11) Over Achiever: Team with most points over their weekly projection

12) Highest Scoring WR/RB

13) Highest Scoring TE

14) Highest Scoring Defense




Edit: About wildcard spot... maybe $5 to each team in it, and the chance to win the big pot? That chance is worth something, I dont know how much though.

atomictyler
May 8, 2009
Here's the highest scores for each week (if you're not here, I'm sorry about your team):

Second Round Kickers: 4
107 Brick Squad: 2
Team McLean: 2
I'm Pretty Garbage At This: 2
Gridiron Chefts: 1
Ash Ketchum Gotta catch em: 1
Hawk Hunters: 1


This was just to see how it would've workout if that was the option.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

My first impression is that a lot of these would wind up rewarding teams that are already likely to end in the money (top three), but let's do a quick rundown and test my assumption against the last year.

Spermy Smurf posted:

I posted this in another thread about what some people do:

1) HOT START: Highest team score <week 1, Second Round Kickers with 167.44 points. Made the playoffs.>

2) Hero to Zero: Biggest NEGATIVE team points differential from Week 1 to Week 2 <First Down Syndrome, dropping from 141.79 to 115.04. Missed the playoffs.>

3) MVP: Highest scoring individual player (QB most weeks?) <Not started: Marvin Jones on Ash Ketchum. Started: Devonta Freeman, on First Down Syndrome. Missed playoffs.>

4) Bench Warmer: Team with highest scoring bench player <Gridiron Chefs (Ben Roethlisberger, 33.9pts). Made the playoffs.>

5) Best Loser: Highest scoring losing team <Concordes, 131.11 pts. Missed playoffs.>

6) Photo Finish: Team with closest margin of victory <BRICK SQUAD, beat Titoons 143.30 to 142.92. Made the playoffs.>

7) Halftime Bonus: 1st place team after 7 weeks. (Or total points?) <BRICK, Ketchum, and Second Round Kickers were tied at 5-2. Ketchum had highest total points, at 1019.15. All three teams made the playoffs.>

8) Biggest Blow out: Largest margin of victory <Mediocre Cougars, defeated Titoons 151.05 to 75.53. Missed the playoffs.>

9) Dirty 30: Team with player closest to 30 points (under OR over) <Among starters, BRICK had Mark Ingram at 30.10. No bench players were closer. BRICK made the playoffs.>

10) Bulls-eye: Team closest to their project point total <I can't find projected points for previous weeks in MFL without visiting individual player screens.>

11) Over Achiever: Team with most points over their weekly projection <again, can't find past projected points for teams>

12) Highest Scoring WR/RB <Tyreek Hill on BRICK's bench got 32.56; highest starter was Antonio Brown for the Second Round Kickers at 29.60. Both teams made the playoffs.>

13) Highest Scoring TE <Dennis Pitta on the Chef's bench got 23.50: highest starter was Zach Ertz on BALLS OF FURY who got 18.72. Chefs made the playoffs, BALLS didn't.>

14) Highest Scoring Defense <We haven't had a week 14 yet, but last week, highest IDP player was Vontaze Burfict who started on the Chefs and got 42.75 points. Chefs made the playoffs.>




Edit: About wildcard spot... maybe $5 to each team in it, and the chance to win the big pot? That chance is worth something, I dont know how much though.

So, overall, a lot of these would be won by teams already contending for playoff spots with good shots at a significant payout (money for places 1 through 3, so two will finish out of the money and three in). But a few would have gone to other teams.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Yeah, i wasn't saying use them all season long.

Pick three or four that are entertaining for the playoff race and our wildcard week like you had suggested. I dont know how long our playoffs are because I am terrible.

I think "Played the best players" or the Roster Efficiency thing would just turn out to be highest scoring as well.

I don't have any better ideas, but something like Best Loser, and highest scoring WR/RB would be three easy ones. Everyone has an RB and a WR capable of going for 150 and 2TDs any given week. Its just a crapshoot as to when that happens.

The rest of your team might suck, but if your RB goes off and you make $5 it'll buy some beers to soothe the hurt.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Ah, yeah it's definitely a useful list of items, didn't mean to sound critical of it. I think we can probably cherry pick a few that we like.

Our playoffs are three weeks, weeks 14-16, although week 14 is just the wildcard match for the playoff teams. Week 15 is the semifinals in which the three division winners play one another + the winner of the wildcard match, and then in week 16 is the final match plus the third/fourth place match. We pay out first through third places, and a consolation prize for the winner of the consolation tournament.

The playoffs page shows this nicely. Just note that the week 15 consolation bracket is wrong: the player who had a bye plays the lowest-seeded team that won in week 14.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Leperflesh posted:

My first impression is that a lot of these would wind up rewarding teams that are already likely to end in the money (top three), but let's do a quick rundown and test my assumption against the last year.


So, overall, a lot of these would be won by teams already contending for playoff spots with good shots at a significant payout (money for places 1 through 3, so two will finish out of the money and three in). But a few would have gone to other teams.

:goonsay: ezekiel put up 39.9 against the steelers

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Bloody posted:

:goonsay: ezekiel put up 39.9 against the steelers

Which week?

e. Week 10, so, irrelevant to what I reported.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 9, 2016

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Just read about consolation bracket winner getting 1.13 draft pick.

That might be something for the wildcard thing?

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Anyone remember just a few hours before kickoff when I benched Alex Smith?

He went over 200 yards with 9 mins left in 2nd. His average is 220.

This game is fuckin bullshit.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
Thats the alex smith I know.

The entire rest of the game was 60yds and an int.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Spermy Smurf posted:

Just read about consolation bracket winner getting 1.13 draft pick.

That might be something for the wildcard thing?

Hmm, being able to win extra draft picks is an interesting idea. Presumably the teams that need extra draft picks the most, are the ones that didn't make the playoffs this year... it's possible to go overboard with "equalizers" but a little here and there isn't a terrible idea.

I just noticed that the Titoons only spent one dollar on FAAB this year, and nobody spent all of it - the highest so far is the Chefs, who have spent $78. Six teams have spent less than $25, and three more spent less than $40.

Should our FAAB dollar amounts be lower? Or... I guess a prudent owner saves FAAB dollars for a rainy day. But then again, with salary caps, you can't actually blow a big chunk of your FAAB dollars anyway. I know for my own part, bidding very low on waiver players was a necessity not to preserve my FAAB budget, but to stay comfortably under my cap.

Hmm. Most teams' current cap usage is between about $195 and about $225, with a couple of outliers (BALLS is at 163, Garbage at 162). So I don't think that's it, either. Maybe there just hasn't been a player on waivers that was worth a big salary this year. Probably we don't have enough data to make a change one way or the other, yet.

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004
I think Lacy was the only real "big name" on the wire this year right?

The hoarding of FAAB dollars and a bunch of people being way under budget means no one will drop anyone who is high priced in the hopes they can pick them back up slightly cheaper.

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Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

It's gonna be like 20+ years before David Johnson is too expensive to keep, right?

Let's see, he's currently $8.

$8, $9, $10, $11, $12, $13, $14, $15, $17, $19, $21, $23, $25, $28, $31, $33, $36, $40, $44, $48, $53, $58, $64, $70, $77, $85, $94...


Yup. $48 in 20 years.

Do you guys think +10% a year is too low? The trouble is, higher than that and the players who start at like $30 are only keepable for a couple years at most.

The current system massively rewards identifying and successfully grabbing a future hall-of-famer before they become big. It also suggests that we're collectively severely underbidding on "lottery ticket" players. Sure, most won't work out... so you drop them, and use more of your FAAB budget, but most of us have plenty of that left. Occasionally one will make it big, and if we let another team get that guy for four dollars, they've got a lock on a big player for their entire career.

e. One thing would be to raise the "minimum raise" to two or three dollars, or use a geometric progression.

E.g., something like "first year kept: salary +10%, minimum $1. Second year: salary +10%, minimum $3. Third year: salary +10%, minimum $6. Fourth year: salary +10%, minimum $10. etc..."

Another thing many dynasty leagues do is put a maximum age on a contract. E.g., you can only keep someone for up to four or five years, and then have to drop them. Traded players keep their contracts. This would basically force some churn into the league, starting in a couple years, so we don't get dynasty teams with a lucky three cheap superstars permanently rostered.

You can even let someone slap a "franchise tag" on one and only one player, to keep them past their normal contract. Perhaps at an added cost.

All this is adding complexity of course, and maybe fishing for solutions to problems we don't have yet. Just musing it over today.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Dec 9, 2016

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