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This game is This poll is closed. |
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180 | 32.61% |
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212 | 38.41% |
| Good! |
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160 | 28.99% |
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Combat system actually owns How so? Even the people in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:37
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Trick Question posted:How so? Even the bads in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over. 
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Dec 5, 2016 01:38
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:so if you're good you'll never see a summon. The game gives you a few plot-related forced summons so you'll see most of the animations at least once. Otherwise? Yeah, they're entirely a handicap. Trick Question posted:How so? Even the people in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over. That is against large groups of foes. Against larger or smaller groups you've got more freedom. That said I did cool on it a bit by the end when the flaws became a lot more significant (i.e: frigging awful AI partners who get themselves killed constantly and really bad cameras in anywhere that isn't wide open.)
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Dec 5, 2016 01:39
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Trick Question posted:How so? Even the people in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over. Eh. It's more fun when mixed up with parries, blindsides, techniques, and magic.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:39
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Is there a list of the different product placements in the game? The guys camping out in Coleman tents and the Amex signs surprised me and I thought they were actually pretty cool and unintrusive
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Dec 5, 2016 01:43
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I don't really do the "hit n run" style at all, and I rarely get hit. I warp strike for attacks but I hardly use the warp points to recover or survey the battlefield or anything. I generally prefer weaving around groups of enemies and clumping them for big combos with endless airsteps or using the Greatsword critical attack (the big sweeping swing you get when you attack->delay-> attack again with the special sound cue). I feel like if you're doing the "hit n run" thing a lot you're missing some critical components on how the combat system actually works. You can totally melee everything all the time and barely ever take damage. The combat system is built in such a way that you can play super boring and autopilot everything while taking damage and healing constantly and still win, but if you really dive into the nuances that it has to offer it actually has a pretty high skill ceiling pissdude fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 01:43
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pissdude posted:I don't really do the "hit n run" style at all, and I rarely get hit. I warp strike for attacks but I hardly use the warp points to recover or survey the battlefield or anything. I generally prefer weaving around groups of enemies and clumping them for big combos with endless airsteps or using the Greatsword critical attack (the big sweeping swing you get when you attack->delay-> attack again with the special sound cue). I feel like if you're doing the "hit n run" thing a lot you're missing some critical components on how the combat system actually works. You can totally melee everything all the time and barely ever take damage. How far in the game are you? Later enemy formations pretty strongly punish you if you just wade in and melee. pissdude posted:The combat system is built in such a way that you can play super boring and autopilot everything while taking damage and healing constantly and still win, but if you really dive into the nuances that it has to offer it actually has a pretty high skill ceiling It absolutely has a high skill ceiling but it shines best against small-to-medium sized enemies. The larger an enemy group (especially if they throw in enemies who have special dodge requirements or are in an area where the camera shits itself) are ones where you're basically going to have to thin out the crowd first or else you'll get hit trying to attack. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 01:45
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Why are equivalent-level crabs so strong. Yes I am aware that they're pretty easy to block and even parry, but... the crabs. Why are they so strong. e: Also how do you do an airstep properly? I feel like I've done it lots accidentally but never when I actually want to. All the game tells me is after attacking to tilt the stick and hit circle. How long after an attack? Do I tilt the stick a certain way? What? I'm assuming my attack, not an enemy attack?
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Dec 5, 2016 01:47
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ImpAtom posted:How far in the game are you? Later enemy formations pretty strongly pushing you if you just wade in and melee. I don't wade in - there are tons of ways to mitigate taking hits and to effectively melee stuff all the time. If you auto-dodge/roll/air-dodge until you have an opening you can disable large swathes of enemies with the great sword and go nuts with Armiger or endless airstep chaining. Cyclone with Gladio is also incredibly useful for clumping enemies.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:47
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isk posted:Eh. It's more fun when mixed up with parries, blindsides, techniques, and magic. I don't see why people like the parries so much in this game - they don't do a lot of damage and they're really trivial to pull off? You can just hold that button forever and it'll work just fine. Removes all the fun from parrying. Techniques are useful, sure, but they're basically non-interactive, take a long time, and the damage ones don't do enough to make them worth it over the ones that just make your fighting better or heal you... and in my experience, the graviga one made dangerous packs of enemies more dangerous, not less so. Magic would have been fine if I didn't have to go three menus deep every time I wanted to equip or unequip it, or if the menus had been faster. And blindsides... I guess I never got good enough to do blindsides intentionally against all but the slowest jerks, you got me there.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:48
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bewilderment posted:Why are equivalent-level crabs so strong. Levels are honestly basically pointless as a measure of anything except "bigger # = probably higher stats." Lower-level enemies can hit incredibly hard and high level enemies can be complete jokes. pissdude posted:I don't wade in - there are tons of ways to mitigate taking hits and to effectively melee stuff all the time. If you auto-dodge/roll/air-dodge until you have an opening you can disable large swathes of enemies with the great sword and go nuts with Armiger or endless airstep chaining. Cyclone with Gladio is also incredibly useful for clumping enemies. So you're dodging damage until you see an opening and then going in for an attack. This is not meaningfully different from hit and run. In fact if anything you're pointlessly making it harder on yourself for no extra benefit. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 01:48
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So many people here would just shoot with guns in dmc
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Dec 5, 2016 01:49
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MMD3 posted:Since receiving Ramuh and Titan I have had the Ramuh summon prompt show up twice and every time I tried to hold L2 to trigger it it just wouldn't loving take... so I have yet to actually utilize any of the summons I've earned. You have to hold down L2 for like 40 loving seconds. I thought my controller was broken. One of those things Square doesn't even try to explain to the player. Trick Question posted:How so? Even the people in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over. Nah there's more depth to it than that once you really get deep into the game. And lets not pretend past RPGs weren't "select attack over and over until you need to use a potion" or every once in awhile it was "use this particular combination of materia to break the game". Combat in FFs has generally been pretty poor so having some exciting action is a huge step up even if its mostly pretty simple button mashing. It looks cool, you feel cool, and sometimes you really do have to use strategy or careful timing. Lots of people get tricked up by groups of enemies, but you can learn how to deal with them. Its just unfortunate that in order to get an FF with good action combat, we had to trade away good story. I mean most FFs are pretty confusing and a few are even pretty messy in plot (looking at you, FF8) this one really is uniquely terrible in how it communicates its drama. The plot is so full of holes that Swiss cheese isn't even an apt comparison anymore. There's more holes than actual plot. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 01:50
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I can survive fine on higher level fights, but my dipshit bros get one-shotted against lower level monsters and it's just annoying potioning them every few seconds.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:50
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The cameras shittiness really shows in the post game hunts/quests when enemies are 30x larger than you
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Dec 5, 2016 01:51
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Tae posted:So many people here would just shoot with guns in dmc Not really, no. Large groups of enemies absolutely require a different combat mindset than smaller groups because they tend to have enough frequent attacks going on that you can't just go in and respond, especially once they throw in the kind of attacks you have to manually dodge instead of auto-dodging. Clearing out snipers or other enemies who focus on interrupting means that you can go in and melee far more effectively and also means your stupid AI bros won't get pasted in a second.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:53
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socialsecurity posted:I can survive fine on higher level fights, but my dipshit bros get one-shotted against lower level monsters and it's just annoying potioning them every few seconds. Put some advancement points into making them stronger, then. Equipping two or three accessories can make a load of difference, as can the "everybody gains HP/vitality for their levels" and stuff. Also Ignis' has an ability to toss out free heals every so often. (NOT the self-heal thing everybody gets, its somewhere else in a different tree) Although no matter what I do Prompto only has like 600HP. Even though he's got two accessories, one is like +300HP, and meanwhile myself and Gladio have like 2k HP even without any accessories  Prompto buddy you gotta put some of that weight back on, you're too skinny now!
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Dec 5, 2016 01:53
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bewilderment posted:Why are equivalent-level crabs so strong. They are not that strong, just attack their weak point for massive damage.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:55
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My other complaint with the battle system is the lagtime it takes for Noctis to use a potion compared to the other characters that use it immediately while time freezes. Means that Noct's maximum health is slowly trickling away while he's recovering from hitstun.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:55
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ApplesandOranges posted:My other complaint with the battle system is the lagtime it takes for Noctis to use a potion compared to the other characters that use it immediately while time freezes. Means that Noct's maximum health is slowly trickling away while he's recovering from hitstun. Apparently Noct can straight-up go down and as long as you have a Phoenix Down it isn't game over. I was watching someone stream earlier and they died in a boss fight and just phoenix'd themselves.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:56
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The worst enemies to fight are those loving horses. Or the wasps with confusion. Jesus.bewilderment posted:Why are equivalent-level crabs so strong. FFXI payback
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Dec 5, 2016 01:56
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Gambling on Final Fantasy Monster Medieval Times battles is legit addicting. I can't stop. Those rewards are calling to me.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:00
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Tae posted:So many people here would just shoot with guns in dmc The thing about devil may cry is that you hit your button and your man swings your sword, or you hit the other button and he dodges. In this game you hold on the trigger buttons and hope, because if a thing is moving you ain't hitting it, warp or no warp. Zaphod42 posted:Nah there's more depth to it than that once you really get deep into the game. And lets not pretend past RPGs weren't "select attack over and over until you need to use a potion" or every once in awhile it was "use this particular combination of materia to break the game". Lightning returns had good combat, I'd say. I wasn't comparing the combat to other FF games when I said I didn't like it, I mostly don't like those other games either.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:00
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I edited it into my earlier post so it's lost: How do I actually airstep? What's the procedure? Somehow my interpretation of what the Ascension screen tells me is inaccurate because I am seeing no jumping or airstepping.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:03
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bewilderment posted:I edited it into my earlier post so it's lost: Airstep seems to only work with certain weapons. Try doing it with a one-handed sword and it should be really obvious.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:05
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sucks getting a quest to go back to a dungeon like an hour after you went through it, makes me want to completely avoid them until i get a quest sending me there, except some don't have that??
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Dec 5, 2016 02:07
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Trick Question posted:The thing about devil may cry is that you hit your button and your man swings your sword, or you hit the other button and he dodges. In this game you hold on the trigger buttons and hope, because if a thing is moving you ain't hitting it, warp or no warp. What? In DMC you can swing your sword on command but you can easily miss moving targets. And DMC totally has lock-on and... loving stinger? Are you really pretending stinger doesn't exist and isn't warp-strike? Its the same thing. High level DMC play generally involves using stinger non-stop to move around quickly to maintain combos. Exactly like XV! The only "hope" in this game is when you haven't learned how it works yet. At first dodges feel like hopes because you push them and you do nothing. As soon as you learn to hold dodge... the game works really well?
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Dec 5, 2016 02:06
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bewilderment posted:I edited it into my earlier post so it's lost: ImpAtom posted:Airstep seems to only work with certain weapons. Try doing it with a one-handed sword and it should be really obvious. Yeah slow weapons attack way too slow to actually combo quick enough to airstep. The basic sword is the way to go for airstepping, maybe spear. You press X to jump, then press O to attack in air, then press -> forward and O at the same time, and you'll hop around in mid air while attacking. You can hop from enemy to enemy if you use the directional stick to point around, or you can hop around and keep blasting the same enemy. Generally though I'm disappointed by air combat, there's not much reason to do it as it only leaves you more vulnerable, air-dodging doesn't really work and land-dodging is very easy to do. At least until I can get that final "infinite air-steps" unlock but its like 999 AP so that will be awhile I still do it sometimes because it looks cool  plus its really useful for attacking flying enemies, lets you combo on them mid-air. But its generally not a great move versus fighting on the ground if you have the option, which is lame.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:08
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Trick Question posted:How so? Even the people in the thread who like the game have basically said that you just use the warp and do hit-and-run attacks over and over. If you only warp and do hit and run attacks, you are not getting good grades across the board in every battle. Fighting well requires setting up opportunities to really wail on a target, and knowing when to stay defensive, and knowing when to strike even when you're surrounded, and knowing what to do when you are surrounded (which is to find any way to get the gently caress out of there you have hosed up you bad awful bad bad player). You have to be willing to move on foot to set up back strikes, switch weapons according to the situation of your targets, and also be willing AND able to fight without using the lock on. Noct's defense is literally a natural teleport dodge out of 90 percent of the dangers the game throws at him, so USE IT while you're trying to get your bearings. The MP cost is not that prohibitive even early on, and you can lower it dramatically pretty fast as well. There are very few battles in the open world, and even in set piece encounters, where holding down the guard button isn't useful while you're sizing things up. Use Techs. Techs are an invincibility window for Noct and are essentially a get out of jail card for bad situations. I like to use Gladio's big sword strikes, or Prompto's piercing shot. They chain well together and Gladio does ridiculous amounts of damage early on, helping to resolve troublesome encounters quicker. Regardless of whatever techs you prefer, have at least ONE one-bar tech ready for use (or pause the drat game to go into the menus and change someone's tech into one, if things are really desperate). Just remember to hold down guard after coming out of the Tech animations, in the event that Noct ends up in a bad place. Don't try to perfect dodge attacks in groups. It's too chaotic to time such a thing when you are surrounded and getting actively pummeled. This is an instinct that for me comes from playing Devil May Cry and the like. This game is not Devil May Cry. Perfect dodging attacks is best left to low numbers/single enemy encounters where you have less to keep track of, making it easier for you to read incoming attacks. Use magic. There's a lot of bitching about the magic system in this thread and people saying they won't use it because they don't like it. They are wrong. Magic can be ridiculously useful for all those times when people are whining about how large numbers of assholes are coming to wreck their faces and it's unfair and baw baw bawwwww gently caress that. Use magic, put a large flaming/electric/freezing crater on the field, and suddenly the odds in most fights are very, very favorable. Mixing magic for your containers is brain dead simple, and even modest magic buffs can take already super powerful magic crafts and make them beyond broken. I killed a level 38 boss in under a minute with a quintcast firaga followed by a teleport strike with a two handed sword, breaking the boss and flattening them so I could wail on them from behind with daggers for an endless chain of back attacks. S rank. Easy. Use Magic. If you're not going to use magic, the game has lots of tools available to accommodate you. All the weapons have different strikes, and some moves can clear the area around you/in front of you. Learn these attacks, and you can dive into groups with some more confidence.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:10
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Alright, a bit of searching hasn't really found much - how many tours are there in the game? Outside of the Prompto one at Old Lestallum, I've seen four - two with Ignis, one with Prompto and one with Gladio. I'm getting that they're location triggered but hunting down and resting at every campsite is gonna take a while.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:11
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Zaphod42 posted:What? In DMC you can swing your sword on command but you can easily miss moving targets. And DMC totally has lock-on and... loving stinger? Are you really pretending stinger doesn't exist and isn't warp-strike? Its the same thing. High level DMC play generally involves using stinger non-stop to move around quickly to maintain combos. Exactly like XV! Don't be willfully dense, it was a joke. In this game, if your target is moving at all, the warp strike will consistently miss, as will any other attacks.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:15
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Magic is, I think, really badly designed in a way that makes people not want to use it. The fact that it is a limited resource triggers people's "but what if I need it later?!" mindsets even if logically it's pretty trivial to bring your magic back up. It's the "but what if I need that Megaelixer?!" problem on a tactical nuke. The addition of the fact that high-level stuff uses 'rare' consumables makes it even moreso. The fact that it seems like it hurts your anime bros, even if it doesn't really, makes people hesitate to throw it into the middle of a fight even though honestly Prompto can survive being immolated. The fact it can oneshot bosses it either a plus or a minus depending on your mindset but if it's a minus then it is a huge "don't use it" thing even if logically the situation is exactly the one you should be using it in. It's also pretty poorly explained a lot of people don't seem to get how it works or how to install catalysts. Which I don't think is that complex but it throws a lot of people off. Having a tactical nuke in your pocket is pretty cool but it has enough limitations that I don't think it's a well-integrated part of the combat system even though the combat is clearly designed with the idea you'll drop a firebomb on enemies if they're too hectic. There's too much 'investment' in any individual bomb for people to use them regularly. (And alternately if you do know how to use them they're hilariously overpowered in every way. I don't think there's any better method of grinding EXP in the game than building an EXP bomb.)
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Dec 5, 2016 02:15
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Trick Question posted:I don't see why people like the parries so much in this game - they don't do a lot of damage and they're really trivial to pull off? You can just hold that button forever and it'll work just fine. Removes all the fun from parrying. Parries work that way on a lot of mobs, but some have a short counter window that'll result in damage taken if failed. One additional thing I like about techniques is that it's a low cost break. It also often results in aggro for the user which can set up blindsides. Agreed that the magic interface could be better.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:24
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ImpAtom posted:Magic is, I think, really badly designed in a way that makes people not want to use it. Magic in XV rules but I'd love a new menu or something to handle it. Like streamline it more or something than the way it is now.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:29
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ImpAtom posted:Magic is, I think, really badly designed in a way that makes people not want to use it. Yeah its definitely awkward. I really love the idea of drawing energy from the land, like tapping lands in MtG or using draw points in FF8, and then having a spell-crafting system is a fun way to mix things up and have different effects. In practice though like you said, I feel like saving my magic most of the time. Also it tends to be either kinda weak or massively overpowered. Sometimes I use magic and it clears a few weak guys and barely hurts the big guys, oh well, that's cool. Other times I cast one powerful quad-cast thundaga and I end up one-shotting a boss, uh, whoops! Kinda wish that boss fight had lasted longer now! So between both of those, I kinda avoid magic. That said, I do use magic, and I keep it stocked. As somebody said before, magic is basically the "I don't feel like doing this fight" button. And its annoying to have to fiddle with the menu and re-equip magic every 3-4 casts. Need a way to craft up like 10 casts of the same spell or something, 3 isn't enough. But the way the system works right now you can't really do that, with multiple flasks and a max of 99 of each element stocked and stuff increasing potency instead of casts... Oh one more thing, sometimes I cast magic and I think I'm locked on but it breaks or something and he just wastes the magic and tosses it over a hill, good loving job Noct. That magic was expensive! Or the other one is, sometimes you cast magic and get hit right as you're throwing it, and it uses the charge and puts it on cooldown but you don't actually cast anything. That sucks! Its okay that you can get interrupted, but it shouldn't put it on cooldown or use up your precious casts. Or maybe just cooldown. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 02:30
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Skeezy posted:Magic in XV rules but I'd love a new menu or something to handle it. Like streamline it more or something than the way it is now. A think you could fix it by: A: A better menu interface. B: Make it a dedicated option instead of taking up a weapon slot, so it's always there instead of something you have to manually equip. C (maybe): Give them some sort of dedicated refill. Once you use up a flash let it recharge when you sleep but without the bonuses from items, so you always have access to a weak fire/ice/blizzard spell but have to spend items to make strong ones. That way there's accessible magic and also apocalyptic insta-win magic.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:32
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ImpAtom posted:C (maybe): Give them some sort of dedicated refill. Once you use up a flash let it recharge when you sleep but without the bonuses from items, so you always have access to a weak fire/ice/blizzard spell but have to spend items to make strong ones. That way there's accessible magic and also apocalyptic insta-win magic. Yeah one of the sphere-grid upgrades should be "infinite cast spells at strength 40, 80" or something, instead of "increases all potency by 30, 50". Or maybe in addition to. That way you could use magic more often, without worrying about using your precious resources and casts, but it would also limit how powerful the magic was. Free-cast magic wouldn't have any quad-cast or double-cast or heal-cast meta upgrades, and would be limited to a weaker level than the magic you craft, but would be available at all times so magic is more of a constant thing than just a rare nuke. They would still have the cooldown though, and share a cooldown with your crafted spells, so you can't abuse it too much.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:35
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The only part of the story that I felt was honestly pretty compelling was Ardyn's backstory, and we don't get much of it. It's a neat twist and does a lot to inform that character. e: also, like I said earlier, it's one of the more bonkers moments in a story that desperately needed to get crazier and more interesting. Arist fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 02:38
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah one of the sphere-grid upgrades should be "infinite cast spells at strength 40, 80" or something, instead of "increases all potency by 30, 50". Or maybe in addition to. That way you could use magic more often, without worrying about using your precious resources and casts, but it would also limit how powerful the magic was. Free-cast magic wouldn't have any quad-cast or double-cast or heal-cast meta upgrades, and would be limited to a weaker level than the magic you craft, but would be available at all times so magic is more of a constant thing than just a rare nuke. I'd say "Well, maybe having an infinite use AoE magic attack might be too powerful" but it isn't like The Ring doesn't exist anyway.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:47
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ApplesandOranges posted:Alright, a bit of searching hasn't really found much - how many tours are there in the game? Outside of the Prompto one at Old Lestallum, I've seen four - two with Ignis, one with Prompto and one with Gladio. I'm getting that they're location triggered but hunting down and resting at every campsite is gonna take a while. There is another Gladio one near the volcano campsite. It has you get flowers for Iris. Another Prompto one in the southwestern campsite on the world map, on the coast. The one that is right on the rocks next to a fishing spot. Tae posted:So many people here would just shoot with guns in dmc "Dante's guns are so weak. This combat sucks."
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Dec 5, 2016 02:50
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