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dishwasherlove posted:Trolls are expensive, a large target and all it takes is an unlucky roll and it's dead. I personally prefer not to have all my eggs in one basket. They are fun though. Ah, yeah I had a feeling that might've been the case. (Didn't think it would be only one unlucky attack, though! Haven't had time to fully brush up on all the rules of orc units, yet) So judging from what I've just read in Da Mob Roolz, they're roughly as tough and hard-hitting as an orc boy? Seems OK - especially if I can keep a goblin minder on-hand. Speaking of which, could a goblin minder have both the prodder/spear and a bow? And effectively just use the prodder for the bonuses when near squigs (as well as for when things are desperate/an enemy engages him) and just use the bow for regular combat? Thanks for answering all these questions, by the way! (and apologies, as most of these are no doubt stupid/obvious ones!)
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Nov 29, 2016 11:30
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In case you missed it, GW just provided rules for all the old Blood Bowl teams online: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf
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Nov 29, 2016 21:12
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No Slann, gently caress them.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:55
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GW's vendetta against skinny frogs is the strangest thing.
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Nov 30, 2016 13:24
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Ugh, only Lord Kroak is in any way skinny, and that's because he's a mummy. I assume we won't be seeing these teams released as these are legacy rules?
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Nov 30, 2016 14:34
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Major Isoor posted:Nice painting! Certainly better than what I can pull off, I'm sure! ...Especially as I'll be painting my first models/minis (which is the correct term for WHFB/WH40K, btw?) on Saturday, but just ignore that detail, heh dishwasherlove posted:Trolls are expensive, a large target and all it takes is an unlucky roll and it's dead. I personally prefer not to have all my eggs in one basket. They are fun though. If I remember correctly, Trolls are your best bet because their regeneration rules mean that they don't suffer injuries and cannot die. I looked it up, and the rule specifically states "Trolls never roll for an injury after a battle" (according to Da Mob Roolz). They never advance, but the fact that they can't be killed or hurt offsets their steep price quite nicely, I'd say.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:10
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Major Isoor posted:Ah, yeah I had a feeling that might've been the case. (Didn't think it would be only one unlucky attack, though! Haven't had time to fully brush up on all the rules of orc units, yet) So judging from what I've just read in Da Mob Roolz, they're roughly as tough and hard-hitting as an orc boy? Seems OK - especially if I can keep a goblin minder on-hand. The troll is so expensive that you are very unlikely to ever have enough money to buy him after initial warband creation as other pressures will leech your gold. If you make the decision to hire him, he will be a huge target that will likely scare the poo poo out of your enemies and will do some heavy lifting for you but he doesn't gain experience so could lead to your heroes missing out on kills where they might get some benefit. The risk of the troll dying is much less than any of the other big guys though. He's unlikely to lose all three wounds and his regeneration helps keep him alive even if he does go down. It's not that hard for your enemies to get some flaming weapons though which cancels this rule and makes his life expectancy a lot more dicey. All in all I'd say it's a ballsy move to take a troll and you could have some fun with him, but it gives you fewer tactical options than taking a load of squigs.
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Nov 30, 2016 19:19
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TKIY posted:In case you missed it, GW just provided rules for all the old Blood Bowl teams online: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf At the same time I hope this is temporary. Some of those teams need changes badly.
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Nov 30, 2016 21:23
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Wizard Styles posted:I'm confused by this. They even seem to acknowledge that third party manufacturers kept the game going for the past years to some degree. It's GW, don't try too hard to apply logic to their decisions, you will just get a headache.
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Nov 30, 2016 21:55
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Kevin Roundtree, if I'm not mistaken about his name in a typical JcDent fashion, hired an actual marketing guy and is making good moves on behalf of GW. I am also scared and confused since I don't want to warm up to GW only to experience an another AM/Tempestus Scions moments. Related joke from this evening: "Play 40K and you won't have money for drinking" "But you'll have many reasons to do it"
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Nov 30, 2016 22:41
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Indolent Bastard posted:It's GW, don't try too hard to apply logic to their decisions, you will just get a headache. JcDent posted:hired an actual marketing guy 
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Nov 30, 2016 23:11
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What did I tell you?
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Dec 1, 2016 00:00
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I picked up the Skavenblight scramblers and i am halfway through the box assembling them. Do i need anything other than this box for regular games of bloodbowl?
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Dec 2, 2016 22:55
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Frobbe posted:I picked up the Skavenblight scramblers and i am halfway through the box assembling them. Assuming you've got access to a board and rules, you should be good to go.
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Dec 2, 2016 23:24
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Safety Factor posted:As far as models? The skaven starter is pretty solid and you're only missing two more gutter runners, a rat ogre, and maybe a spare linerat for certain team builds. Your other positionals (thrower, blitzer) are only 0-2 so you're good to go out of the box. You don't technically need any more models than you already have, but the starter teams tend to leave a bunch of spare cash laying around. I guess it lets new players get a ton of re-rolls? Cool, i'll skip buying more models until alternatives come forth at the same quality as this box (I read Forgeworld would also be doing blood bowl)
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Dec 2, 2016 23:33
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A quick question for those goons who know the secret handshake to receive access to forumware. Is this a normal going rate that you'd pay for a forumware reaver, or has this dude jacked the price through the moon? http://www.ebay.com/itm/S089-Epic-Space-Marine-Epic-40k-Forumware-Reaver-Titan-/122250792442?hash=item1c76b70dfa:g:WMEAAOSwo4pYQEbX
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Dec 4, 2016 03:03
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Got an introductory game of Blood Bowl in this afternoon. We played with the basic rules and teams from the new starter set, with a smattering of the advanced rules. The game is pretty dope and I can't wait for more stuff to come out. I'm digging the ork team right now. Any advice on how humans/orks handle, or what I can expect as far as new releases soon?
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Dec 4, 2016 22:31
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Reynold posted:Got an introductory game of Blood Bowl in this afternoon. We played with the basic rules and teams from the new starter set, with a smattering of the advanced rules. The game is pretty dope and I can't wait for more stuff to come out. I'm digging the ork team right now. Any advice on how humans/orks handle, or what I can expect as far as new releases soon? Humans are a pretty versatile team, where you play to your opponent's weaknesses rather than your strengths. So against Bash teams you should be thinking of using the passing game as a threat, against Dash teams you should be thinking of caging up. Human Blitzers are amazing (and get 4 instead of the 2 in the starter box) thanks to the extra movement they have compared to other teams' Blitzers. Orcs are pretty simple - pick up with a Thrower, cage up and move the ball down the pitch while grinding your opponent into the ground. I generally hand off to a Blitzer to score, so that the Thrower doesn't hog all the SPP. They don't have great skill options unless you roll stats and doubles. Next release is Dwarves, which are the more boring team to play as or against.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:35
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Reynold posted:Got an introductory game of Blood Bowl in this afternoon. We played with the basic rules and teams from the new starter set, with a smattering of the advanced rules. The game is pretty dope and I can't wait for more stuff to come out. I'm digging the ork team right now. Any advice on how humans/orks handle, or what I can expect as far as new releases soon? Orks are a bashy team, so you almost want to kick on the first half and play D, beat up the enemy team, and then receive the ball and score on the second half when hopefully a few players are KO'd or even injured, leaving their defenses open. Orks also generally use a very straightforward scoring strategy, the "moving cage". You pick up the ball with someone dependable, ideally with block, and slowly run them up the field. Then you move your linebackers and blackorks in order to form a square around the ball carrier, so nobody can even hope to strip the ball away from him. Its a slow moving strategy so you won't be doing any crazy 1/2 turn touchdowns like a skaven or elf player, but that doesn't matter. Orks often win the game with low scoring, 1-0 is pretty common. As long as you can get one touchdown and then form a very solid defense, you'll win. The biggest challenge for orks is probably teams like elves, who can often dodge right through your tackle zones, so you have to be smart about defense and use some key blitzes to take them down. As you level up you can develop a player to be a catcher with skills and try to build an ork passing game and confuse enemy coaches, or you can commit to the caged-ball strategy and develop better tacklers and some dirty-blow players instead. I find facing Chaos teams as Orks to be the most frustrating, because they can out-bash you and you're forced to try to play more like a human team. Course fighting Chaos is usually very painful for any team, you'll probably win but you'll probably get a few injured players; at least Orks are more likely to survive the hits. Humans are the most average vanilla team so you can kinda build them up to do anything based on the skills. They also generally play best to the weaknesses of their opponents. Against orks, humans are going to play like elves. Against elves, humans are going to play more like orks. Humans have very specialized roles unlike some other factions, which the advantage of having some fantastic starting skills. You can have a really good passing game as humans, where Orks have to kinda level up a few skills if they want to have a passing game without a huge chance of fumbling. As humans you wanna kinda fake out the other team, make them think you're going one way with a run, commit their defense to that side of the field, then either hand off or pass the ball and run it the opposite direction to find a hole to charge past and score. Alternatively you can try doubling up your linebackers and trying to score some blocks to push the other team out of the way. If you try to just do the caged-ball trick as humans against Orks or Chaos, you'll just get krumped, but it'll work against weaker teams like elves. Against stronger teams you'll have to try to play headgames with strategy so the enemy splits up his forces, if you do a caged ball you just give him one nice target to come attack. Skaven are already out and Skaven are the fastest team in the game. Gutter Runners have 9 MA which is insane. Skaven are so fast and so extremely offensive they can do running hand-off plays that score a touchdown in a SINGLE TURN. But in return they have somewhat poor defense other than the rat ogre, and are generally weak and easy to injure. So Skaven are kinda opposite to orks in that they want to get the ball quick before they lose players, and they generally end up in higher scoring games. Skaven v Skaven or Skaven v Humans is going to be a pretty high scoring match, more like 3-2 than 1-0. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 23:48
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So I saw a random video saying that GW is magically not poo poo anymore and that they're actually soliciting feedback. I also heard that the new Blood Bowl is out and is... not terrible? I'm scared and confused. What changed about BB, and is it good?
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Dec 5, 2016 01:51
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So I saw a random video saying that GW is magically not poo poo anymore
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Dec 5, 2016 02:18
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So I saw a random video saying that GW is magically not poo poo anymore and that they're actually soliciting feedback. GW is slowly recovering. They replaced a lot of upper management and the new guys seem to *get* what people like about GW products, unlike the last crew. But they're still far from perfect. They realize Age of Sigmar upset a lot of people and took some community rules and made them official to un-gently caress everything, and now lots of people actually like it? And they're releasing lots of cool new 40k content, drip-fed at a good rate, based on the kinds of subjects fans are crazy about (admech, genestealers, chaos factions, etc.) They're also intelligently moving back to their board games, as a way to introduce people to the hobby and get them a self-contained game that includes miniatures that can then be used to build a warham army, which is smart. They dropped most of their specialist games to focus on the better-selling warhams, but not having those has really bit them in the rear end, and it seems they're learning. Bloodbowl and Space Hulk are both back, which were both things that never should have ever gone away. Part of why both are back is because there's now digital games releases of both, so people can buy them cheap on PC, learn to love the games and rules with a handy computer UI, and then move to the board game. In the past GW has been loath to license any of their current games, and so has only licensed things that were out of print, which is dumb when they could cross-promote instead, but they've always been terrified that digital sales could cannibalize their bread and butter physical miniatures market. As their stock price plummeted and people got upset at the old management they changed their tune out of necessity, and for better and worse they've been licensing like crazy. But while that produced a lot of poo poo mobile games and stuff, it also made a bunch of really good PC games, and that's building interest in warhams, so its helping. There've been a LOT of warhammer and 40k based videogame releases this year, and more coming. Sadly the biggest release, Warhammer: Total War, is based on old WFB and not the new AoS, because back when total war started production the old crew were still in charge and were scared to let Total War have their new baby IP, so instead they gave them the out of print one  Anyways the new blood bowl is mostly the same old blood bowl, warts and all. The sculpts are new and look good, and there's a new box starter set and a new rulebook, and much much more coming from the sound of it. Very little has changed about the rules from the last release as far as I know. Only Orc and Human are out right now, as part of the starter set, as well as Skaven. Orks and Humans though are not sold standalone, which is awkward, and the starting lineups are kinda lacking and really call for some standalone releases to help you build up your roster. Beyond that, the rulebook has rules for most of the core teams like elves and nurgle, but there's no new minis for those, so you'd have to have the old ones. GW released free rules for the other old factions that weren't in the first rulebook which is very nice so if you do have old minis, you can still play with them. But they really need to get some more new minis out for people who don't, for the other factions and to fill out the rosters. The core bundle looks very attractive to me, a nice pitch board and some good minis and the rules and everything, but lots of goons in the GW sucks thread were complaining that it costs way too much. GW products do cost a lot overall, but that's also the GW hate thread so w/e. Making you buy the core rulebook seperate for extra money is kinda lame and very GW, although you could get by with just the rulebook and the skaven standalone, but then you'd have no pitch or tokens. The rules included in the core set are enough to get going for just human v ork matches, although don't include rules for SPP or leveling up or running seasons. They also just announced a new "snow pitch" standalone product, which is... really cool? Also they put out some new "get started" kits that are more expensive than the existing get started kits, but have much more units in them, and are a great value. And the last couple rulebooks they released seem to be priced decently? In summary: GW ain't perfect and its bits of plastic that cost you an arm and a leg, but yeah it really does feel like they're listening and the new CEO and crew are actually trying to do what fans want instead of telling them to get hosed.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:24
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I'm scared and confused. What changed about BB, and is it good? gently caress that skill.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:25
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So I saw a random video saying that GW is magically not poo poo anymore and that they're actually soliciting feedback. They're making a concerted effort to not be poo poo. Apart from addressing some of the long-term wish list stuff like specialist games and 'stealer cults, they're making a push with community outreach. There are daily painting videos on their youtube, amusing adverts for new products, and some of that old knowing self-awareness in how they talk about stuff. White Dwarf is back as a proper monthly magazine with actual give-a-poo poo content (and promotional freebies). While they aren't reducing prices on existing kits, the new ones are either upping what you get for your money or coming in cheaper. There's a long way to go to make up for the past decade of decline, but they have made some real strides lately. I forgot to say, they have introduce a limited print on demand for old metal models, and while Finecast isn't entirely dead yet it is firmly behind the product line's Fritzel hatch. All new character models are small sprue plastics now. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 03:07
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Good luck to them. Maybe I'll buy their stuff again sometime.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:16
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Midjack posted:Good luck to them. Maybe I'll buy their stuff again sometime. This is basically how I feel.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:38
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While they're better, they're still overpriced and their new models are CAD garbage. AoS even with the General's Handbook is an awful game and 40k has been terrible for a long time now and is supposedly going to be more like AoS starting next year. But I just bought Space Hulk so I'm a big dumb hypocrite.
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Dec 5, 2016 04:35
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The Space Hulk box is heavy enough to crush a child or a cat. GW is marginally, not magically getting better. Blessed Kevin Roundtree, the new CEO is trying to turn the ship around even if the old white man capitalist caricature Kirby is still on the board. They actually have a marketing person (and it's not an internal promotion) now! AoS is here and the fluff still sucks, but General's Handbook salvaged a lot (while also including my favorite "innovation" - non-random warlord traits). It is now a game I consider playing, though Atlas can probably go in more detail on why it sucks. 40K is still 40K in that the rules still suck and it's Marines all day long. There are rumors of impending Simarization, which can hardly make things worse. 1page 40k isn't that bad after all. The new releases are a mixed bag, like Geneztealers have awesome 80s mana as modeled in 2016 and great trucks, but the formation/detachment stuff might be making them OP. On the other hand Traitor Legions will be using detachments to bring Legion flavor back, so... The boxed releases are an interesting bunch. The Sigmarine vs. Blood Blooder starter has unique models and units (including Khorgorath, who we like to call Design Disaster), so it's a great starting point for those armies, since you can then expand on that core. The Kill Team release is a mixed bag, since the rules can definitely be better balanced (lol) and even the armies in the box aren't matched, pointswise. Bloodborne has old nerds complaining about the starting lineup and the vital Deadzone book is sold separately for EUR20 or as a cheaper app (which comes with an easy to use league tracker, orso I have heard). What did I miss...
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Dec 5, 2016 06:15
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JcDent posted:The Space Hulk box is heavy enough to crush a child or a cat. I just finished putting together my Space Hulk models. They are so incredibly over designed that I doubt I would even be capable of giving them a decent paint job. But fortunately they're colored plastic and it's a boardgame so I don't feel like I really need to. But loving hell GW did not want people repurposing the Genestealers in that box. Like I could get away with fielding the terminators in a Blood Angel army, but the Tyranids would look awful in a game of 40k. quote:AoS is here and the fluff still sucks, but General's Handbook salvaged a lot (while also including my favorite "innovation" - non-random warlord traits). It is now a game I consider playing, though Atlas can probably go in more detail on why it sucks. Random turn order, way too many dice rolls in general, to hit and to wound are both determined solely by the attacker, no one has any clue what legacy armies will get support, general lack of balance in points, every shield in the game has different rules.
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Dec 5, 2016 07:03
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I thought those are regular termies and Deathwatch: Kill Team stealers. At least they look like that. Sure, doppelturns are a bad thing, but most rules (inluding "are shield are different") are self contained in the unit profile, which makes for a much faster gameplay. Personally, I dislike fiddling witth weapon range poo poo and positioning. As for legacy armies, I guess you can tell which of them will be shitcanned by how boring their unit scrolls are!
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Dec 5, 2016 07:32
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JcDent posted:I thought those are regular termies and Deathwatch: Kill Team stealers. At least they look like that. They have bases integrated into the models for no loving reason, and the stealer bases are really elaborate and would probably look weird in 40k or even be considered cheating in a tournament with LOS or something. Some of them you could cut the bases off, but some of the stealer poses are just weird. Like crawling across a ceiling beam or a doorframe.  Thanks GW. Giving them a good paint job isn't too hard though if you watch Duncan's videos 
Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 09:33
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Are trying to tell me that you don't want your genestealers bursting out of the floor or creeping down bulkheads? 
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Dec 5, 2016 11:05
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ineptmule posted:Are trying to tell me that you don't want your genestealers bursting out of the floor or creeping down bulkheads? It works fine for Space Hulk but wouldn't make sense in a game of 40k. They'd also be a pain in the rear end to move and balance. Of course, the genestealers have never really fit in with the rest of the Tyranid fluff anyway.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:41
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Yes, I would love Genestealer Cult stuff a lot more if they didn't have any ties to nids. I'd also like hams more if it wasn't for nids. Zaphod42 posted:considered cheating in a tournament with LOS or something Tournaments are just a way for WAACs to outWAAC each other anyways. But I understand the complaint about bases now, I had similar reaction to new assassins, even if they are easier to repose. As for overdone minis, I hate painting in general, so anything above and over a plastic MK III marine is a horrible experience for me.
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Dec 5, 2016 15:59
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JcDent posted:but most rules (inluding "are shield are different") are self contained in the unit profile, which makes for a much faster gameplay I guess I have no idea how this is supposed to be a defense of not having universal special rules. In Kings of War, I check one spot for all the special rules and those rules never change. It's not like I'm an idiot who has to look up what Elite does every single time I field a unit with Elite. Doing it the way AoS does it means you are very likely to make minor mistakes with the rules because all of those shields are only slightly different and it would be very easy to mix them up. There's also the question of why there's a need for more than one way for a shield to work. It's a shield. Surely they all work about the same? But again, Kings of War does away with that altogether. Since the "to wound" roll is determined by the defender, anything like shield or armor is included in the defense stat. But AoS separates the "to wound" roll and a separate defender "armor save" roll for no real good reason other than cargo-cult design (there's always been a to hit, a to wound, and a to save roll!). Looking at the Space Hulk rules is actually interesting because it's just an opposed roll and the loser removes their model.
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Dec 5, 2016 16:39
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I'm a fan of not having to look up or to remember stats. And USR can go overboard real fast (hello, Rend and Shred, as well as the dynamic duo of Prefered Enemy and Hatred). As on the matter of shields, some of them are magical, some of them are bucklers, and so on and so forth. I have only watched like, one-and-a-half of KoW video, so I can't really say if the rules they have make armies stand out, but I'm sure that I'm not going to defend a GW ruleset any further. Back on the topic of GW trying to be better: the new Codex: Imperial Agents seems to be a wet fart that collects a bunch of non-army armies (Inquisitors, GK, LotD, etc) into some sort of allied detachment. The upside is that it will also bring us a (limited edition) resin SOB Cannoness. So, you know, two steps forward, one step back.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:28
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The cool thing is that we live in the future and a proper army building software will place all the convenient information you need, including stats and special rules, right on the sheet so you don't have to remember or look them up.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:39
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JcDent posted:I'm a fan of not having to look up or to remember stats. And USR can go overboard real fast (hello, Rend and Shred, as well as the dynamic duo of Prefered Enemy and Hatred). As on the matter of shields, some of them are magical, some of them are bucklers, and so on and so forth. I think it's a cool idea. A relatively cheap book that lets you take small allied groups/sampler forces without the necessity to buy multiple codex books.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:53
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I think it's a cool idea. A relatively cheap book that lets you take small allied groups/sampler forces without the necessity to buy multiple codex books. Agreed. One of my biggest problems is that while I like the idea of allying in units, keeping half a dozen books on hand for just such occasions is a pain in the rear end. This is super convenient.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:36
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Maaaybe you guys are right. I was probably expecting something new and more than just allied cutoffs. We'll see what happens when it drops. It surely is better than Blood Angels gaving three or four books now.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:55
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