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Lutha Mahtin posted:your previous post to this one indicated you are completely unfamiliar with indulgences, so i am definitely going to pay attention to your opinion about church reformers I did do a brief parts on the end of a course about indulgences. They're the thing where people basically "pay to win" but with the afterlife. Though in truth it had always kind of existed, look at all the monasteries that are still supposed to be singing about Charlemagne, but you were only really supposed to get indulgences for doing something important to the Church like crusading. Then it turns out that people are kind of crappy and the church can just sell them because the man in the fancy hat needs a new chapel. Obviously people didn't like that because of pre-existing tensions around how much they are paying and not getting into heaven guaranteed, the weakening of the Holy Roman Empire and the strengthening of the Dukes, philosophical concerns as regards papal rule and so forth.
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Dec 4, 2016 10:05
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People always forget that indulgences still exist  After the Reformation they became strictly non-monetary in nature and are given out for doing specific things like entering a confraternity, visiting a certain church on a certain day and receive Communion there, walking through a Gate of Mercy during a Year of Mercy and so on. These indulgences were huuuuuge in the Baroque and continued to be important for many Catholics well into the 20th century. Nowadays they are more of a niche thing, but the principle of the Church giving out indulgences is still very much alive.
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Dec 4, 2016 11:00
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System Metternich posted:People always forget that indulgences still exist Well considering I walked through the gates of mercy a few months ago and 2016 still continues to happen I think the indulgences need strengthening.
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Dec 4, 2016 11:03
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The indulgence is only designed to shorten your time in purgatory, not to put an end to this miserable year, sorry 
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Dec 4, 2016 11:09
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System Metternich posted:The indulgence is only designed to shorten your time in purgatory, not to put an end to this miserable year, sorry I was being silly, but as a semi-serious thing are there any places that are meant to produce additional good for the world in general and not just for the person doing them?
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Dec 4, 2016 11:39
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The Phlegmatist posted:I like this piece though cause Cardinal Albert just wants to chill with his fuckin' zoo and do cardinal stuff. Look he's even got a beaver.
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Dec 4, 2016 12:04
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Josef bugman posted:I was being silly, but as a semi-serious thing are there any places that are meant to produce additional good for the world in general and not just for the person doing them? there are orthodox religious who pray for the salvation of every person in the world--including demons--does that help?
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Dec 4, 2016 12:06
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HEY GAL posted:there are orthodox religious who pray for the salvation of every person in the world--including demons--does that help? I more meant places to visit, but thats cool to. Just as a quick thing, where do demons come from?
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Dec 4, 2016 12:11
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You can do pilgrimages for other people who aren't able to do so for whatever reason, so if “earning indulgences for other people by visiting holy sites“ counts as doing good then there you have it
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Dec 4, 2016 12:14
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HEY GAL posted:my favorite is the african grey, those things are as smart as human children You are vastly underestimating human children.
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Dec 4, 2016 12:21
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my dad posted:You are vastly underestimating human children. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented or determined fool.
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Dec 4, 2016 13:43
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Josef bugman posted:I more meant places to visit, but thats cool to. Just as a quick thing, where do demons come from? when a mommy demon and a daddy demon love each other very much
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Dec 4, 2016 17:57
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no, i lied, the cardinal's chandelier is my favorite part of that picture. i could see that in some hipster's house today, it is styling. (The reason for the tiny red-eagle-on-white-field coats of arms is that he is a Hohenzollern.)
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 18:03
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I went to a Bodensee castle a while ago, and almost every room had a chandelier in this style - antlers with stuff on them. The same castle also served to house the bishop of Konstanz when he was driven out of Konstanz at various points in history. It wasn't fancy enough for the 16th century prince bishop though, so they built a better castle right next to it. The old one eventually ended up as the residence of poet Anette von Droste-Hülshoff, who wrote a number of poems about the place.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:20
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Pellisworth posted:beer, neckbeards, and shitposting FWIW I swore off beer, I have a full red viking beard and well, shitposting is the cross we all bear  pidan posted:For our Nordics: This is amazing, thank you so much. Their sleeping god-king is very similar to a Danish myth, that of Holger Danske, who may or may not have been a vassal of Charlemagne! Josef bugman posted:I more meant places to visit, but thats cool to. Just as a quick thing, where do demons come from? I think last thread had a really good chat about this, try the search!
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Dec 4, 2016 18:40
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HEY GAL posted:no, i lied, the cardinal's chandelier is my favorite part of that picture. i could see that in some hipster's house today, it is styling. (The reason for the tiny red-eagle-on-white-field coats of arms is that he is a Hohenzollern.) Etsy has them, so I'm sure some hipster out there has one. Etsy also has stash rosaries that let you hide your weed in the cross because why not.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:41
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Tias posted:This is amazing, thank you so much. Their sleeping god-king is very similar to a Danish myth, that of Holger Danske, who may or may not have been a vassal of Charlemagne! We've got one of those too over in Britain. They're everywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_in_the_mountain
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Dec 4, 2016 23:00
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I went into the office room at my church today, and I noticed one of the books on the shelf was called Tough talk: Hard sayings of Jesus. I don't exactly know why, but that tickles me pink.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:38
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Mr Enderby posted:I went into the office room at my church today, and I noticed one of the books on the shelf was called Tough talk: Hard sayings of Jesus. I don't exactly know why, but that tickles me pink. If that book doesn't have the story of Jesus cursing the Fig tree for not producing fruit out of season then it's not doing it right.
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Dec 5, 2016 01:35
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Josef bugman posted:I do love the little hold outs of Paganism we still have in places, like how it's a point of pride for some of the Lithuanian colleagues at work with that they were the last people to convert to Christianity in Europe. Let me tell you about Lithuanians being the biggest shits... Poland accepted Jesus in 900s, and grew in size, influence and culture. Lithuanians resisted it until the end of XIV century, which resulted in Crusades Nobody Cares about, conquests we couldn't hold and being culturaly dominated by poles for hubdreds of years. The only benefit was increased cultural/religious tolerance* as pagan dukes tried to look nice and tech up from Europe. The first Lithuanian book in Lithuanian was the Cathechism in XVIth century. So yeah, we were the last moonworshipping savages to convert in Europe. *Most of the proud pagan last standers/pagans 2016 come from nationalist circles who don't care about stuff like that.
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Dec 5, 2016 07:40
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JcDent posted:*Most of the proud pagan last standers/pagans 2016 come from nationalist circles who don't care about stuff like that. Serious question: How do they reconcile being nationalists with being members of a pre-nationalism faith? The Danish pagan associations leadership is still taken over by members of a blót guild that are nazis in all but name. These good old blut und bacon folks claim that the faith is tied to nordic blood, despite the fact that no evidence for this can be found in the hávamál, nor in any saga or myth associated with the faith 
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Dec 5, 2016 09:51
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Tias posted:Serious question: How do they reconcile being nationalists with being members of a pre-nationalism faith?
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Dec 5, 2016 10:39
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HEY GAL posted:we've got nazis too, even though racism is a literal heresy in the Orthodox church. Constantinople can't tell proud Russians/Serbs/Romanians what to do! Who the hell do they think they are, a Pope? The true Orthodoxy is only alive in Russia/Serbia/Romania, thank you very much. Also, on Athos, I guess, but only when they agree with us. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 10:44
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Who shat in your cereal?
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Dec 5, 2016 11:17
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my dad posted:Who shat in your cereal?
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Dec 5, 2016 12:51
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HEY GAL posted:we've got nazis too, even though racism is a literal heresy in the Orthodox church. (A great way to sniff out the guys who believe in this poo poo when you find them on the Internet is to ask them who their bishop is. Since the core of the Orthodox Church is the bishop, bishops without heresy commemorate one another and keep track of one another. Some alt-right douchebag, when asked, will always cough and dissimulate and you just know what's going on.) Nazis gotta naz', I think that's pretty unavoidable when your faith is based out of eastern Europe in 2016, folks will twist rules to fit pre-existing biases. Also, you at least have going for you that orthodoxy is orthodox and not a reconstructionist faith, our fuckers will say "hemm yase, our priesthood hasn't existed for thousand years, it's allright for us to make up new rules stating that only white anglo-saxon protestants can become asatru" 
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Dec 5, 2016 13:01
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nazi pagans gently caress off
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Dec 5, 2016 14:51
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my dad posted:Who shat in your cereal? I was just (half-jokingly) trying to point out that saying that something is a heresy in the Orthodox church is a moot point. Technically, pelagianism, for example, is a condemned heresy, but apparently some churches and/or individual theologians openly teach something very close to it with no repercussions, because due to decentralised nature of the Orthodox church, there is nothing set in stone or at least enforceable across Orthodox oecumene. So when it comes to something related to ethnic church communities, there is no doubt that local synod decisions will be ignored by the majority of people.
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Dec 5, 2016 15:23
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Hell if I know. I outgrew my nationalist stance in relative isolation, so I did not have much contact with them until later. Also, spending the first gay pride parade in the Baltics outside the fence (with all the gay bashers) really helped me get more tolerant of sexual minorities.
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Dec 5, 2016 16:04
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The Phlegmatist posted:re: reformationchat Am I the only one who notices that this image compares this Cardinal to St. Jerome himself? If he asked for this specifically, it takes some serious cajones to commission a painting which visually places yourself in the image of a saint.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:07
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The Phlegmatist posted:Etsy has them, so I'm sure some hipster out there has one. Etsy also has stash rosaries that let you hide your weed in the cross because why not. I used to have a poison ring that I wanted to keep my migraine pills in, but then the pills started having to be foil-sealed to preserve freshness.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:14
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it's also cranach fanboying over duerer, if it helps and according to this webpage, depicting yourself as a saint to think about that saint's virtues was common then http://ringlingdocents.org/albrecht.htm so i could commission a painting of myself cosplaying as St Maurice (infantry), Barbara (blowing things up), or Macrina (dressing and acting like a dude)
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Dec 5, 2016 20:16
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After reading this thread, I now slightly regret not playing through FFXIV: Heavansward looking like catboy Martin Luther
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Dec 5, 2016 20:17
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HEY GAL posted:it's also cranach fanboying over duerer, if it helps Hmmmm. I've heard that some of the symbolism of Durer's Jerome in his Study is meant to point out the flaws of Jerome, and given that Cranach was a contemporary, I wonder if perhaps this was some super subtle criticism of the cardinal as well? He does, after all, have enormous horns hovering right over his head. 
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Dec 5, 2016 22:09
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CountFosco posted:Hmmmm. I've heard that some of the symbolism of Durer's Jerome in his Study is meant to point out the flaws of Jerome, and given that Cranach was a contemporary, I wonder if perhaps this was some super subtle criticism of the cardinal as well? He does, after all, have enormous horns hovering right over his head. 
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Dec 5, 2016 22:36
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HEY GAL posted:if it's meant to be somethng more than just a sick chandelier, horns back then don't just mean the devil, friend Is it... Is it the cuck meme?
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Dec 5, 2016 23:40
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Paladinus posted:Is it... Is it the cuck meme? meanwhile, http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/12/05/jude_law_s_hats_are_the_stars_of_these_young_pope_trailers.html
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Dec 5, 2016 23:58
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CountFosco posted:Am I the only one who notices that this image compares this Cardinal to St. Jerome himself? If he asked for this specifically, it takes some serious cajones to commission a painting which visually places yourself in the image of a saint. Yep, and actually it wasn't the only portrait the cardinal commissioned from Cranach of him as St. Jerome, either. Actually we have four of them that survived. Here's another one:  tag urself I'm the angry lion-dog creature Anyway it's an art form known as historiated portraiture that wasn't too uncommon during the Reformation. Cardinal Albrecht also had one commissioned from a different artist where he appears as St. Erasmus, and Dürer was sorta infamous for inserting himself into religious art that he painted as one of the characters. e: Okay I had to look up what beavers symbolized in medieval art, and, uh... Isidore of Seville posted:The beavers (castor) is so named from being castrated. Beavers are hunted for their testicles, which are good for medicine; when a hunter comes near they bite off their testicles to save themselves. So they represented chastity, since you have to metaphorically chew off your balls and throw them at the devil when he comes to cause you to lust. Good stuff, Europe. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:46
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SirPhoebos posted:After reading this thread, I now slightly regret not playing through FFXIV: Heavansward looking like catboy Martin Luther This fuckin post...
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Dec 6, 2016 01:22
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my university choir has, i just learned, decided to schedule our concert on the holiest night of the year. once i've calmed down from apoplectic rage, exactly how much poo poo should i raise over this?
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Dec 6, 2016 01:33
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