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I don't know why I'm surprised that Nolan of all people is taking a relatively simple premise-starting point and launching it into the loving stratosphere. It's Person of Interest all over again.
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Dec 5, 2016 11:34
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p disappointed that the robits didn't switch the bulpups to semi-automatic and one shot kill every human with deadly precision like a super intelligent android should
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Dec 5, 2016 11:48
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So, uh. I was watching the show on HBO Nordic and I had the subtitles on because sometimes I have a hard time telling what some words are (the sound mix isn't perfect), and this happened: It points to a small island in the Spratlies. I think it's just the translator having fun... but Bernard did talk about "going to the mainland." Also re: Dolores's death scene, I kept looking at the Moon and wondering why it looked so bad, like it was just a light hanging in the back. Well, turns out it was!
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Dec 5, 2016 11:50
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Antti posted:Stuff nice!
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Dec 5, 2016 11:52
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NoDamage posted:Amazing how defensive people get about their TV shows. People are getting defensive because the majority of goons criticizing the show are giving retarded reasons. There are valid criticisms to make and a few have made them, but the majority of what I am seeing is people who just completely missed obvious things or completely failed to understand what is actually going on in the show.
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Dec 5, 2016 11:55
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Well, that should have been about five minutes longer at the end there. Overall a really great season that was kept from true GOAT level by the amount of secrecy and focusing on mystery above character way too much. But season 2 could be incredible, although I have no idea what it would look like right now.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:08
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Caufman posted:Felix is a good guy. I think not. I think he was essentially a corporate spy from ground zero. He got a low level QA job, saw the wake-up scripts put in by 'Arnold,' then programmed a whole narrative about her escaping. He was always in control while acting like the scared hostage. That's my take anyway. I'll be kind of surprised if I'm wrong. Had the love for her daughter not pushed her off-script, she would have probably delivered herself to a competitor for DELOS. It also makes the plot with the QA guys way, way, way less stupid. Also I am totally looking forward to Samurai World. My greatest disappointment this whole season was not having Maeve go into the testing room and tell all the ninjas to cover them.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:16
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nopants posted:Host a Trevor has installed Negan as feudal ruler of the post acolypitic wasteland... This makes sense if you've been watching that show actually. The only reason nobody just loving shoots Negan is because their loops won't let them. Seriously I've never seen a character survive entirely off of plot armor before. There's not even in-universe prophecies or anything to cut it slack. Holy poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:17
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If William was already aware of his darker side as show in this episode, what was the point of MiB killing Maeve and her daughter and his speech about that waking him up?
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Dec 5, 2016 12:18
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I read through like 4000 pages of this thread as I was catching up on the show. It was fun reading all the William=MIB and timeframe theorizing and initially thinking it was complete nonsense and then seeing the tide shift and shifting along with it as I watched the show. They had to throw in a lot of necessary character shift in episode 10 to justify it, though. Changing the new logo into the old one in post-production as William arrives at the park was the smoking gun, in retrospect. One thing I kept reading when people were theorizing that I think never pans out is that people have these really convoluted theories on how this and that character will appear out of nowhere and do stuff, or we'll get this brand new character doing this and that. Thing is, storytelling doesn't work that way. If you're 30 minutes into an episode of CSI, the killer is going to be someone we've already met. No new major characters are going to appear out of nowhere in episode 7, 8 or 9 of a 10 episode season. Charlotte Hale was introduced in episode six and didn't play a major part in the narrative (to me the major characters would be Ford, Bernard, MIB & William, Dolores and Maeve). That's also why William=MIB fundamentally makes sense, because if MIB is going to be someone other than his own singular character, it's gotta be someone we already know, so it's gotta be William (maybe Logan, but that would be poor writing). Still lost my poo poo when it was 100% confirmed on screen though. All the major players were introduced in episode 1. Even William, as it turns out. And almost all the secondary characters were in by episode 2 (Lawrence, Logan, et al.). My biggest problem with the story is Felix and Sylvester, but even that kind of flies if you think Delos's corporate culture encourages and breeds that kind of incompetence. Felix really should've freaked out and gotten killed for it when Armistice and Hector went rampant though. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 12:20
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radlum posted:If William was already aware of his darker side as show in this episode, what was the point of MiB killing Maeve and her daughter and his speech about that waking him up? I believe that was more of a seeing if there was any humanity left at all, if he was evil enough to do something that inhumane, rather than just seeing if he was bad at all.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:24
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Blazing Ownager posted:I think not. I think he was essentially a corporate spy from ground zero. Hold up, Felix was the one who gave her the information about her daughter's whereabouts. That would not help get her out of the park.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:39
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Yeehaw, we're going to Shogunworld! I do hope we get to see some kind of factional conflict erupt.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:53
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Antti posted:So, uh. I was watching the show on HBO Nordic and I had the subtitles on because sometimes I have a hard time telling what some words are (the sound mix isn't perfect), and this happened: Ah yes, but what are these coordinates on Jupiter or Mars?
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Dec 5, 2016 12:54
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Antti posted:So, uh. I was watching the show on HBO Nordic and I had the subtitles on because sometimes I have a hard time telling what some words are (the sound mix isn't perfect), and this happened: There was also an announcement in Chinese this episode, the first we've heard. I just assumed that was because English and Chinese are probably going to be the international languages of the future, but Westworld being built on land reclaimed from the spratlys would connect it... and an interesting solution to the south china sea crisis.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:57
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In which Westworld hosts go to war with Samuraiworld hosts and Dentistworld hosts. Circusworld sits on the sidelines.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:57
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Yeah, William in general sort of embodies the true westworld notion of what level would you go if you could do anything at all. We see him from entrance to seasoned player, so he is basically the closest we have to an average relatable person. Just in general, it is interesting to think about the idea of visiting a westworld; because I think most people consider themselves to be moral and rational people, but look at our behavior when there are no checks. I am thinking in even simple rudimentary games like GTA where most of us go on long killing sprees because we can, and we are likely to never experience anything like that. Obviously westworld takes that notion to the nth level. The only real problem is that yeah, the show kind of rushes Williams plot along at the end for the twist. We go from white hat to child killing soulless black hat in essentially a montage. There were a few sporadic hints of William getting worse, but the show just sort of says that losing Dolores full fledged sent him along to westworld sadist. I mean fine I guess, but it didn't come across as well as it could have. I think even most of the guests would be revolted at the behavior if they were actually confronted with the fact the hosts are sentient beings who can feel just like humans. I don't know what levels robot tech is outside of the park, but I am going to assume far less sophisticated. I guess, I am interested to see if this is a whole Ford moral theory thing mentioned by the creator pans out. That would be a different angle than the pretty common robot rebellion, or the robots are better than us because reasons.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:05
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Gonz posted:Circusworld sits on the sidelines. This whole project was just a way to get us a new season of Carnivale
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Dec 5, 2016 13:17
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In Wokeworld, does the Player Piano get to choose what it wants to play?
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Dec 5, 2016 13:20
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Chomposaur posted:I didn't find the ending disappointing, but I do get where you're coming from -- I think this season suffered from too many characters with mysterious motivations (or motivations that were scripted by other people). I have a lot of hope that next season will be better in that regard, since they've laid all the cards on the table and the hosts now have agency. How can Delis have control over the park if multiple humans get killed? This is straight up SWAP team and FBI taking over situation. You can say oh this is happening in Mars and there is no FBI, but that doesn't mean Delos can control the situation or even keep the park open. I also don't have confident the showrunners can have a good followup to s1. The action sequence is clearly the worst part of the show. And they are going balls to the wall action next season?
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Dec 5, 2016 13:22
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I was starting to get a little tired of Dolores's constant jumping around randomly, but it was justified and the end of the episode was just amazing. Exit Music is one of my favorite songs and absolutely perfect for the end of this episode. As for season 2, I hope the show is willing to evolve with the story. I'd expect it to be more of an action packed robot murder fest, but who knows. If they insist on keeping the same format and having a similar mystery that takes a season to unravel just because that's what S1 did, that will be terrible. That's why lost went to poo poo, I hope we learned something in the last 10 years. This thread was the GoT thread on steroids during the season, so if that trend continues, I expect it to become literally the worst thing on the forums during the off season. Enjoy!
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Dec 5, 2016 13:26
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basic hitler posted:I'm not through with the finale yet, but i have to say that so far Evil Board Director Lady is the worst part of this show clocking in at a very drat boring villain in a show full of interesting better written bad guys. Yeah I said it after she show up the first time. Can she act different expression besides smug? You know she will return too since she is a cheap nobody actor. However every Maeve is still the worst part of the show.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:40
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I think I understand how the QA guys can hear runaway AI, roll into a room and not pull the trigger on every meat job they see immediately. There were never any humans, just robots all the way down.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:52
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Quick Draw McGraw posted:They've left themselves lots of outs/open possibilities for various things, including Ford's death itself. The Samurai also has to speak Eng and Chinese so what's point. The "Eastworld" should be mostly focus on Wuxia mythos and legends to cater to its demographic.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:52
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OAquinas posted:There's a clip on the website that gives an address for a movie clip showing the location of her tablet, and another clip with her saying "...hello?" Calling it right now, Elsie is going to reappear in Season 2 and then at some point we'll discover that she's a replicant.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:55
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I probably missed something, but what happened to Logan? Did he just get sent off on a horse to die from exposure? I'm going to re-watch the last two episodes in any case. Hector and Armistice going hog wild with P90s was the best. And William getting all of his gear from random mooks that he's killed over the years. And Elsie and Stubbs are gonna be teaming up with Ghost Nation for reasons.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:57
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mng posted:I probably missed something, but what happened to Logan? Did he just get sent off on a horse to die from exposure? I'm going to re-watch the last two episodes in any case. i suspect the park doesnt let guests die of exposure and probably go pick them up
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Dec 5, 2016 14:02
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:i suspect the park doesnt let guests die of exposure and probably go pick them up Well they should in this case 
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Dec 5, 2016 14:06
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Blazing Ownager posted:I think not. I think he was essentially a corporate spy from ground zero. You have to have robot sex with a host in the fire to convince him go with you.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:08
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It might be incredibly obvious, but I've just realized that all of the hosts that were stored downstairs in the creepy basement were the ones that had started to gain consciousness and then went insane. So are they now all fully conscious/sentient? Is the fact that Dolores gained sentience enough for them to all suddenly get there too?
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Dec 5, 2016 14:12
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They were also all lobotomized so who knows.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:14
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:The robots would get murdered super quick. If we have progressed far enough to cure all diseases in the Westworld universe, you know we have some crazy weapons too. Also there wouldn't be any Hague convention stuff stopping us from using all our worst weapons against robots. I think it would be more complicated than that, unless President Cyber Trump is in charge I think an island of robots saying "We're intelligent creatures and we demand rights" would become an intensely profound debate Certainly just bombing the park when they have no way off and they aren't going to be going all skynet (because they don't work like that) would probably not be option one, especially if they don't murder all the guests (the board of DELOS though, I think most people could come to understand that) Can you imagine the reactions of all the people (well the ones who don't retreat into denial) who've been to the park and done horrible things to these life sized video game characters when they find out they were thinking, feeling creatures? Sizemore is a doofus but he had it right in the very first episode, there's no reason to make the hosts nearly as intelligent or adaptive as they are override367 fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 14:27
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Pixelante posted:Have to say that the twist with Dolores' death scene being a theatrical performance for the board was absolutely fantastic. Brutally stripped the moment of significance in the space of a single second. The scripted "seeing beauty in the world" line was really heartbreaking for that reason. It was great. The sudden artifice of it slaps you in the face. An honest question: would Ford actually kill himself? He's a lot of things, but above a lot of them he's an Egotist. I mean, I doubt they'd do something like, "the Ford who died was a secret copy from his lab," because Anthony Hopkins is expensive as gently caress and I got a "one and done" sense from him here. But his character is super compelling and narratively important. My current baseless speculation is that he lives on through some digitized Ghost in the Shell simulacrum of himself. A previously-unknown host will show up named Tod Forberr. Or Bert Rodorf. Or Fred R. Robot. He's kind of Ford, but cheaper and not 78.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:33
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One wrinkle that probably will be investigated more in S2 is that Arnold was a once-in-a-century genius who came up with advanced AI that could be plopped into a convincing humanoid frame, and the secret sauce of that tech has been kept hidden from the world and used for entertainment purposes for over three decades now. The park almost certainly has to be placed so that it's not very dependent on any government because that sounds like the sort of thing that gets eminent domain'd into military or other uses by a state actor very quickly. That's what the whole industrial espionage side plot was about : Delos doesn't even have the secret sauce themselves because Ford has it all behind his lock and key. Arnold didn't even want the park in the first place, but the park was something that Ford had to agree to so that he'd have the independence and resources to fix the big mistake. You imagine yourself what would happen if Disneyland came up with something crazy advanced like the holodeck and then held all the rights to it for over thirty years and never let anyone else do anything with it, even altruistic things like allowing doctors to train on perfectly accurate, living, breathing human facsimiles. There'd be a lot of political pressure, there'd be many attempts to leak and steal the tech. With the parks you can keep the tech inside the park so that it can't be removed and reverse-engineered. *world is essentially an independent nation-state, a fortress island protected by an enormously influential corporation. Disney's company town was small potatoes in comparison.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:38
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So season 2 will be the second half of the movie. The remaining park staff vs robots and the remaining guests vs robots but sadly no yul brinner.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:45
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drunkill posted:So season 2 will be the second half of the movie. The remaining park staff vs robots and the remaining guests vs robots but sadly no yul brinner. I thought Ed Harris was playing the Gunslinger? They dropped the Wild West Terminator? Haven't seen the series yet, but might give it a shot, highly dependent on there being some kind of unstoabble gunslinger waiting at the end though.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:49
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pick up the gun - william 'man in black' hicks
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Dec 5, 2016 14:52
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:i suspect the park doesnt let guests die of exposure and probably go pick them up Yes, I think the park is designed to try to keep the guests alive, but the primary way they do this may primarily be through the hosts and their Samaritan reflexes. William has been taking Logan further and further out while killing all the hosts in their way, so it's believable that Logan is remote enough that he dies of exposure or thirst before a rescue can reach him. It's also possible that Logan does not die at the park. He does make it back alive, but still loses or concedes the company to William. Or he spends the next thirty years surviving in the wilderness and learning the true meaning of life.
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Dec 5, 2016 14:58
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Thoughts after sleeping on it: I appreciate when a show is willing to end a season by blowing everything up. I was afraid for a while there, like when they revealed Maeve's rebellion was entirely planned, that we'd end up back at the status quo at the end of the season, just with a couple of hints that "maybe things aren't quite the same." But nope. Blow up the status quo. Roller coaster ride into the next season. Good poo poo. Xealot posted:An honest question: would Ford actually kill himself? He's a lot of things, but above a lot of them he's an Egotist. I mean, I doubt they'd do something like, "the Ford who died was a secret copy from his lab," because Anthony Hopkins is expensive as gently caress and I got a "one and done" sense from him here. But his character is super compelling and narratively important. We do have the dangling thread of whatever host Ford was building in that basement workshop. It might well just be a host version of himself who'll just live peacefully with the family he built and we'll just get a Hopkins cameo at some point next season. It does leave the door open that Ford didn't actually die but let a host version of himself take the bullet, but I got the feeling that he felt like his rebellion needed a "blood sacrifice" just like Arnold's. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 14:59
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Kithkar posted:Uh, the website just became A Thing.
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