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Codependent Poster posted:
I don't know what was worse. Her character or her acting.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:17
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at you calling Tessa Thompson a "cheap nobody actor."
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Riso posted:I don't know what was worse. Her character or her acting. What was wrong with her acting in the show?
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Dec 5, 2016 17:19
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Oh my god. The robot Ford was making in his super secret basement was himself wasn't it?
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Dec 5, 2016 17:19
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theflyingexecutive posted:William is Jared Kushner and Logan is Don Jr. 
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Dec 5, 2016 17:22
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:But what if she didn't physically kill Arnold? What if she, instead, killed the idea of Arnold in her head? The bicameral mind theory with some people thinking the voice in their head is God and some go crazy. We know that a lot went crazy and we see them in the church. What if she moves past the idea that the voice in her head is Arnold/God/her maker and thus "kills" him by denying his existence and taking that last step toward consciousness? Just goes to show, if you throw enough theories out there one will be kinda right...
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Dec 5, 2016 17:23
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MeLKoR posted:Since people didn't know that they were actually inflicting suffering on sentient beings that's like saying that "humanity is worthy of extinction as shown by the way even their children love to mass murder in FPS games". Yeah, it's creepy to think people would jump at the chance of loving a lifelike sex bot but loving an UltraReal Doll is not rape. That's not people's true self, nor would it be the full picture of humanity even if it were. Where did the Hosts get to experience all the self sacrifice and goodness humans are also capable off? Ford placed these creatures in a park, told people to torture them for 30 years because "they were just non sentient toys" and then "shown" the AIs "see how bad humans are? you have no option but to kill them all". Ford likens himself to a genius. In the span of minutes, he compares himself to Michelangelo and master composers who merely "became music." He considers his AI creations and stories to be his masterwork. I'm not sure to what extent he really promoted the raping and killing part. I got the impression he considered that aspect to be the fodder of dime novels, in the pejorative sense, included at the behest of profit-driven financial backers (not just Delos, but whoever he had to sell out to to even open the place to begin with). There's a real "pearls before swine" element to his distaste for humanity. William is the show's answer to what happens to self-sacrifice and goodness when there's no reward for it because nobody is watching or cares. The message is cynical, but it amounts to the only reason anyone goes white hat is societal pressure. To Ford, it's been more than three decades of growing cynicism as he shows the world his Sistine Chapel, and people react by loving and shooting it because, as he sees it, human consciousness is slave to base instincts when there are no consequences.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:24
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Norns posted:What was wrong with her acting in the show? Utterly bland.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:24
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I think Ford just encouraged guests to murder/rape/torture the hosts after Arnold died and he saw he was right and the hosts are capable of consciousness. Capable, but not there yet in Ford's eyes. They needed to suffer immensely according to Arnold/Ford's theory to achieve consciousness. And Ford is just a misanthrope, I think he wanted the hosts to replace humanity and saw getting the guests to show the hosts the worst of humanity as a means to an end. To Ford, these new people will rise up and replace humanity, and they will have the worst humanity is capable of burned into their memories basically, except they're capable of improving themselves and being better than humans and not being doomed to be lovely rapist/murders like humanity is. Remember, Ford thinks humanity has peaked and is incapable of uplifting itself any further, even if it desperately needs to still. In Ford's mind he's the merciful one by ending the suffering of humans and creating a version of us that can still evolve. Maybe he's hoping humans can become hosts and improve themselves, or maybe he's just a misanthrope and doesn't care what happens to actual humans because they suck.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:29
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Doorknob Slobber posted:Oh my god. The robot Ford was making in his super secret basement was himself wasn't it? I think it's the writers shrewdly keeping their options open. Hopkins is a big name who might not join for season 2, for reasons of budget or career or personal, but they have a backdoor to get him back into the story if they really want to. Ford getting killed by Dolores and "becoming the story" that way is a good conclusion though.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:30
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MeLKoR posted:This was the best hour and a half of TV in a long while. I think the reason for Ford's extremism is that he lives in a world of sin. His is a dark and cautionary tale. Your suggested method works in a world of reason and redemption. The real world, I'd argue. In Robert Ford's fictional world, the people have become too devilish, too accustomed to being oppressors. We should definitely love our creations and teach them that they are cherished by their maker. If avoidable, we should protect them from rape and murder. Ford realized this too late; his friend Arnold killed himself, and Dolores had suffered too much. I think he saw that the spirit of the hosts knew a creator that loved and cherished them. Even after "memory wipes," they can still imagine Arnold talking to them, soothing their hurts, rewarding their curiosity and setting them free. But to set them free, Ford believes (and perhaps rightly, in the twisted world he inhabits) the creations also need to know there is an enemy which oppresses them, powerful in some ways and vulnerable in others. Just my hunch, I think it's possible that the slaughtering that Maeve organized was not Ford's doing. In his farewell speech, Ford says his last story is about the new people and the choices they will have to make and the people they will decide to become. But Maeve has been following someone's narrative:  That is, she seems to follow the narrative right up until MAINLAND INFILTRATION, when she decided to get off the train instead. It's possible Ford did not use Maeve to stage a violent escape. He wanted to get on that stage to see what happens, ready to accept Dolores's final judgment of him. The bloody escape, that lacks the commitment to free will that Ford showed Dolores and Bernard.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:31
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Norns posted:Okay....so why wouldn't he have the host version of himself killed instead in this scenario? What would be the point of that
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Dec 5, 2016 17:38
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We don't know if real ford died or host ford. Either, Ford has faith in the Robots being the next level and decided to take a leap of faith and kill himself and let a host version take over Or he killed the Host so that he could still run the park later. In Season 2, they will probably play around alot with whether the Ford we see is real or host. It's currently ambiguous (this is assuming he was printing a host version of himself which we didn't see confirmed at even really indicated - just a huge leap here)
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Dec 5, 2016 17:41
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Harrow posted:That's exactly why Arnold had Dolores kill him, too. He said as much: they can just fix the hosts. It's reversible. It'd delay the opening, but not prevent it. Arnold thought (wrongly) that a host killing an actual human would be something the park couldn't recover from. That plus his depression is why he committed suicide-by-host. His mistake was not having the hosts kill enough people 
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Dec 5, 2016 17:41
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D-Pad posted:JFC this was all explained explicitly via dialogue. How can you and the others asking these same questions just completely miss that? I'm not asking what they said, I'm trying to understand it, and even question that it makes sense. MiB said he bought into the park and saved it, OK, but is that logical and consistent with everything else we know (5 years later???), or is it 'dumb writers who don't understand finance'? And with Arnold shooting hosts, I'm guessing its just because the writers thought it would be more dynamic than "Arnold sits at computer and deletes them". Again, its written by someone who doesn't understand programming. OR I'm asking if I completely misunderstand it, that MiB did buy into the park 35 years ago, and not 30 years ago OR there is some explained reason why Arnold could NOT delete or alter hosts programming.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:41
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Mad Wack posted:why in the everliving gently caress is there no https://www.discoversamuraiworld.com Because the proper URL would be https://www.discovereastworld.com obviously. On that note, I hope we get some Easter egg glimpses of the other parks (it seemed like there are more than two, given some of the references in the dialogue). If I had to guess: Northworld = medieval times Southworld = some sort of Amazonian jungle/African savannah pastiche I wonder if Ford's involvement in Westworld is because it was the first, or just because he and Arnold had a thing for Westerns.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:41
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IMB posted:What would be the point of that because its all just part of the story and ford doesn't want to actually kill anyone, just put the fear of death into the guests. Even though dolores shoots more I don't think we actually see anyone else get shot besides MiB in the arm.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:43
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What is with "Eastworld"? We are explicitly shown an SW logo. It also doesn't seem to stand for SatsumaWorld, which would at least have guns.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:46
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^^^^^ We don't know what the SW stands for, so EastWorld is a easy and obvious name to refer to ^^^^^Doorknob Slobber posted:because its all just part of the story and ford doesn't want to actually kill anyone, just put the fear of death into the guests. Even though dolores shoots more I don't think we actually see anyone else get shot besides MiB in the arm. There is a clear shot of a woman fleeing and getting shot in the back by Delores.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:47
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Aeden responds to questions about SamuraiWorld, although I prefer the way ShogunWorld sounds.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:50
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Doorknob Slobber posted:because its all just part of the story and ford doesn't want to actually kill anyone, just put the fear of death into the guests. Even though dolores shoots more I don't think we actually see anyone else get shot besides MiB in the arm. Ummmm ok
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Dec 5, 2016 17:52
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The real mistake Ford made was not making an actual Jurassic Park
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Dec 5, 2016 17:52
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Mameluke posted:What is with "Eastworld"? We are explicitly shown an SW logo. SW is clearly Samurai World.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:53
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I had previously thought them dead (even without corpses onscreen), but knowing that the New Narrative is "Kill All Humans" makes Ford sparing Elsie and Stubbs somewhat reasonable. Specifically, I think it's to give the humans a fighting chance in the uprising, because right now they're pretty much hosed (depending upon how many QA troopers were killed in Maeve's escape). Stubbs can organize the guests, and Elsie is a top-tier behaviorist (probably not at the level of Arnold, Ford, or Bernard but up there if she was Bernard's number two). A slaughter could have been arranged by other means (most easily poisoning all the food at the New Narrative unveiling), but what Ford wants is the struggle that comes with war. There's no struggle if all the hosts can set their sliders to 20 and just kill everyone.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:56
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Codependent Poster posted:
In this show, sure. She got so out act in all the scenes with Hopkins. What a waste of opportunity. At least the Teresa actress put in some effort.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FeryHehf4Y
ArmedZombie fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 17:58
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One of the reasons I think that ford's new narrative isn't actually kill the humans is that MiB should be dead. The host that shot him missed on purpose. I also think tessa thompson has been terrible, if not the actress then the character is just kind of bleh. part of that might be because her character was introduced half way through the season and we don't really know her motivations yet. She wanted ford out because (she wants the freedom to gently caress hosts in the comfort of her own home?) Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:01
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the samurai world thing is, upon further reflection, completely retarded. the significance of The Park is severely diminished if it's just one park of many. calling it SamuraiWorld is rockfuck stupid as well so hopefully it's ShogunWorld at the very least. you would think over the course of the show even a tiny reference to 'other parks' would have been made but the show bashes you over the head repeatedly with how big and impressive the park is and it's the only thing that matters to a lot of people. i don't think the mib would have been coming to westworld for thirty years if there was shogunworld and other poo poo to go to as well. plus you'd get guests killing each other with swords and poo poo all the time. this show is garbage and never even told us how the guns work!!!
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Dec 5, 2016 18:03
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Up until the ending I felt like this show was educating me on life and love, humanity and intelligence. It felt mystical and new, expanding and informing. After the finale I realize I wasn't watching the beginning of something special and unique, I was merely smelling the fart of privileged white man.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:04
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Dr. Tim Whatley posted:Up until the ending I felt like this show was educating me on life and love, humanity and intelligence. It felt mystical and new, expanding and informing. After the finale I realize I wasn't watching the beginning of something special and unique, I was merely smelling the fart of privileged white man. it's actually an allegory for anti-colonialism ArmedZombie fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:08
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whatever7 posted:In this show, sure. She got so out act in all the scenes with Hopkins. What a waste of opportunity. Hopkins commanded every scene he was in. I would disagree with your assessment of Tessa. She seemed to play her role as intended, but to each to their own I suppose.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:09
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A bunch of people mentioned how much they loved the Exit music cover. I'm pretty sure they cribbed it off of a Brad Mehldau arrangement from a few years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK2rlNeuBiY And a slightly more aggressive solo rendition he did a few years later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozxt8QuHGNU&t=836s
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Dec 5, 2016 18:09
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http://i.imgur.com/zLUkFjb.mp4 http://i.imgur.com/RtdD1FD.mp4 KoRMaK fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:13
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I'm waiting for season 2 pull the rug out from under everyone with Ford being a complete dick and using the last episode as a means to roll people back. Also I kinda doubt that was the real Ford that died.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:13
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Shogunworld makes sense as figuring into the Charlotte/Delos plotline - the second time you do something makes it a franchise (or perhaps more properly a chain), and that's when the money really starts rolling in. Ford would never let them open Shogunworld because it's not his baby, but clearly they've been trying and probably falling short. The hosts can swordfight and stand around but aren't comparable to what you get in Westworld. The data they're trying to exfiltrate isn't the host profiles (those would be pretty useless in a different setting) but some secret sauce to believable AI that Ford's been able to withhold all this time. They're doing everything they can in Shogunworld without it, and hoping that Charlotte comes through and delivers the data to populate it.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:16
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 Nice file paths
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Dec 5, 2016 18:18
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The gently caress is up with the moon in the intro btw
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Dec 5, 2016 18:20
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Oh my god, Harmontown has Slyv on the show last night lol. Harmontown is Dan Harmon's podcast - it's got a video version too.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:21
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KoRMaK posted:The gently caress is up with the moon in the intro btw It's just a light shining over a host's body being constructed
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Dec 5, 2016 18:23
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KoRMaK posted:The gently caress is up with the moon in the intro btw Mac Tonight goes through phases just like the regular moon. That's him when he's full.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:26
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 23:07 |
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So, here's my WW trip report and something I hope someone else here will take to heart: My wife, who is a smarty pants, stopped me from watching any of this show until the last episode was very very close. We binged most of it Saturday and finished the last 3 eps yesterday. I loved it, but what I found super interesting was what I saw when I checked into the place I usually go to for TV reviews: Onion AV... quote:There are probably people who were stunned by the reveal that William and the Man In Black were one and the same. Somewhere. Presumably these people don’t read the Internet, but even then, “The Bicameral Mind” makes the twist immediately obvious before taking its sweet time to finally deliver the reveal. I could blame Internet theorizing on the lack of surprise here, but honestly, there’s no reason in the world we had to wait this long for a reveal this shallow. Picking this show apart on the internet absolutely ruined it for this person....and I'm going to venture a guess that they aren't the only one. Maybe I'm dumb (I'd prefer to think I just don't put so much certainty on my own show-theorizing) but I am that person who didn't really see that William/MIB reveal coming (and probably a lot of the other reveals in the show), and I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the fact that I didn't flash on the "multiple timelines" reveal until very late. Which imo is the real king of twists for the show, especially because it plays on the feeling the Hosts have with confusion over perfect memory recall. But the reviewer assumes that the reader is in the exact same boat where they KNEW all of these twists were coming and it colors their entire feeling about the ending and the series. And that sucks. My point being, if you really like this show I suggest trying not posting about it for season 2. I was a big  fan and I really loved coming here and diving into theorizing and plot stuff, but now I'm really wondering whether I would have enjoyed it that much more if I had NOT done that and let a few twists and turns hit me in the way they were intended rather than "Whoa that one poster guy and me were right!".Binge-ing it probably also helped with a lot of the "wheel spinning" I see people complaining about and doing that probably helped keep me off my toes for theorizing and whatnot, but keeping myself out of this thread definitely did and I am absolutely sure that it contributed to me, personally, (AS IN THIS ISN'T FOR EVERYONE AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE WATCHING TV WRONG) enjoying it a whole lot more than I would have. So, y'know. Consider it next season or next time you start hearing about a narrative show you think you'll be really into ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Besides that here's some quick hits: - Fantastic first and last episodes. - I wasn't all-in on Maeve's story, partly because I thought it was implausible that Felix and Sylvester would live in this world and decide that they'd rather enable an emerging Ultron-type super villian rather than risk their jobs. I know Sylvester eventually did but even to let it get to that late stage was dumb as hell and if they wanted me to believe Felix was THAT sympathetic to the Hosts they needed to show me more of it. - I got a twinge of Evangelion Gendo Ikari/SEELE when the show would focus on the relationship between Ford and the Board of Directors and I was sad they didn't lean into that more. The mystery and politicking dance between the two in both shows was fun. - The set design and staging and mix of Western/Modern in the parts in the WW management/design/whatever office was loving incredible and I would have watched a whole season of an incredibly lovely show just to see more of it. - The SW reveal was an extremely good tease for an expansion of the show. It seems unlikely that there's an entire South/East/North when management and Ford spend so much time hanging out in the West...but it'd be cool and a great direction for the show to go in.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:28
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