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That was an incredible season finale and I am very much looking forward to season 2.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:31
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If that turns out to be foreshadowing that the Ford who died was a host, I'm going to be really impressed.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:31
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Hopkins commanded every scene he was in. I agree. Tessa Thompson did a perfectly fine job with what she was given, especially considering that: 1. The Nolans are notorious for underwriting female characters, and relying on the same character archetypes over and over. We even got the mandatory "character with a dead wife as motivation" trope. 2. She's up against Anthony loving Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright (I will be extremely surprised if he doesn't pick up an Emmy for his work here). Of course she's gonna look less polished by comparison. 3. She got introduced halfway through the season as a representative for the Delos board, meaning that her motivations were kept under wraps and her actions veiled in order to sell the board as nefarious and antagonistic to Ford's vision. Every performance has it's failings, and compared to the rest of the ensemble she's a relatively inexperienced actress, but I never felt that her scenes detracted from the story or my suspension of disbelief. Can't say the same for Goofus and Gallant, the bumbling techs that set off the host uprising. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:33
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The people who don't believe Felix and Sylvester's story line must have perfect coworkers. I'm jealous, really.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:34
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Ford is doing that dominant handshake thing too where he puts his hand on top. Just speaks more to his character, still kind of egosticial
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Dec 5, 2016 18:34
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Given Hopkins' age they'll probably have to ambiguously kill him at the end of every season in order to prevent a show meltdown.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:39
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Harrow posted:If that turns out to be foreshadowing that the Ford who died was a host, I'm going to be really impressed. I guess it was a Ford host that was being built when Theresa was murdered. Dazerbeams posted:The people who don't believe Felix and Sylvester's story line must have perfect coworkers. I'm jealous, really. There is stupid then there is actively helping something that tried to murder you while they currently have no leverage on you. Also nothing was stopping Sylvester from messing up her code or bricking her while she was being rebuilt.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:40
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MeLKoR posted:This was the best hour and a half of TV in a long while. I think it's in the text 1) He made this decision a long time ago, when he talks about Oppenheimer and the "mistake" needing decades to be corrected. He realized he was wrong about the Hosts a long rear end time ago, which may or may not have been a full embrace of Robo Uber Alles. Either way he had a chance to let the park fold when Arnold died but he found someone to bankroll it because... 2) he said the thing that Arnold didn't realize that they needed in order to reach a full consciousness wasn't just suffering but a whole lot of it aka "time" and a long study of their enemies. Either that or he thought that full consciousness wasn't the be-all-end-all and he wanted to equip them to truly take over everything.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:40
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Wow gently caress, Harmon just had a p good theory that a guy at work also kind of kicked around: all levels of the park are open for guests. So, you could go to westworld and be a staff if you wanted. Anyway, Harmon posists that he thought that WestWorld was in an era where Robots took over, and they use WestWorld as a sort of mecca to get back in touch with their humanity roots, and that anyone could be any level. So, Maeve is visiting the park, on this playthrough she is the Madame, but in another one you could be the Bernard and have your picture where Bernard/Ford/Ford Dad were. So basically, you could go experience every level of life in the park.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:41
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It's not that I didn't believe the Felix and Sylvester storyline, it's just that it felt out of place in the context of the show. No one notices these two dudes spending so much time running around with one host, to various different sections? No one sees Maeve threatening or attacking techs, despite being in a building full of glass walls and security cameras? There were several points where Sylvester could've just walked out of the room, told some QA people that a host was malfunctioning to the point of breaking core programming, and gotten her retired immediately. Maeve had no real leverage over them up until the last few episodes. Again, not unbelievable that Maeve with an intelligence boost could outsmart two low level, self-interested morons. Thandie Newton's performance was solid, especially once they bumped her stats up and she became more proactive. But the majority of the scenes with Felix and Sylvester left me incredulous, if not yelling  at the TV. If anything their storyline gives credence to the idea that either Felix or Sylvester was a host, programmed by Ford to further Maeve's role in the new narrative.Edit: Looking at that handshake gif, there's no way Ford is dead. It's a dead giveaway, and a nice tie-in to the first episode. Goddamn this show. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 18:42
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Boner Zone posted:I actually really liked this Logan/William story, and it'll make the MiB's season 2 story potentially interesting since he's thought for 30 years that this park shows you who you really are, and so he thinks he already knows who he really is, but maybe he doesn't know at all yet Delores is the bad guy because Arnold didn't take the time to program shooting people and just uploaded Wyatt into her. Mavae is going to be the good guy and not kill Ed Harris because she might feel pity for him. I have the idea that the Arnold code and programing in Mavae is actually Mavae but she has not "crossed" over like Delores did. Maybe once the robit figures out that it is artificial the Arnold bicameral starts running to help the host cope with being a robot. I need to rewatch the episode, but did a voice tell Teddy to go find Delores? Or was he just programed like that for Ford's dinner theatre? I think Delores is going to be Wyatt aka the bad guy after the MIB. Mavae is going to try and save her daughter and come across the MIB. I think Teddy will be conflicted about Delores's actions. Bernard might wonder between worlds; talking to Charlotte and she not knowing he is a host, talking to the other Hosts, and getting over his own guilt of his son's implanted memory and the real memories of Elsie and Thressa How do Mavae and Delores view the world? Is it Yurl Brynner style with terminator vision? When they became "woke" I wonder what kind of senses they have. Bernard seems like a broke shell of himself; he is struggling the nature of his reality. Do the hosts have to calculate for their balance? Regulate their blinking, hand gestures, and facial expressions? Are those functions run by a sub-routine? If the Hosts were like a standard Operating System they would be inundated with too much information. the Host bicameral brains still must have a reptile sub-processor for basic motor functions
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Dec 5, 2016 18:42
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I also don't believe Ford's still alive just because that was clearly a Sean Ban GOT style role. I'd be shocked if it was anything more than him showing up in the finale of season 2 or something similiarly easy to shoot in a day or whatever. I'd also hate for that death to get cheapened in the way that Bernards does.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:45
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Dazerbeams posted:The people who don't believe Felix and Sylvester's story line must have perfect coworkers. I'm jealous, really. lol Yeah I suppose but I didn't feel like they were portrayed as either dumb enough or sympathetic to the hosts enough to actually go along with turning Maeve up to 11 just because she asks.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:48
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I think it's in the text I actually think Ford's decision was pretty believable. Ford wanted to leave the world being remember as father of sentient robot. He even brusheed off Arnold's attempt and said he was doing it wrong, never mind Arnold's contribution was as important or more important to the robots. He also wanted to give Delos the greatest gently caress you on the way out at the same time which is a very elegent plan from his perspective. Also, he didn't instruct Dolores to kill him. He only orchestrated the robot uprising. Dolores killing him was Dolores's decision.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:56
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I think they left the door wide open for a guest shot later. Narratively though, Ford is releasing his creation to flourish as it will. His opus is complete. Ford totally was the one manipulating Maeve. He needed her to do her behind-the-scenes escape attempt to keep QA and security occupied/shut down, which is what enables the holodeck security protocols to go offline and guns to be lethal (and the robotomized cold storage army moved out to the park unnoticed). I'm willing to entertain the idea that it's Wesley's fault though, somehow. We never found out what the hell that gold thing on the desk was 
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Dec 5, 2016 18:58
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Lol holy poo poo, Slyvesters Dad was a CIA operative that scammed a whole country (I forget which one) into paying for a facility that was never built. Dude's backstory is loving interesting.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:59
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Everyone in maintenance are retarded idiot freaks. QA can't seem to watch everyone at once, or they just don't really care what happens in maintenance as long as hosts get patched up and gets a quick format on the way out. Elsie threatens that one tech, just so she can get access to the satellite link host, but didn't seem to care otherwise. She's a bit weird too, stealing a kiss from Clementine. Sylvester is pimping out hosts for profit, and then there's that dude lubing up and jerking off on Hector on a weekly basis, despite being in full view of everyone.
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Dec 5, 2016 18:59
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Sorry people, I haven't quite caught up with the flurry of new posts since the season finale last night, but I have a question. During that great reveal when we see Dolores' death scene with Teddy is actually a performance for the board, when the two hosts are finished they freeze. Ford tells the techs to get them out of there, and take Dolores to the old lab or something. Then, what appears to be an hour later or so, Ford is giving his speech about the new narrative to everyone assembled there, and during this speech Dolores shoots him. And Teddy is watching. So, were Dolores and Teddy not actually taken away? Or am I confused here?
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Dec 5, 2016 19:01
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A poster above may have mentioned it, or maybe I read it somewhere else, but I'm definitely of the mind that ShogunWorld/SamuraiWorld isn't open yet, and Delos is testing the viability of it, but their hosts aren't correct without the input of Ford, which is part of why they are looking to get the data.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:02
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:It's not that I didn't believe the Felix and Sylvester storyline, it's just that it felt out of place in the context of the show. No one notices these two dudes spending so much time running around with one host, to various different sections? No one sees Maeve threatening or attacking techs, despite being in a building full of glass walls and security cameras? There were several points where Sylvester could've just walked out of the room, told some QA people that a host was malfunctioning to the point of breaking core programming, and gotten her retired immediately. Maeve had no real leverage over them up until the last few episodes. No, because Ford would have intervened if his plan to shut down the Mesa had looked like it was going to fail. Just like he intervened and murdered at least one person when it looked like his narrative might be shut down before it was ready. Sylvester would have been fired or murdered and Maeve would have been rebuilt and returned to service. It's amusing that people are projecting "what I would have done if my computer janitor job started the robot uprising" when that view of events is already out of date. Felix and Sylvester made all the correct choices.. Sylvester might have even been murdered if he'd tried to alert QA. Ford was watching the whole time.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:02
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whatever7 posted:I actually think Ford's decision was pretty believable. Ford wanted to leave the world being remember as father of sentient robot. He even brusheed off Arnold's attempt and said he was doing it wrong, never mind Arnold's contribution was as important or more important to the robots. I don't even think it was that bad, Arnold was the father of consciousness but Ford's philosophy said "yeah...and?" because he didn't think consciousness was all that great on it's own....especially when humans were drat near guaranteed to respond to it badly. Not so much that Arnold was doing it wrong, but that he didn't take the whole thing to it's logical conclusion. Which Ford thought was "well this is a Neanderthal/Homo Sapien situation and one of them is gonna die....might as well be us because these new guys are the poo poo".
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Dec 5, 2016 19:02
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Has everybody managed to chat to Aeden the javascript chatbot host at https://www.discoverwestworld.com Or is that old news?
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Dec 5, 2016 19:02
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aBagorn posted:A poster above may have mentioned it, or maybe I read it somewhere else, but I'm definitely of the mind that ShogunWorld/SamuraiWorld isn't open yet, and Delos is testing the viability of it, but their hosts aren't correct without the input of Ford, which is part of why they are looking to get the data. Yea that makes a bunch of sense
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Dec 5, 2016 19:03
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Dec 5, 2016 19:06
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mng posted:Everyone in maintenance are retarded idiot freaks. QA can't seem to watch everyone at once, or they just don't really care what happens in maintenance as long as hosts get patched up and gets a quick format on the way out. Elsie threatens that one tech, just so she can get access to the satellite link host, but didn't seem to care otherwise. She's a bit weird too, stealing a kiss from Clementine. Sylvester is pimping out hosts for profit, and then there's that dude lubing up and jerking off on Hector on a weekly basis, despite being in full view of everyone. It was mentioned in an early episode how they're screened for hire based on a lack of empathy or something similar so they don't get attached to the very lifelike hosts. Because seeing humans loving mutilated and debased day in and day out is PTSD-inducing nightmare fuel for well-adjusted people. It's why I suspect Felix is a stealth host, but he could just a be a fuckup in hiring. QA is suffering from Ford upending the apple cart and repurposing hundreds of hosts for his narrative, and having their boss "accidentally" dying. So they're too busy firefighting with hosts possibly acting up due to new roles requiring kink ironing-out to notice stuff that might otherwise be eyebrow-raising. MrMojok posted:Sorry people, I haven't quite caught up with the flurry of new posts since the season finale last night, but I have a question. It was probably several hours later--the party was in full swing. Teddy just needed a little cleanup. He could be returned quickly. Dolores needed a patch job and fresh blood. Ford probably did the work himself. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 19:07
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Been listening to the score and I really dig Dwajadi's forays into SF synth music (e.g. "Freeze All Motor Functions").aBagorn posted:A poster above may have mentioned it, or maybe I read it somewhere else, but I'm definitely of the mind that ShogunWorld/SamuraiWorld isn't open yet, and Delos is testing the viability of it, but their hosts aren't correct without the input of Ford, which is part of why they are looking to get the data. I was thinking they'd just have a very small "experience" that's not a full park, like a field full of samurai fighting that you can go watch or something like that, not a full immersive experience like WW that takes up a huge amount of landscape, but I like this too, it's just a proof of concept. Let's be real though, Nolan just wanted to throw in a reference to another World for the fan service.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:09
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That was not a very good season finale. It just languished forEVER. My brain started shutting down about 30 minutes in. It was like a very very bad version of inception.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:16
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I hope we get to see more of Dr. Ford.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:20
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Arglebargle III posted:No, because Ford would have intervened if his plan to shut down the Mesa had looked like it was going to fail. Just like he intervened and murdered at least one person when it looked like his narrative might be shut down before it was ready. Sylvester would have been fired or murdered and Maeve would have been rebuilt and returned to service. As I said, their behavior just lends credence to the theory that Ford was pulling the strings one way or another. I agree with your conclusion, even if I found the means by which we got there to be the least entertaining or engrossing part of the show OAquinas posted:It was mentioned in an early episode how they're screened for hire based on a lack of empathy or something similar so they don't get attached to the very lifelike hosts. Because seeing humans loving mutilated and debased day in and day out is PTSD-inducing nightmare fuel for well-adjusted people. It's why I suspect Felix is a stealth host, but he could just a be a fuckup in hiring. Also this.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:22
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I guess it was a Ford host that was being built when Theresa was murdered. If the gif of Ford's handshake is used to support this theory, then it's a flawed theory because the current hosts don't share any of the same traits of the original hosts, like the mechanical/motor operations and the coding. The only likely reason the alleged Ford host would share the same obvious giveaway would be because Ford programmed it to do so, but why would he give his host double such a obvious indicator? The only person we know so far that would have picked up on it is Bernard, but at this point it seems to have served no purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a reveal in season 2 that confirms it was a host double, but I personally don't believe that theory. And we have a ways to go to see!
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Dec 5, 2016 19:25
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This is a good show that will be better next year when I don't dive into fan theories that all ended up being right somehow even when they were based on nothing
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Dec 5, 2016 19:29
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So where did bargain basement Jack Harkness run off to?
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Dec 5, 2016 19:31
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The Duggler posted:This is a good show that will be better next year when I don't dive into fan theories that all ended up being right somehow even when they were based on nothing
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Dec 5, 2016 19:31
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:If the gif of Ford's handshake is used to support this theory, then it's a flawed theory because the current hosts don't share any of the same traits of the original hosts, like the mechanical/motor operations and the coding. The only likely reason the alleged Ford host would share the same obvious giveaway would be because Ford programmed it to do so, but why would he give his host double such a obvious indicator? The only person we know so far that would have picked up on it is Bernard, but at this point it seems to have served no purpose. I took the handshake to be a hint to the viewer. I do like the host Ford theory, but we'll see how they end up doing season 2, either with or without Hopkins.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:34
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Sorry if this was already posted, some possible foreshadowing for season 2: http://i.imgur.com/gJdggnC.gifv
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Dec 5, 2016 19:36
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KoRMaK posted:Wow gently caress, Harmon just had a p good theory that a guy at work also kind of kicked around: all levels of the park are open for guests. So, you could go to westworld and be a staff if you wanted. So basically it's not Westworld but Westworldworld?
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Dec 5, 2016 19:40
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Maeve and her bumblefuck enablers’ storyline definitely felt like the weakest in the show, but I appreciate how much her actress sold it. She deserves a second place prize for scenery-chewing villainy, behind Anthony Hopkins. Also, I loved how much they aped The Terminator, synth music and all.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:40
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Dec 5, 2016 19:47
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mng posted:I took the handshake to be a hint to the viewer. I do like the host Ford theory, but we'll see how they end up doing season 2, either with or without Hopkins. I agree, it seemed strange. Maybe it was Hopkins' character choice that Ford had a weird handshake, but it felt off to me in the same way that the off-center Bernarnold picture did. Re: Westworld management, you're meant to get the impression that it's a clusterfuck, and Ford had purposefully kept it that way. Everyone basically takes it as fact that hosts are harmless because thirty years without incident, except security who everyone laughs at. Not to mention murdering the head of QA and upending all the scripts.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:47
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I would have appreciated Maeve's storyline so much more if it turned out Charlotte had her re-programmed to try to escape Westworld and that she was the host who would be piggybacking the host data out of the park. It was set up perfectly, but then she got off the train.
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Dec 5, 2016 19:48
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