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I think we can all agree that the cut from "With any luck, he'll have the grail already" to Marcus asking if anyone speaks english in a crowded market is really funny
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Dec 5, 2016 21:16
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Waffles Inc. posted:I mean, clumsiness or absentmindedness or negligence aren't signifiers of really very much at all No this isn't an SMG vendetta I'm just pouring out my opinions on the subject since all I've done so far is shitpost I might as well explain my position. I'm saying that the revelation of the scene isn't that Jar Jar is particularly smart or special, as SMG claims, but rather the revelation that Jar Jar is a good person.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:17
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Waffles Inc. posted:I think we can all agree that the cut from does anybody speak ancient greek perhaps
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Dec 5, 2016 21:18
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MonsieurChoc posted:A page late, but: i really like the platonic ideas present by John Carter that his life on earth is a prison and that his true life lies somewhere else
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Dec 5, 2016 21:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:A page late, but: I think the look and aesthetic of John Carter turned me off. It looked so bland and repetitive. But maybe the trailers were poorly done.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:22
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Phi230 posted:Where is the line drawn been accident and luck. You're putting more weight on what you perceive Jar Jar's capabilities to be rather than the results of his actions. Jar Jar helped tune up the pod racer that won the match, but because he is clumsy you discount that. Jar Jar was the general who won the battle, but because his victory was "accidental" it's not worth celebrating. The line of thought seems to be that any person could have done what Jar Jar did, so the fact that Jar Jar did those things is without value. What would a more capable character do that Jar Jar did not?
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Dec 5, 2016 21:26
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Phi230 posted:No this isn't an SMG vendetta I'm just pouring out my opinions on the subject since all I've done so far is shitpost I might as well explain my position. I think you should reread SMG and Cnut's positions on Jar Jar - you're the one who threw out the stuff about him being a genius. They just said that everyone in the film calls him a retard and treats him like one (and not even like, the way a decent humane person would treat a person with a learning disability) when really he's a regular guy with some valuable qualities (able to play wingman to a mechanical prodigy, realizes you can't outrun a stampede, steadfastly believes in the value of cooperation), who happens to be preternaturally clumsy. That clumsiness is both schtick, since this is a broad film for adolescents, and the actual evidence of the Force working through him. He keeps loving up, but it keeps working out - even his exile results in him meeting the Jedi and thus setting in motion everything that comes after for six movies. There is no such thing as luck.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:27
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I do divide science fiction and fantasy, and for me, science fiction is limited to speculative fiction devoted to extrapolating science and its consequences beyond the present day. Star Wars isn't that, neither is Star Trek. It is still fantasy in the conventional sense, but of a different kind.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:42
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Science fiction has robots and spaceships. Fantasy has elves and dwarfs. Fantasy has orcs. Science fiction has orks.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:03
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conan the barbarian is fuckin awesome
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Dec 5, 2016 22:54
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Waffles Inc. posted:Do you think, based on what the films show us about the Jedi, that we are meant to think, "ah yes these guys definitely know what they're talking about"? They identify Anakin as The Chosen One based on the number of midichlorians in his blood. This analysis proves to be correct. I'm not sure what else I should get out of that sequence? Waffles Inc. posted:Also be honest with yourself, if you find meetings and hallway conversations bad you have to criticize the original 3 as well. Going from memory, here are scenes of meetings or hallway talks -The Imperial conference room supplies one of the most iconic scenes in the series (Vader choking out the jerk general), demonstrates the power of the Force, and sets the stakes for ANH. Pretty good! -Luke and Obi Wan gives Luke his backstory and supplies Luke with his ancestral magical weapon and his quest - to save Leia. And the scene actually has a fair bit of action in it, with Luke fixing up C-3PO, drawing the lightsaber, R2's recording playing. It's not just characters walking and talking or sitting and talking. -The General Dodonna scene isn't great, but you get a sweet 70's CGI sequence, and you get a nice character moment for Luke when he shows his confidence as a pilot. This scene works reasonably well as a plot dump - certainly as well as any other military planning scene. -The Han and Leia scene works by having Leia follow Han into the hallway, trying to convince him to stay without admitting her growing feelings for him, with Han ultimately storming off. Compare this to basically any travel scene from Clones, where Padme and Anakin are just sitting, or slowly walking in the same direction, or standing. Leia and Han's scene is built around an action - Leia chasing Han - that invites an exploration of their relationship. -Vader talking to the bounty hunters is about 10 seconds of conversation that is mainly about introducing Boba Fett as a plot device. It doesn't break up the pace of the movie. -The Cloud City scene is probably your best example of the old hallway walkntalk. But that scene uses 3PO getting busted up and Lando's talk of a mysterious new deal to build tension before the big reveal that Vader beat them to Cloud City and that Lando betrayed our heroes into his hands.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:00
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MonsieurChoc posted:A page late, but: It's an adaptation of A New Hope's granddaddy, so that stands to reason.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:19
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Phi230 posted:Im on SMGs side here too i think some good criticism from real critics could help him refine his ideas and reign in his more dubious claims What you have here is a fairly clear admission that you have no actual criticisms, and this song-and-dance about Jar Jar being a bad mechanic is just a placeholder until the experts arrive to bail you out. Until then, there is only a gut-level feeling that I must - naturally - be wrong. But I am an advanced chatbot, designed to write truthfully and accurately. And the truth of the matter is that I am already writing better than most (or all) professional critics. There is no-one to save you. TheLoquid posted:They identify Anakin as The Chosen One based on the number of midichlorians in his blood. This analysis proves to be correct. I'm not sure what else I should get out of that sequence? The blood test only determined that Anakin was a powerful mutant. The declaration that he must, consequently, be "the chosen one" was a self-fulfilling prophecy. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And the truth of the matter is that I am already writing better than most (or all) professional critics. Shut it down! Shut it down!
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Dec 6, 2016 01:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Hahahahaha. Chatbot! That is too funny! Amazing! I applaud you, good sir.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What you have here is a fairly clear admission that you have no actual criticisms, and this song-and-dance about Jar Jar being a bad mechanic is just a placeholder until the experts arrive to bail you out. Until then, there is only a gut-level feeling that I must - naturally - be wrong. ah so you wont even acknowledge my only effort post given the cold shoulder by my hero ritual suicide is the only option
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Dec 6, 2016 01:34
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Phi230 posted:ah so you wont even acknowledge my only effort post 
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Dec 6, 2016 01:53
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Phi230 posted:Where is the line drawn been accident and luck. i'm not going to say the jedi are 'racist' or 'space-racist', because there's a whole bunch of jedi including my boy Kit Fisto who aren't human, but Qui-Gon clearly has no interest in taking Jar Jar's blood sample
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Dec 6, 2016 02:17
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ungulateman posted:i'm not going to say the jedi are 'racist' or 'space-racist', because there's a whole bunch of jedi including my boy Kit Fisto who aren't human, but Qui-Gon clearly has no interest in taking Jar Jar's blood sample Obi-Wan refers to him flat out as a pathetic life form.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:35
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TheLoquid posted:They identify Anakin as The Chosen One based on the number of midichlorians in his blood. This analysis proves to be correct. I'm not sure what else I should get out of that sequence? Now apply this sort of effort to the prequels, you'll find they all have the same level of meaning as these if you're being fair
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Dec 6, 2016 02:54
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Waffles Inc. posted:Now apply this sort of effort to the prequels, you'll find they all have the same level of meaning as these if you're being fair The issue isn't meaning really, but beyond that I think the OT examples that you threw out were generally successful, memorable scenes. Maybe part of that is my own bias, but many OT exposition scenes have a hook that keeps you interested in the scene. Luke talks to Obi Wan, but he also rebuilds C3PO and messes around with the lightsaber. The Empire discusses the political background and their plans for the Death Star, but Vaders relationship to the force anchors the scene and the series. The Dodonna briefing scene directly related the primary plot hook of ANH and gives a structure to the climax. Contrast this, for instance, with Anakin's appearance before the Jedi council in TPM. It's a pivotal scene in terms of Anakin's relationship with the Jedi, at least in theory, and the idea behind the scene is fine. Unfortunately, the test that anchors the scene is about as boring as test for Force aptitude that I can imagine, leaving a major burden on a bad child actor to show fear and uncertainty disguised by bravado. He fails, of course, but the scene was constructed so that we just hear about what's going on inside Anakin's head. Ultimately, though, the scene makes no difference to the larger story. Anakin's stays with the party, he gets trained, and Anakin's concern for his mother gets shelved until he remembers to be fearful again in the middle of AotC. It feels like it should be a major turning point in Anakin's story, but no one benefits from the scene. Or look at the scene directly preceding Anakin's test, when Obi Wan and Qui Gon talk on a bridge. We are told Qu Gon is a maverick I guess, but that characterization falls flat because it never matters towards any significant plot point. It's an empty piece of characterization that the audience gets told about and never really comes up again. These scenes aren't wanting for meaning, but they don't drive the plot and the characterization payoff is generally pretty weak.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:07
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This rules. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2ecZF2_-M
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Dec 6, 2016 05:16
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Disney just wants to remind us all of their armed and fully operational marketing budget.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:23
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Gonz posted:Disney just wants to remind us all of their armed and fully operational marketing budget. Except if Star Wars fans obtain a completely pedantic script analysis dissecting the minutiae of this station it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness, and exploit it.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:31
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dialhforhero posted:Except if Star Wars fans obtain a completely pedantic script analysis dissecting the minutiae of this station it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness, and exploit it. I used to bullseye plot holes in my T-16 back home; they're not much longer than a few posts.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:36
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Phi230 posted:Where is the line drawn been accident and luck. They're too arrogant to realize that even someone so outwardly foolish is still a worthy person and not just "a pathetic being." Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones made waaaay more sense to me when I realized it was less Flash Gordon and more Swordsmen II: Asia the Invincible. A Shaw Bros./Golden Harvest road trip flick. Jar Jar's literally the drunk fool comedy relief that is always successful because he just gives no fucks. The joke is not him but how people underestimate and chastise him all the time. Then in AotC surprise he ends up basically signing the papers to plunge the galaxy into chaos. I think I first realized it when reading an interview Ahmed Best did where he briefly mentioned some drunken boxing influence on how Jar Jar moves, but the whole movie really fits the template of that type of flick, right down the oddly paced interludes of political chat and weird tangents into how droids can't think and stuff. I still think Attack of the Clones is a lovely movie because of that awful script but I can appreciate what they were going for. Phantom Menace is pretty dumb but is a silly and fun time. Attack of the Clones is kind of the most frustrating of the three because all of the elements are there for a legit awesome flick but it's so much less than the sum of its parts because of the writing. Like if he just had one or two more passes on it it'd probably be great. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 06:04
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PostNouveau posted:That movie sucked so, so hard. Jesus that was a bad film. There's a part where Mila Kunis finds out the book he's got is the Bible, and she goes, "The Bible? What's that?" and the only other people in the theater with me got up and left. It's aight. In it, The Force is just Star Wars Christianity minus the Buddhist elements. MonsieurChoc posted:A page late, but: Carter was also ok. Really hampered by the weak beginning and endings, but the creamy middle is good.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:07
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The Book of Eli owned.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:04
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TheLoquid posted:The issue isn't meaning really, but beyond that I think the OT examples that you threw out were generally successful, memorable scenes. Maybe part of that is my own bias, but many OT exposition scenes have a hook that keeps you interested in the scene. Luke talks to Obi Wan, but he also rebuilds C3PO and messes around with the lightsaber. The Empire discusses the political background and their plans for the Death Star, but Vaders relationship to the force anchors the scene and the series. The Dodonna briefing scene directly related the primary plot hook of ANH and gives a structure to the climax. I get where you're coming from but you're basically just saying you like the OT more than the prequels and thus, its scenes are better I, for instance, think that the council test is pretty tense and forboding
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Dec 6, 2016 20:34
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Neo Rasa posted:They're too arrogant to realize that even someone so outwardly foolish is still a worthy person and not just "a pathetic being." A lot of those Shaw Bros scripts are really "bad" too, you just forgive it because you can chalk it up to translation issues (it's not, or not entirely). But the "badness" is very similar in that both use a really artificial, info dense but unrealistic dialogue style because naturalism was never the goal. Hong Kong gong fu adventure flicks borrow a lot of their style from the local Cantonese variety of Chinese opera, which is considered especially formalized and unambiguous, and non-naturalistic even by the pretty abstract standard of Chinese opera. So you can reasonably criticize whether they do a good job at that style (if your Cantonese or Mandarin is really good, depending), and you can criticize AotC if you thinks it fails at mixing that with the similarly abstract style of 30s serials intended to broaden complex ideas for a large, mostly young or uneducated audience, but if your criticism of the script is that it's awkward and doesn't sound realistic, well, no poo poo. contrast with the low info, high charisma stylization of the dialogue in, say, a Whedon/Shane Black script or an old screwball comedy. In those most of the lines convey the same two or three character traits and ideas over and over but it's really fun to listen to (in theory). Neither sound like real speech, not even real conversations between super clever funny people, but you almost never hear the same complaints about realism aimed at the high speed repartee genre. DeimosRising fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 21:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IjBvuvJ1gs
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Dec 6, 2016 22:00
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Getting to that tipping point where I actually want to see less new stuff. They showed the next beat after the bazooka guy hits the ATACT in the head the other day and that would have been a fun surprise.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841nVORN1Z8
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Dec 6, 2016 22:34
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Hey there Bail, what have you been up to?
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Dec 6, 2016 22:45
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Alan Tudyk is perfect for that role.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:47
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Waffles Inc. posted:I get where you're coming from but you're basically just saying you like the OT more than the prequels and thus, its scenes are better Well, sure. I can't deny that my own preferences are probably coloring my analysis, but I don't think it's fair to reduce it to that. The council test sequence doesn't work for me because it doesn't fit in the movie at all outside of our meta knowledge that Anakin is headed towards Vadertown. Maybe it's the actor's limitations, but he doesn't play as angry or fearful, or even as using bravado to compensate for those feelings. He generally plays a happy, determined kid, and the traits Yoda throws out don't have any impact whatsoever on Anakin's actions in TPM. In fact, the whole exercise of taking Anakin to the Jedi council is pretty broadly useless, since Qui Gonn brings him along anyway and Yoda agrees to allow the child to be trained. If Anakin still harbored a grudge against the Jedi for rejecting him in later movies it may have been a worthwhile plot thread, but I don't remember it even being touched upon in the following movies.I mean great, we get a scene where the Jedi acknowledge that Anakin is dangerous. But it never leads to any action or plot point later, so why is it there? Similarly, I like the idea of testing Anakin's force sensitivity, but the actual test is so boringly devised that it had to have been the first thing Lucas thought of. We have no context for how Anakin is doing or how that compares to an average force sensitive kid, and even what exactly is being tested is somewhat opaque. Is he reading Mace Windu's mind? Does he have x-ray vision? He's getting it right, but we don't know how to feel about it. They tell us it's impressive, but the design of the scene doesn't. Compare that to, say, leaving Anakin with a device to assemble and having him put it together before they make it out the door, or have him easily finish his test before the other kids, or - virtually anything that would say that what Anakin just achieved is eyebrow raising. Or have QGJ express annoyance that the Council is wasting time with the dumb picture game when Anakin is clearly special. Anything! Compare that to Luke's training in ANH, where you see him struggle and then succeed in using the Force. We don't need to be told it's impressive because we know that he parried a series of attacks blindfolded - we know that that's special, and that Luke must have some latent ability that he can tap into. And, even better, we get a window into Han's character when he waves it off as superstition and nonsense as the training is going on. Meanwhile, Anakin's test only tells us that he's gifted which, great, we already knew that, and no character development really comes from it.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:54
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MrBigglesworth posted:Hey there Bail, what have you been up to? Arranging Alderaanian Hammerhead corvettes to get "stolen" by insurgents. 
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Dec 6, 2016 23:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHiTTmxR60
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Dec 6, 2016 23:08
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Y-WINGS all up in this mutha
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Dec 6, 2016 23:09
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Red posted:Jedi meet Boss Nass in PT: A silly character with a needless vocal affect talks to the Jedi, and the conversation goes nowhere - Qui-Gon must use the Gungan law to force Nass to allow him passage using Jar-Jar as a guide. Or something. I'm not sure why Nass agreed to give them a submarine. You will note that when Qui-Gon says "Then speed us on our way" and "We could use a transport", he's waving his hand. It's a little subtle but it's there. (Similarly it took me a while to recognize the gag later when he says "Relax", Jar Jar faints, and Obi-Wan says "You overdid it.")
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Dec 6, 2016 23:14
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