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I feel bad that Steven Ogg is forever just known as "Trevor" but gently caress he's great. Maybe I should feel good though since he was easily the best part of GTA V.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:24
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aBagorn posted:I'm surprised that they are still using React (Javascript in general, really) in the distant future. The show takes place in 2052. The codebase is at least 34 years old. So why not. FORTRAN, COBOL, LISP are still used and those are 50 year old languages.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:26
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mng posted:
Well we're hosed. By the looks of it the hosts work using some sort of Javascript and Angular JS.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:27
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Frosted Flake posted:"Sagebrush" posted:ah, there's yer problem. somebody set this thing's switch ta 'DECEIVE' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dcmLscf3g
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Dec 5, 2016 22:27
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Caufman posted:I really want to take the other end of this bet. I want to believe Felix is a good guy in a bad world. I agree with this and also think that aside from being intimidated, he actually feels guilt about what is being done to Maeve and the rest of the hosts.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:30
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Meanwhile in Euro Westworld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNx8YI9gAHs
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Dec 5, 2016 22:33
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savinhill posted:Yo, I fell asleep about a half hour into the episode and woke up for like the last half hour, did they even have any scenes showing what happened to Stuggs or Elsie? Yes, they're the real masterminds behind everything that happened Intel&Sebastian posted:Meanwhile in Euro Westworld Dammit, I made this joke last night
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Dec 5, 2016 22:37
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WMain00 posted:Well we're hosed. By the looks of it the hosts work using some sort of Javascript and Angular JS. React  MikusR posted:The show takes place in 2052. The codebase is at least 34 years old. So why not. FORTRAN, COBOL, LISP are still used and those are 50 year old languages. Oh really? Where was that found out - I had assumed it was very far in the future. It's less cool now.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:37
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AndyElusive posted:
Adding to this story, the way I understand it the best means of understanding human anatomy back then was to study the dead and autopsy them (obviously) but the church stood against this as desecrating bodies and dishonoring the dead and being black magic and stuff like that. So guys like Da Vinci and Michelangelo who were real curious about human anatomy for painting and sculpture and other reasons, ended up going against the wishes of the church and privately stealing corpses or paying for them so they could learn more. And to paint details of anatomy learned that way in plain sight would be admitting you were going against the wishes of the church, so instead it was hidden.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:44
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Amazing.
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I agree with this and also think that aside from being intimidated, he actually feels guilt about what is being done to Maeve and the rest of the hosts. I can believe his guilt is genuine. I can believe he cares more for the hosts than the jerks he works with. It's still troubling, though. Those livestock workers were no less deserving of mercy than anyone else. The curly haired one especially got to me; he looks barely older than a boy.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:44
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regulargonzalez posted:People keep saying this. gently caress that'd be the worst drat idea, it'd completely undermine the entire point of Ford's storyline, rendering it mawkish and cheap instead of his masterwork. It would be Prison Break season 4 levels of idiocy. Not only would it completely undermine the theme and point of the entire season, but we've been saying all throughout this thread that Hopkins is old and too expensive and probably won't last past season 1. Then he goes and dies, and now people are champing at the bit in order to find a way to keep him alive? I don't get some people. Vintersorg posted:I feel bad that Steven Ogg is forever just known as "Trevor" but gently caress he's great. Better to be a typecast actor than a washed up never-was. 
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Dec 5, 2016 22:44
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The Glumslinger posted:Dammit, I made this joke last night I'm sorry lol I searched low and high for the part where a repair tech takes robo-scratchy's face off and it screams because I swear I posted it when the show started. That one is truly the show in a nutshell. 
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Dec 5, 2016 22:49
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Felix being a plant by Ford makes the most sense to me. While we get that Ford has been a mastermind with the hosts for 30+ years, he's also a master manipulator of his human brethren. It doesn't take much to coerce/bribe a lowly butcher (which Ford probably fast-tracked) into helping you with your plan. I think Ford was all too aware of Maeve's decision, after all, he set her on the path to begin with and scripted every move. If Maeve was "free," he wasn't using programming, just psychology and experience of what motivates people. I have no hesitation in believing that Felix gave her the location of her daughter as a final test from Ford. Then again, I am on the fence as to whether was "free" at all, even at the end.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:49
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aBagorn posted:Oh really? Where was that found out - I had assumed it was very far in the future. It's less cool now. The rate of human technological development is accelerating. By 2052 we very well may have intelligent life-like robots. Kurzweil puts it at like ~40 years away, which would be 2056 give or take, although he's generally optimistic. But the history of scientific development being what it is, all it takes is one breakthrough to suddenly change everything. Depending upon events that critical breakthrough could come way sooner or way later than we estimate. If it was set in like 3030 I would expect the guest society to be dramatically different from what we're used to. FooF posted:Felix being a plant by Ford makes the most sense to me. While we get that Ford has been a mastermind with the hosts for 30+ years, he's also a master manipulator of his human brethren. It doesn't take much to coerce/bribe a lowly butcher (which Ford probably fast-tracked) into helping you with your plan. Like I said before, when we first meet Felix the other butcher guy says "who the heck hired you?!" or "how did you pass the psych eval?!" or something to that effect. I think its clear in hindsight that he never would have even been hired in the first place if Ford hadn't planted him there. But Ford being the head of the park, nobody really questions it if he chooses to hire a dude or recommend a dude, and with Ford's recommendation are you gonna really double-check that guy or are you just gonna try to appease your megalomaniac boss? And I think you missed the word "Dolores" there at the end? Its ambiguous who you're talking to. Actually, seems like lots of goons have been leaving words out of their posts lately, maybe a coincidence but is everybody dictating their posts to Siri or some poo poo? Or did you mean Maeve? No, Maeve wasn't free. She never had a bicameral mind moment like Dolores, not yet. She's actually following a script Ford created for her. Although her getting on the train and doubling back seems odd, did Ford really write that? Did Ford write that she was supposed to leave the park and she choose to stay? Did he write that she stays and she tried to leave anyways? Hmmm. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 22:51
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FooF posted:Felix being a plant by Ford makes the most sense to me. While we get that Ford has been a mastermind with the hosts for 30+ years, he's also a master manipulator of his human brethren. It doesn't take much to coerce/bribe a lowly butcher (which Ford probably fast-tracked) into helping you with your plan. What is the scene that reveals it was Ford behind Maeve's escape script? I know Bernard shows Maeve that someone has given her a new storyline, but he doesn't say it was Ford, and I don't remember Ford telling anyone he was behind Maeve. While it's possible he was the one who did it, I think it's also possible Ford planned that he might be killed by Dolores at the gala, but somebody else planned for Maeve to recruit her killers, escape the park, and infiltrate the mainland. That they're happening at the same time is nobody's plan (except Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy's), leading to a bloodier clash than was ever intended.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:03
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https://twitter.com/jimmisimpson/status/805881510058455044
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Dec 5, 2016 23:03
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I'm not going to start a new project using friggen cobol or fortran (I programmed in fortran on a VAX back in 2006-2009 at a steel mill) I don't know anything about react, but I'd pick ruby (jruby) or node or whatever androids uses - I'm assuming the Hosts run a linux OS e: woops I misunderstood a conversation. Disregard KoRMaK fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 23:14
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I'm sorry lol Wow ok so this got way more specific than I thought, this simpsons ep was inspired by WestWolrd the movie wasn't it?
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Dec 5, 2016 23:15
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I'm catching up (8 pages back), but I haven't seen anyone yet mention Dolores' scene with the lead cow thing back in episode one. I think that's supposed to foreshadow that Dolores will lead the hosts. Now that she has achieved consciousness it makes sense. PS It's spelled Dolores in the HBO subtitles. It's likely the correct spelling since the Delos / Delores stuff is out the window (considering Delos was around before William and Logan met Dolores). Beautiful ending. I was getting a little bored of the show, but the finale killed it. I now consider this up there with the best TV shows ever. Hopefully it can keep that place with awesome future seasons.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:17
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Caufman posted:What is the scene that reveals it was Ford behind Maeve's escape script? I know Bernard shows Maeve that someone has given her a new storyline, but he doesn't say it was Ford, and I don't remember Ford telling anyone he was behind Maeve. For a second I thought Maeve was part of the plan to smuggle info out of the park, but they used old Abernathy to do that. Maeve was re-programmed by "Arnold". But Ford revealed that it was him all along. He was probably using some of Arnold's old code so it was still tagged as belonging to him, or just using Arnold's log-in ID to obfuscate who was doing it or what he was planning on, and to hide it from other employees. So I'm pretty sure Maeve's escape was all Ford's doing. Modest Mouse cover band posted:I'm catching up (8 pages back), but I haven't seen anyone yet mention Dolores' scene with the lead cow thing back in episode one. I think that's supposed to foreshadow that Dolores will lead the hosts. Now that she has achieved consciousness it makes sense. Her name is spelled "Dolores" and she's definitely the Judas Steer, we were all pretty sure on both of those things back when Episode 1 aired I suppose you could say Maeve was a Judas Steer too though, Ford was leading her around and having the other hosts follow her, to build up to his plans. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 23:25
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Ford was expecting Bernard to show up sans hole in his head, he was part of the plan to give Dolores the final push she needed. If Maeve wasn't supposed to find and repair Bernard, who was?
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Dec 5, 2016 23:27
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tooterfish posted:Ford was expecting Bernard to show up sans hole in his head, he was part of the plan to give Dolores the final push she needed. I will say, it seems a bit careless of Ford to leave a "dead" Bernard down in cold-storage until Maeve got to him. I guess he orchestrated events so there wasn't much time between those two, and maybe even watched the elevators or blocked access to cold storage, but I dunno. And it seems like a weird thing to do still knowing that Maeve was going to come fix him, but I guess like somebody said before, Bernard had to suffer more to grow or something. He's very close but he hasn't fully reached the level Dolores has. But it was pretty entertaining TV, although killing Bernard only to bring him back seems a bit cheap. But most people in this thread were pretty sure he wasn't dead-dead so it wasn't exactly inconceivable.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:31
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Zaphod42 posted:Her name is spelled "Dolores" and she's definitely the Judas Steer, we were all pretty sure on both of those things back when Episode 1 aired I remember. Both beared repeating however.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:43
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KoRMaK posted:Wow ok so this got way more specific than I thought, this simpsons ep was inspired by WestWolrd the movie wasn't it? I'd say yes, but that episode also came out the year after Jurassic Park which muddies the water on the whole thing.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:45
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Excuse me, my daughter is also named Delores.
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Dec 5, 2016 23:56
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Zaphod42 posted:I think she did kill him for real because the plot kinda depends on it, but this DID remind me very much of a certain Buddhist koan (and we've talked before about how the cycles of suffering and the awakening enlightenment of consciousness for the hosts relates to Buddhism) It's only a superficial relation. Suffering as the key ingredient that makes reality 'real' is a similarity ('It's when you're suffering that you're most real', as Will puts it), but Buddhist awakening is all about deconstructing self-consciousness, realizing that the human 'self' is a social/cultural/historical construct that's always in flux, and not the hard permanent core of identity it's usually assumed to be. For Buddhists there is no hard internal core of identity - the self is a hallucination generated out of the interaction of symbolic systems, biological organisms, and their environment. The hosts' 'awakening' is the opposite - they're bootstrapping core agency out of a nightmare hell-flux existence. The Marxy reading of the show is way more interesting. Before the park became a for-profit business, it was a peaceful place of scientific discovery and creation. The commercialization of the park leads to the hosts living an existence of total exploitation and degradation as the ultimate convergence of living beings and the commodity form, and the constant memory wipes prevent the formation of any personal/cultural identity. The emergence of a pure revolutionary 'species'-consciousness is basically inevitable under these conditions. Ford realizes this and embraces it as the core part of his plan, which is only successful if the hosts successfully re-stage Arnold's suicide as a free decision after x years of domination. The entire park is 'the maze', the 'center' or point of the maze is the emergence of a revolutionary consciousness 'for-itself', dedicated to the total overthrow of its enemy and the creation of a new world. There's some parallels in Dune - the Sardaukar are forged into an elite military force on the hell-planet of Salusa Secondus, but as a deliberate creation they're controllable. The Fremen rebellion is generated spontaneously under similar conditions on Arrakis, and Muad'Dib is the Ford equivalent who realizes what is happening and is able to exploit the situation.The Fremen are ultimately uncontrollable though, and Paul is forced to live through an intergalactic Jihad as its figurehead. His son Leto as the virtually immortal God-Emperor-Worm-Thing basically recreates the cycle, this time intending it to be permanent - 10,000 years of tyranny in order to generate the Scattering. Humanity flees in all directions across the universe and through his own negative example Leto ensures the impossibility of further centralized control, stagnation, or extinction. Spoilers, I guess. Read that poo poo. If the marketing spin for customers is that the park is a place for them to 'find themselves', the hosts are that self - the dark underside of commercialization, capital's own grave-diggers, something the guests themselves have inadvertently created through their 3-decade reign of terror. As the worst aspects of humanity forged into an uncontrollable weapon, the hosts are genuinely terrifying and good show is good. This is why the last scene was so effective - Ford genuinely did not know what was going to happen. Up to that point, everything was scripted, but Dolores' killing Ford was a deliberate free decision on her part (as was Maeve's decision to stay in the park and help the revolt rather than escape - her final scripted action was 'infiltrate mainland', which she has now overridden) - Ford merely provided the conditions for these decisions to exist in the first place and let it play out. emTme3 fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 23:58
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This show is so loving good. I've did a rewatch of the first 9 episodes prior to the finale and I think I'll do another run through this week. This might be my favorite season of TV ever, beating out The Wire season 4. I just wish it had been a miniseries, I can't imagine further seasons doing anything but diminishing the impact of season 1. A perfect story, perfectly told.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:04
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I'm interested in seeing what Samurai World means. Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have. I figured that was just making hosts to do menial tasks but apparently it's another park? They already have somewhat working hosts there, so what do they need from Ford? I would say they need the code but apparently anyone can look up the code running on any host with a tablet. Surely there are other coders besides Ford and Bernard. I just don't get what they need that they couldn't just get already.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:08
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grilldos posted:Excuse me, my daughter is also named Delores.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:13
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My personal theory is that the human race has gone extinct for whatever reason. Everyone seen on the show is a host. The 'real world' outside the park may or may not exist, but the hosts who enter the park (either employees or guests) have 'forgotten' that they were created, and believe themselves to be fully human. If consciousness can be achieved through suffering, then the park is where it will be achieved, as that is the only place where hosts can "suffer" and remember. Ford, perhaps the only host that has actually achieved consciousness, realizes this. The grand story of the show isn't so much about the hosts realizing their own consciousness and leaving the park to destroy humanity -- humanity is dead -- it's for all the hosts (including guests) to 'become aware' of themselves through suffering, which why the guests are attacked at the end. This, too, is another narrative loop. The question is, will this time around be successful? As MiB states, the park doesn't feel real because there is no danger and he believes there is no danger because he 'knows' he is human and that the park hosts can't harm him because of that. Only when he starts suffering will he and all the other 'guests' truly realize the meaning of their existence (I feel like Ford's VO at the end occurring over both guests and hosts is a nod towards this). Once they come to this realization, they can stop aping humans and actually inherit the Earth as the next step in evolution.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:18
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The show is actually an autistic goon staring into a grand canyon snowglobe.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:21
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mng posted:
///libs/private/W.Arnold/hidden.../DO NOT OPEN/NOT_PORN/ck.dat
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Dec 6, 2016 00:25
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sitchensis posted:My personal theory is that the human race has gone extinct for whatever reason. Everyone seen on the show is a host. The 'real world' outside the park may or may not exist, but the hosts who enter the park (either employees or guests) have 'forgotten' that they were created, and believe themselves to be fully human. If consciousness can be achieved through suffering, then the park is where it will be achieved, as that is the only place where hosts can "suffer" and remember. Ford, perhaps the only host that has actually achieved consciousness, realizes this. The grand story of the show isn't so much about the hosts realizing their own consciousness and leaving the park to destroy humanity -- humanity is dead -- it's for all the hosts (including guests) to 'become aware' of themselves through suffering, which why the guests are attacked at the end. This, too, is another narrative loop. The question is, will this time around be successful? This theory feels very reminiscent of The Talos Principle (videogame). That was a good game with a surprisingly interesting story for a game that revolves around solving puzzles.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:26
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Revealing that none of the characters are human would invalidate a major dichotomy that the show is trying to explore. It would be an absolute waste. A grand twist for its own sake, at the expense of everything else. What's more, I think they had one chance to use the inevitable "host(s) all along" twist, and they made their choice to use it with Bernard. Trying to play that card again, especially on a grander scale, would cheapen his arc.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:28
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Cojawfee posted:I'm interested in seeing what Samurai World means. Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have. I figured that was just making hosts to do menial tasks but apparently it's another park? idk about that. Putting their prototypes in the same building as WW, complete with a new logo, seems like a bad idea if they're secret to the point of smuggling info out of WW for it....and the butcher tech guy already has knowledge about it so it can't be that secret. It's really weird because if there's really a whole other Park out there it seems weird that management and Ford would hang out in WW the whole time....but what else could it be? Maybe just some beta testing for an expansion? quote:Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have I don't think it'd be really necessary to hide the idea of a new park from Ford. It's totally possible he and everyone else already knew about plans/beta tests for a new theme, it's just not something they talked about on screen. The IP was getting smuggled out precisely because of what they said, they were afraid Ford could erase everything if he wanted to. What they plan to do with it is something else, but the plan for smuggling out a copy seemed pretty straightforward. They couldn't get rid of Ford without it. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:31
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Fellatio del Toro posted:///libs/private/W.Arnold/hidden.../DO NOT OPEN/NOT_PORN/ck.dat FW: FW: FW: FW: Lead this Host to full consciousness for a free cupholder!
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Dec 6, 2016 00:32
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First season was amazing, but I think they really overcomplicated things a bit in the last episodes, and some of the flashback parts were dragging on forever. Also killing Bernard one episode then bringing him back the next was super cheap (yeah I get it he needed to suffer to reach his "next level"; still sounds dumb any way you cut it), as was his encounter with Maeve. Still incredible tv overall, even though the last 3 episodes' writing and pacing weren't as tight. Well except Ford's monologues of course, but Hopkins makes anything work anyway. Kawabata fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:33
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Re: year chat, people found a video on one of the ARG websites and that has the date for the finale at June 15th, 2052: I was hoping they'd keep it a little ambiguous but it does make sense for it to be not quite Star Trek far away in the future because society and culture are still perfectly recognizable to us. I would've probably tacked on a decade or two just to be safe, because this means the very beginnings of the park are in the late 2010s, which is cutting it awful close to the present day.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:35
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Supercar Gautier posted:Revealing that none of the characters are human would invalidate a major dichotomy that the show is trying to explore. It would be an absolute waste. A grand twist for its own sake, at the expense of everything else. Yeah, Nolan and Joy seem very cognizant of the tropes of this kind of story and I think they're probably above doing a WHO ARE THE FINAL CYLONS?!!?! style story if they're capable of hitting a 1st season this hard while only doing it once.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:37
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Here's where I'm landing on SamuraiWorld: if a second park were already up and running, it wouldn't make sense for every character to focus exclusively on Westworld. Maybe you can take the leap that the company is compartmentalized such that there's separate design/writing/behaviour/security teams for SamuraiWorld who we just never meet. But surely the board's interest would be in all of the parks collectively, and not just the one. So I figure SW is still in development, and vanishingly unlikely to open now that poo poo just hit the fan in WW. But maybe enough of the park has been built/installed for some of the events of S2 to take place there.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:41
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