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cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

Landsknecht posted:

decision-based question making

All signs point to yes

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BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!
So according to Justin's goofy Buzzfeed poll the only places in Canada that share my values are Quebec and Newfoundland.

Interesting.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

BGrifter posted:

So according to Justin's goofy Buzzfeed poll the only places in Canada that share my values are Quebec and Newfoundland.

Interesting.
I don't understand why the polling company pre-polled and clustered the results in to those five categories. Sure, do that analysis with the final data set but why do a tiny rear end sampling to identify n clusters and then do a big poll to see how the data maps on to those clusters? That's bad methodology, I'm certain the number of significant clusters would be way higher than five in the final set. It's basically a summary of the problem with the current system: if I polled ten Canadians based on the data I might conclude that only LPC and CPC exist and the rest are weird outliers, so then I poll everyone else, push it through my model and find that Canadians are 55% LPC and 45% CPC. See the problem?

And if you're going to do some sort of PCA analysis then you need a waaaay better question set. Garbage in garbage out.

cowofwar fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 6, 2016

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

If you recall the ~eight principles~ the government introduced in April, it's easy to draw a through line from them to this survey

quote:

So the first principle. Electoral reform must ensure that Canadians perceive the outcomes of elections as legitimate. Canadians should believe that their intentions as voters are fairly translated into election results without significant distortion that often characterizes elections conducted under the first past the post system. This is one of those values that there seems to be consensus on.

Second, electoral reform must restore Canadians’ confidence that they can influence politics and that voting makes a meaningful difference. It’s vital for Canadians to be engaged and to participate in the democratic process more broadly and if we do this right, this can lead to higher voter turnout.

Third, changes to the system must ensure the kind of inclusive politics that Canadians want. This means selecting reforms that contribute to increasing civility in politics. This means, beyond that, restoring the public’s trust in their government and strengthening representation by encouraging greater diversity in both the House of Commons and in politics more broadly.

Fourth, reforms will likely lead to changes to how we vote, but reforms should not make the voting system overly complex.

Fifth, changes to the voting system should be designed to making voting more user-friendly and more accessible in the broadest sense of the world. This means reducing or limiting barriers that prevent Canadians from voting where possible, including time constraints, physical impediments and social conditions.

Sixth, changes to our voting system should take into consideration the relationship and accountability between citizens and their representatives in Parliament. Canadians value the understanding that local MPs have of their community. I know as an MP the love and appreciation I have for Peterborough–Kawartha is at the heart of the work that I do. And Canadians value that connection and the incentive for MPs to discuss and resolve their concerns. Local representation also has enabled our legislature to reflect the vast and richly diverse geographic span of our country.

Seventh, reform must protect the integrity and the security of the vote. Canadians need to know that election outcomes are based on objective and verifiable processes that protect election results from cyber or physical tampering and ensures that the secrecy of their votes is protected. This is particularly relevant to the conversation around online voting.

And finally, our electoral reform must fundamentally shape our democracy as one that inspires Canadians to find common ground, pursue consensus and encourage governments to cast a broad tent that seeks to include all Canadians regardless of their partisan positions.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Maybe I'm just super biased, but don't those principles just scream MMP? The very first one in particular just screams PR of some variety, and would already rule out their ideal option of AV/IRV.

Servetus
Apr 1, 2010
Somehow we wound up in a "Yes Prime Minister" sketch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002




Q. Do you like apples or oranges?

A1. Yes
A2. No

e: sorry hosed that up

Q. Do you prefer apples or oranges?

Strongly agree
Agree
Neutral
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Dec 6, 2016

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011




awe poo poo. No matter how many times I fill out that personality quiz, I keep getting Innovator. I said No to online voting, yes to paper ballots only, No you shouldn't be required to vote. How the gently caress is that innovative? I guess I came in pretty heavily in favour of fighting many duck sized parties, and that they should probably flock together, so maybe that's the innovation?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

You probably support radical policies like Proportional Representation. The survey knows.

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011




Unfortunately there was no options for Full Communism NOW! or Pay me my loving overtime, Christ it's been nearly a year assholes.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
According to mydemocracy.ca, I'm a Hufflepuff.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.



Buglord
The ONDP just called me begging for dollars. I never shared my info with them. Does the federal party share donor information? I didn't find my name on the elections Canada website donor list so I'm a bit miffed.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

right i keep forgetting about this

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Risky Bisquick posted:

The ONDP just called me begging for dollars. I never shared my info with them. Does the federal party share donor information? I didn't find my name on the elections Canada website donor list so I'm a bit miffed.

I'm pretty sure for NDP it's join both not one or the other.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

I just got a BCNDP fundraising phone call, was shocked to find out that the provincial party is apparently led by a man named "John Horgan" (?).

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

"We were just calling you in advance of the next provincial election, which we're going to win"
(caller laughs)

The Butcher
Apr 20, 2005

Well, at least we tried.
Nap Ghost

Powershift posted:

He obviously had 4 wheel drive engaged, a quick boot of the throttle and he would have avoided the cop car and slid gently into the fire truck at the bottom of the hill.

How often do you get to get away with ramming a cop car with a plow?

Dude will be telling that story to his grandkids.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

This is all you need to know about him:
"Horgan loves science fiction, especially Star Trek. His father died when he was a toddler, so having been raised by his mom and older sister, he thinks Capt. Kathryn Janeway is the best of the Star Trek captains."

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
A poisoned mind.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Baronjutter posted:

This is all you need to know about him:
"Horgan loves science fiction, especially Star Trek. His father died when he was a toddler, so having been raised by his mom and older sister, he thinks Capt. Kathryn Janeway is the best of the Star Trek captains."

This makes him sound like he was a child when Voyager was on air instead of a grown-up adult man in his 30s who can make his own drat opinions about things.

Also his Wikipedia page looks like it was written by a grade 9 student as a class project.

quote:

As the 2005 provincial election was approaching, the 45 year old Horgan won NDP nomination, against Julie Thomas of Shawnigan Lake in the riding of Malahat-Juan de Fuca.[10] The incumbent MLA Brian Kerr was not seeking re-election so in the general election, Horgan faced BC Liberal Cathy Basskin of Cowichan Bay, Democratic Reform BC party leader Tom Morino, Steven Hurdle who was a late-replacement for the Green candidate, a Western Canada Concept candidate. Polling showed Morino was drawing significant amount of the centrist vote so that it was a close race between the two top parties: NDP and Liberals.[11] Though Horgan won his riding, the NDP under Carole James's leadership formed the official opposition to the BC Liberals who formed an absolute majority government. Horgan was named opposition critic to the Minister of Education Shirley Bond. Horgan criticized the government's 2005 Teachers' Collective Agreement Act which legislated a new contact onto teachers, after several months of unsuccessful collective bargaining, as "inflam[ing] an already volatile situation".[12] In June 2006, Horgan was moved over to critic to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resource Richard Neufeld. Horgan called for the Oil and Gas Commission to provide more transparent reporting after it was claimed its annual 97% compliance rating was near-perfect, despite 2,500 known infractions, the majority of which were rated major or serious.[13] Following a sudden sharp increase in gasoline prices in early 2007 Horgan introduced the Retail Petroleum Consumer Protection Act as a private member bill which, if passed, would have put gasoline prices under the jurisdiction of the B.C. Utilities Commission, same as electricity and natural gas.[14] The bill was supported by an 18,000 signature petition[15] and elicited editorial responses from Minister Neufeld and Christy Clark.[16][17]

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

vyelkin posted:

This makes him sound like he was a child when Voyager was on air instead of a grown-up adult man in his 30s who can make his own drat opinions about things.

Also his Wikipedia page looks like it was written by a grade 9 student as a class project.

He's an adult who has public opinions about Star Trek, that says all you need to know.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




The problem more is that he likes Voyager and not DS9, which is objectively the best star trek

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

infernal machines posted:

He's an adult who has public opinions about Star Trek, that says all you need to know.

Public opinions about Star Trek: Jack Layton, Barack Obama

No public opinions about Star Trek: Tom Mulcair, Hillary Clinton

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
So you're saying he's in the company of the people who set up their party's demise with a move to the center and milquetoast governance? As opposed to the people left holding the bag.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

CLAM DOWN posted:

The problem more is that he likes Voyager and not DS9, which is objectively the best star trek

You're a cool guy with good opinions.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

As someone raised by a single parent I love the star trek with the childless crazy person as a captain and not the captain who has a strong focus on being a single parent trying to raise a boy the best he can.

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

":qq:Kelly Leitch:qq: posted:

I’ve never heard of this organization. I did not seek their endorsement. I do not want their endorsement,
To think my campaign is in any way based on ethnic nationalism is to be willfully ignorant of what my campaign is about.

My campaign is about National Values, dammit, not Ethnic Nationalism! How could you possibly misunderstand this?

Health Services
Feb 27, 2009

cowofwar posted:

I don't understand why the polling company pre-polled and clustered the results in to those five categories. Sure, do that analysis with the final data set but why do a tiny rear end sampling to identify n clusters and then do a big poll to see how the data maps on to those clusters? That's bad methodology, I'm certain the number of significant clusters would be way higher than five in the final set. It's basically a summary of the problem with the current system: if I polled ten Canadians based on the data I might conclude that only LPC and CPC exist and the rest are weird outliers, so then I poll everyone else, push it through my model and find that Canadians are 55% LPC and 45% CPC. See the problem?

And if you're going to do some sort of PCA analysis then you need a waaaay better question set. Garbage in garbage out.

There's no one 'true' cluster analysis on a given set of questions. They probably could have created four, or six, clusters and had perfectly respectable results. You can determine an suitable number of clusters by making a scree plot of the sum-of-squared-errors of a different number of clusters. A dataset of 3000 responses (which is what they trained the clusters on, and is hardly a 'tiny rear end' sample) is more than large enough to perform a cluster analysis, and the number of clusters is independent of the size of a data set. They 'pre-polled' because they wanted a representative sample of Canadians. Likely the final report will analyze the public survey and the representative survey separately.

PCA, or principle component analysis, is a tool to transform and reduce a set of variables into a smaller set of uncorrelated variables, and is distinct from cluster analyses, which determines similarities between cases, not variables. I'm not going to defend the question set, but the client for this survey likely wanted the study done a very particular way and gave them specific research objectives, and it's hardly fair to blame the outcome entirely on Vox Pop Labs.

Given the set of questions the cluster analysis likely has reasonable validity. The issue is more the particular research objectives, how the particular set of questions was determined, and the very small-minded approach to considering the space of potential outcomes. 'Engagement'. Ugh.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Baronjutter posted:

As someone raised by a single parent I love the star trek with the childless crazy person as a captain and not the captain who has a strong focus on being a single parent trying to raise a boy the best he can.

Janeway as written was an objectively lovely leader on many, many occasions, moreso than the other captains (except maybe Archer?) so the thought that people calling the shots IRL think she's cool is actually very mildly alarming

DS9 was more difficult to find in syndication in the 90's IIRC and it wasn't promoted as much after Voyager started on UPN so it makes sense that this would happen but still jesus loving christ

Then again the Liberals are exactly the type of scum that would watch the ones about the Sanctuary Districts and think "hey what a great idea!" so maybe it's better this way

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!
It shouldn't surprise me Horgan managed to find the only wrong answer to that question.

/bcndp

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
Can't wait for another university dropout majority in bc

The Butcher
Apr 20, 2005

Well, at least we tried.
Nap Ghost
It's 2016, I'll non-ironically judge a public figure based on who they think the best captain was.

Nothing makes sense and nothing matters anymore so who loving cares?

Janeway is totally the Liberal captain.

The Butcher fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Dec 6, 2016

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Helsing posted:

You've misunderstood both Trudeau and Obama. First of all Obama is not in any way weak, he just relied on liberal voters and was operating at a time of heightened liberal anger and frustration following the Bush years. The Republicans were an extremely useful source of justification for his awful healthcare bill, his attempts to cut social security, and various other policies he enacted at the behest of the donors who run the Democratic party.

As for Trudeau, he has never ever given any indication he has deep enough opinions to actually have strong preferences on a voting system. Whereas Obama at least had to work hard to get to the Presidency and has lived a life full of genuinely impressive accomplishments, Trudeau's biography is completely underwhelming outside his father and his current occupation. If you want to know why Trudeau gave that weird answer it's probably because he was willing to say almost anything in that moment to continue looking good. While their style of presentation is very different, the best equivalent for Trudeau would be another spoiled rich kid who will say literally anything in the moment to sound good, even if it doesn't line up with their previously stated actions of statements.

Trudeau is more accurately compared to Bush Jr.

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888
anyway, looking forward to 50 years from now when we do away with the sham of democracy and officially go back to hereditary rule

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
all star treks except TNG are garbage, you fuckin nerds

namaste friends
Sep 18, 2004

by Smythe
https://twitter.com/FuzzyWuzzyTO/status/805992608493355008

Reince Penis
Nov 15, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Pinterest Mom posted:

right i keep forgetting about this


Hey baby let's lay some pipeline :kiss:

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
And to think, it probably would've been so easy to shove him in front of a train...

EDIT: The Edmonton LRT racist, not Justin "Dreamy" Trudeau.

EDIT 2: How do you even do something like that? Who goes to the trouble of getting a noose just to be a racist dickwad to some people at an LRT station? Somewhere along the line, don't you realize that's a horrible idea and literally anything else ever is a better use of your precious time on this earth?

PT6A fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 6, 2016

The Dark One
Aug 19, 2005

I'm your friend and I'm not going to just stand by and let you do this!

namaste faggots posted:

all star treks except TNG are garbage, you fuckin nerds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g5THKsYBpI&t=22s

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Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

PT6A posted:

EDIT 2: How do you even do something like that? Who goes to the trouble of getting a noose just to be a racist dickwad to some people at an LRT station? Somewhere along the line, don't you realize that's a horrible idea and literally anything else ever is a better use of your precious time on this earth?

#BellLetsTalk

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