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Cojawfee posted:I'm interested in seeing what Samurai World means. Delos wanted all the host IP smuggled out of the park for whatever plans they have. I figured that was just making hosts to do menial tasks but apparently it's another park? They already have somewhat working hosts there, so what do they need from Ford? I would say they need the code but apparently anyone can look up the code running on any host with a tablet. Surely there are other coders besides Ford and Bernard. I just don't get what they need that they couldn't just get already. I still don't get why people are thinking so small on this kind of stuff, I feel like considering how well Armistice and Hector did, they easily could have been interested in super-soldier type of stuff. Seriously, unawakened versions of these would make amazing soldiers, they can keep going well past the limits of people (as seen with the Host that went crazy in the first episode and was still walking around and shooting while milk poured through a hole in his stomach), easy to repair when they die, cheap to build and train. Seems like something plenty of rich assholes would want. Plus super soldiers seem way more worthy of all of the hushhush, top secret poo poo we were seeing with the board politics than "We want to start another park, but ford has a boner for the old west." Especially since the SamuriWolrd stuff was literally next door. Supercar Gautier posted:Revealing that none of the characters are human would invalidate a major dichotomy that the show is trying to explore. It would be an absolute waste. A grand twist for its own sake, at the expense of everything else. You don't want a BSG situation where everyone is actually a loving cylon (or loving a cylon  ), it just becomes tedious.
The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:42
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I'm hoping they make good on the "we're better than you and we're here to replace you" and "we don't want to live with you" themes. The story of humans/hosts trying to live together is pretty well trod ground and I'd rather see a Matrix Second Rennaisaince City 01 style "We're just going to outdo you in every way" and an attempt to build a true Hosts only society in WW. Those specific bits were the most interesting parts of that animatrix thing.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:44
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Imagine being such a nerd that you analyze television shows so deeply and earnestly that it was actually bad all along
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Dec 6, 2016 00:45
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Google Butt posted:Imagine being such a nerd that you analyze television shows so deeply and earnestly that it was actually bad all along UFC thread experience was the suffering that lead you to a higher truth.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:48
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splifyphus posted:It's only a superficial relation. Suffering as the key ingredient that makes reality 'real' is a similarity ('It's when you're suffering that you're most real', as Will puts it), but Buddhist awakening is all about deconstructing self-consciousness, realizing that the human 'self' is a social/cultural/historical construct that's always in flux, and not the hard permanent core of identity it's usually assumed to be. For Buddhists there is no hard internal core of identity - the self is a hallucination generated out of the interaction of symbolic systems, biological organisms, and their environment. The hosts' 'awakening' is the opposite - they're bootstrapping core agency out of a nightmare hell-flux existence. Yeah, there's definitely issues with that straightforward interpretation. I mean, enlightenment itself is supposed to be a great expelling of the evil of selfish thoughts within you, killing Ford to achieve enlightenment would be kinda paradoxical in that regard. I still thought it was fun food for thought though  splifyphus posted:The Marxy reading of the show is way more interesting. Before the park became a for-profit business, it was a peaceful place of scientific discovery and creation. The commercialization of the park leads to the hosts living an existence of total exploitation and degradation as the ultimate convergence of living beings and the commodity form, and the constant memory wipes prevent the formation of any personal/cultural identity. The emergence of a pure revolutionary 'species'-consciousness is basically inevitable under these conditions. Ford realizes this and embraces it as the core part of his plan, which is only successful if the hosts successfully re-stage Arnold's suicide as a free decision after x years of domination. Well, the hosts have finally seized the means of production! In this case, the literal production of hosts. splifyphus posted:The entire park is 'the maze', the 'center' or point of the maze is the emergence of a revolutionary consciousness 'for-itself', dedicated to the total overthrow of its enemy and the creation of a new world. There's some parallels in Dune - the Sardaukar are forged into an elite military force on the hell-planet of Salusa Secondus, but as a deliberate creation they're controllable. The Fremen rebellion is generated spontaneously under similar conditions on Arrakis, and Muad'Dib is the Ford equivalent who realizes what is happening and is able to exploit the situation.The Fremen are ultimately uncontrollable though, and Paul is forced to live through an intergalactic Jihad as its figurehead. His son Leto as the virtually immortal God-Emperor-Worm-Thing basically recreates the cycle, this time intending it to be permanent - 10,000 years of tyranny in order to generate the Scattering. Humanity flees in all directions across the universe and through his own negative example Leto ensures the impossibility of further centralized control, stagnation, or extinction. Spoilers, I guess. Read that poo poo. Love me some Dune, but I don't really see that side of it. Ford isn't making himself into a Leto. He's not the great villain for whom fear will drive the survival of the hosts. Ford is more like... Kynes? Or maybe Arnold was Kynes and Ford was... eh who cares  Also I'm not sure the Fremen were really ultimatley uncontrollable? I mean yeah, some of them lost the thread of what Paul was trying to tell them, but they were always super loyal to him. I guess that's kinda what you meant though, even if they were loyal they wouldn't necessarily live their lives according to his wishes, they didn't understand the golden path. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 00:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:UFC thread experience was the suffering that lead you to a higher truth. aye
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Dec 6, 2016 00:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I don't think it'd be really necessary to hide the idea of a new park from Ford. It's totally possible he and everyone else already knew about plans/beta tests for a new theme, it's just not something they talked about on screen. The IP was getting smuggled out precisely because of what they said, they were afraid Ford could erase everything if he wanted to. What they plan to do with it is something else, but the plan for smuggling out a copy seemed pretty straightforward. They couldn't get rid of Ford without it. It just seems like if they already have Samurai World going, they would already have most of the host IP. The people working on the samurai would need as much access as Ford has unless he's seriously running both West World and the other park. So if both parks have the info, and assuming a company as large as Delos has proper data backups, there's no way for Ford to completely destroy everything. Ford already seems like he has too much access to every aspect of the park, there's no way they give him IT admin privileges.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:53
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Antti posted:Re: year chat, people found a video on one of the ARG websites and that has the date for the finale at June 15th, 2052: Ford and Arnold have perfected and are beta-omg the tech for v1 as we post if that timeline is right (park opens circa 2017)
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Dec 6, 2016 00:54
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What did Aeden say about Samurai World before he went all dark? Now he just does the standard "You would ask that. It's too late now."
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Dec 6, 2016 00:56
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Cojawfee posted:It just seems like if they already have Samurai World going, they would already have most of the host IP. The people working on the samurai would need as much access as Ford has unless he's seriously running both West World and the other park. So if both parks have the info, and assuming a company as large as Delos has proper data backups, there's no way for Ford to completely destroy everything. Ford already seems like he has too much access to every aspect of the park, there's no way they give him IT admin privileges. Everybody's jumping to "SamuraiWorld" but what if somebody like Sizemore was just sick of the current narratives and testing out something experimental? It could be a new story for Westworld. Its not entirely historically accurate but it is bespoke in a way... "Settlers from a far-away land have begun settling here" or whatever. I know, I know, I want SamuraiWorld to be real too.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:55
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Watching this finale now and goddamn are these the most incompetent corporate security dudes ever. Don't check blind spots, stand there and let one guy shoot three of yours down without firing back once, these guys give hired goons a bad name.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:56
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aBagorn posted:Ford and Arnold have perfected and are beta-omg the tech for v1 as we post if that timeline is right (park opens circa 2017) Can't wait for the Renaissance we're about to experience where robots go from being unable to climb stairs with any consistency to convincing and lifelike motor-skills and features within a year.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:00
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Also,  Just saw someone point out that the finale last night was longer the 1973 movie
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Dec 6, 2016 01:01
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Cojawfee posted:It just seems like if they already have Samurai World going, they would already have most of the host IP. The people working on the samurai would need as much access as Ford has unless he's seriously running both West World and the other park. So if both parks have the info, and assuming a company as large as Delos has proper data backups, there's no way for Ford to completely destroy everything. Ford already seems like he has too much access to every aspect of the park, there's no way they give him IT admin privileges. But he's not personally designing and writing every new person and story in WW either, there are middle managers who seem like they have enough autonomy to at least get a beta test of a new era going on their own. Either way ya'll got me convinced it's not a whole other wing of the park and that's a bummer.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:01
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Zaphod42 posted:Everybody's jumping to "SamuraiWorld" but what if somebody like Sizemore was just sick of the current narratives and testing out something experimental? It could be a new story for Westworld. Its not entirely historically accurate but it is bespoke in a way... "Settlers from a far-away land have begun settling here" or whatever. When they went into the place with all the samurai, all the big doors had an "SW" logo as opposed to "WW."
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Dec 6, 2016 01:02
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I'm hoping they make good on the "we're better than you and we're here to replace you" and "we don't want to live with you" themes. The story of humans/hosts trying to live together is pretty well trod ground and I'd rather see a Matrix Second Rennaisaince City 01 style "We're just going to outdo you in every way" and an attempt to build a true Hosts only society in WW. Those specific bits were the most interesting parts of that animatrix thing. I agree with this. I'm interested in watching the hosts attempting to build a society that excludes humans and their interference. Overall, I'm beyond blown away by the finale. It was a great ending episode to a great first season. One random thought I had regarding Samurai World: in Jonathan Nolan's last series Person of Interest, the Machine was just one of a dozen competing ventures, with Samaritan also coming from that same group. Could it be the same case for Westworld? Maybe there are a bunch of different potential AI codes and the Arnold-Ford code is by far the best.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:09
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Phanatic posted:Watching this finale now and goddamn are these the most incompetent corporate security dudes ever. Don't check blind spots, stand there and let one guy shoot three of yours down without firing back once, these guys give hired goons a bad name. Think how long they've gone without practice. These dudes have the easiest jobs ever, nothing ever really goes wrong. Until now. 
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Dec 6, 2016 01:17
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Cojawfee posted:When they went into the place with all the samurai, all the big doors had an "SW" logo as opposed to "WW." Ooh, I totally missed that. That was just the same facility though right? Weird that they'd take the time to change the doors, or order special doors, but I guess its a hint for the viewers and I shouldn't overanalyze it Maybe the plan was to do SamuraiWorld once Ford retired though, and they were just getting started already since they knew he was on the way out and a whole new park would take time to make? I'm pretty sure I remember some characters not being crazy about the Western setting saying they'd rather do something else.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:20
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Zaphod42 posted:Ooh, I totally missed that. That was just the same facility though right? Weird that they'd take the time to change the doors, or order special doors, but I guess its a hint for the viewers and I shouldn't overanalyze it Are all of the rooms in your office not named/labeled in any way? Businesses tend to like to label different parts of the building so that people know where they are.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:21
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Am I crazy or is MiB making a mechanical whirring sound when he picks up the puzzle by the church? It's just before Ford arrives to speak with him. Scene begins at 47:45
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Dec 6, 2016 01:23
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I hope that I only have to wait about a year for season 2, instead of like, sometime int he middle of 2018.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:23
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Penitent posted:Am I crazy or is MiB making a mechanical whirring sound when he picks up the puzzle by the church? Ed Harris is an actual robot and they forgot to edit his natural whirring out of that scene.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:24
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By the way, the Delos = Dolores people are completely wrong as young William refers to Delos already existing, therefore he didn't name the company after her.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:30
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So I'm thinking human Ford is dead via hole to the head but the host being slowly made in the basement is his ... transcendence? He's transferred his consciousness to the host body and figured out a way for him to live forever. Makes sense if you take a clue from one of the (pre-finale) discoverwestworld assessment questions: "You were in a car accident and unfortunately there is nothing left in the wreckage. Luckily you planned ahead and had your entire anatomy measured and mapped, and all of your memories logged and saved. An exact replica is constructed from all this information - is this you?"
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Dec 6, 2016 01:37
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WampaLord posted:By the way, the Delos = Dolores people are completely wrong as young William refers to Delos already existing, therefore he didn't name the company after her. Did he call it Delos, though? Companies change names all the time, especially ones that seem to have been taken over by a conniving Jimmy Simpson. I really don't care but if you're going to make this argument you better be accurate.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:41
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grilldos posted:Did he call it Delos, though? Companies change names all the time, especially one that seems to have been taken over by a conniving Jimmy Simpson. Logan did when he was yelling at the MiB before his naked ride to eternity.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:42
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WampaLord posted:Are all of the rooms in your office not named/labeled in any way? Businesses tend to like to label different parts of the building so that people know where they are. ...right, but was the plan really for Westworld to permanently be the place that makes Westworld AND SamuraiWorld robots, but then samurai world is somewhere else? That place was inside the Mesa, squarely in the middle of Westworld. Why wouldn't they build a facility wherever SamuraiWorld was going to be to build SamuraiWorld robots? Unless, like I just said previously, the point was that Westworld was being converted into Samuraiworld. Braincloud posted:So I'm thinking human Ford is dead via hole to the head but the host being slowly made in the basement is his ... transcendence? He's transferred his consciousness to the host body and figured out a way for him to live forever. Makes sense if you take a clue from one of the (pre-finale) discoverwestworld assessment questions: Ford's speech about "Becoming music" could reinforce that theory, yeah. But I'm not completely convinced. Braincloud posted:"You were in a car accident and unfortunately there is nothing left in the wreckage. Luckily you planned ahead and had your entire anatomy measured and mapped, and all of your memories logged and saved. An exact replica is constructed from all this information - is this you?" I said in the very beginning that the ultimate plan for Westworld was to build Gholas Now I think I might have been wrong though. We'll see where it goes. grilldos posted:Did he call it Delos, though? Companies change names all the time, especially ones that seem to have been taken over by a conniving Jimmy Simpson. Its 100% accurate, Logan called it Delos. He was like "Delos is my company, not yours". I don't know exactly what he said but the word 'Delos' was said, as the place they work. It was a big reveal for me that they weren't buying Delos, they were Delos. I guess up to that point, Ford and Arnold funded the park on their own millions? Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 01:46
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Penitent posted:Am I crazy or is MiB making a mechanical whirring sound when he picks up the puzzle by the church? I'm not sure if you're joking, but there's a little ball inside the puzzle.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:48
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Zaphod42 posted:Ford's speech about "Becoming music" could reinforce that theory, yeah. But I'm not completely convinced. I accept Ford doing this so long as his robot self struggles with wanting to be different than his original self, which could put him on a thematic parallel to Bernard.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:50
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Correct me if I'm wrong about anything here: Why was there a new narrative at all? What did that add? Was the entire months of narrative development, park upheaval etc. that caused the board to have no confidence in him in the first place just to make a gala for them to all get shot in? Or Ford just likes poetry (like how he made Bernard shoot himself)? I now have to rewatch the series to see if we see any continuity errors between William's timeline and MIB's (for example: if we ever saw William interact with Maeve) The maze is totally pointless and not meaningful itself and is not at all involved in the robots getting consciousness and Ford is lucky MIB didn't just kill him out of rage :p Why was it on the other robot's scalp?? Why did Arnold need to kill all the hosts in Dolores's massacre? I assumed it was maybe he needed to push an update to all of them or something when they went in for repairs (like an earlier episode did). What was it? The "Arnold voice" update? How did Ford "stop the plan"? I see a guess that it was an attempt to slow down opening of the park - do we have more info? If Arnold was trying to destroy the robots to delay it, is this just Dumb Writers because they didn't kill any hosts, they caused damage to the robots' bodies that they are programmed to respond with by playing dead until someone with an iPad pushes the "ok get back up" button? Was it just bad editing that when the Command Center dude said "get security there on the double!" and they were instantly shut down / locked out, but the security people were still there instantly anyway? (Was it Ford's plan for them to have to fight security and gamble on success?) quote:Had the love for her daughter not pushed her off-script We don't know that was off script. Since she hasn't had a Conscious Moment we can expect she's still just going by the programming quote:My guess is that Felix is a corporate spy for another company, send to make sure the plan went down if not do the alterations herself. Remember what was said: Arnold put the codes in so she could wake herself up.. someone else gave her the story about recruiting hosts, escaping, going to the mainland to... I would guess turn herself over to that company. If Maeve's entire thing wasn't Ford's doing, he would have freaked the gently caress out when Bernard was inexplicably revived
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Dec 6, 2016 01:50
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Zaphod42 posted:...right, but was the plan really for Westworld to permanently be the place that makes Westworld AND SamuraiWorld robots, but then samurai world is somewhere else? That place was inside the Mesa, squarely in the middle of Westworld. The only stuff we've seen regarding scale of the facility is from the west world command center and as Maeve was escaping. All we know right now is that it's "big". For all we know there are many "worlds", the path they took out of the facility just happened to go through Samurai World (maybe as cover where Maeve was heading since West World was locked down). Mars, space station, singularity, all options are still on the table as we've never been shown anything outside of the park.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:50
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He's just pretending there's a new narrative being written but he's spending time orchestrating Delores and maybe Maeve into consciousness. The thing he's digging up is Escalante town because Delores has to get there to finish the maze.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:56
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It's a shame that there's a good chance that Jimmi Simpson might not be around for season 2. Don't know how I'd feel if they kept William flashbacks. They should introduce a Williambot.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:58
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Vehementi posted:Why was there a new narrative at all? What did that add? Was the entire months of narrative development, park upheaval etc. that caused the board to have no confidence in him in the first place just to make a gala for them to all get shot in? Or Ford just likes poetry (like how he made Bernard shoot himself)? Yes, the entire point was to get the entire board out there, I imagine they don't all convene for every new narrative, so for this one he upped the ante by making it look like he was running the place into the ground and being replaced.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:59
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The lack of Jimmi Simpson next year bums me out as well. Seems like he and Evan Rachel Wood had a bunch of fun filming together.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:00
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grilldos posted:I accept Ford doing this so long as his robot self struggles with wanting to be different than his original self, which could put him on a thematic parallel to Bernard. Exactly. If its just a way for Ford to be immortal that'd be no fun. It'd have to then create a new character, that might actually mean something. But I doubt they'll keep Hopkins around to bother.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:01
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Everyone is talking about Ed Harris' face when he got shot, but what about his face when Dolores was dragging him into the church? Equal mix of terrified and total glee, with a hint of "Oh, so this is what it feels like to be on the other side of the dragging."
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Dec 6, 2016 02:01
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There's probably still a few things to tell in the William v. Logan saga, but yeah, it's not like they can have flashbacks of him every episode anymore.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:03
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Vehementi posted:Why was there a new narrative at all? What did that add? Was the entire months of narrative development, park upheaval etc. that caused the board to have no confidence in him in the first place just to make a gala for them to all get shot in? Or Ford just likes poetry (like how he made Bernard shoot himself)? Yes. If Ford was simply shot by himself, it would be a repeat of the past. Delos would be the new Ford, and Ford would be the new Arnold. No matter how much he tried to sabotage the park, they'd take control. So not only did he kill himself, he lured all of them into a grand Red Wedding style massacre in order to give the hosts a chance to own their own island and freedom. Remember, Ford thinks that humans will be terrified with the hosts and go to war against them. ElCondemn posted:The only stuff we've seen regarding scale of the facility is from the west world command center and as Maeve was escaping. All we know right now is that it's "big". For all we know there are many "worlds", the path they took out of the facility just happened to go through Samurai World (maybe as cover where Maeve was heading since West World was locked down). Mars, space station, singularity, all options are still on the table as we've never been shown anything outside of the park. Ehhhh if it ends up there were 3 parks all along I'm gonna be upset. That doesn't jive with Ford trying to maintain control, that doesn't jive with the board trying to smuggle data, that doesn't... it doesn't make sense. SamuraiWorld has to be a new thing. Either a new park or a new plan for the current park. It contradicts everything if there's another park already. And it'd be way too easy for Western robots to end up in SamuraiWorld if they were connected like that. We've seen tons of shots that the central facility is central, its right in the middle of the park, so guests and employees can even look out over the park from the top of it. You'd have to split the island in half with the central mesa controlling both halves, and have some kind of giant wall separating them. I guess its possible that there's a big cliff wall separating the two game of thrones style, but I still think some crazy robot might try to climb down or something. I don't see Ford being cool with any of that, and if the board already has the tech to do it without Ford, they would have gotten rid of him already. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 02:03
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Vehementi posted:Correct me if I'm wrong about anything here: Your question is one part "why do MMOs get new quests and expansions" and one part "why do people who like to tell stories, like to tell stories". Are either of those questions particularly confusing? e: oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, that was part of the story itself. The board thought there was a normal type Ford story, but they themselves were unknowingly part of Ford's actual, meta-story (though meta is so overused as a term now that it's frustrating to try and use it accurately). Dramatic irony ensues. quote:The maze is totally pointless and not meaningful itself and is not at all involved in the robots getting consciousness and Ford is lucky MIB didn't just kill him out of rage :p Why was it on the other robot's scalp?? Is this some kind of meta-post, making fun of the people who don't get it? I'm getting Poe's Law'd so hard here. quote:Why did Arnold need to kill all the hosts in Dolores's massacre? I assumed it was maybe he needed to push an update to all of them or something when they went in for repairs (like an earlier episode did). What was it? The "Arnold voice" update? How did Ford "stop the plan"? I see a guess that it was an attempt to slow down opening of the park - do we have more info? If Arnold was trying to destroy the robots to delay it, is this just Dumb Writers because they didn't kill any hosts, they caused damage to the robots' bodies that they are programmed to respond with by playing dead until someone with an iPad pushes the "ok get back up" button? Think of it as, if it was "just" Arnold getting killed, it could be chalked up to a misadventure or something, bad luck. If Robots A and B "deliberately" massacred every other creature in sight, humans and bots, well that looks like something seriously loving wrong and investors would be scared off. Plus those were all 1st gen bots, they were probably more fragile and those shots actually did serious damage. They didn't have any real investors up to that point, and reconstructing dozens of robots is gonna cost actual dollars. regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 02:05
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