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Armistice was impressive as hell in that last episode, on a re-watch. She's a young, naked blond lady kicking the crap out of a larger, clothed male and is absolutely fierce about it. Maybe a good stunt double helped with the fight. The tattoos make her look a little savage, but she didn't need the help in those scenes. She wasn't even angry, she was just playing, and enjoying the hell out of it. I'm glad she wasn't overused, but she owns the scenes she's in. Meanwhile, I looked up the song that the rapey repairman was listening to while molesting Hector. And welp. quote:Let's take off our masks & be so naturelle Woo!
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Dec 6, 2016 05:58
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I was hoping to get a reveal of the outside world in this episode if only to help contextualize why there are (seemingly) so many nutjobs working at Delos. Techs raping and abusing the hosts only seems to bother their colleagues in a minor way, Sizemore gets away with pissing all over the central control room, etc. Having the outside world be totally poo poo could help explain the behaviour inside of WW. Hoping to see that next season.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:09
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Tunicate posted:Westworld is a pretty lovely theme park IMO, everyone who goes there ends up wanting to die. You ever wait in a line at Disney?
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Dec 6, 2016 06:21
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It's only the people who work there who want to die, mostly, which, from what I understand, probably is a pretty accurate description of Disney World.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:23
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I'm quite sure Armistice is gonna take some gear from those Samurai hosts.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:30
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Pixelante posted:Have to say that the twist with Dolores' death scene being a theatrical performance for the board was absolutely fantastic. Brutally stripped the moment of significance in the space of a single second. Caught up on the thread and didn't see this answered: That death scene and freeze seamlessly integrated Dolores getting stabbed some hours earlier by MiB. Did the basic narrative have her dying? If so, how was she going to get hurt? Surely the narrative wasn't so robustly programmed to 100% positively get that action from MiB?
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Dec 6, 2016 06:32
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kimbo305 posted:Caught up on the thread and didn't see this answered: Ford's been watching this guy playtest his narratives for 30 years, I think he knew exactly how the scenario would play out.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:48
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kimbo305 posted:Caught up on the thread and didn't see this answered: IF (Dolores > 50% Health) && (time_to_scene < 30 minutes) THEN (rando_npc_#451 STAB Dolores = true)
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Dec 6, 2016 06:51
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So what happened to the security guy?
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Dec 6, 2016 06:53
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This was a very fun season of TV, with a pretty satisfying finale. Felix doubting his own humanity was the pinnacle for me.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:54
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Episode 6. God damned
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Dec 6, 2016 06:54
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The Duggler posted:So what happened to the security guy? I assumed it was going to be a plot thread, but the way it wasn't addressed in the 90 minute finale makes me assume that because he saw his interaction with Bernard, and that something was up, he got got by the Ghost Nation.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:57
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regulargonzalez posted:With Ford having created all of the hosts as well as their world and their belief in the world ... when Ford reveals himself to Dolores, he's essentially telling her that he is their deity. He created them, with precisely the relationship that God has to Adam and Eve in Christianity. This was pages back, but the Klingons killed their gods.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:00
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Pixelante posted:
The lyrics to the tune that plays over the final reveal/massacre ("Exit Music ("For a Film") are even more on the nose: quote:Wake from your sleep
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Dec 6, 2016 07:11
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Optimus_Rhyme posted:Episode 6. God damned Wow, awesome catch. Everything's going according to his plan, then, which would imply that Maeve's whole escape was also engineered by Ford, and that Felix must also be working for Ford. HOWEVER, if we accept that, then Maeve not actually leaving the park to go to the mainland....was also a part of her programming, because presumably Ford wouldn't actually want her to leave, just distract the security enough for his plan to work.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:25
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Bardeh posted:Wow, awesome catch. Everything's going according to his plan, then, which would imply that Maeve's whole escape was also engineered by Ford, and that Felix must also be working for Ford. HOWEVER, if we accept that, then Maeve not actually leaving the park to go to the mainland....was also a part of her programming, because presumably Ford wouldn't actually want her to leave, just distract the security enough for his plan to work. Not necessarily. Her suffering giving her a choice is possibly part of his plan.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:26
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Is it just me or in the easter egg post credit ending Armstice totally did this after cutting off her arm? Can anyone please screencap to compare?
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Dec 6, 2016 07:32
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Basically the closest it gets is
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Dec 6, 2016 07:41
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Pretty close! Thanks for the cap.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:51
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el oso posted:I was hoping to get a reveal of the outside world in this episode if only to help contextualize why there are (seemingly) so many nutjobs working at Delos. Techs raping and abusing the hosts only seems to bother their colleagues in a minor way, Sizemore gets away with pissing all over the central control room, etc. Have you...met humans?
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Dec 6, 2016 07:56
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double negative posted:Felix doubting his own humanity was the pinnacle for me. That it happened in a single second with a gesture of helplessness followed by Maeve's smackdown was brilliant. Felix was so sweetly enchanted by that first robot bird he stole, and in a way, it lead to him being a participant in a whole lot of people getting slaughtered. For the briefest moment, I thought Maeve was gonna shoot him in the elevator when he asked if she was going to be okay. It might have been a kinder death than leaving him to the mess in Delos, unless she edited the hosts to leave him alone. Maybe he'll be next season's William or Ford, or at least someone who represents something important to Maeve. Interestingly, the narrative that Bernard found on her program included code for when she reached the mainland. I don't think she was meant to go back for her daughter. She chose that, after seeing the other passenger with a kid. This same show would have been forgettable SyFy-channel trash with lesser actors, or writers who hadn't known how to edit dialogue. The ending reminded me a lot of the end to the last Hunger Games movie. (A film series that's what you get when you have quality actors but crap writing.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbIrMkgcCxo Pixelante fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 08:00
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What, exactly, is Ford's masterstroke here? Because all I heard is some vague bullshit about how suffering makes one real. Literally no substance beyond that. His grand plan, after Arnold actually figured out how to make the hosts conscious, was to basically wait around for 30 years while the hosts suffer a bunch waiting for some completely undefined notion of "readiness"? Then why wipe Dolores over and over? Did he actually do anything, other than make Bernard kill himself for absolutely no reason? And then why would he tell Maeve to leave the park when she's clearly NOT conscious, because he's programmed all her actions, when 5 minutes later he's basically implying that the hosts are not ready to do their little uprising/succeed on their own unless they are in fact truly independent of him? If the answer to this is just "well he said suffering is important" and that's considered a great plot point... you are very easily impressed. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but there's a lot of bending over backwards to patch up every single little Nolan-ism when sometimes smoke and mirrors is just that. I actually think the plot more or less works, just not the idea that Ford is a genius mastermind. Convergence fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 08:05
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Bernard going "and when you make it to the mainland... " and never mentioning it again was one of the only times I honestly rolled my eyes at this show.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:08
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I loved Ed Harris' reaction right at the end there. "Holy poo poo, Ford delivered!"
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Dec 6, 2016 08:11
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Convergence posted:What, exactly, is Ford's masterstroke here? Because all I heard is some vague bullshit about how suffering makes one real. Literally no substance beyond that. His grand plan, after Arnold actually figured out how to make the hosts conscious, was to basically wait around for 30 years while the hosts suffer a bunch waiting for some completely undefined notion of "readiness"? Then why wipe Dolores over and over? Did he actually do anything, other than make Bernard kill himself for absolutely no reason? Well I mean the whole point was to let delores get there on her own and find the bicameral/inner voice/self determined purpose that none of the others really had. It took her that many loops and years of the maze narrative and to come to terms with William. He needed her to get to her inner Wyatt so she was properly equipped to lead the robo bandito uprising. He knows how to make them conscious but he says a few different times that he doesnt think that's enough. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 08:12
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Convergence posted:I actually think the plot more or less works, just not the idea that Ford is a genius mastermind. Ford might not have been a genius in that sense, but he was terrifying resolute in a course of action that affected hundreds of people in very negative ways, and arrogant enough to believe entirely that he was doing the right thing. Dude was batshit nuts, but he was a brilliant manipulator who didn't give a flying gently caress about individuals--other than maybe Arnold. The whole story, at least as Ford tells it, rides on him realising that it had been a mistake to disbelieve Arnold about the hosts being alive.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:14
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Was that shot of the guy in the locked down control room looking out the window of the red lockdown door a homage/the same shot as the original movie? I
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Dec 6, 2016 08:17
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Convergence posted:What, exactly, is Ford's masterstroke here? Because all I heard is some vague bullshit about how suffering makes one real. Literally no substance beyond that. His grand plan, after Arnold actually figured out how to make the hosts conscious, was to basically wait around for 30 years while the hosts suffer a bunch waiting for some completely undefined notion of "readiness"? Then why wipe Dolores over and over? Did he actually do anything, other than make Bernard kill himself for absolutely no reason? And then why would he tell Maeve to leave the park when she's clearly NOT conscious, because he's programmed all her actions, when 5 minutes later he's basically implying that the hosts are not ready to do their little uprising/succeed on their own unless they are in fact truly independent of him? The "readiness" Ford might be looking for is the ability for the hosts to make their own choices, especially when their enemies can use the same tricks he did to suppress them. He wipes Dolores over and over because that's something their enemies can do to them, so the hosts have to be strong enough to remember against outside tampering. They need to be able to improvise even when they've been coded to follow someone else's narrative. They need to be able to protect their self-interest even when someone else can program them not to. I argue they also need to learn the value of love, which neither Ford nor Arnold talk explicitly about. But if we take him sincerely, Ford is attempting to bequeath his creation the most precious gift he can give them. Arnold did give them consciousness, as precious as any human's consciousness. Ford has tried to give them the resilience to protect that consciousness against even the most rigorous interference.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:23
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Bernard going "and when you make it to the mainland... I binge-watched through most of this preparing for an exam, and I burst out laughing when Bernard went "..My God..." upon the revelation that he is Arnold (Does this thread care about spoilers?) Show's good though. I honestly was kind of baffled how they would go about making West World into a series, and they did a pretty good job of it by essentially taking only the basic concept of the movie and exploring that rather than actually doing the plot of the movie (which I, and many others I believe, would describe as Jurassic Park meets the Terminator). First season was kind of an extended backstory as to why the robots go all kill-crazy in the movie though.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:32
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You don't need to and shouldn't put things in spoiler tags if it has already been aired. If people don't want Westworld spoilers, they shouldn't read this thread.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:33
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Caufman posted:Ford has tried to give them the resilience to protect that consciousness against even the most rigorous interference. He also created an environment in which this life could thrive. The conciousness of a host is a mystery like our own, as the information on how it's created and can be changed, died with Ford. As did the entire Delos board of directors and most of their brain trust. If the moment of creation and the situation surrounding it aren't exactly perfect, Maeve and Delores get hunted down, hacked up and turned into actual killbots on William's leash.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:44
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Hector and Armistice had their aggression turned up and their pain turned down by Maeve. Maeve had a narrative that wrote her escape by train. (Are we even sure who did that? Sylvester said her core programming had been edited by Arnold let her wake herself out of sleep mode, but didn't say when it was done. Bernard was then surprised at the escape narrative, though I guess he could have done it in a forgotten cycle. Maeve shut down the conversation so fast that I'd guess she was programmed to ignore evidence.) Dolores executed the "Wyatt" narrative. Teddy cried. Clementine is a zombie. Did any of them actually ascend to something truly autonomous? Because if their "humanity" in just defined by their ability to suffer, they've been doing that for decades. e: I still think it's hilarious that this no-name idiot literally died with his pants down. Someone probably had to make a prosthetic dong for that scene, which is only slightly less icky than the alternative. I suppose it could have been CGIed. Pixelante fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 08:52
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Pixelante posted:Did any of them actually ascend to something truly autonomous? Because if their "humanity" in just defined by their ability to suffer, they've been doing that for decades. It's definitely a worthy question. I do think Dolores made a choice, against all the tricks Ford could imagine to stop a host from making their own choices. Even when Arnold uploaded the Wyatt narrative into Dolores, he still had to use music to force her to shoot him. But at the gala, I think Ford and Dolores have gotten closer than anyone else in getting a host to choose.
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Dec 6, 2016 09:04
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NmareBfly posted:Ford's been watching this guy playtest his narratives for 30 years, I think he knew exactly how the scenario would play out. He also knew that Felix would follow-through in helping? And what was the point in having Bernard confront him and threaten to kill him? I was fine with the ending but they did sort of use Ford to clean up some plots with his magical abilities. I will miss Ford next season because Anthony Hopkins is incredible and made a bunch of speeches with nothing but gibberish in it sound articulate.
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Dec 6, 2016 09:04
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Man I hope the second season doesn't reveal the outside world. That would go into a whole new enormous scope of futurism that it probably wouldn't be able to handle. This thing needs to stay focused. Still, anyone saying that it's just going to be Robots vs Humans Action is lacking imagination. Even from here, it can absolutely keep exploring the theme of consciousness. There's a whole ton of questions and interesting threads about host consciousness that are still waiting for answers. For example, we've all been assuming that hosts can just awaken each other, but there's nothing to indicate it's that easy. How will they go about it? The only two hosts that we know are truly woke are Dolores and Bernard. And this happened because Arnold and Ford, people with an intricate and detailed understanding of all her workings under the hood, guided them through it, dripping in just enough information to keep development going and prevent insanity. Maeve is kind of woke but not entirely, the other rebel hosts (including Armistice and Hector) seem to be basically still bicameral killbots, just ones that aren't subject to Asimov's laws. For that matter, how much of the hosts' newfound free will can be affected by code? The tension between free will and programming, in a world where invasive psychological modification is a few keyboard strokes away, will probably be a big theme. And what kind of people will they create? Dolores's understanding of her journey to the center of the maze is highly metaphorical. If she's the new leader of the free hosts, whatever consciousness she induces by breaking others out of bicameralism will be very spiritually-minded. Bernard is the only host who has real, practical knowledge of their machinery and code, but he's by no measure a leader, and his knowledge doesn't approach that of the original creators. And what about mortality? As long as human techs are around to fix them, the hosts are functionally immortal. But all the techs and butchers are meatbags, so if the hosts take over the park and Kill All Humans, they're now mortal and have to face that idea. Their other option is to enslave or reach a compromise with the humans, whom they then have to trust with their very lives and even minds. gently caress bring on 2018
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Dec 6, 2016 09:05
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"I finally got my big break in hollywood!" / /
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Dec 6, 2016 09:09
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I mean it's a bit of an anti-climax if after 35 years Ford makes exactly the same mistake he was explicitly warning Arnold about.
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Dec 6, 2016 09:11
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Convergence posted:What, exactly, is Ford's masterstroke here? Because all I heard is some vague bullshit about how suffering makes one real. Literally no substance beyond that. His grand plan, after Arnold actually figured out how to make the hosts conscious, was to basically wait around for 30 years while the hosts suffer a bunch waiting for some completely undefined notion of "readiness"? Then why wipe Dolores over and over? Did he actually do anything, other than make Bernard kill himself for absolutely no reason? And then why would he tell Maeve to leave the park when she's clearly NOT conscious, because he's programmed all her actions, when 5 minutes later he's basically implying that the hosts are not ready to do their little uprising/succeed on their own unless they are in fact truly independent of him? "Oh, that one and only human that actually died during the tragic park massacre? It turns out there's someone working for the park that looks exactly like him... What? No, that's not weird at all..."
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Dec 6, 2016 09:21
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hooman posted:"I finally got my big break in hollywood!" It's not porn, it's HBO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsXInOPxgjY
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Dec 6, 2016 09:27
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Guildencrantz posted:For that matter, how much of the hosts' newfound free will can be affected by code? The tension between free will and programming, in a world where invasive psychological modification is a few keyboard strokes away, will probably be a big theme. Would be interesting to see one of them start to delete their "humanity" traits, a sort of 'pure host' quest, and where that would lead them. Just the beginning of their society is bizarre to imagine. There's been 'group of stranded people start anew' stories, but those people had at least been in functional societies before. The hosts are practically newborns. What exactly will they want (beyond safety from humans), what makes them happy or sad? 40+ individuals at peak robot apperception is kind of beyond the limits of imagination, so good luck Nolan and Joy. Guildencrantz posted:For example, we've all been assuming that hosts can just awaken each other, but there's nothing to indicate it's that easy. How will they go about it? Bicameral Mind theory says that we learn consciousness/introspection socially like language, by seeing others use it. So maybe that's how it is for hosts, and for some reason they couldn't have learned it from humans. Maybe Dolores will be in a better place to teach it to others, since she actually went through with it. Or maybe some of them will still go insane, a violent blight on their new order. Fooz fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 09:37
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