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Bloops Crusts posted:To further emphasize. It seems to be a popular and widely-held belief that if Bernie were to run against Trump in 2020, Bernie would be a shoe-in to win. To some extent that's all that Bernie was. Some left wing guy they found who hadn't been standing in Democrat primaries for 20 years like Kucinich (who might have won this time if he hadn't been running longer than fuckin Haile Gebrselassie).
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Dec 6, 2016 11:26
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Isn't there a separate thread for who should run in 2020? This thread is for DNC news, people accusing each other of ignoring reasons why Hillary lost, and using the word neoliberal til it loses all meaning. Now, on DNC news. Right wing blogs are taking the NoI attack on Ellisson and running with it, many declaring it as a sign American leftism is well and truly dead. I do wonder if that may force the hands of a lot of people on the fence. To not have the appearance of being on the same side as the alt right, they'd need to declare for Ellisson. Fulchrum has issued a correction as of 11:39 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 11:33
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Bloops Crusts posted:To further emphasize. It seems to be a popular and widely-held belief that if Bernie were to run against Trump in 2020, Bernie would be a shoe-in to win. There's nothing wrong about being a charismatic candidate, and very few Sanders supporters would deny that he has a certain charm. Also couple additional things, I believe Warren has already self-disqualified from running because she recognizes she is a policy person, and second, it seems to be a stretch to make any broad judgment on the basis of a hypothetical match up four years from now between a candidate who doesn't intend to run and a not-yet-president. I don't know how the American public would have responded to her, she is arguably much more well-spoken than Clinton, and much more credible in her beliefs. The rest of your post is grasping at straws, are you trying to claim that any platform could be made to win with a charismatic enough leader fronting it? Perhaps. The point is that Clinton was the candidate picked for the Democratic party, and given the limits of the enthusiasm she could inspire with her charisma, her most logical path to victory was an unequivocal commitment to an economic reform, the need for which was highlighted not just by Sanders, throughout the entire primaries. Finally you end up describing the Trump strategy in economic terms anyway, you are right that it isn't just neoliberalism vs. socialism anymore, it is now neoliberalism vs. socialism vs. protectionist fascism, because neoliberalism is the hated status quo and socialism has been methodically fenced out of political contests.
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Dec 6, 2016 11:52
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warren is also a serial lier like clinton
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Dec 6, 2016 12:09
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is she also a serial killer, i think we should look into that too
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Dec 6, 2016 12:11
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Elizabeth Warren is a lying stooge in the pocket of Big Indians.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:17
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she might even be possessed by the devil
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Dec 6, 2016 12:19
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Fulchrum posted:Isn't there a separate thread for who should run in 2020? This thread is for DNC news, people accusing each other of ignoring reasons why Hillary lost, and using the word neoliberal til it loses all meaning. The word hasn't lost its meaning. As I've said before, "neoliberal" is a lot like "racist" or "hipster," in that anyone who thinks it's meaningless, is one.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:30
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The word "liberal" has definitely lost all meaning when it can be applied to Goldman bankers who don't want to lynch gay people Also I appreciate that the discourse has switched from "Clinton was hosed over by events beyond her control and the DNC did nothing wrong" to "Clinton was hosed over by events beyond her control and also she was a bad candidate but that doesn't mean we need to move left!" because that is progress, but we're not quite there yet. Part of being a charismatic politician who can connect with people is having a clear thesis statement. For example Bernie did in fact have personal charisma, and this was both a cause and effect of his clear populist message. Hillary did not have a clear message (apart from "Donald Trump is a bad man and I think bigotry is wrong"), and this was both a cause and effect of her having trouble connecting with people during the general. In other words, we don't need to move leftward because that's secretly the ideology of most of the country (although a lot of rural folks would probably end up agreeing with socialist goals if they were pitched well), we need to move leftward because progressive populism is the only clear message we can use. Our main message this time around was "what are you gonna do, vote for Trump?"
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Dec 6, 2016 13:34
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logikv9 posted:I'm angry! Angry about comedians! Being angry about racists is ok, actually.
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Dec 6, 2016 13:42
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https://twitter.com/immolations/status/805999487974051840
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Dec 6, 2016 14:07
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Also I'm mad I missed someone unironically saying "if the Bernie Bros hadn't said the primary was rigged HRC would have won" (as part of a larger list) As everyone knows, a contentious primary with tons of factional salt where many bad things get said about the eventual winner will absolutely ruin you in the general election. It's just facts! That's why Barack Obama lost to John McCain in 2008, and furthermore it's why Donald Trump lost to Hillary Clinton this very year.
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Dec 6, 2016 14:12
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If Donald Trump had decided to cancel his campaign in September, Hillary would have won, imho.
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Dec 6, 2016 14:14
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so is there just not a uspol thread anymore or what
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Dec 6, 2016 14:14
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FizFashizzle posted:so is there just not a uspol thread anymore or what Yea it turned to poo poo because a flood of shitposters couldn't stop Bernie Bro'in and complaining about N N N NEOLIBERALS every 3 posts.
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Dec 6, 2016 14:20
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C-SPAM wins again
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Dec 6, 2016 14:20
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Homeless Friend posted:C-SPAM wins again
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Dec 6, 2016 14:23
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Doctor Butts posted:Yea it turned to poo poo because a flood of shitposters couldn't stop Bernie Bro'in and complaining about N N N NEOLIBERALS every 3 posts. I just don't get it. Didn't they understand that it was her loving turn???
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Dec 6, 2016 14:36
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Nerses IV posted:I just don't get it. Didn't they understand that it was her loving turn??? this is us pol thread wish we were cool thread clutchin' at pearls thread i'm postin' right now if hillary don't win i'll be dead i'll post in us pol thread and i don't really care if nobody else believes because i'm a goon on the spectrum per the dsm-v
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Dec 6, 2016 14:42
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polite applause
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Dec 6, 2016 14:45
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i'd just like to say that the primary was in fact rigged thanks very much for reading my post and i hope you will read the sequals
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Dec 6, 2016 14:47
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Nichael posted:They're not though. If she was plopped into the role of president, she'd be extremely qualified to do it. She can still be a bad candidate too. The role of the modern President has far more to do with being a media figure than actual policy crafting. You have to sell the public on your parties ideas in order to get enough appeal to make whatever it is you're passing viable. What you're really saying is Clinton would make a great staffer. As I and others have pointed out, she's legit not a leader in any real regard, and I voted for her. As loving awful as Trump is he's lightyears ahead of her messaging. In fact, the left right now really loves jacking it to the idea he won't get stuff done, but the reality is he might get a gently caress ton done because he's got the Republicans to do the leg work and he dominates the media.
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Dec 6, 2016 14:48
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loquacius posted:Also I'm mad I missed someone unironically saying "if the Bernie Bros hadn't said the primary was rigged HRC would have won" (as part of a larger list) Well the thing is Trump's victory was so narrow you can say literally any thing about why Hillary lost and probably be at least partially right. She lost Ohio because she rooted for the cubs. Could be accurate! Who knows!
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Dec 6, 2016 14:55
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loquacius posted:The word "liberal" has definitely lost all meaning when it can be applied to Goldman bankers who don't want to lynch gay peopl or its just kept the same meaning everywhere outside the US
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Dec 6, 2016 15:01
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Hillary would have never talked to the President of Taiwan. She'd keep selling them missiles (obviously), but she'd never say the evil words that awake the Chinese monster.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:01
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Hillary would not have been so gross as to try and save people's jobs at Carrier. She'd have used the secret backdoor channel of releasing a statement saying how we need to have good jobs, in America.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:03
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drat my dick is gettin really hard here thinkin about how good that presidency would have been <3 <3
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Dec 6, 2016 15:04
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hillary would've let energy transfer partners complete the dapl after she had the protesters forcefully removed by drones
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Dec 6, 2016 15:06
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Hillary would have been a poo poo president, anyone who thought she would be some Machiavellian figure that could destroy the Republicans was delusional and trying to make themselves feel better about their vote. She wouldn't have gotten anything done and DC would have been dead locked for 4 years. Can y'all even imagine the fight trying to get supreme court justices appointed if Hillary somehow magically given the election at this point? Our only hope in the case of a Hillary win would have been a strong 2018, and  if you think Hillary could have gotten the Democrats out in an off year that looks hopeless for them. And the Hillary fans who point out the many things that lead to her loss are like sport's fans who think the game was lost on the last play. No it wasn't, it was also lost on every single play leading up to the situation where they had to have a successful last play to win. Great teams put themselves in a position where that doesn't even matter. The Democrats are not a great team right now. Here's an idea, Hillary would have won if she hadn't done the personal email poo poo!
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Dec 6, 2016 15:06
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mugrim posted:The role of the modern President has far more to do with being a media figure than actual policy crafting. You have to sell the public on your parties ideas in order to get enough appeal to make whatever it is you're passing viable. What you're really saying is Clinton would make a great staffer. As I and others have pointed out, she's legit not a leader in any real regard, and I voted for her. Dude is completely unconcerned with the optics of his decisions. It's a little refreshing to actually see the wheels turning, even if they're pointed at a terrifying authoritarian kleptocracy.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:07
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Hillary would not have been so gross as to try and save people's jobs at Carrier. She'd have used the secret backdoor channel of releasing a statement saying how we need to have good jobs, in America. The carrier deal is such a solid ownage of the dems it is hilarious.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:07
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Doctor Butts posted:Yea it turned to poo poo because a flood of shitposters couldn't stop Bernie Bro'in and complaining about N N N NEOLIBERALS every 3 posts. to be fair, theyre right
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Dec 6, 2016 15:07
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dems have been thoroughly owned by trump paying carrier to outsource 1000 jobs
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Dec 6, 2016 15:07
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:to be fair, theyre right thank you jill stein voter sheng-ji yang
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Dec 6, 2016 15:07
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If Hillary won we would have to be fighting about who was going to primary her in 2020 after she could barely beat Trump. That conversation would be the most tiresome poo poo.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:08
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:to be fair, theyre right nah
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Dec 6, 2016 15:08
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comingafteryouall posted:If Hillary won we would have to be fighting about who was going to primary her in 2020 after she could barely beat Trump. That conversation would be the most tiresome poo poo. nah we'd be trying to guess whether tom cotton would be able to secure a filibuster proof majority for 2020 or not
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Dec 6, 2016 15:09
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Yinlock posted:thank you jill stein voter sheng-ji yang youre welcome
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Dec 6, 2016 15:10
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Yinlock posted:dems have been thoroughly owned by trump paying carrier to outsource 1000 jobs See you're talking about facts. All that matters are tweets/headlines that say "Trump saves Carrier jobs". Asking people to read any more than that is a losing prospect. Dems got owned
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Dec 6, 2016 15:11
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Yinlock posted:dems have been thoroughly owned by trump paying carrier to outsource 1000 jobs
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