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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The first time I saw the scene at the end of Episode 7 I thought Ford made Bernard kill himself because he was disappointed that he didn't see things Ford's way. Now I read it as Ford was upset that Arnold after all this time doesn't agree with him which kind of cemented the idea that he's going to commit suicide by Dolores like Arnold did Nice catch!
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Dec 6, 2016 17:15
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One thing I haven't seen mention is that quite a few people, myself included, thought the whole rape in episode 1 was a bait-and-switch. Quite a few people posited that he was actually going to scalp Dolores (like that's better I guess?) to find the maze, or otherwise threaten her. But no, seems like he did rape her after all - there was no clear indication otherwise.
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Dec 6, 2016 17:25
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Thematically, it makes more sense that he stabbed her again. By the time that scene takes place, he's stabbed Maeve and got a reaction from her that he's trying to re-create. This also brings his final scene in ep 10 with Dolores full-circle, where he stabs her again. We have no indication that Ed Harris William is sexual at all, and a rape in that scene would be extremely out of character.
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Dec 6, 2016 17:53
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grilldos posted:We have no indication that Ed Harris William is sexual at all, and a rape in that scene would be extremely out of character. At least we know he has a daughter so all the tumblrinos can't declare him their god of asexuality.
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Dec 6, 2016 17:56
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grilldos posted:Thematically, it makes more sense that he stabbed her again. By the time that scene takes place, he's stabbed Maeve and got a reaction from her that he's trying to re-create. This also brings his final scene in ep 10 with Dolores full-circle, where he stabs her again. We have no indication that Ed Harris William is sexual at all, and a rape in that scene would be extremely out of character. Plus, he tried to shoot her, but Dolores pointedly disarmed him (almost literally!). Ford probably arranged for that specifically. MiB has two weapons. Well, three if you count novelty cigars...so getting rid of the gun means he'll fall back to his blade. 
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Dec 6, 2016 18:01
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I guess I'll be the guy who brings up the Ed Harris Truman Show thematic connections with Westworld. There's nothing really to talk about there other than: Ed Harris in hats.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:01
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grilldos posted:I guess I'll be the guy who brings up the Ed Harris Truman Show thematic connections with Westworld. There's nothing really to talk about there other than: Ed Harris in hats. Good morning! And in case I don't see you, I shall have such revenges on you, what they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth!
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Dec 6, 2016 18:06
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Arnold looks at Delores. "This existence would be hell for you hosts. So I'm rewriting your personality. Now you're a consummate method actors and think this is fun."
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Dec 6, 2016 18:11
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Good morning! And in case I don't see you, I shall have such revenges on you, what they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth! 
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Dec 6, 2016 18:13
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Variety has an interview with Jonny Nolan and Lisa Joy that is worth a read. Hopkins knew his full character arc and is part of why he was so good.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:15
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grilldos posted:Variety has an interview with Jonny Nolan and Lisa Joy that is worth a read. Hopkins knew his full character arc and is part of why he was so good. Link isn't working for me  E: weird, I went to Variety and found it up there with the exact same URL. The most interesting part to me: quote:
E: the comments underneath are gold quote:Stupid to wait until 2018. The Nolan’s in general are just idiots when it comes to scheduling. quote:Sorry, not waiting that long. I’ll watch the finale and kiss HBO and the show goodbye. Bardeh fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 18:20
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What a fun episode. What a fun season. For all the people who don't like endless nerd theorizing, I'm not sure if you are new to TI/IV threads about post-LOST Nolan/Abrams type shows or not. But that's how it's going to be. fadam posted:If the maze is the Host's journey for consciousness what's the deal with the symbol being everywhere and the little girl and armistice giving clues to Old William. But beyond all that, the real reason is that it is because it's a TV show, and they looked cool in a "oohh what does *this* mean?" sort of way. Ashrik fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 18:36
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^ works for me on desktop.grilldos posted:We have no indication that Ed Harris William is sexual at all, and a rape in that scene would be extremely out of character. I don't see how that follows. He had a wife with at least 1 kid, he was into Dolores sexually for at least one point in his trips, and the implied rape scene is clearly indicative of something sexual/rape. Even the knife is a classic Freudian symbol (penetration, violence/sex, blood, etc.). I also don't see how it's out of character. That said I agree he didn't rape her. I suspect Kissy's actor dying and the abandoned scalp plotline coupled with the production issues led to no answer as to what actually happened in that barn. Maybe it'll be relevant in season 2 and we'll find out then? Or it might just be non-relevant.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:37
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quote:Finally, “SW” stands for Samurai World, right? lol, bastards
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Dec 6, 2016 18:38
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I think Armstice blowing in to Felix's ear in the elevator is a nod to Bladerunner. I think I remember Pris doing similar thing to Sebastien.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:53
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So after everything in the Finale happens, was there really a need for Ford to kill Theresa? She wasn't a threat to him and his plans, because everything happened (presumably) to his timetable anyway.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:03
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Caufman posted:The "readiness" Ford might be looking for is the ability for the hosts to make their own choices, especially when their enemies can use the same tricks he did to suppress them. He wipes Dolores over and over because that's something their enemies can do to them, so the hosts have to be strong enough to remember against outside tampering. They need to be able to improvise even when they've been coded to follow someone else's narrative. They need to be able to protect their self-interest even when someone else can program them not to. I argue they also need to learn the value of love, which neither Ford nor Arnold talk explicitly about. I don't know if Arnold gave the hosts "consciousness". He ordered Dolores to shoot him, and she shot him. What he gave the hosts seem to be the "cornerstones". Sometime like the foundation to be self aware and understanding one self. What Ford gave the hosts, imo is the ability to make their own decisions, which is closer to consciousness to me.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:03
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whatever7 posted:This is actually an error on the writers' part. Watch the diner scene between Ford and Theresa, Ford says Arnald bet him not to let the moneymen and Delos come in. So the Delos money comes in before Arnold is killed. No continuity error, Logan in his first episode says his company has been looking at the park previously, hence them getting a discount. This can easily be construed as early funding, before going full bore after William's visit. A lot of people turning Westworld around and around to find the cracks, I guess.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:04
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I'mma miss Jimmi Simpson, dude deserves to have serious work.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:08
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Mulva posted:I'mma miss Jimmi Simpson, dude deserves to have serious work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGxan6FUjSY
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Dec 6, 2016 19:10
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Optimus_Rhyme posted:Episode 6. God damned Cool cool cool. So the host that William met first in his timeline (or flashback or whatever). Did she really gain sentience or was Ford just giving her her lines to Teddy ("maybe in the next life" and asking him to join Delores). She is an old bot so the possibility is there, but I'm thinking she's probably just faking it while reflecting some truth, like Delore's death scene's particular lines (something akin to believing the world is beautiful, but not the people currently in it). Very foreshadowing, very playful on at least two levels, very Ford. gently caress, he was good in his job. Might be fav writer character in a long, long time. EDIT: regulargonzalez posted:With Ford having created all of the hosts as well as their world and their belief in the world ... when Ford reveals himself to Dolores, he's essentially telling her that he is their deity. He created them, with precisely the relationship that God has to Adam and Eve in Christianity. Off the top of my dome, Greek myth, Aztec, possibly Olmec, and I think Aboriginal? Also if you're into Zoroastorianism (I think) and gnostic stuff, rising above some sort of demigorgic figure is pretty central. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 19:11
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Westworld is really good at foreshadowing.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:13
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Bardeh posted:We didn't see him die, and we know that Ed Harris is signed on for season 2. So, nope, he didn't die. He's finally got what he wanted - hosts that fight back. Agreed. What has me convinced that he makes it is the amount of time spent on establishing how he's seeking a challenge in which hosts can truly fight back followed by the look of glee on his face when a repeating rifle round actually went through his left shoulder.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:15
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Potato Salad posted:Agreed. What has me convinced that he makes it is the amount of time spent on establishing how he's seeking a challenge in which hosts can truly fight back followed by the look of glee on his face when a repeating rifle round actually went through his left shoulder. That was my favorite thing in the whole finale, just how happy he looked. Plus now both his arms are hosed up, I'm pretty sure--Dolores dislocated his right shoulder and he got shot in his left, right? I hope season 2 lets us see him scramble for his life with two injured arms and a big, stupid grin on his face.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:16
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Blazing Ownager posted:
Make a young Ford bot played by Mads Mikkelsen.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:17
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MattLochNessMonster posted:So after everything in the Finale happens, was there really a need for Ford to kill Theresa? She wasn't a threat to him and his plans, because everything happened (presumably) to his timetable anyway. I assume letting the board know that he's printing unlicensed/unregistered Hosts in a secret bunker out in WW would have had the effect they were looking for with the Clementine demonstration. They could have halted his "new narrative" while pushing him out instead of letting him use the last of his influence to get it done.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:27
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Mulva posted:I'mma miss Jimmi Simpson, dude deserves to have serious work. He probably will, if he gets half the heat HBO-level actors from GOT end up with he's about to make a move upwards.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:27
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Guildencrantz posted:
I'd only slightly disagree with this. Ford said that Bernard pushed robots farther than they have ever been, for example programming a range of emotions instead of just a few. But he could still be limited by his coding of course. It'll be interesting to see himself try to work on it himself, see that singularity happen in real time baby.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:31
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Intel&Sebastian posted:He probably will, if he gets half the heat HBO-level actors from GOT end up with he's about to make a move upwards. That's pretty much a guarantee. He's played a minor role in a major Netflix show, a major role in an HBO show. I guarantee someone is saying "get that West World guy for this part."
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Dec 6, 2016 19:33
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Potato Salad posted:Agreed. What has me convinced that he makes it is the amount of time spent on establishing how he's seeking a challenge in which hosts can truly fight back followed by the look of glee on his face when a repeating rifle round actually went through his left shoulder. Honestly it looked more like a graze to me
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Dec 6, 2016 19:45
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Quick Draw McGraw posted:Honestly it looked more like a graze to me I dunno, a fairly big chunk of his arm gets blown off. In TV, it's just a flesh wound, but in real life he would totally bleed out and die without medical attention.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:47
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Gotta admit I spent half the william scenes either thinking or saying "FORKSTABBED!"
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Dec 6, 2016 19:52
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WampaLord posted:I dunno, a fairly big chunk of his arm gets blown off. In TV, it's just a flesh wound, but in real life he would totally bleed out and die without medical attention. It was more than a graze but he wasn't hit in the shoulder. The impact looked like it was in the upper arm.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:58
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Yeah, it was definitely an upper-arm graze, or a flesh-only through-and-through. He'll bleed a lot and in real life it'd certainly be a medical emergency but he can survive something like that on his own if he knows how to stop the bleeding (which I'm guessing he does).
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Dec 6, 2016 20:00
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Oh definitely, William-in-Black has some survival skills. He gave Teddy a blood transfusion using Wild West equipment.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:02
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Vulture seems to have paid a lot of money to get the Nolan/Joy scoops. Here's Brother Nolan: quote:In the finale, when Maeve gets onto that train ... the Steadicam is leading her over. Now, it’s just keeping pace with her as she makes the decision. What we understand in the moment is it’s the first real decision she's made all season. Which is, she's not going to fulfill the script she's been given, which is to take this train wherever it's going, and do whatever else she's programmed to do. She can get off the train. At which point, we shift to handheld camera, which we'd held back on throughout the entire season until one moment with her, and one moment with Dolores, when Teddy comes to rescue her. We get Maeve off the train with a handheld camera. And I remember watching the dailies and almost being shocked at how effective a cinematic technique can be if you hold off on it for long enough. If you dial it in at just the right moment, that suggests she's literally like a train coming off the tracks. We're no longer in programmatic or prescribed behaviors. She's improvising, and we're right there with her.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:02
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jisforjosh posted:It was more than a graze but he wasn't hit in the shoulder. The impact looked like it was in the upper arm. Do you have me mixed up with someone else? I said arm, not shoulder.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:03
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The one thing I really cant get past in the finale was Logan riding off into the sunset. I mean, did he die? Did that kill him? Nobody from the park is around to rescue guests that wander to far? What the gently caress happened that allowed William to take over the company? It was just way too loose of an end there.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:04
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grilldos posted:Vulture seems to have paid a lot of money to get the Nolan/Joy scoops. I am pleased he's confirming that Dolores made a choice, and that Robert Ford himself died on the stage. We don't have to spend the next two years wondering if it's another twist!
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Dec 6, 2016 20:05
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Vulture article posted:The topic came up during a discussion about recurring shots and filming techniques in the first season: As Nolan explained, Steadicam shots indicate that hosts are doing what they've been told to do, but handheld shots indicate that they're acting on their own. That's pretty boss Edit: A bit later they mention that it's first used with Delores when Teddy comes to save her....so confronting the whole truth about William was when that happened for her. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 20:05
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