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Yeah, it came up earlier that it might be useful to use defective blocks and laser them down to 2C for a 6C part, but nothing like that has shown up in rumors. It would be pretty expensive to just ditch those blocks, but the full stack hasn't been announced just the general architecture. It kinda has me worried. E: at this point I think everyone would be happier if AMD never touched GloFo again.
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Nov 30, 2016 02:32
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They're surely going to have harvested chips they can sell as 6C.
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Nov 30, 2016 05:06
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I am entirely doubtful they will ever do 6c products because of the double-core-complex layout of Zen. Given that there are zero rumors or talk of hexacore Zen leads me to believe that AMD's focus is that if you can saw it in half and get one good quadcore out of it, you do so. So: Any case where a pair of vertically-adjacent cores are flawed, I expect AMD to saw that chip in half and sell a quadcore + a duocore. Any case where the flaws land on the interconnect portions of the chip, I expect AMD to saw that chip in half and sell 2 quadcores. Any case where the flaws land on the L3 cache, I expect AMD to saw that chip in half and sell a fully functioning quadcore and a quadcore with less L3. If any 6c parts do exist, I expect them to be because the flaws are like, all the way on the left side of the chip, or all the way on the right side of the chip, and they accumulated a lot of them during production right now that they kind of *have* to make an extra SKU. But that seems like a really niche case. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 05:35
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How likely is it again that SMT would be flawed on a chip? I'd definitely dive on a true octocore but I don't really need more than 8 threads, so 8C/8T sounds good to me. The other likely startification is how quad get harvested as pointed out by SAD, maybe some quads ramp up in clocks terribly or have poorer performing L3 - boom, 65W, 95W and unlocked quadcores. 8 core chips are likely to be much less defective overall so you'll get 95W and unlocked versions, I don't see much use case for a 65W octocore for the average enthusiast or consumer, especially with no iGPU.
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Nov 30, 2016 11:47
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If the Zen chips end up being powerful and affordable, should we expect to see prices drop significantly on the existing AM3+/FM2+ components over the next year or just minor ones until they just get phased out of the marketplace and get hard to find?
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Dec 1, 2016 08:44
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JediTalentAgent posted:If the Zen chips end up being powerful and affordable, should we expect to see prices drop significantly on the existing AM3+/FM2+ components over the next year or just minor ones until they just get phased out of the marketplace and get hard to find? Unlikely, if anything AM4 boards and low end chips will be super affordable to nudge people to switch. It'd be cool for the consumer but it's likely that affordable AM3+/FM2+ will just convince people to go with that option unless they want Zen specifically. AM3+ is the best candidate if it does happen though.
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Dec 1, 2016 09:16
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JediTalentAgent posted:If the Zen chips end up being powerful and affordable, should we expect to see prices drop significantly on the existing AM3+/FM2+ components over the next year or just minor ones until they just get phased out of the marketplace and get hard to find? There might be a small jump in the used market but I doubt anyone but the hardest of hardliners haven't shifted to Intel yet.
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Dec 1, 2016 09:39
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I'm tempted to do another AM3+ build if the FX-8xxx lines dropped significantly. I've got a spare Win 8.1 license that I bought that I read won't work with Zen, anyway, so I've got to use it for something, I guess. *edit: Or if Zen makes Intel drop their existing CPU prices in response, just go that route.
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Dec 1, 2016 09:53
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JediTalentAgent posted:I've got a spare Win 8.1 license that I bought that I read won't work with Zen, anyway, That still works as a Windows 10 licence. Even Windows 7 keys are reportedly still being accepted.
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Dec 1, 2016 10:01
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HalloKitty posted:That still works as a Windows 10 licence. Even Windows 7 keys are reportedly still being accepted. I did this exact thing with my win8.1 key, don't let doomposters keep you away from whichever hardware you would like
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Dec 1, 2016 10:06
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That's cool. I thought that the deadline to redeem Win 10 if you had a copy of 8.1 had passed so I was going to be a bit stuck. To be honest, I'm sort of always gone for AMD in computers for the last several years, but I don't know if the price/performance in the past has always hit a sweet spot for me. My Duron 900 was a really cheap machine I did a ton with for about 5 years. My Sempron 3000+ was similarly probably a sub-$500 build in 2006 and it lasted me about 7-8 years with no upgrades. I'm on 4 years with an AM3 Athlon, etc. I'm sort of so intrigued by the Zen thing that I'm sort of willing to hold off a build of anything until those start rolling out.
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Dec 1, 2016 10:14
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JediTalentAgent posted:That's cool. I thought that the deadline to redeem Win 10 if you had a copy of 8.1 had passed so I was going to be a bit stuck. The deadline did pass, but enforcement has been very lax. A little googling should inform how to keep claiming a Win 10 license.
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Dec 1, 2016 16:01
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JediTalentAgent posted:I've got a spare Win 8.1 license that I bought that I read won't work with Zen, anyway The actual thing there is that Windows 8.1 may not support all new features of the new chips, similarly to how it also wouldn't support all the new features of Intel chips. Windows 8.1 will still run just as well as it did on current chips. This sort of thing has always happened.
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Dec 1, 2016 17:28
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The only thing blocked is upgrading from an existing install and even that works if you use the assistive services user installer
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Dec 1, 2016 18:49
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TL;DR: Microsoft really REALLY loving want people off of 7 so they can harvest your delicious, delicious user metadata so they can use it to make even more money lifetime than someone shelling out for a license one time.
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Dec 1, 2016 18:55
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Would also be nice to not have to deal with the security nightmare that was the twilight years of XP.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:39
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Rastor posted:The deadline did pass, but enforcement has been very lax. A little googling should inform how to keep claiming a Win 10 license. If my experience was any indicator, enforcement was way past "very lax" - I literally got on MS support chat, told them I had a PC I upgraded from 7 to 10 that had a hard drive crash, and they gave me a "special" ISO for the 10 upgrade I could use to boot off DVD/USB. Used it on the crashed PC and 2 PCs I have at home (7 and 8.1) and they all upgrade/activated no problem.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:39
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SwissArmyDruid posted:TL;DR: Microsoft really REALLY loving want people off of 7 so they can harvest your delicious, delicious user metadata so they can use it to make even more money lifetime than someone shelling out for a license one time. Uh, no? All that stuff is in Windows 7 anyway and has been for over a year now. And very very few people actually purchase Windows licenses intentionally, instead of just getting it with a new computer. The last time regular Joe Public buying a Windows license on his own was a major cash driver was like the Windows 95 launch - and pretty much just that. Sure there's still millions of people buying their own licenses, but there's billions of people using Windows computers, so it ends up being a drop in the bucket.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:28
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I am entirely doubtful they will ever do 6c products because of the double-core-complex layout of Zen. Given that there are zero rumors or talk of hexacore Zen leads me to believe that AMD's focus is that if you can saw it in half and get one good quadcore out of it, you do so. So: You think they will build their chips in such a way that they can cut an 8-core chip into separate dice after testing? That seems very crazy and not something I've heard of being done when you could just do normal die harvesting stuff. I mean including enough slack area for the laser cutting is going to make a bunch of lines in the interconnect area way longer, you somehow need to properly terminate a line you cut in half. None of this makes any sense, I assume they will just be doing standard die-harvesting stuff.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:00
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fishmech posted:Uh, no? All that stuff is in Windows 7 anyway and has been for over a year now. Yes, Windows 7 (if you installed the telemetry updates) and 10 share some of the same data-slurping habits, but 10 surely has more in number, Cortana, to name one. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 21:35
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This is what we presently know to be a die shot of Zen. I know, that's a promo shot they've been running for almost a year now. AMD was throwing us a bone and we didn't even realize it until several months in. That said, we can infer from the die shot that it's built something like this:  If there is a reason for AMD to separate the two blocks of cores apart from eachother, instead of having them all sharing one contiguous bit of L3, or even just brought closer to eachother, that is between Jim Keller and whatever higher power he may or may not pray to. Now, I acknowledge there's no way to just saw a chip in half here without separating the Southbridge interface to one side and GMI links to the other, and people closer to the industry than I am have more or less agreed that the above regions are correct, but what nobody has been able to identify is the stuff surrounding the complexes and what function it provides. And I don't have any expectations that AMD will be explaining anytime soon. Most certainly not at the event in two weeks.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:38
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They're not going to literally saw chips in half to harvest the defective ones. Nobody does that. They just disable a core or two as needed, and AMD even has a history of half-assing it (see: tri-core Phenoms being unlocked into unstable quads).
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Dec 1, 2016 23:47
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AMD GPU's for future Intel iGPU's? Well they had a good stock bump today probably from this. Hopefully it is true.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:56
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this seems like more of a "i want to see what our gpus will do in fabs that are not retarded sooner than samsung and tsmc can start production on any of our poo poo" thing than intel throwing in the towel on their igpu, intel has top notch accelerated media playback efficiency and to toss that away just because game performance is rear end is insanity
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Dec 6, 2016 19:03
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True they have the media accelerator part down pat, but it's not like Discrete GPU's have been lacking in that area either. Maybe they can combine the tech and call it some sort of new iGPU name? Overall though I thought that too, if AMD can get their GPU's to be fabbed by Intel for Intel, that could be one hell of a test to see if their GPU design is overall good and just the fab screwing up their efficiency and performance abilities. I guess we will have to wait and see. Also Intel getting a iGPU that could lure back both Apple and pretty much add the ability to play almost all the LoL and other MOBA type games at 1080P just off the iGPU could be a pretty sweet market to tap into. Also lite CAD work, and Video Production, etc.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:20
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EdEddnEddy posted:AMD GPU's for future Intel iGPU's? Wat. 
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Dec 6, 2016 20:09
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:this seems like more of a "i want to see what our gpus will do in fabs that are not retarded sooner than samsung and tsmc can start production on any of our poo poo" thing than intel throwing in the towel on their igpu, intel has top notch accelerated media playback efficiency and to toss that away just because game performance is rear end is insanity I agree, this is probably AMD loading up on ammo to staple GloFo's droopy, wrinkly, cancerous balls to the wall with. But to borrow a car analogy, "there is no replacement for displacement". Give Intel some real GPU cores to work with, on top of the intake and the turbocharger and the media acceleration? ...I might actually pay Chipzilla-prices for that.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:10
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EdEddnEddy posted:AMD GPU's for future Intel iGPU's? Just when I thought 2016 couldn't get any more loving bizarre WHAT THE FLYING gently caress This has to be a precursor to a buyout, laying the groundwork for something in a year or two. Nothing else really makes any sense.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:49
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Intel buying out AMD will never happen. Regulatory bodies won't let this go through. That said, I don't get the idea. AMD probably figured that the iGPU is cannibalizing the low end GPU market, so they'd probably gain more from licensing the tech out. Of course, that'll make the iGPU even better and have it cannibalize the mid end market. So what the hell?
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Dec 6, 2016 21:06
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EdEddnEddy posted:AMD GPU's for future Intel iGPU's? Yeah, it's at $9.50 Pryor on Fire posted:This has to be a precursor to a buyout, laying the groundwork for something in a year or two. Nothing else really makes any sense. I don't think this can legally happen due to monopoly laws, but what would this do to AMDs stock price? Would we all become rich?
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Dec 6, 2016 21:08
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AMD is going the microsoft route, just put your poo poo everywhere and anywhere. See: SQL on linux, bash on windows, etc. I'm sure intel will go to lengths to hide they're using a different vendor, as seen in their SSD line where they use controllers from everyone (but saving the premium space for their own stack) but it's "intel".
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Dec 6, 2016 21:09
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Combat Pretzel posted:Intel buying out AMD will never happen. Regulatory bodies won't let this go through. I thought this too, but then I look at the last eight years of telco companies trying to merge but being stymied by the Obama administration, the previous eight years before that of FINANCIAL COMPANY MERGER MADNESS, and then who's about to take office in under a month... EU will definitely raise a stink. But if regulatory pressure was keeping them from doing it stateside, it's gone soon.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:12
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My ideal scenario is that they signed this in exchange for the x86/x64 cross-licensing to stay valid in the event that AMD is bought out, and then Samsung acquires AMD.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:52
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Could Intel get the Radeon Group from AMD? Or if anything, can AMD just spin off RTG (as if it was still ATI) and just license between the two of them? Hell Intel could buy them, then license GPU tech back to AMD as long as AMD can deal a better bargain than GloFo.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:03
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:this seems like more of a "i want to see what our gpus will do in fabs that are not retarded sooner than samsung and tsmc can start production on any of our poo poo" thing than intel throwing in the towel on their igpu, intel has top notch accelerated media playback efficiency and to toss that away just because game performance is rear end is insanity If it's cheaper to outsource the design to someone else rather than doing it in house and you get a better product out of it, then why not.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:14
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I could see AMD licensing the tech out to get access to Intel's fabs personally, plus payment. That's kind of a nightmare scenario for Nvidia honestly because no matter how much TSMC claims, they're still second fiddle to Intel. Also yes this could be a precursor to Intel buying RTG, a group created specifically to survive AMD.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:42
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pixaal posted:I don't think this can legally happen due to monopoly laws, think those laws will be enforced after January 20th
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Dec 6, 2016 22:49
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pixaal posted:Yeah, it's at $9.50 Laws are only as strong as the will to enforce them. Also Intel has been talking about the competition they face from ARM and other architecture. Sure they might get a monopoly on x86 chips but x86 is not the only game in town.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:54
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pixaal posted:I don't think this can legally happen due to monopoly laws, but what would this do to AMDs stock price? That's not how monopoly laws work. There are a lot of legal monopolies and near-monopolies. Anyway Intel doesn't really have much incentive to take over all of AMD no matter what - they'd probably prefer just to take the things they really want and not the dead weight.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:59
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Being a monopoly isn't even illegal. Abusing your monopoly is or becoming one non naturally.
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Dec 6, 2016 23:10
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