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In Canada the base compensation for a visit without any other services is ~$30.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:51
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My mom used to encourage me to go date a doctor/lawyer so that I wouldn't have to work as hard in life.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:01
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Twerk from Home posted:I just had an annual physical, and the explanation of benefits indicated that the office billed $550 for a 30 minute visit that included normal blood pressure / listening to breathing / checking for lumps, plus application of liquid nitrogen to freeze a skin wart. Medicine in America is sold like cars. That $550 is MSRP. The price they actually charge insurance is between $100 and $150. If you don't have insurance you just haggle. Odds are the doctor will take less than the posted rate, but more than the insurance rate in exchange for cash. It costs an average Canadian doctor $30k a year to collect payment from patients, government agencies, and insurance. American doctors spend $80k. So they're usually happy to take less in exchange for money upfront.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:12
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Krispy Kareem posted:Medicine in America is sold like cars. That $550 is MSRP. The price they actually charge insurance is between $100 and $150. If you don't have insurance you just haggle. Odds are the doctor will take less than the posted rate, but more than the insurance rate in exchange for cash. My doctor is also half urgent care half regular doctor and he advertises his prices for uninsured people and it's like $50 for a physical or something like that yet what he actually charged my insurance was something around $100+
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Dec 6, 2016 19:22
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Apparently per capita debt in New Zealand has reached $3500. That's excluding mortgages so it's all consumer debt. Through p2p lending people are getting between $35k and $70k loans for horse boats, cars and holidays "they deserve". We also have record breaking total household debt and I'm sure that won't be a problem when the property bubble bursts. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/87237118/warning-christmas-could-increase-mindblowing-3500-per-capita-personal-debts
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Dec 6, 2016 19:48
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cowofwar posted:In Canada the base compensation for a visit without any other services is ~$30. Compensation varies by province. The physician fee for a family doctor in Ontario is $77 and change for an assessment (which includes a full health history), $38 and change for a re-assessment (which does not). A periodic health assessment (routine check-up) is between $43.xx and the usual assessment fee, depending on the age of the patient. Note that periodic health visits are NOT covered in all provinces, but they are in Ontario (up to one every 12 months). H110Hawk posted:However, assuming he went to school in the socialist nation of Canada he likely never had a huge amount of crippling debt, and 46 years ago those numbers were likely MUCH lower. When this dude was going to medical school, that might have been the case; the median debt after graduating medical school now is around $80k. I have colleagues who graduated with north of $150k in debt.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:59
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haha, my buddy is in his 3rd year of residency for anesthesiology and has 450k of student debt.. Of course healthcare is expensive here. The guy is 30 and won't have that paid off until he's 50. e: I think his plan is by 40 but still.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:01
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Devian666 posted:Apparently per capita debt in New Zealand has reached $3500. That's excluding mortgages so it's all consumer debt. Through p2p lending people are getting between $35k and $70k loans for horse boats, cars and holidays "they deserve". We also have record breaking total household debt and I'm sure that won't be a problem when the property bubble bursts. amateurs. http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_united_states_of_debt/2016/05/the_rise_of_household_debt_in_the_u_s_in_five_charts.html quote:The average household that has credit card debt owes $16,000. That number is $27,000 for auto loans, $48,000 for student loans, and $169,000 for mortgages.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:06
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BraveUlysses posted:amateurs. Per capita, not per household.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:18
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The Slate article narrows to people with CC debt, thereby excluding children at the least. The NZ number is averaged across every man, woman, and child.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:20
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fair enough, but if we are carrying about 12T in non-mortgage debt over 318M people that's a per capita of $37k. exclude mortgages and that's 3.38T for 318M people and $10.6k per capita
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Dec 6, 2016 20:23
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American exceptionalism!
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Dec 6, 2016 20:28
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No Butt Stuff posted:450k of student debt..  I think that's the highest student loan debt I've ever seen
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Dec 6, 2016 20:29
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ate all the Oreos posted:
Someone post the reddit dude with 950k in student loans who was working making sub-60k because they'd turned down a higher-paying (80k?) job since the lower-paying one had a better work environment. They were some kind of health-care person, I think a doctor. e: found it "How to pay off about $1 Million in student loans." posted:I went to dental school and did a residency. I have about $200k of debt from college, $500k from dental school and about $300k from my residency. I make $105,000 / year. I don't have any other loans. My rent is $900/month (with utilities). Food costs about $500 / month. I have a car and that costs about $400/month for the insurance and to lease it from the dealer. I should have mentioned this earlier but I am NOT a full time endodontist. lower in the thread: quote:[–]prophywife 218 points 2 years ago Uncle Enzo fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 20:38
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My wife and I have a total of like 2/3 a million. Fortunately we're on course to get some sweet, sweet PSLF and we're in a double physician household.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:49
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:My wife and I have a total of like 2/3 a million. Fortunately we're on course to get some sweet, sweet PSLF and we're in a double physician household. Good on you for taking advantage of the resources available to you, but PSLF should be ineligible for grad school loans going forward. Especially with long residencies, doctors are able to spend 6 or 7 years paying nothing or almost nothing, and then ~3 years of paying loans on a 10 year payback schedule, then get half a million of debt forgiven just as they start making tons of money. It's bullshit.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:57
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Uncle Enzo posted:Someone post the reddit dude with 950k in student loans who was working making sub-60k because they'd turned down a higher-paying (80k?) job since the lower-paying one had a better work environment. They were some kind of health-care person, I think a doctor. Is there something weird about dentistry residencies? How do you incur $300K of debt doing a residency?
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Dec 6, 2016 21:02
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Dogfish posted:Is there something weird about dentistry residencies? How do you incur $300K of debt doing a residency? Yea, this is weird. Aren't residents paid? I know they're paid gently caress all, but they are in fact paid.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:08
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No Butt Stuff posted:haha, my buddy is in his 3rd year of residency for anesthesiology and has 450k of student debt.. Eh, that can be one of the highest paid positions in a hospital. Having that paid off in 5 years wouldn't surprise me in the least.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:10
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Twerk from Home posted:Good on you for taking advantage of the resources available to you, but PSLF should be ineligible for grad school loans going forward. Especially with long residencies, doctors are able to spend 6 or 7 years paying nothing or almost nothing, and then ~3 years of paying loans on a 10 year payback schedule, then get half a million of debt forgiven just as they start making tons of money. It's bullshit. It's one of the only reasons to work for a nonprofit instead of going straight private practice cash grab. You also not only start in a huge hole but lose around a decade of interest compounding time compared to everyone else. My wife and I went private practice anyways despite half a million or so in loans because nonprofit still isn't worth it so it's not like it's an obvious decision. I don't begrudge them.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:18
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Twerk from Home posted:Good on you for taking advantage of the resources available to you, but PSLF should be ineligible for grad school loans going forward. Especially with long residencies, doctors are able to spend 6 or 7 years paying nothing or almost nothing, and then ~3 years of paying loans on a 10 year payback schedule, then get half a million of debt forgiven just as they start making tons of money. It's bullshit. I really hope we can now have a robust debate about whether medical professionals are over- or under-compensated in our society. That sounds like a fruitful topic for discussion that seems likely to be addressed in a reasonable and balanced manner, and this seems like the appropriate venue for it.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:30
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gently caress doctors, rub some dirt on it and get back out there. *slaps your rear end just a little too enthusiastically for a high school coach*
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Dec 6, 2016 21:35
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Subjunctive posted:American exceptionalism! I am always amazed at the number of BWM stories where people have 9-12 credit cards. How the gently caress do people manage that?
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Dec 6, 2016 22:00
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Well when you max one out, what else are you supposed to do but get another one?
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Dec 6, 2016 22:01
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Ashcans posted:Well when you max one out, what else are you supposed to do but get another one?
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Dec 6, 2016 22:14
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Devian666 posted:I am always amazed at the number of BWM stories where people have 9-12 credit cards. How the gently caress do people manage that? It's very easy to manage a bunch of credit cards with any sort of personal finance or budgeting software, which you should be using regardless of how many credit cards you have. Having a bunch of credit cards isn't BWM in and of itself. With all the sign up bonuses, reward/cash back bonuses, and all that crap it can actually be quite GWM to take advantage of. The BWM comes in when you have tons of credit cards that you aren't paying the statement balances on every month.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:19
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edit: massively beaten I hope all these physicians getting 500k+ forgiven cause an insane uproar
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Dec 6, 2016 22:22
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Devian666 posted:I am always amazed at the number of BWM stories where people have 9-12 credit cards. How the gently caress do people manage that? I have three but I'm just keeping two of them open so my available credit is higher. I could see how it could start out like this and then spiral out of control into filling them all up without really thinking about it though 
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Dec 6, 2016 22:24
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ate all the Oreos posted:I have three but I'm just keeping two of them open so my available credit is higher. I could see how it could start out like this and then spiral out of control into filling them all up without really thinking about it though What gets me is not having a bunch of cards but that they're all maxed out and as Ashcans said above just apply for another. Surely whichever financial institution looking at the utilization must see there's a big risk.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:31
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Devian666 posted:What gets me is not having a bunch of cards but that they're all maxed out and as Ashcans said above just apply for another. Surely whichever financial institution looking at the utilization must see there's a big risk. I bet that if someone is deep in debt with their cards, but keeps making minimum payments, they are likely to keep doing that if they get a new card. And to the CC company that is a gold mine.
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Dec 6, 2016 22:45
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It's easy to end up with a big pile of credit cards if you keep getting store cards for the initial discounts or whatever. Oh, I get 10% off if I open a Macy's card, and 0% interest for a year (in which I won't pay off my purchase, so actually like 24% interest) on the Best Buy card, and look, the Montgomery Ward catalog just came in...
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Dec 7, 2016 00:22
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ha wrong thread uh... i own a horse? so there's that
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Dec 7, 2016 00:23
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Shadowhand00 posted:My mom used to encourage me to go date a doctor/lawyer so that I wouldn't have to work as hard in life. Are you a man or a woman?
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Dec 7, 2016 00:25
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potatoducks posted:It's one of the only reasons to work for a nonprofit instead of going straight private practice cash grab. You also not only start in a huge hole but lose around a decade of interest compounding time compared to everyone else. My wife and I went private practice anyways despite half a million or so in loans because nonprofit still isn't worth it so it's not like it's an obvious decision. I don't begrudge them. Keep in mind there are some huge and unintuitive loopholes about how PSLF works for doctors and the bottom line is that the only thing that really matters is the for-profit or non-profit tax status of the organization that ultimately issues your paycheck. In many cases different doctors working at the same hospital can simultaneously qualify and not qualify for PSLF. Some large academic medical centers contract all physician services to a for-profit physician owned partnership meaning that their faculty do not qualify. Many large medical centers are nominally non-profit but have purchased private practice groups and now employ their physicians on staff, meaning that the physicians now qualify without any meaningful change in their practice. It is very broken and in some cases (not most) deeply exploitable contrary to the intended purpose of the program.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:26
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WampaLord posted:Yea, this is weird. Aren't residents paid? I know they're paid gently caress all, but they are in fact paid. Dental residencies are optional, not funded by the government, and frequently cost a large tuition for lucrative subspecialties of dentistry.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:27
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Twerk from Home posted:Good on you for taking advantage of the resources available to you, but PSLF should be ineligible for grad school loans going forward. Especially with long residencies, doctors are able to spend 6 or 7 years paying nothing or almost nothing, and then ~3 years of paying loans on a 10 year payback schedule, then get half a million of debt forgiven just as they start making tons of money. It's bullshit. It is kind of bullshit in the sense that it's not the intent of PSLF, but it is a lot of handwaving to ignore the part where you spend the first 11-16 years of your adult life accumulating debt before making all that money. It makes more sense in my opinion to systematically trim some of the time out of the training system and spread the income longitudinally along the career course.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:34
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pathetic little tramp posted:ha wrong thread Tell us about your horse, friend.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:34
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Blinkman987 posted:It's a lot easier in life when you consider these people loving morons and do not care what they think and take even a slight delight in openly mocking how poorly their brain works to their face, especially when family! yeah i usually just say the villa in tuscany helps me sleep through the night
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Dec 7, 2016 00:50
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H110Hawk posted:I can't seem to upload to imgur right now. It just says "Failed to create post." What they billed is a function of the crazy medical billing system in the USA. I just looked up my physical (again, no procedures): they billed $155, and were actually paid $103 by my insurance company. $0 out of pocket to me, thanks obama. I imagine in Canada the payments to doctors are much closer to what USA insurance actually pays though it is probably higher. I bet your office was paid much closer to $150 as it included a procedure. My annual skin check at a dermatologist? Billed $85, paid $64, which is crazy low to me. These are both in Pasadena, CA - not known for its low costs. I remember getting a prescription at the pharmacy where they put a little note on your slip that says something like "Your insurance saved you $675 on this prescription!" but when you take a look at the actual EOB, the insurance company chipped in a grand total of three dollars on top of your $10 copay.
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Dec 7, 2016 01:49
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Yeah, but I assure you that if you don't have insurance that's the amount they'll ring up on the cash. You save a lot by having insurance even if the insurance company isn't paying out of pocket for all of the difference.
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Dec 7, 2016 01:54
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