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Stefan Prodan posted:How does that happen anyway, will our values become conservative values? It is certainly we get greedier when we get older, but it combines with the fact that gen xers have a tendency to the right. Being that they grew up during the height of democratic failure with Carter, and GOP ascendancy.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:10
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Stefan Prodan posted:How does that happen anyway, will our values become conservative values? It's a bit of both. Social issues move on so people become more conservative. When people make more money they don't want to pay taxes. But it is also true that the needle doesn't move as much as some think. For example, the "Greatest Generation" stuck with the Democratic Party all the way until their death.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:17
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AceRimmer posted:I watched Hillary Clinton's entire speech in Tempe, AZ, where she spent longer defending Carly Fiorina as a part of her "suburban Republican woman outreach campaign" than talking about Joe Arpaio. did carly have a single good opinion?
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Dec 7, 2016 07:19
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"I helped the NSA install backdoors on servers we were selling to clients!" *room cheers *
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Dec 7, 2016 07:21
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Stefan Prodan posted:How does that happen anyway, will our values become conservative values? Well first, it's easy to be idealistic when you're 20 and you're just figuring things out. When you're 40 you probably have a career, and a mortgage, and a family, and retirement plans - there's a lot more that you're afraid to lose, so you start looking at things through a lens of fear rather than hope. At age 20 I was in the 1999 Seattle WTO demonstrations. I didn't have any kind of nuanced political ideals, only that the system was bad and we had to do away with the system and replace it with not the system. Now I'm almost 40 and I've actually read things that informed my political views. Turns out I'm still pretty far left, but that's because I've seen decades of Reagan bull poo poo not working for anyone but the 1%. The other thing, social politics, is simply a byproduct of progress moving faster than people can keep up with. It's absolutely just limp-dicked white male entitlement, but they see the PC thing as a bunch of rules that they now have to live under and it rankles them, so they lash out. Who was it that said "To the overclass, equality feels like oppression"? Anyway, in the 90's these cats might have been on the right side of history, until they wake up in 2016 and find themselves on the wrong side of it.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:23
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carly fiorina, the candidate with the dubious honor of being even worse at business than trump
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Dec 7, 2016 07:24
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Well first, it's easy to be idealistic when you're 20 and you're just figuring things out. When you're 40 you probably have a career, and a mortgage, and a family, and retirement plans - there's a lot more that you're afraid to lose, so you start looking at things through a lens of fear rather than hope. At age 20 I was in the 1999 Seattle WTO demonstrations. I didn't have any kind of nuanced political ideals, only that the system was bad and we had to do away with the system and replace it with not the system. Now I'm almost 40 and I've actually read things that informed my political views. Turns out I'm still pretty far left, but that's because I've seen decades of Reagan bull poo poo not working for anyone but the 1%. man the older generations really dont get it huh
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Dec 7, 2016 07:25
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Gen X is more conservative than the Boomers, but there's also less of them and by the time they get old enough to wield real power the millennials will start reaching adulthood too. It's also worth noting that polls show that baby boomers are literally the only thing keeping Texas from being a swing state right now, there was a stark dropoff in Trump support for people under the age of 50. Demographics are destiny, but it's a slow process and the DNC hosed up by taking things for granted and think Trump would speed things up
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Dec 7, 2016 07:24
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this reminded me of brock attacking the clintons in the 90s and now i think he might be one of the best grifters in washington. he's managed to make money on both loving sides of the clinton hate machine
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Dec 7, 2016 07:26
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Crowsbeak posted:The majority were Boomers. The gen xers barley went for Trump. Even White Millennials were a bare six percent. This was not the election of 1980. This can be recovered but it requires that we work together to purge and purify the democrats of the superpacs and the financiers. We gen-xers are in our 40's-50's now. It's the millennials that didn't go for Trump.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:28
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Raskolnikov38 posted:this reminded me of brock attacking the clintons in the 90s and now i think he might be one of the best grifters in washington. he's managed to make money on both loving sides of the clinton hate machine  David Brock 2.0: John Kasich and the Hamilton Revolt
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Dec 7, 2016 07:27
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HorseRenoir posted:Gen X is more conservative than the Boomers, but there's also less of them and by the time they get old enough to wield real power the millennials will start reaching adulthood too. They are only destiny if you play to their wants. Guess what Hillary didn't do. (NO having Katie Perry and Lena Dunham as surrogates doesn't count as playing to our wants). Gizmoduck_5000 posted:We gen-xers are in our 40's-50's now. It's the millennials that didn't go for Trump. 46-50. Now White Gen-Xer's were the ones who really went for Trump, in fact more so then any other group. Its a white Gen Xer problem.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:35
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:democrats should run on a "hang every banker from the nearest streetpole" plank imho 
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Dec 7, 2016 07:35
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Well first, it's easy to be idealistic when you're 20 and you're just figuring things out. When you're 40 you probably have a career, and a mortgage, and a family, and retirement plans - there's a lot more that you're afraid to lose, so you start looking at things through a lens of fear rather than hope. At age 20 I was in the 1999 Seattle WTO demonstrations. I didn't have any kind of nuanced political ideals, only that the system was bad and we had to do away with the system and replace it with not the system. Now I'm almost 40 and I've actually read things that informed my political views. Turns out I'm still pretty far left, but that's because I've seen decades of Reagan bull poo poo not working for anyone but the 1%. I'd also like to add that this is especially true for anyone who is higher than the working class. Working class adults, and especially the poors, tend to be more populist because they are already far enough in the game to know where they stand. Hence why they rural poorer areas went for Obama and now Trump. However, middle class and above tend to take the biggest swing. Now that they are older they have a lot of investments in terms of retirement, housing, and career. Not only that, but one views themselves as the protagonist in their life story, so they will see that they "made it against all odds". Middle class white people in particular are insufferable with this. Not to mention, as much as we don't like talking about it, 20 years old is very young. They aren't likely to experience things such as say seeing people take advantage of the welfare system, seeing the "sick culture of poverty", coming across lazy coworkers, seeing single parents with five children each with a different father, etc. I'm not saying that these things are extremely common in the country as a whole, but they do exist. And to a middle/upper class twenty year old, they are alien. Coming across these situations changes one's perspective, especially if they aren't educated about social and political constructs, which is likely because education sucks in that aspect. Stexils posted:man the older generations really dont get it huh "Idealistic" may be the wrong term to use. But when you are so young you are more likely to make sacrifices and roll the dice with concepts due to you having less to lose overall. If I'm 20 and the economy crashes due to my crazy Gary Johnson led government, I don't really lose that much overall. But if I'm 40, not only does my housing value plummet, my job is in jeopardy as I can't pay the bills, but my wife and kids also suffer. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 07:40 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 07:37
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punk rebel ecks posted:
Yup. My first, knee-jerk reaction to everything is conservative. But after I apply reason and facts, I inevitably come around to a more progressive and liberal viewpoint.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:52
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Crowsbeak posted:
The very same ones who voted for Clinton in 92 & 96. What's to stop the millennials from making the same (d)evolution? You can't rely on demographic destiny.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:55
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So in quite local news, the state senator representing my district died of a brain tumor in September and the ballots were not updated in time for the normal elections. So a special election is being held to fill the seat, and for some goddamn reason the governor decided the ideal day to do this would be 2 days after christmas. Is this part of that war on christmas i've heard so much about?
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Dec 7, 2016 08:02
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:The very same ones who voted for Clinton in 92 & 96. What's to stop the millennials from making the same (d)evolution? You can't rely on demographic destiny. Change the dems. They voted for a idiot promising change. make the dems about real change. Also my generation will have to get more involved. I gues I have to hope and not gie in to dispair for despair might as well make me become a Narodnik.
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Dec 7, 2016 08:10
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Well first, it's easy to be idealistic when you're 20 and you're just figuring things out. When you're 40 you probably have a career, and a mortgage, and a family, and retirement plans - there's a lot more that you're afraid to lose, so you start looking at things through a lens of fear rather than hope. At age 20 I was in the 1999 Seattle WTO demonstrations. I didn't have any kind of nuanced political ideals, only that the system was bad and we had to do away with the system and replace it with not the system. Now I'm almost 40 and I've actually read things that informed my political views. Turns out I'm still pretty far left, but that's because I've seen decades of Reagan bull poo poo not working for anyone but the 1%. full Logan's Run now
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Dec 7, 2016 08:14
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lol Darkman Fanpage posted:blue dogs get out reeeeeee
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Dec 7, 2016 08:25
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Dec 7, 2016 08:27
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Pelosi is basicly the politician Hillary fans pretend Hillary is. A liberal champion who can also do pragmatic realpolitik dealmaking when it's in the best interests of the people or the party. If she fell flat on her face with failure and flawed decision making as many times as Clinton has she would be regarded the same way, but she, you know, doesn't. People always try to paint anti-Clintonism as anti-pragmatism...but what the gently caress was actually pragmatic about Hillary Clinton?
FuriousxGeorge has issued a correction as of 08:46 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 08:40
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tower time posted:So in quite local news, the state senator representing my district died of a brain tumor in September and the ballots were not updated in time for the normal elections. So a special election is being held to fill the seat, and for some goddamn reason the governor decided the ideal day to do this would be 2 days after christmas. Is this part of that war on christmas i've heard so much about? What state is this?
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Dec 7, 2016 08:56
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HorseRenoir posted:What state is this?
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Dec 7, 2016 09:03
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Pelosi is basicly the politician Hillary fans pretend Hillary is. A liberal champion who can also do pragmatic realpolitik dealmaking when it's in the best interests of the people or the party. If she fell flat on her face with failure and flawed decision making as many times as Clinton has she would be regarded the same way, but she, you know, doesn't. People always try to paint anti-Clintonism as anti-pragmatism...but what the gently caress was actually pragmatic about Hillary Clinton? Libya, Haiti, etc...
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Dec 7, 2016 09:04
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Pelosi is basicly the politician Hillary fans pretend Hillary is. A liberal champion who can also do pragmatic realpolitik dealmaking when it's in the best interests of the people or the party. If she fell flat on her face with failure and flawed decision making as many times as Clinton has she would be regarded the same way, but she, you know, doesn't. People always try to paint anti-Clintonism as anti-pragmatism...but what the gently caress was actually pragmatic about Hillary Clinton? the great thing about the pragmatism angle, which narratively took off like a year ago before it was all boiled down to idpol vs leftism, is that the group that championed pragmatism above all else is also the group thats now rebuffing strategic change and demanding the sacrifice of a few more elections on the altar of establishment in deferrence to the unassailable ideal that Actually, Hillary Was Perfect
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Dec 7, 2016 09:12
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Breakfast All Day posted:the great thing about the pragmatism angle, which narratively took off like a year ago before it was all boiled down to idpol vs leftism, is that the group that championed pragmatism above all else is also the group thats now rebuffing strategic change and demanding the sacrifice of a few more elections on the altar of establishment in deferrence to the unassailable ideal that Actually, Hillary Was Perfect
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Dec 7, 2016 09:24
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Breakfast All Day posted:the great thing about the pragmatism angle, which narratively took off like a year ago before it was all boiled down to idpol vs leftism, is that the group that championed pragmatism above all else is also the group thats now rebuffing strategic change and demanding the sacrifice of a few more elections on the altar of establishment in deferrence to the unassailable ideal that Actually, Hillary Was Perfect Hilarious how an uncharismatic wonk who lost an election against the human embodyment of poor impusle control has a cult of personality,
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Dec 7, 2016 09:36
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resar posted:Hilarious how an uncharismatic wonk who lost an election against the human embodyment of poor impusle control has a cult of personality, AceRimmer posted:http://discerninghistory.com/2013/06/reliving-the-battle-of-gettysburg-william-faulkner-quote/
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Dec 7, 2016 09:40
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mugrim posted:For the record, Clinton's total ambivalence to both of these things as well as DAPL drove me mad. All of them had built in organizers and structures with solid messaging. Why focus on Trump's racism without emboldening any of those other ideas? All the polls told Hillary she was going to win in an historic landslide. She wanted to be not only the first woman president, but the biggest election landslide since Reagan. She thought the best way to do that was to avoid taking any stance on anything that could turn off voters. Coming out against DAPL would have turned off energy voters, being loudly pro-BLM (after the primary) would have turned off the white southerners she thought was going to hand her NC. She thought she had the anti-DAPL and pro-BLM people in the bag - what were they going to do, vote Trump? - so she took them for granted and focused on not pissing off the pro-DAPL/anti-BLM people. She constantly triangulates her positions and takes up whatever stance she thinks will play well to the room - the famous public and private faces. Trump meanwhile just said poo poo that he knew would play to his supporters and piss off the people that weren't going to vote for him anyways. That dumb wall of his cost him zero votes because anyone outraged at the wall wasn't voting for him anyways with all the other horrible poo poo he said, but it gained him enthusiastic support from racists and anti-immigration people. It probably even helped his numbers with Latins, because they're an incredibly diverse group not only by national origin but by generation, and theres more than a few who think illegal immigrants actively undermine their standing in society. Clinton making a strong statement against DAPL wouldn't have cost her hardly anything while juicing up her base, but she had visions of a blue sweep so better not irritate anyone at all! Seriously though, Clinton had her roots in advocacy and public service, but somewhere along the way all of that died in her. Fake Edit: How does the Democratic candidate for President not spew fire about Flint at every campaign stop? Flint is a perfect storm of racial and class issues brought on by abandonment from the economic elite and a Republican governor. That poo poo would have sold like hotcakes across the entire country. Theres something for everyone to identify with in that horror show.
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Dec 7, 2016 11:49
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Gizmoduck_5000 posted:Well first, it's easy to be idealistic when you're 20 and you're just figuring things out. When you're 40 you probably have a career, and a mortgage, and a family, and retirement plans - there's a lot more that you're afraid to lose, so you start looking at things through a lens of fear rather than hope. At age 20 I was in the 1999 Seattle WTO demonstrations. I didn't have any kind of nuanced political ideals, only that the system was bad and we had to do away with the system and replace it with not the system. Now I'm almost 40 and I've actually read things that informed my political views. Turns out I'm still pretty far left, but that's because I've seen decades of Reagan bull poo poo not working for anyone but the 1%. good news on that front at least: the Republicans are hard at work ensuring that we won't have those things this time around, so hopefully we get some hardcore 40 year old millenials with nothing to lose and a lot of anger at the people who hosed them over. if they axe social security then people really will go off the rails
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Dec 7, 2016 12:08
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lol
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Dec 7, 2016 12:10
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bump_fn posted:lol
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Dec 7, 2016 12:37
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Libya, Haiti, etc... So two places that are only slightly better off than Syria.
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Dec 7, 2016 13:17
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poo poo, someone totally called this. The tears will be glorious. Do you think it would have been Clinton if she won? I'm not that sure. They say she was the "runner up" but she did jack and poo poo to influence anything other than Trump's election.
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Dec 7, 2016 14:19
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Dehumanize yourself and face to Bizzaro Bill Mitchell https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/806482846990925824
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Dec 7, 2016 14:22
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Well I don't see any reasonable argument that he ISN'T person of the year. He took this year and made it his bitch.
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Dec 7, 2016 14:22
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Do you think it would have been Clinton if she won? I thought it was going to be Farage but then this election was brutal so the winner was prob. going to be TIME magazine's human of the year. She would have got it for overcoming adversity and being the first woman president etc. etc. while Trump gets it for being the face of right-wing populism (rightly or wrongly).
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Dec 7, 2016 14:24
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AceRimmer posted:Dehumanize yourself and face to Bizzaro Bill Mitchell Didn't she technically come right up to the barrier and then fail to break it?
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Dec 7, 2016 14:24
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If Time had given Man of the Year to The Populist, they would have actually had to do some journalism in strange foreign lands that have no lessons to teach us 
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Dec 7, 2016 14:25
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