Enderzero posted:

Oh my god man, I was referring to the part where he says he wants to see Negan rape someone

A True Jar Jar Fan posted:

In the comics we soon learn that Negan is a secret gayman and all he does is feed these women cake, I read ahead and I'm ok with him now.

Blazing Ownager posted:

I never understood why there were no ramifications for Shane doing that other than Lori being one of the most horrendously written characters on the show.

Enderzero posted:

This isn't a loving court and we aren't jurors. Using simple principles of reason we can see that Negan is a rapist.

What is it with these rape apologists and not knowing the word coercion?


what the gently caress man. what the gently caress.

Sjs00 posted:

You really shouldn't insult people like that because technically he's correct. Negan hasn't yet accomplished, on screen, what by TWD and AMC's standards qualifies as rape. I think they standard set is twofold
Season 1: Shane shoving his hand in Lori's pants/ underwear at the CDC; totally rape.
Season 3: The Gov. putting his hands on Maggie while she was naked; also rape.
Were either ones sex? No; but they were still non-consensual and thus 'rape'.
Until we see the actual act of Negan 'screwing [Olivia's] brains out' Something I would very much enjoy but know isn't going to happen we can safely convict him with murder; cohesion; slavery; but not rape.

jfood posted:

Yea, but in the next chapter it's revealed he's a Mormon secret gayman, so those ladies still gotta be his slaves in the after-life.

Sjs00 posted:

I guess I vener really hated Lori too much because of loving Andrea

Yes; I can see why Negan would be accused of rape by the women, husbands, and silent 3rd party (viewers) but what it boils down to is this: he gave them a choice; an impossible choice, but one where the options are lovely and a what the women believe to be a lot shittier. What's so interesting about the dynamic we do see is that not all the women do in fact, take the choice to be his wife. Some become soldiers, some run, some just aren't 'super hot'. But the women who can't fight, aren't strong enough to fight, or are just generally still attractive after 6 years of probably not the most balanced of breakfasts, do in fact willingly subject themselves to whatever 'being Negan's wife' entails.
But until we see Negan's pale rear end bouncing and the woman under him screams for him to stop and he doesn't he's just not a rapist. He's just a very very influential man.
I don't however expect to see anything resembling that, ever, because AMC would never show anything like that.

As to the Olivia comment; her emotional breakdown to Negan's mere presence is just so delicious. I really really want them to push that to the absolute edge; and then for them to jump completely off the deep end and really cement Negan's rape side with her specially.
If their gonna make him a rapist then by god he needs to really rape someone suuuuper hard.

Dalael posted:

Also you guys need to relax on the whole "THIS IS RAPE"

There's Rape, and there's sexual assault and you guys are confusing the poo poo out of those 2 terms.

Sjs00 posted:

As to the Olivia comment; her emotional breakdown to Negan's mere presence is just so delicious. I really really want them to push that to the absolute edge; and then for them to jump completely off the deep end and really cement Negan's rape side with her specially.
If their gonna make him a rapist then by god he needs to really rape someone suuuuper hard.

Sjs00 posted:

I guess I vener really hated Lori too much because of loving Andrea

Yes; I can see why Negan would be accused of rape by the women, husbands, and silent 3rd party (viewers) but what it boils down to is this: he gave them a choice; an impossible choice, but one where the options are lovely and a what the women believe to be a lot shittier. What's so interesting about the dynamic we do see is that not all the women do in fact, take the choice to be his wife. Some become soldiers, some run, some just aren't 'super hot'. But the women who can't fight, aren't strong enough to fight, or are just generally still attractive after 6 years of probably not the most balanced of breakfasts, do in fact willingly subject themselves to whatever 'being Negan's wife' entails.
But until we see Negan's pale rear end bouncing and the woman under him screams for him to stop and he doesn't he's just not a rapist. He's just a very very influential man.
I don't however expect to see anything resembling that, ever, because AMC would never show anything like that.

As to the Olivia comment; her emotional breakdown to Negan's mere presence is just so delicious. I really really want them to push that to the absolute edge; and then for them to jump completely off the deep end and really cement Negan's rape side with her specially.
If their gonna make him a rapist then by god he needs to really rape someone suuuuper hard.

yeah I eat rear end posted:

Sexual assault is grabbing someone by the pussy in our future president's terms. Rape is either forceful sex, or sex by coercion. Sex by coercion is not "sexual assault" by any rational or legal definition.

yeah I eat rear end posted:

So now we've got 3. How ignorant are you people? If I tell a girl at a party that she'll either gently caress me or i'll kill her best friend

Parity warning posted:

Cool thanks for the creepy post guy whose posts have stood out to me as being awful in the past, please quote me more and reply equally terribly

yeah I eat rear end posted:

So now we've got 3. How ignorant are you people? If I tell a girl at a party that she'll either gently caress me or i'll kill her best friend, just because a few call my bluff and say no doesn't mean the ones that say yes aren't being raped. What the gently caress is wrong with you people

Blazing Ownager posted:

No, no I did not. I brought up a legal POV to look at it through, which seemed to determine he dodged that particular law (even afoul of many others) - what he was doing IS wrong by that standard, just not as severe. By a real world/legal standpoint.

I never, ever, ever said he was right. I've repeatedly said that his behavior is shitastic, and he deserves some hardcore justice he'll probably never get. But for daring bringing up the law, everyone has been acting like I've been sitting here cheer leading his behavior when from like, post 1, I've said he's a piece of poo poo.

Sjs00 posted:

Well sure since it seems to matter to you so much!


Dude have you ever been to a party? That's literally all we do. Death threats and rape.

..Seriously guys; Negan is a good character and exists incredibly in that gray-area of good vs. evil that it makes strangers on the internet argue heatedly about it. Has Rick ever raped anyone? No; but has he killed women and children? Absolutely.
Negan doesn't do what most rapes begin and end with; poverty, physical abuse, depression. His wives are certainly in fear of him; but not for themselves, for their husbands and families. They know that as long as they continue to make the choices that they've made, they will live in safety and comfort. AMC could really keep this whole dynamic ambiguous or they could knock it out of the park i.e. screwing the (totally cute) heavy chick with glasses; or hell, do what I only wished they would after a certain line in S701 and that's Rape the gently caress out of fan-favorite crossbow boy
Its getting dark here and this freak comes out at night

Enderzero posted:

It's true, you have said he's a piece of poo poo. That doesn't detract from your attempts to derail this conversation by bringing up legal theories when we're discussing a post apocalyptic story. It's like trying to say the heroes are bad people for stealing and trespassing; technically true but ultimately irrelevant and it distracts from the real issue which is way too many people don't know what rape is and want to defend a rapist for some godforsaken reason.

yeah I eat rear end posted:

That's not what Negan is offering though. He is saying you have a place to crash rent free, or you become his slave who will be killed if you try to run away. People have said in the show that working for points is worse than death. People in that system beg for death because it would be better. It's coercion, and therefore rape by any non-autist definition.

crazy cloud posted:

Kill yourself in real life lmao

Blazing Ownager posted:

That is rape. Absolutely.

If you tell her that if she fucks you, you'll give her ten thousand dollars that's prostitution & solicitation.

If you tell her that if she fucks you, you can give her a place to crash rent free, that's either prostitution/solicitation or coercion.

Perhaps if you tell her that if she fucks you, you can pay for her friends cancer treatments that she will die without (a closer example). That's "ten billion shades of wrong and hosed up" but still not defined rape.

The law is hosed up but rape laws are tricky specifically because of this. Again in the wasteland you can shoot someone for any reason you like, and judge them however you like. I'm just saying how it works outside of the show, lovely as some of it may be.

PS: In all of the above you can be a terrible piece of poo poo, unless I suppose you have a enthusiastically willing hooker and are seriously offering $10,000. Then you're just terrible with money.

Dalael posted:

The more I read your posts, the more I think that the only thing stopping you from raping someone is the fact that there's fear of punishment.

Blazing Ownager posted:

To be fair, real world law came up a lot debating murdering / jailing people last season.

It just didn't get this much emotional response because you can talk about murdering somebody in the worst way possible, gently caress, flay their skin and then smash their head to a paste in front of loved ones - nobody bats an eye. If that same kind of conversation appears when the R word gets broken out, you get the Ghostbusters mass hysteria quote.

Enderzero posted:

Rape laws may be tricky but the definition of rape is not. If you shoot someone not in self defense, you are a murderer. You might not be convicted but that's because the legal system is preoccupied with not jailing innocent people while not having perfect information; not being convicted has nothing to do with whether you are a murderer or not. You are or you aren't in a platonic sense - the legal system exists as it does because we don't have perfect information about the world.

Markorjoshua posted:

So much effort posting to defend rape

Blazing Ownager posted:

To me there's definitely a difference between failing to convict someone for violating rape laws, and being unable to bring rape charges because they did not violate rape laws. It's a murky, muddy subject with a lot of complexities and isn't as black & white as people wish it was.

Dalael posted:

Dude, just stop. While I understand what you're trying to explain, you will never come out on top of this conversation. It won't happen. You're just going to keep bringing up your points, and people will keep calling you a rape apologist. Here is not where you can argue the finer points of the law regarding rape.

Blazing Ownager posted:

To me there's definitely a difference between failing to convict someone for violating rape laws, and being unable to bring rape charges because they did not violate rape laws. It's a murky, muddy subject with a lot of complexities and isn't as black & white as people wish it was.

Dalael posted:

Sjs00 posted:

I'm gonna half-heartedly say that this right here is incorrect. You will be hunted down and killed if you a. Steal all the drugs and run or b. owe a lot; and then you will owe a lot more. If you for instance, ghosted the gently caress out on Negan in a car you had secretly stashed/ scavenged and left something of equal or greater value where the Saviors could find it (such as a nice chainsaw or functioning woodchipper) along with a note that said you would never be returning to the compound again I'm sure they would leave you be so long as you were 'square' .

Blazing Ownager posted:

I think the #1 problem with this whole generation and their general approach to topics is if they don't like the topic, instead of discussing it, they do one of four things:

1) Stick their fingers in their ears and ignore everything
2) Immediately attack the source of the things you don't like until it goes away
3) All of the above
4) Retreat to a place they can cry

When there's 3+ pages of rape talk, simply discussing the real world laws - with no agenda to use them to justify anyone, and in fact suggesting they need a revamp - is not being a rape apologist. But because people only read one or two hot button words and see red, they act as above.

Blazing Ownager posted:

I think the #1 problem with this whole generation and their general approach to topics is if they don't like the topic, instead of discussing it, they do one of four things:

1) Stick their fingers in their ears and ignore everything
2) Immediately attack the source of the things you don't like until it goes away
3) All of the above
4) Retreat to a place they can cry

When there's 3+ pages of rape talk, simply discussing the real world laws - with no agenda to use them to justify anyone, and in fact suggesting they need a revamp - is not being a rape apologist. But because people only read one or two hot button words and see red, they act as above.

yeah I eat rear end posted:

What makes you think that at all? When has someone left the Saviors free and clear in the show? Why would there even be a point system with negative consequences if you don't earn enough points if you weren't his property? If you left a woodchipper for Negan and he could find you again, you'd be dragged back so you could find him 2 woodchippers. There is no evidence in the show that you can buy out of Negan's system, he'll milk you until you are dry and then kill you.

Enderzero posted:

I hear these statements all the time and they usually serve to keep the waters muddy to protect a rapist because they know him, or it's a celebrity, or they just have misogynist attitudes towards women that they won't admit to. It's not complex: if both parties consent throughout the entire act, it's not rape. Otherwise it is.

Blazing Ownager posted:

I think the #1 problem with this whole generation and their general approach to topics is if they don't like the topic, instead of discussing it, they do one of four things:

1) Stick their fingers in their ears and ignore everything
2) Immediately attack the source of the things you don't like until it goes away
3) All of the above
4) Retreat to a place they can cry

When there's 3+ pages of rape talk, simply discussing the real world laws - with no agenda to use them to justify anyone, and in fact suggesting they need a revamp - is not being a rape apologist. But because people only read one or two hot button words and see red, they act as above.

Blazing Ownager posted:

Sjs00 posted:

Haha; did you even watch the Tara episode

Dalael posted:

But do you honestly that Somethingawful.com is the right place to discuss this stuff? Have you ever seen a discussion on this site, not devolve into complete and utter poo poo?

Blazing Ownager posted:

You're probably right. But that really extends to the ENTIRETY of the internet, not just SA: People only like echo chambers on sensitive subjects, wherever you are. This will be my last reply on the subject.

PS: I can't clarify enough that rape is bad, and Negan is bad. Whatever you take away from this, don't think I was defending him, I never was.

Blazing Ownager posted:

When there's 3+ pages of rape talk, simply discussing the real world laws - with no agenda to use them to justify anyone, and in fact suggesting they need a revamp - is not being a rape apologist. But because people only read one or two hot button words and see red, they act as above.