NetRunner: More Unapproachable than a rezzed Curtain Wall

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > NetRunner: More Unapproachable than a rezzed Curtain Wall

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Tevery Best: Oct 11, 2013; Hewlo Furriend

Yithian posted:

Ugh, I missed the 2MU. Yeah, that definitely falls into the "horseshit" category. I know killers are supposed to be inefficient but I'm not sure I want to use one that actively encourages me to eat sentry subroutines.

Also Persephone (along with, well, most every killer in the game) is probably infinitely more MU than Creeper, since it's probably taking up 0MU while it's in the ~*~cloud~*~

1. play persephone
2. play feedback filter
3. play + handsize stuff
4. pray for komainu
5. ultimate jank

# ? Dec 8, 2016 00:14

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# ? May 17, 2024 04:18

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Yithian posted:

https://drafts.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/12/7/earths-scion/

Oh look, Anarchs get their very own Creeper to continue their trend of absolute horseshit killers.

Anarchs are supposed to have terrible killers, though, it's part of their colour pie.

edit: Inversificator looks hilarious/scary/great fun

Zephro fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 00:27

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Zephro posted:

Anarchs are supposed to have terrible killers, though, it's part of their colour pie.

edit: Inversificator looks hilarious/scary/great fun

and yet ~~Sentry~~MIMIC gently caress is one of the most played/imported Killers in the game... :confused:

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 00:33

ConfusedPig: Mar 27, 2013

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

and yet Sentry is one of the most played/imported Killers in the game...

Did you mean Mimic?

# ? Dec 8, 2016 00:43

Yithian: Jun 19, 2005

Zephro posted:

Anarchs are supposed to have terrible killers, though, it's part of their colour pie.

edit: Inversificator looks hilarious/scary/great fun

And boy do they. Anarch has some really poo poo killers. I still maintain that Mimic isn't particularly good, it's just that all the other killers are so bad.

Anarch is also home to some truly awful decoders, between Yog.0 actually costing them influence and not being pumpable, Force of Nature being Force of Nature and Black Orchestra somehow being more expensive to use than Force of Nature.

If Paperclip wasn't so good, I'd think that fracters weren't in the Anarch part of the color pie either since their AI ICEbreakers are so incredible.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 00:48

Destrado: Feb 9, 2001; I thought, What a nice little city, it suits me fine. It suited me fine so I started to change it.

Yithian posted:

If Paperclip wasn't so good, I'd think that fracters weren't in the Anarch part of the color pie either since their AI ICEbreakers are so incredible.

That Anarch has other appealing options when they had the gold standard for breaker efficiency in the core set says a lot about how good these newer options are.

The ICE types aren't directly equivalent, mind you. Killers are always slightly awkward to use, Mimic got as far as it did because it seemed for the longest time Sentries were either low strength or prohibitively expensive. Then you had things like D4v1d or Sharpshooter to back you up on anything that Mimic couldn't deal with.

I like the new trend of breakers being not necessarily better but stranger, it's just harder to see them in a competitive environment where a Runner has to prepare for everything.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:19

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Yithian posted:

Anarch is also home to some truly awful decoders, between Yog.0

please don't troll my thread

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:24

fomo sacer: Feb 14, 2007

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

There's a Difference between respecting the MWL/Restricted list in magic and essentially creating type 2 when there isn't a scarcity of the good cards/utterly broken nonsense to justify it

There's some seriously broken stuff in core, so if the plan is to release a core 2.0 as well, rotation could legitimately create a more balanced environment and allow them to print more interesting cards.

Also re: scarcity, remember that like 10 months ago you could buy/sell opening moves on ebay for $wayTooMuch because it was out of print and jackson had not yet become the most printed card in the game.

edit: for the record, imo the mistakes in core are (edit2: not necessarily in order of importance/degeneracy): desperado, parasite, account siphon, yog, breaking news, astro (kinda fixed via functional errata??), noise ( :rip:

), and possibly the overly efficient ids (kate/etf)

fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:33

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

lol@ thinking things will get more balanced

I always thought separating icebreaker types by faction was silly and they should have more themed sets all in one faction like fixed breakers/central breakers/cloud breakers/etc

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:54

fomo sacer: Feb 14, 2007

yeah i know :eng99:

i still hope they get rid of yog and parasite...

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:56

Cinnamon Bear: Aug 29, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

I mostly play it as a boardgame since I'm the only one with cards and theres no one else playing anywhere close. I'll continue to use that stuff because I own it, and I don't have the full card pool. Otherwise I'd be stuck with just core+deluxes and half the lunar cycle.

But I might be getting some more people interested soon + the upcoming legacy expansion looks like a ton of fun so I should probably try and update what I have. I'm pretty curious about what that set will bring and if Weyland and Criminal will get some fun new toys.

I kind of wish I could skip over SanSan and Mumbad cycles though, since Flashpoint and Red Sands seem a lot more interesting in terms of flavor and mechanics, personally. But I know I'll need at least a few packs from them in my quest to play catchup.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 01:57

berenzen: Jan 23, 2012

Yithian posted:

Anarch is also home to some truly awful decoders, between Yog.0...

Wait, what? for 5 credits (not hard for anarch to achieve) and blanks a bunch of the exceptionally popular code gates without any additional support. With 1 card support in Net-Ready Eyes/Ice Carver/Datasucker it nulls even more. With the full suite, any code gate that strength 6 or less is completely nullified. Yog.0 acts as an upper bound for how powerful decoders can get, because making ICE cost 0 to break makes the ICE entirely worthless and warps any sort of card design. It's such a powerful card that they needed to make it cost an additional influence in order to force it to see less play. Yog singlehandedly forced code gates aside from Tollbooth out of the metagame before it got MWLed. Even now, the prevailance of Yog has meant that the Fairchildren that aren't 3.0 had an exceptionally short lifespan. Even now, Temujin Whizz just dominates the meta and a big part of what makes it so strong is that it breaks through Fairchild 3, DNA tracker and Tollbooth for minimal cost, and can make Little Engine a liability to play. Code gates are going back to being a gear check, because you need to have at least a strength 8 code gate in order to stop the terror that's a Net-Ready/ICE Carver/Datasucker Yog.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 02:02

Yithian: Jun 19, 2005

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

please don't troll my thread

Yithian posted:

between Yog.0 actually costing them influence and not being pumpable

Yog's break cost is great, it's base strength is great. It kicks the poo poo out of all the code gates printed in early Netrunner. But those other parts are challenging to work around. The other Anarch decoders are laughaly bad though.

Destrado posted:

That Anarch has other appealing options when they had the gold standard for breaker efficiency in the core set says a lot about how good these newer options are.

The ICE types aren't directly equivalent, mind you. Killers are always slightly awkward to use, Mimic got as far as it did because it seemed for the longest time Sentries were either low strength or prohibitively expensive. Then you had things like D4v1d or Sharpshooter to back you up on anything that Mimic couldn't deal with.

I like the new trend of breakers being not necessarily better but stranger, it's just harder to see them in a competitive environment where a Runner has to prepare for everything.

Yeah, less straightforwardly-efficient breakers is fun and probably good for the game.

Seriously though, if it weren't for Paperclip, I'd think that Anarch's core set breakers were anomolies and that they're actually supposed to only have good AIs.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 02:12

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Static Equilibrium posted:

edit: for the record, imo the mistakes in core are
desperado

encourages running, is fine.

Static Equilibrium posted:

parasite

MWL influence hit makes it fine

Static Equilibrium posted:

account siphon

Fine when not combined with all Anarch's recursion

Static Equilibrium posted:

yog

absolutely a terrible card and invalidates literally a third of all Code Gates printed

Static Equilibrium posted:

breaking news,

is fine, runners should not be immune to tagging, EoI is the issue

Static Equilibrium posted:

astro (kinda fixed via functional errata??),

is fine as 1/deck

Static Equilibrium posted:

noise ()

Noise is terrible

Static Equilibrium posted:

possibly the overly efficient ids (kate/etf)

both IDs are too good

# ? Dec 8, 2016 02:15

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

and yet ~~Sentry~~MIMIC gently caress is one of the most played/imported Killers in the game...

Yeah and Yog is one of the best decoders despite that being ostensibly a Shaper thing. No reason for FFG to repeat the mistake though.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 09:50

AgentF: May 11, 2009

So I went to a small (10 person) draft tournament last weekend and ended up winning it! I took away a 3-of for the full-bleed world champs NAPD Contract and a custom Astroscript token that one of the Adelaide crew made with his laser cutter. We played to three rounds, with 4 of us tied for 1st after round 2. Luckily I swept round 3 and nobody else did, so that handed me the tournament although it could have easily to one of the other players. Indeed the player I faced in round 3 had swept me at the previous tournament. As it was, my cards came out just right and the last round win secured 1st.

I had drafted Jinteki RP and Kit and after taking care of economy, ICE, breakers, etc, I found that a lot of the best cards for my chosen IDs were just flowing through to me. So I ended up with an RP deck with 3 sundews, lots of other drip econ, Nisei Mk II, a remaining agenda suite of 3/2s, taxing and spiky ICE, and a Biotic Labor to close it out. My Kit deck had Gordian Blade, Corroder, Mopus, like 4 program tutors, and a whole heap of dirty tricks including Tinkering, Paintbrush, Vamp, Wanton Destruction, Inside Job, DDoS. In all honesty the decks I built were almost as strong as constructed decks, due to all the amazingly suitable cards that I was getting that nobody else wanted. The minimum size for Corp decks is 30 but I pushed my RP deck up to 39 cards (16 agenda points) because I felt that, as glacier, I�d need the extra time for my games. I think this turned out to be a good call. My Kit on the other hand was aggressively cut down to 30 cards exactly and in most games I had Magnum Opus and Gordian Blade out and installed by turn 2. I had a Femme for Sentries but I never installed it, instead using tricks and Tinkering to deal with any Sentries that came up.

I ended up going 5-1 in the tourney, with Kit consistently closing out games with remote sniping and RDI, and my RP usually scoring Nisei and then 3/2s behind simple gearchecks. I dropped my 2nd game with RP against a Sunny who had a full breaker suite out early and crazy money was hitting R&D through a Tollbooth in order to snatch the winning agendas.

Highlights of the tourney:

Having ungodly money in my third Corp game with three Sundews ticking down. One was trashed but I reached maybe 25 credits at my height, which is huge for a draft game. I had no problem paying to Biotic out the final 3/2 to secure the win.
Sniping remotes with Kit, using increasingly dirty tricks. I would run a remote and use Gordian to break whatever single ICE was defending it. My opponents would then double-ICE the remote and I would suppress the outer ICE with DDoS. After that they would try again once DDoS was spent and I would Tinkering the inner ICE. Keeping Kit out of a server can be a tall order.
In my first Corp game my opponent decided to check my face-downs in Archives and ran on click 4. Unfortunately for him he had no Killer so when I rezzed an Ichi 1.0 on that server it wiped his rig, trashing an Inti and Refractor. Recursion is relatively rare in Draft so I was then able to close the game at my leisure by scoring out behind an Enigma.
My first Runner game involved a fairly new player IAA a card in a server I had easily got into the previous turn. I focused on building my rig rather than running this obvious trap but the card turned out to be a Utopia Fragment. Truly excellent bluffing from a new player.
My 3rd round opponent had made what was easily the best play of the tournament in the previous round. Playing a Razor Tree deck the game was called to time in his opponent�s turn, with his opponent on 5 AP vs his 4. He has one more turn in order to get at least an extra point, so he considers his options for a while, considers the board state and then begins his turn. He spends a first click I think on econ, maybe a Beanstalk, and then for click two he plays An Offer You Can�t Refuse and nominates a HQ with two unknown ICE. The runner spends ages vacillating between deciding to run or not; to run means facing two unknown ICE with 0 credits in his bank and 3 cards in HQ and then committing to an access, to refuse means handing over an agenda point and giving up on the win. Eventually the runner decides that it's a bluff and agrees to the run. He approaches the first ICE which isn�t rezzed. He approaches the second ICE and the Corp pays to rez a Merlin, and reveals a second Merlin from his hand, securing the flatline. Not only the best play of the tourney, but also the best play of AOYCR I�ve seen and an excellent use of the Grail that was floating around for much of the drafting.

All in all I had a fantastic time, and can�t recommend draft tourneys highly enough. You basically get to play two fun games in a row, as drafting is itself a very fun, strategic and highly social activity (I had fun talking poo poo to the adjacent Blue Sun player saying that I was going to deny all his Oversight AIs). Netdecks don�t really exist in this format, as you have to build your decks with the cards that you got, so the game rewards deck-building basics and creativity rather than copying decks from the Internet and �customising� them with small meta-based tweaks. The end result is that everyone has relatively rubbishy decks that end up matched fairly well against each other, and you get to see rarely-used cards played that otherwise would never get their chance to shine.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 11:40

Relyssa: Jul 29, 2012

While playtesting my runner deck on Jinteki last night I had a game against Blue Sun where I came back from 0-6 to win it. That was harrowing.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 15:21

Tevery Best: Oct 11, 2013; Hewlo Furriend

To be frank, even though I might be the biggest HB fan in history I still think if you take out EtF then purple will lose virtually all competitive relevance.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 17:51

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

I think a good chunk of that is that HB is the glacier, go-tall faction, and that's a scrupulously fair style of play. They've got strong ICE, they have some good assets like the various Campaigns to stick in your remote for clickless econ, a solid defensive upgrade in Ash, and a solid agenda suite. That's a well-defined strength! Unfortunately, meta trends really haven't favored that style of play. Right now if HB isn't able to cover their centrals early, the runner's going to drop Temujin on whatever isn't protected and build up a huge credit lead, and ICE alone doesn't do enough to tax them--you really need tags and traces to accomplish that. Or they'll run up against Blackmail spam which just invalidates ICE completely. And last cycle was all about asset spam, which is kind of the opposite of HB.

A bunch of HB identities just don't really reinforce the glacier plan that well, either. EtF does a good job of it, so it's all that gets played. Otherwise you're looking at things like Stronger Together or AoT which are very specific, or the Foundry, which isn't the kind of advantage you really need. It's just... not great.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 18:07

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

quote:

I think a good chunk of that is that HB is the glacier, go-tall faction, and that's a scrupulously fair style of play.

It's also now the go-to FA faction because it's the only one with 6 3/2s available and it has FA tools in the form of Jeeves, Efficiency Committee and Biotic Labour. Yet ETF is still the preferred ID when you play HB FA, because ETF's strength is both its raw power and its flexibility. The value of the ID tends towards a credit a turn (even higher with AAL and Architect and anything else that lets you install on the Runner's turn). And you get that boost for doing stuff that almost any deck with almost any game plan is going to be doing anyway, namely installing cards. It's not specifically a glacier ID, though it's really good for glacier, and it's not specifically an FA ID, though it's really good for FA, and it's not even a horizontal ID (though in a word where HB had more spammable assets it would be a very good horizontal ID too).

Unrelated question: I'm playing New Angeles Sol. Predictive Algorithm is active. There are 3 agendas in Archives and the runner has 2 credits. Can the runner steal all three agendas (because you access all cards in Archives at once, thus there's no time for Sol's ID ability to replay the Current between steals) or not (because Predictive Algorithm isn't trashed until the first agenda is stolen, and you access all agendas at once?). I want to say that yes, the Runner can do that, because the current is trashed as soon as one agenda is stolen, not accessed, and there are three separate instances of stealing. But I'm not sure!

Zephro fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 19:16

Yithian: Jun 19, 2005

FAQ posted:

When accessing cards in Archives, the Runner turns all cards faceup in Archives before accessing them. Then he or she accesses and resolves individual cards one by one, in any order he or she wants.

Sol would be able to play Predictive Algorithm from archives after the runner steals the first agenda since cards are accessed one at a time.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 19:25

fomo sacer: Feb 14, 2007

You don't access cards in archives (or anywhere) simultaneously, you access them one at a time in a sequence chosen by the runner.

the rulebook posted:

Accessing Multiple Cards
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one at a time in any order he likes. For example, the Runner may access a card from HQ, then an upgrade installed in the root of HQ, and then another card from HQ, if he has the ability to do so.
When accessing multiple cards from R&D, the Runner must draw them in order from the top of the deck, and must return any cards not scored or trashed in reverse order, so as to preserve their positions in R&D.
e Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card. If the Runner scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access more cards.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 19:40

Zephro: Nov 23, 2000; I suppose I could part with one and still be feared...

Yithian posted:

Sol would be able to play Predictive Algorithm from archives after the runner steals the first agenda since cards are accessed one at a time.

Ah, OK. So I was wrong. Thanks

# ? Dec 8, 2016 19:55

ninjaiguana: Aug 1, 2009; Holy shit! I have a tail?!

So Adjusted Matrix...does the breaker it's hosted on have to boost strength to equal the ICE's strength to use its ability? Because it would seem the answer is yes from the rules as they stand, and that's not great. I guess you're saying 'I can break ICE this breaker normally couldn't interact with by using clicks, but I still have to pump', but clicks are really precious. Five to install and then needing to match strength as well seems kind of meh.

Also 'you can spend <click> to break subroutines' is terrible wording. It should be "Host icebreaker gains '<click>: break ice subroutine'". The way it's written it implies you can spent one click to break an undefined number of subs during an encounter.

ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 20:45

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

ninjaiguana posted:

So Adjusted Matrix...does the breaker it's hosted on have to boost strength to equal the ICE's strength to use its ability? Because it would seem the answer is yes from the rules as they stand, and that's not great. I guess you're saying 'I can break ICE this breaker normally couldn't interact with by using clicks, but I still have to pump', but clicks are really precious. Five to install and then needing to match strength as well seems kind of meh.

Also 'you can spend <click> to break subroutines' is terrible wording. It should be "Host icebreaker gains '<click>: break ice subroutine'". The way it's written it implies you can spent one click to break an undefined number of subs during an encounter.

Your wording would require you to boost strength, though.

The point of Adjusted Matrix is it basically makes all their ICE into Bioroids.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 20:58

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

ninjaiguana posted:

Also 'you can spend <click> to break subroutines' is terrible wording. It should be "Host icebreaker gains '<click>: break ice subroutine'". The way it's written it implies you can spent one click to break an undefined number of subs during an encounter.

Clicks can't be spent to activate abilities mid-run, though. Your wording is impossible.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:12

ZorajitZorajit: Sep 15, 2013; No static at all...

ninjaiguana posted:

So Adjusted Matrix...does the breaker it's hosted on have to boost strength to equal the ICE's strength to use its ability? Because it would seem the answer is yes from the rules as they stand, and that's not great. I guess you're saying 'I can break ICE this breaker normally couldn't interact with by using clicks, but I still have to pump', but clicks are really precious. Five to install and then needing to match strength as well seems kind of meh.

Also 'you can spend <click> to break subroutines' is terrible wording. It should be "Host icebreaker gains '<click>: break ice subroutine'". The way it's written it implies you can spent one click to break an undefined number of subs during an encounter.

Adjusted Matrix is a shocking failure of templating and will hopefully either be changed before release, or will need an immediate errata and clarification if the previewed text is at the printer. But I'll do what I can to parse it.

Does the modded breaker need strength equal to the encountered ICE?
Probably. Icebreakers cannot interact with ICE if they do not have at least equal strength. For example, Wyrm cannot lower ICE strength until it has first matched it. However, cards that are not icebreakers don't have strength and therefore don't need to. So, if Adjusted Matrix itself is used for the other ability, then possibly it does not.

How does the subroutine-breaking ability work?
I have no idea. Or, rather, I have about four. First, a clarification, abilities that cost [Click] can't be used during a run. So, "[Click]: Break ice subroutine" doesn't work. Presumably however, "Lose [Click]: Break ice subroutine" would (and it has previously been clarified that you cannot voluntarily 'lose' something you don't have.)

Another proposal is that Adjusted Matrix allows you to spend [Click] to use the modified breaker's subroutine-breaking ability to break subroutines on any type of ice, as is standard on AI breakers. This is VERY complicated to template, but might have been better rules-text as "When you encounter a piece of ice you may spend [Click]. If you do, you may break ice subroutines with this icebreaker as though they could be broken by this icebreaker." E.G. Corroder has "1c: Break Barrier subroutine" but with Adjusted Matrix, you encounter a code gate, spend click and then your Corroder functionally has "1c: Break ice subroutine" for that encounter.

A final idea is that Adjusted Matrix confers something like "Lose [Click]: Break any number of ice subroutines" Which seems wildly overpowered, especially if it doesn't have to match strength so presumably can't be correct.

Why???
Because FFG's playtesters, the Future Future League are volunteers with little motivation, half a dozen games to playtest, and no extraordinary insight into the complexities of them. And because sometimes people forget the very important reason that Card Games cards aren't written in normal prose -- because they are actually add-ons to very detailed rules.

So, in conclusion, Damon, FFG, I will happily template all of your cards for you. I will sign any NDA and agree to compete in no events higher than a GNK for as long as I have done so. My price for this is (1) order of crab rangoon from my favorite Thai place each quarter. Please, please, stop editing your cards with a Markov bot.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:15

Baron Fuzzlewhack: Sep 22, 2010; ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE

It seems pretty clear to me, perhaps more by omission than anything. For example, sticking Adjusted Matrix on Corroder:

Corroder gains AI as a subtype. Corroder then gains the equivalent of "1c: break ICE subroutine" but with clicks instead (substituting the specific wording "you may spend clicks..." as Click: Blah Blah doesn't work), which applies to any ICE subtype as the wording on the card does not specify a subtype nor does it reference the types listed on the card on which it is installed.

More simply put, Corroder becomes:

Program: Icebreaker - Fracter - AI
1c: Break one Barrier subroutine
1c: +1 strength
You may spend 1 Click to break 1 ICE (of any type) subroutine

All the normal rules apply for icebreakers interacting with ICE as the card specifies "during encounters with pieces of ICE".

Baron Fuzzlewhack fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:34

ninjaiguana: Aug 1, 2009; Holy shit! I have a tail?!

Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:

It seems pretty clear to me, perhaps more by omission than anything. For example, sticking Adjusted Matrix on Corroder:

Corroder gains AI as a subtype. Corroder then gains the equivalent of "1c: break ICE subroutine" but with clicks instead (substituting the specific wording "you may spend clicks..." as Click: Blah Blah doesn't work), which applies to any ICE subtype as the wording on the card does not specify a subtype nor does it reference the types listed on the card on which it is installed.

More simply put, Corroder becomes:

Program: Icebreaker - Fracter - AI
1c: Break one Barrier subroutine
1c: +1 strength
You may spend 1 Click to break 1 ICE (of any type) subroutine

All the normal rules apply for icebreakers interacting with ICE as the card specifies "during encounters with pieces of ICE".

Yeah, that's what I think they intended (from what Zorajit's saying it would probably need to say 'you may lose 1 Click to break 1 ICE subroutine', but otherwise checks out) and would mean that yes, you do need to boost the breaker to use the new ability it has...but it ain't what they wrote. I absolutely could be wrong about what they intended, but whatever it was, right now they've previewed a sloppy mess of a card.

ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:42

Baron Fuzzlewhack: Sep 22, 2010; ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE

The one part that is absolutely clear from the wording on Adjusted Matrix is that the icebreaker card to which it's attached gains the wording, "during encounters with pieces of ICE." Given the rules we have about icebreakers interacting with ICE during an encounter, the icebreaker still must match the strength of the ICE being encountered in order to interact with it, whether through spending credits or clicks.

The rest of it probably does need to be clarified.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:55

ZorajitZorajit: Sep 15, 2013; No static at all...

ninjaiguana posted:

Yeah, that's what I think they intended (from what Zorajit's saying it would probably need to say 'you may lose 1 Click to break 1 ICE subroutine', but otherwise checks out) and would mean that yes, you do need to boost the breaker to use the new ability it has...but it ain't what they wrote. I absolutely could be wrong about what they intended, but whatever it was, right now they've previewed a sloppy mess of a card.

For the purpose of being explicit about this, if it had been worded "...lose 1 click to break 1 ice subroutine" then it would only allow you to break a single sub, and may not be able to use that ability more than once. 1.0 Bioroids use the formatting "...may spend [Click] to break any subroutine..." which is a sort of conditionality of each subroutine. As written, Adjusted Matrix says "you spend [Click] to break subroutines" which is notable because it definitely says subroutines, plural. Even if it had said "may spend X [Click]s to break X subs..." then we would have a better idea of what the intention was here.

EDIT:
For posterity, here is how I would have templated the card. Admittedly, I'm deriving a new term here, but I think it's the best implementation of what I *think* this lasgna of a card does.

code:

Adjusted Matrix -- 5c
Hardware: Mod
Install Adjusted Matrix on an [b]icebreaker[/b] as a mod.
Modded icebreaker is an [b]AI[/b] in addition to its other types and has 
"Spend [click]: Break ice subroutine"
Shaper -- 2 inf

ZorajitZorajit fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Dec 8, 2016

# ? Dec 8, 2016 21:56

Baron Fuzzlewhack: Sep 22, 2010; ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE

I think their [Click] symbol is suffering from a sheep/sheep singular/plural issue here. "You may spend Clicks to break subroutines" still wouldn't be perfect but is probably the intention here.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:01

CirclMastr: Jul 4, 2010

What they intended would probably require some stupid wording and nested quotation marks.

Adjusted Matrix posted:

Install Adjusted Matrix on an icebreaker. Host icebreaker gains AI and "When you encounter a piece of ice, it gains, 'The Runner may spend [click] to break any subroutine on this ice.'"

This would at least mostly follow the template on bioroid ice. But instead they went with the worst possible ambiguity of something that might break any number of subroutines for one click and might still need to be pumped.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:05

CirclMastr: Jul 4, 2010

Meanwhile, who's going to be the first one to build the janky "score Government Takeover from hand" deck that gets 9 advancement counters on various ice, then Subcontracts a Lateral Growth (installing Takeover) and Red Planet Couriers?

Maybe it'll be a new take on Hot Tub Time Machine, with the ice and RPC instead of Mumbad Construction Co.?

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:16

fomo sacer: Feb 14, 2007

CirclMastr posted:

Meanwhile, who's going to be the first one to build the janky "score Government Takeover from hand" deck that gets 9 advancement counters on various ice, then Subcontracts a Lateral Growth (installing Takeover) and Red Planet Couriers?

Maybe it'll be a new take on Hot Tub Time Machine, with the ice and RPC instead of Mumbad Construction Co.?

Finally, a use for pad factory.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:23

MCPeePants: Feb 25, 2013

CirclMastr posted:

Meanwhile, who's going to be the first one to build the janky "score Government Takeover from hand" deck that gets 9 advancement counters on various ice, then Subcontracts a Lateral Growth (installing Takeover) and Red Planet Couriers?

Maybe it'll be a new take on Hot Tub Time Machine, with the ice and RPC instead of Mumbad Construction Co.?

Simpler to just Biotic for the install, Subcontract needing a tag is finicky. Or Accelerated Shutdown combo.

Anyway, it makes Gov Takeover more appealing which is nice, since it frees up previous deck space.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:32

Tevery Best: Oct 11, 2013; Hewlo Furriend

Add Glenn Station to store the Takeover until you need it and Exchange of Information just in case

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:36

berenzen: Jan 23, 2012

I can't wait to leela patel bounce a 9-advanced card to hand just to laugh at people's hubris.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:52

Yithian: Jun 19, 2005

If you're playing Weyland and you have a tag on the runner, you have better things to do than Exchange of Information.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:53

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# ? May 17, 2024 04:18

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

You're also already spending a shitload of influence on Biotics, you really don't have the space to fit in a tagging suite.

# ? Dec 8, 2016 22:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > NetRunner: More Unapproachable than a rezzed Curtain Wall

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