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Fangz posted:A lot of the goblin units have skulk. Seems a good play would be to surround the elves and suddenly attack. Yeah, use your vanguard deployment as well for you Wolf Riders to hit them quick and prioritise fast moving chariots over trolls for bashiness. Elves have very low armour so all your crappy gobbo archers come into play as well. e:Boar Boy big 'uns would munch their cav if they can catch them, but maybe regular boar boys would be more survivable with their shields. NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 01:28
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Yeah, use your vanguard deployment as well for you Wolf Riders to hit them quick and prioritise fast moving chariots over trolls for bashiness. Elves have very low armour so all your crappy gobbo archers come into play as well. boar boys are slower than regular cav, there's no way you'd catch the Elves
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Dec 8, 2016 01:40
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Lots of Goblin archers seem like the ideal choice for a core force against Wood Elves for the Greenskins, given the armor situation and the ridiculous volume of fire they can provide. Night Goblins with their poison should also let Greenskin cavalry catch their melee cavalry, because let's face it, the ranged cavalry will die to the archer fire. Of course, this is all theory crafting and may be proven completely wrong tomorrow.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:43
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Interesting to see how much they buffed chariots. That might also be a good counter - small unit size might make them good at avoiding massed missile fire, and dodge away from treemen.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:51
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unwantedplatypus posted:Goblins with silver shields + wolf riders may be helpful Yeah, a Night Goblin Big Boss seems like he'd have the answers. Wolf riders with poisoned weapons from NGBB are going to be obnoxious and sticky as gently caress.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:10
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Panfilo posted:Note that right now some trade buildings are still worth it - gems cough up a lot of money and beer gives growth and public order. Has anyone actually done the math on the value of trade buildings? I haven't, but I'm surprised by how dim a view of them the thread has. Several of them (gems, gold, furs, ?) give decent->awesome income in addition to the resources, and a lot of them give you other stuff: public order, growth, or unit exp. Trade treaty income isn't huge, but it's easier to get than the other treaties and improves your relationships, making it easier to ally/confederate, etc. I already build the cash building in almost every settlement anyways, I'm just wondering if I've been totally wasting my time by also building the resource buildings in every city that can.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:28
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ZearothK posted:Lots of Goblin archers seem like the ideal choice for a core force against Wood Elves for the Greenskins, given the armor situation and the ridiculous volume of fire they can provide. Night Goblins with their poison should also let Greenskin cavalry catch their melee cavalry, because let's face it, the ranged cavalry will die to the archer fire. How are massed goblin archers going to outfire massed elf archers that have better range and can move and shoot?
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Dec 8, 2016 02:29
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I think a lot of people look down on trade as it's so much weaker than in Shogun II, and other earlier titles, where it could easily be your main source of income. Probably the most difficult thing about Realm Divide in S2 was the loss of trading partners, and the need to set up a big internal economy before you started the final push.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:34
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Avasculous posted:Has anyone actually done the math on the value of trade buildings? The ones that are good for dwarves: -Gold (pure income) -Gems (pays the same as toolmaker+the highest trade value) -Beer (the building gives beer, growth AND public order, it's like 3 buildings in one. And beer is the 2nd most valuable trade good.) I don't think trade is implemented well. Theres a few upgrades that boost tariff income but that's like +5% onto 120ish gold per trading partner, hardly anything. Panfilo fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 02:35
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Are the mechanics by which trade routes are calculated actually written down or explained anywhere
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Dec 8, 2016 02:39
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Also if you're a race with access to a good port near your capital, access to trade resources, and plentiful of likely trading partners (basically, empire or dwarfs), trade is really good, especially if you take the time to work on diplomatic relations and ensure that you "discover" all your possible trading partners by using agents. Otherwise, not so good!
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Dec 8, 2016 02:42
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Avasculous posted:I already build the cash building in almost every settlement anyways, I'm just wondering if I've been totally wasting my time by also building the resource buildings in every city that can. The first levels pay themselves off in a reasonable timeframe, anything beyond that is not generally worth it imo, unless maybe if you're trading with a whole bunch of factions.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:44
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sassassin posted:How are massed goblin archers going to outfire massed elf archers that have better range and can move and shoot? How the gently caress is that even a question? The answer is: WAAAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!!
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Dec 8, 2016 02:44
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sassassin posted:How are massed goblin archers going to outfire massed elf archers that have better range and can move and shoot? There is 160 Goblin Archers per unit, they are cheaper and the Wood Elves have poo poo all for armor. Also the Mushroom Cloud spell Goblin Shamans get that makes units blind in an area. ZearothK fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 02:55
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Yeah wood elves don't seem like they have much sustain at all. I mean we'll see. Give me the elves, I want the elves
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Dec 8, 2016 03:00
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terrorist ambulance posted:Are the mechanics by which trade routes are calculated actually written down or explained anywhere You need a land route through your territory to theirs or a port-to-port connection with trade partners, and the more trade goods you produce the more you make from trade agreements. Realistically it's better to build things that give you straight income or growth than to go to the hassle of setting up trade.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:02
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Fairly frequently you don't need to make the choice though. Also the first tier of trade pays itself off faster than the second tier of income building typically, even without trade.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:06
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RentACop posted:Yeah wood elves don't seem like they have much sustain at all. I mean we'll see. Give me the elves, I want the elves Who needs hp's when you have arrows. The arrows even come in different flavors, just in case you were getting bored of one type. Also a tree dragon and treebeard. I'm pumped for wood elves.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:52
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I wonder how many nonelves confuse Orion for a beastman
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Dec 8, 2016 04:07
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I'm curious to see if WElves have a decent counter to Brettonia. When the enemy army has that much cavalry, it kinda limits your movement options; running and shooting only works when you've got somewhere to run to.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:10
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SickZip posted:Mousillion and Middenland both look like their being geared up to become full playable factions in the near future. They appear as factions in custom battle now, the Red Duke has a unique model, and they've changed Middenlands roster (nothing added yet but they've removed all the Sigmar units) I really hope we get the war wagon for the empire factions if they do another legendary lord DLC.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:34
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I want to see a Marienburg faction DLC just so we can get this ridiculous thing:
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Dec 8, 2016 04:37
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I'm curious to see if WElves have a decent counter to Brettonia. When the enemy army has that much cavalry, it kinda limits your movement options; running and shooting only works when you've got somewhere to run to. Treekin and Treemen have charge defence against large foes. Also the Glade Guard are elite AP spearmen.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:41
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I'm curious to see if WElves have a decent counter to Brettonia. When the enemy army has that much cavalry, it kinda limits your movement options; running and shooting only works when you've got somewhere to run to. The Wood Elf air force looks strong enough to take down the Bretonnian Flying Circus and the core Wood Elf infantry are roughly equivalent to elite halberdiers, so they have tools to deal with cav spam. Cav spam will obliterate kiting archer piles but it's not like the army can't deal with it if they build for it.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:09
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wiegieman posted:You need a land route through your territory to theirs or a port-to-port connection with trade partners, and the more trade goods you produce the more you make from trade agreements. Realistically it's better to build things that give you straight income or growth than to go to the hassle of setting up trade. I'm wondering if the restrictions regarding trade pathing make it harder to make decent amount of money. If it weren't so strict then you could potentially get more trading partners.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:28
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In the hypothetical Settra campaign, I like to think that he would have to conquer the whole world. Conquer, mind, not destroy. In addition the only diplomacy options would be vassalization, nothing else. Settra does not kneel, etc.
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Dec 8, 2016 07:57
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ok, what the hell is up with the help? It launches this thing and.. its pretty funny actually why on earth isn't it in the game? Different team I guess
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Dec 8, 2016 08:51
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Kanos posted:I've tried endlessly to make trade-based economies work and it's usually a huge investment of money, effort, and time for minimal returns as opposed to not giving a poo poo about all that crap at all and just spamming whatever your faction's income building is everywhere instead of actually building trade resource buildings. Having your income pegged to the whim of the flighty AI is a terrible idea and I'm basically positive that any increased profit you might make from trade over tinker shops is immediately devoured by all the cash you'll need to spend continually bribing people to not hate you because you own more territory than a van down by the river. At the end of my legendary Empire run I was making as much money from trade than taxes, and I held most of the Empire territories. I was just playing to the long victory condition so I didn't invade Bretonnia or anywhere else and I had a bunch of allies.
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Dec 8, 2016 09:50
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Tony Montana posted:ok, what the hell is up with the help? It launches this thing and.. its pretty funny actually They've had this web-based thing for a few games I think. It sucks and I never use it.
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Dec 8, 2016 09:53
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Is there any mod that tells me the auto-resolve results of battles I fought myself?
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Dec 8, 2016 09:56
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ZearothK posted:There is 160 Goblin Archers per unit, they are cheaper and the Wood Elves have poo poo all for armor. Is Goblin armour that great? Wood Elves will whittle that 160 down before gobbos get in range. Trying to outshoot a by-design mobile shooting army is a strange approach imo (unless we're talking artillery). And Wood Elves get magic, too.
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Dec 8, 2016 10:51
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Do wood elves shoot when they are running as well as when they are walking?
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Dec 8, 2016 10:53
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sassassin posted:Is Goblin armour that great? Wood Elves will whittle that 160 down before gobbos get in range. Trying to outshoot a by-design mobile shooting army is a strange approach imo (unless we're talking artillery). Goblin archers are the Warhammer Fantasy equivalent of dakka dakka dakka.
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Dec 8, 2016 11:02
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sassassin posted:Is Goblin armour that great? Their armour and health are decent by archer standards and the unit is very cheap. Only the elite Wood Elf units can fire while retreating.
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Dec 8, 2016 11:04
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I've never considered gobbo archers as anything but a minor nuisance but then I've only played with Dwarfs to date.
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Dec 8, 2016 11:17
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Gobbo archers will chew through lighter infantry, unshielded empire troops, other greenskins. But even the suggestions of melee makes them bail hard so, good situation-ally.
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Dec 8, 2016 12:28
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sassassin posted:I've never considered gobbo archers as anything but a minor nuisance but then I've only played with Dwarfs to date. Throughout my Skarsnik campaign I was constantly bringing 3 goblin archers (either regular and night). Weight of fire proved to be vital, especially in the end after I had backstabbed Grimgor and he kept producing only giants. Turns out 3 goblin archers can wittle down a giant in a decent amount of time. I also typically combine this with some form of cavalry to harass the opposing teams ranged units. As for Wood Elves, goblin heavy armies seem like a good idea to drown them in bodies and high speed units.
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Dec 8, 2016 12:30
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Hernia The Hunter posted:Gobbo archers will chew through lighter infantry, unshielded empire troops, other greenskins. But even the suggestions of melee makes them bail hard so, good situation-ally.  If somebody got close enough to bust out the fanatics, the poor little archers were dead anyway.
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Dec 8, 2016 12:32
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sassassin posted:Is Goblin armour that great? Wood Elves will whittle that 160 down before gobbos get in range. Trying to outshoot a by-design mobile shooting army is a strange approach imo (unless we're talking artillery). Knowing CA's ability to make their intended balance come out in the mechanics wood elves will turn out to be the weakest shooting faction in the game but with the toughest infantry. e: like when the game launched and Empire had the strongest infantry and strongest monsters with pretty crappy ranged.
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Dec 8, 2016 12:33
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nopantsjack posted:Knowing CA's ability to make their intended balance come out in the mechanics wood elves will turn out to be the weakest shooting faction in the game but with the toughest infantry. How did the empire have the strongest infantry? I mean, I know that steam tanks and demigryphs are/were totally awesome, but how did they have the best infantry? I don't think greatswords were ever THAT good. Not bad by any means but I doubt they were ever as good as black orcs or Ironbreakers. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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